Should the Shiek and Zelda boards be merged?

[MK26]

In Melee, Sheik's Down-B was not a very viable move. Now it is. In Melee, nobody (disclaimer: may be exaggeration) dual-mained. Now people do. So, why do we have two separate boards for two characters that can, should be, and are played together as one?

And it would remove several double threads, such as this one: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210524

So...good idea?

EDIT: dammit i was going for 2 consecutive thread numbers. Dam u cartoonwolf and your advertising of another site

 

[Villi]

Meh, merging the boards wouldn't be pertinent to the players who main solo Zelda and solo Sheik(with maybe Zelda). As a dual main, I enjoy the change of atmosphere.

 

[-Mars-]

No, some people that dual main only use Sheik for certain matchups and Zelda for certain matchups.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm a Zelda/Sheik main and I, personally, just switch between the two boards spending most of my time on zelda.

I'm not opposed to a 3rd board that is Zelda/Sheik, but it'd get WAY too cluttered if you just merged the two existing ones.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

lol, why are the pokemon trainer boards even merged???? Some sheik users turn into zelda for a little more power. I think the boards should be merged but seperated within each other like Zelda boards, and the page goes to zelda and sheik. Same boards, different group.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I think there should be an option to display both forums on the same screen.

That way sheik mains see sheik, zeldas see zelda, and dual-ers see both.

Most topics focus on one, but for the few that discuss both, imo, it would be useful. Probably never gonna happen though.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

lol, why are the pokemon trainer boards even merged???? Some sheik users turn into zelda for a little more power. I think the boards should be merged but seperated within each other like Zelda boards, and the page goes to zelda and sheik. Same boards, different group.

hmm i think ur on to something there, yeah if there was a sheik and zelda only subtopic within a sheik/zelda topic then threads about both could still be together

it does kinda discourage mixing the way its set up now

 

[Tristan_win]

Nah,

Zelda only needed in a few fights everything else Sheik can either go all the way expect in a few fights where it's actually better to use Zelda for the whole fight.

..Like all three of them.

Pokamon Trainer
Ice climbers
Kirby

 

[demodemo]

no

it would be too cluttered. plus it is an option to transform, not a necessity like PT

 

[PK-ow!]

Guys, think about this.

Would a forum for "playing with Ganon's utilt, Jab, down and side specials, bair, nair, and fair, dash attack, and Fsmash and Dsmash" make any sense, even if complemented with "Ganon's dtilt, ftilt, Usmash, Paunch and Jump special, grab and throws, uair, and dair" somewhere else in Character Discussion?

The fact is, both characters are a part of the other. People who decide beforehand that they're going to "solo main Sheik" are gimping themselves; they're just completely ignoring the whole range of options opened up if they allow themselves to press B-down once during a match.

If experimentation and gameplay proves that certain kinds of play between the two forms are inferior to others, then discussion can reasonably proceed to ignore talk of such things. If that talk becomes "It's strictly better to play as solo Sheik or solo Zelda than any combination option", then that's where that forum will go. But before that, it just doesn't make sense.
This answers the 'clutter' objection, which is barely an objection anyway. If the characters are treated as the same, you will narrow down what you talk about. Yes, you'll see a minimum doubling of 'basics'-type material - but Zelda/Sheik is just that complicated. If it's talk of Zelda-insular strategies and Sheik-insular strategies messing with the front page, look here: The Zelda-insular people should be seeing what the Sheik people can do, and that should be able to reveal 'hey, this thing we're doing with Zelda, would be better if we added Sheik in this way / is inferior to this Sheik thing over here' and that will merge discussions, reducing clutter (and accelerating metagame development).

Maybe if both forums were combined from the start, people would have been looking harder and better at ways to play a better Zelda/Sheik game.


Shielding from hypocrisy objection: My first go at Sheik showed I have a lot of uphill learning to do, probably some unlearning, before I can 'get' Sheik. When I can do something with her, I'll add her to my gameplay.
Except I'll always use the Zelda icon, because Sheik is the alter ego and not really a character. *nyaaaa*

 

[Zankoku]

There are certain matchups you would never actually want to transform for. Like, vs Wolf? Why would you go Zelda? And vs Ice Climbers? Absolutely no reason to transform into Sheik.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I think there should be an option to display both forums on the same screen.

That way sheik mains see sheik, zeldas see zelda, and dual-ers see both.

Can you not just use tabs? Are we really such a lazy generation?

..Like all three of them.

Tristan never misses a chance to spread the Shiek pride and hate on Zelda lol.

Just do what I or Sonic the Hedgehawg do, go to both, though Im an extreme Zelda lurker (partly because im 80% Shiek 20% Zelda).

So yeah, tabs guys, it's not that hard.

 

[rinoH]

eh i never use zelda so i wouldnt want it to merge

 

[Palpi]

Using zelda is great to utilize your great abilities but, since they are very different characters, merging the boards would be a big mess.

 

[PK-ow!]

There are certain matchups you would never actually want to transform for. Like, vs Wolf? Why would you go Zelda? And vs Ice Climbers? Absolutely no reason to transform into Sheik.

Yes, which is a fact that could be discussed in a hypothetical Zelda/Sheik forum.

I mean, it's not clearly the general case, else you'd have something more compelling than the mention of two characters.

Palpi, you're presupposing their distinctness. Yes, in-game mechanically, Zelda and Sheik are encapsulated character data, and if you look at them separately, they're very different.

But, this is not at all connected to the issue of if transformation strategies deserve a unified place on the boards. (As an aside: the difference of Zelda and Sheik would tend to be the main attraction of transformation strategies.)

 

[demodemo]

the threads would be so divided it would be better to have to have two boards. There will be threads completely about sheik, threads completely about zelda, and rarely any threads about them both. I'm not sure how the PT boards work really..

plus, PK-ow, you are saying us picking up sheik and not transforming is gimping ourselves right? yeah i guess, but didn't everyone decide they were going to gimp themselves a little bit when they decided not to main MK, Snake, or Dedede?

 

[Kinzer]

They seperate stuff, or put it all in one master thread, which explains why they have three seperate moveset threads for each Pokemon...

It gets cluttered up, I must admit, like in the matchup thread, it takes forEVER to talk about all the perspectives for each pokemon.

 

[Flamingo]

Um make a Sheik/Zelda board in addition to the Sheik board and the Zelda board please. It will be helpful to people like me. And I think I've discovered something that pertains to Sheik/Zelda playstyle, and I'd like to post it there.

 

[demodemo]

naw, making a separate board for a playing style is crazy. if a player decides to trasnform (which is probably in their best interest) they should take responsibility and visit both forums. I am pretty sure both of us have information about how each character compliments each other.

Anyway, discussing how to use transform does not really go any deeper than, "what move do i do at what % to knock them away for transform". which reminds me, somebody should do a detailed analysis on this.

 

[deepseadiva]

Imagine "transforming" as clicking over to the other character board.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Can you not just use tabs? Are we really such a lazy generation?

I do use tabs, but not everyone else does.

If there was an option to show both forums side byside (since the format takes up exactly half the screen anyway), then topics like this one would not need to be posted twice. Same thing goes for my Sheik/Zelda guide--in which there are two seperate discussions going on simultaneously which could benefit both Sheik and Zelda players.

Just as a note: I am completely against the merging of the two boards. All the clutter and chaos would just consume the entire forum.

I think showing the forums, AS AN OPTION, side by side (so as not to have duplicate threads, again, like this one) would be the only neat way around it. Still, though, we seem to be managing just fine the way it is, so why fix what's not broken?

 

[Tezmata]

To whoever was saying things about Zelda and Sheik just being different facets of the same character, it's a bit different from using only certain portions of another character's moveset. When you transform, you're subject to completely new rules of physics and you are giving up your abilities for new ones. It's not like saying "I'm not going main Fox but not use Blaster" because using his blaster doesn't prevent him from using other moves. When you transform, all of your moves change, along with your weight, speed, etc.

Zelda and Sheik are very different characters. Transform is the only thing they have in common. They need separate boards because they are not reliant upon each other.

 

[Squidster]

Making a new board IN ADDITION to the ones we have now is pointless.
Nothing that would be said there cannot be said here, and the ONLY things that would be discussed there are things like "when should we transform." We do not need an entire forum on a subject that can be discussed in a single thread.

Merging the two boards to CREATE this new board, is dumb.
90% of the discussions on these boards is what to do in certain situations, not what to do overall in a match. The reason things go deeper than “don’t get hit” is because there are specific strategies to do that. When playing sheik/Zelda, it’s 1 thing to know when to play which or how to utilize both effectively, but if you’re going to be successful at that you’ll have to know what to do when you are sheik.

What to do when you are sheik is a HUGE topic of discussion that deserves its own board. There is no specific situation in which you use sheik/Zelda to deal with an opponents actions… you are playing as one or the other, and must learn to use both effectively in order to win with both.

 

[slickmasterizzy]

meh i suggested this forever ago but people dont want to get better with their character i guess. they enjoy only understanding 1/2 of their characters potential then crying that shiek has no kill moves

 

[PK-ow!]

the threads would be so divided it would be better to have to have two boards. There will be threads completely about sheik, threads completely about zelda, and rarely any threads about them both. I'm not sure how the PT boards work really..

plus, PK-ow, you are saying us picking up sheik and not transforming is gimping ourselves right? yeah i guess, but didn't everyone decide they were going to gimp themselves a little bit when they decided not to main MK, Snake, or Dedede?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
Not that I believe eschewing MK, Snake, and Dedede is wrong, mind you.

Merging the two boards to CREATE this new board, is dumb.
90% of the discussions on these boards is what to do in certain situations, not what to do overall in a match. The reason things go deeper than “don’t get hit” is because there are specific strategies to do that. When playing sheik/Zelda, it’s 1 thing to know when to play which or how to utilize both effectively, but if you’re going to be successful at that you’ll have to know what to do when you are sheik.

This is a good point. But then how do you consider the situation "I have time and maybe Sheik will do better against this guy's style. How do I judge?"

The key is the transform time. If it was a second like in Melee, I think more people would agree that it's an open question how to transform in the middle of a stock based on situation. But the time makes it so limited, so yes I will agree that it is mostly about "Well if you know both characters well, the time to transform will just be apparent."

What to do when you are sheik is a HUGE topic of discussion that deserves its own board. There is no specific situation in which you use sheik/Zelda to deal with an opponents actions… you are playing as one or the other, and must learn to use both effectively in order to win with both.

This.

 

[Zankoku]

When you are using Sheik, you are using Sheik. When you are using Zelda, you are using Zelda. Using Down+B switches between two characters that have enough unique oddities about them that a board for each character during her time would be more fitting than having a lot of Zelda threads and a lot of Sheik threads all in one board.

 

[SinkingHigher]

When you are using Sheik, you are using Sheik. When you are using Zelda, you are using Zelda. Using Down+B switches between two characters that have enough unique oddities about them that a board for each character during her time would be more fitting than having a lot of Zelda threads and a lot of Sheik threads all in one board.

Aha!

So it is Down+B that needs it's own forum.

 

[Zankoku]

Nah, just have each board develop the metagame for their half of the coin, as well as figure out the ideal moments to flip.