Sigma Busters (Name Pending): Official Discussion Thread

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh since the backstory is being reworked, I decided to rework Levi as well, tell me how you think, expect a kit for Wynnie in the future on this very same post.

Spoiler: Levi's Kit

Name - Levi
Gender - Male
Species - Polarus Dracon
Design - Levi is a humanoid dragon, not unlike the builds of Fox and Falco. The Polarus Dracons are cyan, with several head spikes on their back, not unlike small icicles, with webbed hands and feet to give them a better grip on the ice. Levi has a long tail with a spike at the end and a thin, agile frame. His attire is mostly white, with a blue badge on his shoulder to indicate his status as a sheriff. He has an overtly refined appearance, befitting of his orderly persona.
Origin - Levi is one of the top law enforcement of the galaxy, an orderly person who cleans up crime in his sector with cold efficiency. He comes from the surface of Draden, a planet with an icy surface and molten cavernous core, and has crawled up from being a humble miner to a respected member of his community. Currently, he is up and coming for being the next chief of police in his sector, but to do so he is required to mentor a new sheriff to take his place, who is, unfortunately, the rather rambunctious Wynnie. Of course, this isn’t the only thing that will shatter his sense of organization, as a certain fiery plant will expose him to the dark underbelly of the system he helps maintain.
Archetype - Spacer
Gimmick - Tipper - Levi's prized blade, Frostpunk, has a tipper mechanic, meaning attacks that hit the sword's tip will be dealt extra damage. The parts where icy mist radiate indicate where the tipper is.
Intended Strengths -

• As a sword wielder, Levi has good range on his close-range tools.
• His Down Special, Frost Guard, is a powerful counter, allowing him extra survivability.
• Balanced stats, with good speed, weight, and agility.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Stats, while good, are nothing spectacular, so he doesn't excel at anything notable.
• A lack of a projectile makes him weak to zoners.
• His recovery is linear and somewhat predictable.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - A+
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - B
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Twin Slash - A duo of slashes are performed, one after another, icy mist trailing behind both. The first slash deals more damage, while the later slash deals more knockback.
Forward Tilt - Wide Slash - Levi reaches his arm out to perform a longer-ranged slash. It is an in-between of the two slashes of his jab, with solid damage and knockback at the tip, however, it has more end-lag.
Up Tilt - Ice Spire - A vertical thrust upwards, the icy misty Levi's sword produces are used as weak hits to push up into the stronger hit.
Down Tilt - Slippery Blade - A small thrust aimed at the opponent's knee; if the tip hits, there is a chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Backwards Slash - Levi turns around to perform a horizontal slash. His laggiest move, but his most powerful in terms of raw damage.
Dash Attack - Dashing Cutter - A fast slash is performed, with a stronger late hit to KO opponents, however, the move has high-end lag.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Ice Crash - Levi charges ice on his blade to hammer into the ground. If you fully charge this attack, the resulting ice blast can freeze opponents in place.
Up Charge - Triple Blade - Levi slashes upwards in a crescent shape. The more he charges the attack, the more slashes he performs, maxing out at three slashes.
Down Charge - Twin Froster - Levi slashes downwards at both sides, his weakest in terms of damage, but his safest and longest ranged Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Hurricane Cutter - His fastest aerial and core combo tool. Levi spins around like a buzzsaw, his sword slashing around him. A very quick and safe move, only held back by middling damage.
Forward Air - Jump Slash - Levi lunges downward and his sword hits from above. This move gives him a recovery mixup due to speedening his descent when used. This move can spike when hit in the middle of the attack.
Up Air - Waxing Crescent - Levi slashes in an upward crescent motion, the tipper launching foes upwards as a vertical kill move.
Down Air - Waning Crescent - The previous attack is performed downwards, and the tipper is now able to spike opponents.
Back Air - Quarter Slash - Slashing in an upward angle backwards, Levi can use this attack as a get-off-me tool due to its high knockback.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab - A jab with his knee, quite a quick jab that trades some power for increased speed.
Forward Throw - Dragon Kick - Levi kicks the opponent forward, launching them back. A solid through that setup combos at low percentages and KOs at high percentages.
Down Throw - Dragon Stamp - A simple kick to the ground, though the kick is strong enough to bury opponents for combos. In terms of raw damage, this is Levi’s weakest throw.
Back Throw - Cobalt Suplex - A suplex throw gets performed, launching the foe back, a solid kill throw.
Up Throw - Icicle Blade - Levi tosses the foe and launched them upward, dealing the least knockback of all his throws but is the easier to combo with.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Blurry Flurry - Levi charges his sword to perform several forward strikes, followed by a final stronger attack. The speed of these strikes makes this a potent weapon, though the end-lag of the final strike is a notable hindrance. When used in the air, this move becomes a singular horizontal strike that travels longer the more you charge, aiding in recovery.

• Neutral Hyper - Blue Blade - Canceling the charge, Levi instead performs a singular thrust forward while the blade is enwrapped in ice. If the tipper is hit, the opponent is launched while encased in ice. The attack has less recovery utility but lacks the charge needed to launch Levi forward, so its some give and take.

Side Special - Tempest Winds - Levi performs a crescent slash that launches a tempest of ice forward. This move charges over time passively, and at higher charges more icy wind is launched, freezing the opponent at full charge.

• Side Hyper - Tempest Slash - Levi unleashes a series of strikes above their head while rising into the air. This move can be directed to head in any direction, including downwards. The last hit deals considerably more knockback than the rest. This move trades its freezing capabilities for a strong recovery tool.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Levi gets hit, he instead deals 1.2x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses his midair momentum.

• Down Hyper - Freeze Counter - The counter now freezes the opponent in place in a block of ice, but the counter now only deals 1.1x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Cryo Slash - Levi slashes upwards with his ice-coated sword. This recovery move has a very strong vertical distance but very poor horizontal drift, though the fact it has invincibility on the first hits does make up for that somewhat.

• Up Hyper - Cryo Buster - A higher-damaging version of Cryo Slash that also leaps Levi at a more diagonal angle, making it a better recovery tool. Unlike base Cryo Slash, this is a strong single-hit attack rather than a multi-hit.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Vital Strike - Performing a crouching pose, Levi then slashes with a short-ranged but highly damaging strike that sends foes into a crumpled state. The high-end lag of this attack makes it highly risky to pull out, but it's no less potent of an attack.
Level 2 - Halberg - A spin-attack is performed, attacking both sides. While the attack is used, Levi spreads icy mist that instantly freezes opponents who get hit by the attack’s tipper.
Level 3 - Leviathan Blizzard - Levi’s longest ranged attack, he charges his blade, the ice shaping it into a leviathan, before he crashes the attack into the ground, dealing massive damage and knockback. One of the strongest attacks in terms of raw damage, but his laggiest as well.

Spoiler: Wynnie's Kit WIP

Name - Wynnie
Gender - Female
Species - Magmatic Dracon
Design - Like Levi, Wynnie is a humanoid dragon with a build similar to Fox and Falco. As a Magmatic Dracon, Wynnie has deep red skin and a pair of glowing red horns, with a long spiked tail. Her outfit is mainly black in color, and on her back is an axe that is the same size as her body. Despite her small frame she is quite strong, though the heavy axe she carries often has her in a hunched pose in battle, though without the axe she is taller than Levi. She wears a yellow badge on her shoulder, indicating that she is a sheriff in training.
Origin - Wynnie is an officer at training on her planet of Draden, a world with a fiery surface and molten core. She has potential for greatness, but she is also a bit of a klutz and total meathead, she does mean well though and has moments of brilliance when given the chance. Ironically, its this out-there personality of hers that makes her more critical of some of the systems put in place in the world, and her encounters with a certain flaming plant will definitely put her world upside down.
Archetype - Spacer/Bruiser
Gimmick - Gripper - Wynnie’s battle axe, Flameiron, has a very powerful head, but the rest of the axe is very weak, meaning she has more extreme hitboxes than Levi.
Intended Strengths -

• Wynnie has some of the highest raw damage in the game, meaning she can KO much earlier compared to other fighters.
• She has several moves with odd properties, confounding those used to more traditional fighters.
• Several moves can burn opponents, weakening the durability of shields.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Awkward stat distribution, with solid running stats, but poor air speed and traction.
• Lowest traction in the game, meaning she is poor at micro-movements.
• Odd attack style means she has a higher skill floor compared to other fighters.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - D-
Jump Height - C+
Air Acceleration - D
Fall Speed - B+
Weight - A-
Ground Moves:
Jab - Flame Hilt - A slice from her axe sends the foe downwards. For a jab, it has some launching power, but lacks the traditional combos jabs can bring.
Forward Tilt - Wide Chop - Wynnie swings her axe like a baseball bat, increasing her range compared to her jab but also the lag, with high end-lag if it misses.
Up Tilt - Eruption - Wynnie radiates fire as she crashes her axe down in a powerful swing. One of the slowest tilts in the game, but one of the highest in pure damage.
Down Tilt - Axe Kick - Wynnie tries to trip the opponent with her leg, the heel has a higher chance to trip then her shin.
Back Tilt - Whip Tail - Wynnie uses her spiked tail to whip from behind; unlike most tilts, this functions more like a jab, having a three hit combo that launches foes upwards in the final hit, which is good for setting up combos with her aerial. Despite being an odd move, it has great value for her kit.
Dash Attack - Axe Lariat - Wynnie spins with her axe to perform a lariat-like attack; her body is invincible during the animation, and the end of the attack changes based off if you hold the button when the attack ends. If you don't, she ends the attack with a final slice that sends the foe diagonally upwards, good for a get-off-me tool, but if you hold the button, she will crash the axe into the ground, dealing a powerful hit, but it's laggier as she clumsily tries to her axe on the ground.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Magma Dropper - Wynnie plunges her axe into the ground to create a burst of flames; the larger the charge, the bigger the flame; at full charge she can even burn the opponent, draining their Guts Meter.
Up Charge - Flame Spinner - Wynnie spins the axe over head like a flag twirler, dealing multiple hits of damage in the process.
Down Charge - Dancing Axe - Wynnie attacks, not with her axe, but with a breakdance motion using the hilt of her giant axe as support, her quickest Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Wild Top - Wynnie spins like a top, dealing damage on both sides, the edges of which have the strongest knockback. However, she is vulnerable everywhere else, so there is some risk. This attack does slow her descent, aiding in her recovery.
Forward Air - Meteor Chop - An axe swing with the capability to spike opponents downward. This is among her safest aerials start-up-wise, but it does have some lag.
Up Air - Sunrise - A move very similar to Cloud Up Air mechanically and visually, where Wynnie thrusts her axe upwards to launch opponents, a good lead into Eruption.
Down Air - Sunset - A massive slash downwards, a very laggy down air, but one with massive power.
Back Air - Nova Tail - A strong tail slap, the heel of which has some explosive power behind it, being able to spike.

Grabs:
Pummel - Elbow Jab - Wynnie elbows the opponent, slightly more damaging than Levi’s, but slightly slower as well.
Forward Throw - Dragon Rush - Wynnie tackles forwards, burying the opponent in the dirt, a good throw to set up combos on.
Down Throw - Rapid-Fire Kicks - Wynnie kicks rapidly into the opponent before kicking them away, good for wracking up damage.
Back Throw - Tail Rope - Wynnie uses her tail to toss the opponent back, a potent kill throw.
Up Throw - Axe Blender - Wynnie grinds the opponent into her axe like a blender, a strong damage-wracking tool.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Magma Axe - Wynnie charges a swing to her axe, creating a projectile that lingers on the screen and deals multiple hits of damage; the longer it's changed, the more hits are dealt. When used in the air, Wynnie instead drops her axe to create a larger projectile, but she is forced to use a standard kick (not unlike a weaker Mario’s Neutral Air) as her only attack until she lands.

• Neutral Hyper - Flame Pillars - A line of flame pillars gets created on the ground, each pillar can burn the opponent, sapping them of their Guts Meter. In the air, Wynnie instead spins her axe to launch 4 fireballs in each of the diagonal directions, also capable of burning.

Side Special - Arching Slash - Wynnie leaps over projectiles, then does a jumping slash. A good way to approach due to its good start-up, though, of course, the landing is pretty ground, as Wynnie has to get herself up afterward.

• Side Hyper - Arching Rocket - Wynnie charges some flames into this next slash, allowing her to travel further, burn opponents, and have better recovery when she lands.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Wynnie gets hit, she instead deals 1.3x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses her midair momentum. Compared to Levi, the active frames of the counter are shorter, but the counter itself deals more damage.

• Down Hyper - Burning Counter - The counter now burns the opponent, which slowly saps their stamina meter, but the counter now only deals 1.2x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Dragoon - Wynnie slashes upwards with her axe, sending her upwards. The normal version is a multi-hit that carries foes upwards. However, if she uses the attack in the opposite direction she is facing, the attack instead becomes a very potent single initial hit capable of KOing fighters at low percents. Its awkward input makes it one of the most difficult moves to land, but also one of the most rewarding.

• Up Hyper - Pyro Buster - The attack now goes higher and deals more hits of damage while also burning opponents. When reversed, the attack now sends back rather than upwards, making it a less reliable kill move, so some give and take.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - TBA -
Level 2 - TBA -
Level 3 - TBA -

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh since the backstory is being reworked, I decided to rework Levi as well, tell me how you think, expect a kit for Wynnie in the future on this very same post.

Spoiler: Levi's Kit

Name - Levi
Gender - Male
Species - Polarus Dracon
Design - Levi is a humanoid dragon, not unlike the builds of Fox and Falco. The Polarus Dracons are cyan, with several head spikes on their back, not unlike small icicles, with webbed hands and feet to give them a better grip on the ice. Levi has a long tail with a spike at the end and a thin, agile frame. His attire is mostly white, with a blue badge on his shoulder to indicate his status as a sheriff. He has an overtly refined appearance, befitting of his orderly persona.
Origin - Levi is one of the top law enforcement of the galaxy, an orderly person who cleans up crime in his sector with cold efficiency. He comes from the surface of Draden, a planet with an icy surface and molten cavernous core, and has crawled up from being a humble miner to a respected member of his community. Currently, he is up and coming for being the next chief of police in his sector, but to do so he is required to mentor a new sheriff to take his place, who is, unfortunately, the rather rambunctious Wynnie. Of course, this isn’t the only thing that will shatter his sense of organization, as a certain fiery plant will expose him to the dark underbelly of the system he helps maintain.
Archetype - Spacer
Gimmick - Tipper - Levi's prized blade, Frostpunk, has a tipper mechanic, meaning attacks that hit the sword's tip will be dealt extra damage. The parts where icy mist radiate indicate where the tipper is.
Intended Strengths -

• As a sword wielder, Levi has good range on his close-range tools.
• His Down Special, Frost Guard, is a powerful counter, allowing him extra survivability.
• Balanced stats, with good speed, weight, and agility.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Stats, while good, are nothing spectacular, so he doesn't excel at anything notable.
• A lack of a projectile makes him weak to zoners.
• His recovery is linear and somewhat predictable.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - A+
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - B
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Twin Slash - A duo of slashes are performed, one after another, icy mist trailing behind both. The first slash deals more damage, while the later slash deals more knockback.
Forward Tilt - Wide Slash - Levi reaches his arm out to perform a longer-ranged slash. It is an in-between of the two slashes of his jab, with solid damage and knockback at the tip, however, it has more end-lag.
Up Tilt - Ice Spire - A vertical thrust upwards, the icy misty Levi's sword produces are used as weak hits to push up into the stronger hit.
Down Tilt - Slippery Blade - A small thrust aimed at the opponent's knee; if the tip hits, there is a chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Backwards Slash - Levi turns around to perform a horizontal slash. His laggiest move, but his most powerful in terms of raw damage.
Dash Attack - Dashing Cutter - A fast slash is performed, with a stronger late hit to KO opponents, however, the move has high-end lag.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Ice Crash - Levi charges ice on his blade to hammer into the ground. If you fully charge this attack, the resulting ice blast can freeze opponents in place.
Up Charge - Triple Blade - Levi slashes upwards in a crescent shape. The more he charges the attack, the more slashes he performs, maxing out at three slashes.
Down Charge - Twin Froster - Levi slashes downwards at both sides, his weakest in terms of damage, but his safest and longest ranged Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Hurricane Cutter - His fastest aerial and core combo tool. Levi spins around like a buzzsaw, his sword slashing around him. A very quick and safe move, only held back by middling damage.
Forward Air - Jump Slash - Levi lunges downward and his sword hits from above. This move gives him a recovery mixup due to speedening his descent when used. This move can spike when hit in the middle of the attack.
Up Air - Waxing Crescent - Levi slashes in an upward crescent motion, the tipper launching foes upwards as a vertical kill move.
Down Air - Waning Crescent - The previous attack is performed downwards, and the tipper is now able to spike opponents.
Back Air - Quarter Slash - Slashing in an upward angle backwards, Levi can use this attack as a get-off-me tool due to its high knockback.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab - A jab with his knee, quite a quick jab that trades some power for increased speed.
Forward Throw - Dragon Kick - Levi kicks the opponent forward, launching them back. A solid through that setup combos at low percentages and KOs at high percentages.
Down Throw - Dragon Stamp - A simple kick to the ground, though the kick is strong enough to bury opponents for combos. In terms of raw damage, this is Levi’s weakest throw.
Back Throw - Cobalt Suplex - A suplex throw gets performed, launching the foe back, a solid kill throw.
Up Throw - Icicle Blade - Levi tosses the foe and launched them upward, dealing the least knockback of all his throws but is the easier to combo with.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Blurry Flurry - Levi charges his sword to perform several forward strikes, followed by a final stronger attack. The speed of these strikes makes this a potent weapon, though the end-lag of the final strike is a notable hindrance. When used in the air, this move becomes a singular horizontal strike that travels longer the more you charge, aiding in recovery.

• Neutral Hyper - Blue Blade - Canceling the charge, Levi instead performs a singular thrust forward while the blade is enwrapped in ice. If the tipper is hit, the opponent is launched while encased in ice. The attack has less recovery utility but lacks the charge needed to launch Levi forward, so its some give and take.

Side Special - Tempest Winds - Levi performs a crescent slash that launches a tempest of ice forward. This move charges over time passively, and at higher charges more icy wind is launched, freezing the opponent at full charge.

• Side Hyper - Tempest Slash - Levi unleashes a series of strikes above their head while rising into the air. This move can be directed to head in any direction, including downwards. The last hit deals considerably more knockback than the rest. This move trades its freezing capabilities for a strong recovery tool.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Levi gets hit, he instead deals 1.2x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses his midair momentum.

• Down Hyper - Freeze Counter - The counter now freezes the opponent in place in a block of ice, but the counter now only deals 1.1x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Cryo Slash - Levi slashes upwards with his ice-coated sword. This recovery move has a very strong vertical distance but very poor horizontal drift, though the fact it has invincibility on the first hits does make up for that somewhat.

• Up Hyper - Cryo Buster - A higher-damaging version of Cryo Slash that also leaps Levi at a more diagonal angle, making it a better recovery tool. Unlike base Cryo Slash, this is a strong single-hit attack rather than a multi-hit.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Vital Strike - Performing a crouching pose, Levi then slashes with a short-ranged but highly damaging strike that sends foes into a crumpled state. The high-end lag of this attack makes it highly risky to pull out, but it's no less potent of an attack.
Level 2 - Halberg - A spin-attack is performed, attacking both sides. While the attack is used, Levi spreads icy mist that instantly freezes opponents who get hit by the attack’s tipper.
Level 3 - Leviathan Blizzard - Levi’s longest ranged attack, he charges his blade, the ice shaping it into a leviathan, before he crashes the attack into the ground, dealing massive damage and knockback. One of the strongest attacks in terms of raw damage, but his laggiest as well.

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

Okay, be on the lookout for Wynnie as well, since she is being developed as we speak.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

Partially made Wynnie's kit, had a bit more trouble than Levi. I intended her to be a bit more bruiserish, with some kicks and tail slaps mixed in to reflect her less refined fighting style, to contrast Levi. She is also intended to be a bit weirder than Levi, with odd properties on some of her attacks, and unconventional mechanics. I do feel I want your help refining her potential gameplan, as well as the duo's reworked role in the lore due to the changes to the world this game takes place in, how you like them Kirbeh .

 

[Glubbfubb]

I feel like I perfected the meter mechanic in this game, want some feedback...

Hyper Stars
Before you start the match, you select one of three Hypermax Attacks, each with a varying amount of stars attached to them. To use these attacks, you need to fill up all the stars to use your selected attack. You can fill these stars by either dealing damage to opponents or receiving damage, though you fill-up stars much quicker by the former than the latter. You can also spend one of your accumulated stars to enhance your special moves into Hyper Specials, making them stronger or gaining new properties, in a few cases, even completely changing the move. Once you collect a star though, you aren't completely safe, if the opponent lines up a Charge Attack, or Shieldburst, you will lose a star, meaning you have to consider when and how you want to spend your stars. This also adds extra dimensions to the number of stars needed to use a Hypermax Attack, as picking the one that needs the least amount of stars means you can't hold onto as many Hyper Specials, while picking a Hypermax Attack with a higher star cost means it takes longer to charge, but you can save more Hyper Specials.

Stamina
The other meter is the Stamina Meter, which allows you to perform special movement options, from enhancing existing movement options to giving entirely new ones. Stamina accumulates automatically when you are grounded, either by standing or walking, and stamina will pause when you are airborne, shielding, or using attacks. Stamina allows you to run with the press of a button, offering an even faster movement option than your standard ground movement. It can be used to enhance your base jump into a higher Longjump, allowing better air positioning in the process. Further compounding increased air maneuverability, Stamina offers the ability to air dash in any of the cardinal directions, air dodge, and perform other functions. However, Stamina has some risks, if you run out of stamina when doing these actions, you will instead trip or be sent into freefall, meaning proper meter usage is required to efficiently move in the game. The most notable use of Stamina When you get KO'd, your Stamina Meter gets cut in half, punishing you for playing poorly, so staying healthy is key. Some status effects can also affect Stamina, getting burned drains your Stamina over time, getting paralysed freezes your Stamina in place, and bleeding will cause your Stamina to reduce if you use normal attacks, adding dimensions to the mechanic.

The goal of these meters is to offer some resource management in the heat of battle. Your character theoretically has more movement options compared to other platform fighters, but you need to think and work out when you want to use these movement options, creating a unique dichotomy that will definitely give the game a unique feel.

How does this look Kirbeh , I spent some time thinking about this mechanic, I think for a game like this these are the ideal ways to use these meters.

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel like I perfected the meter mechanic in this game, want some feedback...

Hyper Stars
Before you start the match, you select one of three Hypermax Attacks, each with a varying amount of stars attached to them.

Okay, so going back to the Street Fighter 3 inspiration then.

Once you collect a star though, you aren't completely safe, if the opponent lines up a Charge Attack, or Shieldburst, you will lose a star, meaning you have to consider when and how you want to spend your stars.

This is where I get a little concerned though. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, getting hit by any Charge Attack will just knock you down a star? (Also, remind me what Shield Burst is in your game btw, iirc you were previously against a burst mechanic weren't you?)

Stamina
Stamina allows you to run with the press of a button, offering an even faster movement option than your standard ground movement.

Something as basic as running costs stamina? That's certainly a choice, but I sort of the see the idea here. This would definitely slow the game down, which isn't inherently a bad thing, but it feels counterintuitive to a platform fighter if I'm being honest. Even in more traditional 2D fighters like King of Fighters and Skullgirls, characters that can run, can do so freely.

The pause on recovery while airborne is also super weird to me. A lot of the fighting in platform fighters takes place while airborne; you know, while moving platform to platform. I feel like this simply encourages players to jump around for movement as much as possible. Characters with good air mobility also get an inherent advantage as more ground focused fighters are hamstrung by their basic movement having a cost.

It can be used to enhance your base jump into a higher Longjump

Just call it a High Jump/Hi-Jump or Super Jump. The former communicates the height advantage, and the latter is a better overall descriptor if it functions for both height and distance. Calling it a long jump gives the wrong impression as a long jump is, well, long, not high.

The most notable use of Stamina When you get KO'd, your Stamina Meter gets cut in half, punishing you for playing poorly, so staying healthy is key.

This I also have a problem with. So, you get KO'd and upon respawning, you get put at a further disadvantage? This is like a weird reverse of a comeback mechanic. Already losing? Let's make that worse for you. Even worse that's it the mobility resource. If you absolutely have to have something like this, I think it'd be much fairer for the stock loss to also result in a star loss instead. This makes both the character, and their Stars less easily gimped like your current setup.

Some status effects can also affect Stamina, getting burned drains your Stamina over time, getting paralysed freezes your Stamina in place, and bleeding will cause your Stamina to reduce if you use normal attacks, adding dimensions to the mechanic.

These are mostly fine.

I did look at Levi & Wynnie's updated kits btw. I haven't been quite able to keep up given my current work schedule, but the rework of Rudder and Vespa is still in progress, though I'll be adding some comments on Levi/Wynnie to it as well. It's going to be a fairly long post, as I've been adding to it trying to address all your new posts.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Okay, so going back to the Street Fighter 3 inspiration then.


This is where I get a little concerned though. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, getting hit by any Charge Attack will just knock you down a star? (Also, remind me what Shield Burst is in your game btw, iirc you were previously against a burst mechanic weren't you?)


Something as basic as running costs stamina? That's certainly a choice, but I sort of the see the idea here. This would definitely slow the game down, which isn't inherently a bad thing, but it feels counterintuitive to a platform fighter if I'm being honest. Even in more traditional 2D fighters like King of Fighters and Skullgirls, characters that can run, can do so freely.

The pause on recovery while airborne is also super weird to me. A lot of the fighting in platform fighters takes place while airborne; you know, while moving platform to platform. I feel like this simply encourages players to jump around for movement as much as possible. Characters with good air mobility also get an inherent advantage as more ground focused fighters are hamstrung by their basic movement having a cost.


Just call it a High Jump/Hi-Jump or Super Jump. The former communicates the height advantage, and the latter is a better overall descriptor if it functions for both height and distance. Calling it a long jump gives the wrong impression as a long jump is, well, long, not high.


This I also have a problem with. So, you get KO'd and upon respawning, you get put at a further disadvantage? This is like a weird reverse of a comeback mechanic. Already losing? Let's make that worse for you. Even worse that's it the mobility resource. If you absolutely have to have something like this, I think it'd be much fairer for the stock loss to also result in a star loss instead. This makes both the character, and their Stars less easily gimped like your current setup.


These are mostly fine.

I did look at Levi & Wynnie's updated kits btw. I haven't been quite able to keep up given my current work schedule, but the rework of Rudder and Vespa is still in progress, though I'll be adding some comments on Levi/Wynnie to it as well. It's going to be a fairly long post, as I've been adding to it trying to address all your new posts.

I want a way for opponents to remove stars, that way there is some risk to hoarding stars for Hypermax Attacks. If there are better methods I'll take suggestions. I think the star system is better in my opinion, so I prefer keeping it. I may remove the pausing in the air when you air-dodge since that will be the air-dash's role now. I am open to suggestions, I just want to keep the current idea of the Star Meter being linked to offense, while the Stamina Meter is about movement and defense. Keep in mind walking is much faster on average across the roster, like Aremi's max walking speed is comparable to Pikachu's, running speed. Think of the run as a third gear of speed, does that make sense?

 

[Kirbeh]

I want a way for opponents to remove stars, that way there is some risk to hoarding stars for Hypermax Attacks. If there are better methods I'll take suggestions.

The base idea is fine, I think it offers a fresh take that you don't see too often (closest thing I can think of is the Stars from Punch-Out!! for the Wii.)

I just think that tying their loss to charge attacks doesn't make as much sense as losing a star alongside a stock. Smash/Charge attacks are often used for closing stocks anyway so:

A) Players aren't going to be fishing for Charge moves too often as is.

B) If you manage to survive the Charge, it feels odd to penalize the defending player further, they already took big damage from it.

Keep in mind walking is much faster on average across the roster, like Aremi's max walking speed is comparable to Pikachu's, running speed. Think of the run as a third gear of speed, does that make sense?

That just makes it more confusing honestly.

If that's the case, then everyone is just powerwalking across the stage? Or in most cases they would be running at that point anyway. I understand the idea of having a faster movement option tied to stamina, but if characters can achieve running speed by walking then just make that running like it normally would be and make the third option into something else.

Maybe make it like the Boost in Sonic where you can continually hold it down until you run out of stamina. Have it use the same running animation, but the character gains an aura around them and the actual running speed is increased by 1.5x or something. You could even keep the naming scheme going and call it Hyper Drive to match with Hyper Stars, Hyper Specials and Hypermax moves.

 

[Glubbfubb]

The base idea is fine, I think it offers a fresh take that you don't see too often (closest thing I can think of is the Stars from Punch-Out!! for the Wii.)

I just think that tying their loss to charge attacks doesn't make as much sense as losing a star alongside a stock. Smash/Charge attacks are often used for closing stocks anyway so:

A) Players aren't going to be fishing for Charge moves too often as is.

B) If you manage to survive the Charge, it feels odd to penalize the defending player further, they already took big damage from it.


That just makes it more confusing honestly.

If that's the case, then everyone is just powerwalking across the stage? Or in most cases they would be running at that point anyway. I understand the idea of having a faster movement option tied to stamina, but if characters can achieve running speed by walking then just make that running like it normally would be and make the third option into something else.

Maybe make it like the Boost in Sonic where you can continually hold it down until you run out of stamina. Have it use the same running animation, but the character gains an aura around them and the actual running speed is increased by 1.5x or something. You could even keep the naming scheme going and call it Hyper Drive to match with Hyper Stars, Hyper Specials and Hypermax moves.

I need to look into that idea, by the way. Here are the costs for actions that take Stamina:

Airdodge - 20
Airboost - 20
Hyperjump - 20
Run - I timed a full bar of stamina as allowing you to run max 5 seconds.

Since Stamina is gotten automatically, I want to implement a penalty where if you use an action that takes more stamina than you have, you will either trip or be sent into freefall, depending on if it is a ground or air movement. I don't know if this is a good idea really, but I want there to be some penalty if you don't manage your stamina properly. You gain stamina by being grounded, so this means sooner or later you have to land if you want to refill stamina. I don't know if this will harm my game, but I want some feedback on this penalty idea. I feel regenerating stamina by being grounded is a good mechanic regardless, encourages more grounded gameplay IMO.

 

[Kirbeh]

I need to look into that idea, by the way. Here are the costs for actions that take Stamina:

Airdodge - 20
Airboost - 20
Hyperjump - 20
Run - I timed a full bar of stamina as allowing you to run max 5 seconds.

Since Stamina is gotten automatically, I want to implement a penalty where if you use an action that takes more stamina than you have, you will either trip or be sent into freefall, depending on if it is a ground or air movement. I don't know if this is a good idea really, but I want there to be some penalty if you don't manage your stamina properly. You gain stamina by being grounded, so this means sooner or later you have to land if you want to refill stamina. I don't know if this will harm my game, but I want some feedback on this penalty idea. I feel regenerating stamina by being grounded is a good mechanic regardless, encourages more grounded gameplay IMO.

All of this is fine imo, though I would at least change the freefall into a sort of aerial tumble to make it more equivalent to tripping on the ground.

The penalty mechanics add more layers to smartly managing your stamina but freefall would basically be a death sentence if you were already off stage.

Tripping leaves you open but you can still quickly get back to your feet. You get penalized but aren't completely helpless. The same should apply in the air where you're arguably already in a worse position if the opponent is given the opportunity for a free hit.

As for stamina regeneration I would say that you could make it recover in the air too but not when attacking or performing other actions. You have to be just falling or at most drifting left or right.

Overall stamina regeneration on the ground could also faster to incentivize landing as soon as possible and remaining grounded when low on stamina.

 

[Glubbfubb]

All of this is fine imo, though I would at least change the freefall into a sort of aerial tumble to make it more equivalent to tripping on the ground.

The penalty mechanics add more layers to smartly managing your stamina but freefall would basically be a death sentence if you were already off stage.

Tripping leaves you open but you can still quickly get back to your feet. You get penalized but aren't completely helpless. The same should apply in the air where you're arguably already in a worse position if the opponent is given the opportunity for a free hit.

As for stamina regeneration I would say that you could make it recover in the air too but not when attacking or performing other actions. You have to be just falling or at most drifting left or right.

Overall stamina regeneration on the ground could also faster to incentivize landing as soon as possible and remaining grounded when low on stamina.

What would an aerial tumble even look like, from both a physical and mechanical standpoint? My idea is that you reach an awkward position in the air and you to spend some time readjusting yourself, still being able to move but not able to attack, so a temporary freefall if you will. Stamina recharges at a reasonable pace already, taking a second and a half to go from 0 to full, which may sound short but in the heat of battle taking a second to rest can be huge for the opponent.

 

[Kirbeh]

What would an aerial tumble even look like, from both a physical and mechanical standpoint? My idea is that you reach an awkward position in the air and you to spend some time readjusting yourself, still being able to move but not able to attack, so a temporary freefall if you will. Stamina recharges at a reasonable pace already, taking a second and a half to go from 0 to full, which may sound short but in the heat of battle taking a second to rest can be huge for the opponent.

The aerial tumble would look pretty much like it does in Smash. Some attacks and other interactions can cause it, but you can most commonly see when getting foot-stooled in midair.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tumbling

It's basically (not exact but close) what you're trying to do but you're referring to both states as freefall.

 

[Glubbfubb]

The aerial tumble would look pretty much like it does in Smash. Some attacks and other interactions can cause it, but you can most commonly see when getting foot-stooled in midair.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tumbling

It's basically (not exact but close) what you're trying to do but you're referring to both states as freefall.

I see, my idea for tumbling was that you enter an awkward pose and can't attack until the character reorientates themselves, so again a temporary freefall.

Also, just so you know, there won't be footstooling; I never got that mechanic and it feels especially cheesy in a game like this.

Otherwise, I feel the Stamina mechanic is okay as is, just need to rework the freefalling and turn it into tumbling.

 

[Kirbeh]

I see, my idea for tumbling was that you enter an awkward pose and can't attack until the character reorientates themselves, so again a temporary freefall.

Yeah, that's more or less what tumbling in Smash is, which is why I brought it up...

You were using the term "free fall" to describe both actual free fall and tumbling which is why I assumed you were leaving characters completely helpless.

Also, just so you know, there won't be footstooling; I never got that mechanic and it feels especially cheesy in a game like this.

Didn't think it would be, nor do I think it fits your game.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Yeah, that's more or less what tumbling in Smash is, which is why I brought it up...

You were using the term "free fall" to describe both actual free fall and tumbling which is why I assumed you were leaving characters completely helpless.


Didn't think it would be, nor do I think it fits your game.

Footstools would likely be a pain to program, and I have to already worry about how to get the grabs and Smash DI just right, so something as superfluous as Footstooling seems unnecessary.

With all these new movement options, now I need to figure out how to design stages that accommodate a game engine with more extreme movement options. Maybe make the stages bigger to accommodate the new movement options, that could work ngl. I am trying to make a new style of platfighter that takes advantage of the platformer aspect of platfighters to experiment with new movement options.

 

[Kirbeh]

Footstools would likely be a pain to program, and I have to already worry about how to get the grabs and Smash DI just right, so something as superfluous as Footstooling seems unnecessary.

I mean, again, no one was expecting or is asking for footstools in Sigma Busters. I only brought it up so you could see an example of the tumbling animation.

With all these new movement options, now I need to figure out how to design stages that accommodate a game engine with more extreme movement options. Maybe make the stages bigger to accommodate the new movement options, that could work ngl. I am trying to make a new style of platfighter that takes advantage of the platformer aspect of platfighters to experiment with new movement options.

I would say the average stage size should probably be a bit bigger than that of Smash or Rivals depending on how you want to handle the speed boosting. Characters would in theory cover a lot of ground pretty quickly using that along with the hyper jump and air dashing.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, again, no one was expecting or is asking for footstools in Sigma Busters. I only brought it up so you could see an example of the tumbling animation.


I would say the average stage size should probably be a bit bigger than that of Smash or Rivals depending on how you want to handle the speed boosting. Characters would in theory cover a lot of ground pretty quickly using that along with the hyper jump and air dashing.

Honestly, something like Big Battlefield, though maybe a bit smaller, but that's what I'll likely aim for.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly, something like Big Battlefield, though maybe a bit smaller, but that's what I'll likely aim for.

So, as a slight preview of the current write up, what do you think of the name Celestine? It's the name of a mineral that can form in geodes, (with the world's largest geode actually being a celestine geode.)

I mentioned back when you first brought it up, that the more earth-based cicada character would be better as a separate concept from Vespa, and that's exactly what I tried to do.

I still intend for Vespa's design to be a bee and honey pot ant hybrid (as a side note, I saw your suggestion to change her body shape, and I will be doing that which you'll see in the full post.) And the ant part is where I'm creating the relationship between these two characters. Like the first concept we threw around of making the two kingdoms work together, Celestine's species is a cicada and ant hybrid, with both species being distinct but still related hence why they work well together. Both are the respective queens of their kingdoms but have a close relationship not just as a species but as friends/allies, essentially treating each other like family.

The adjustment to Vespa's body shape and overall design, along with her weapon of choice (still a stave/wand/rod based on honey dippers,) makes a direct Smash comparison a bit difficult, but I'd still compare her to King Dedede as I did before. A heavyweight with multiple short jumps.

Similarly, the move set I'm designing for Celestine doesn't really have a straightforward comparison I could make to an existing Smash character, but I'd place her closest to Ganondorf (pre-Ultimate), albeit with slightly less damage and slightly better mobility (plus, completely different specials and gameplan.) She's heavy and a bit sluggish but has good power behind her strikes.

Last thing I'll add is that while I'm adjusting Vespa's design, you're still going to see that particular body shape pop again (and no, it's not on Celestine.)

 

[Glubbfubb]

So, as a slight preview of the current write up, what do you think of the name Celestine? It's the name of a mineral that can form in geodes, (with the world's largest geode actually being a celestine geode.)

I mentioned back when you first brought it up, that the more earth-based cicada character would be better as a separate concept from Vespa, and that's exactly what I tried to do.

I still intend for Vespa's design to be a bee and honey pot ant hybrid (as a side note, I saw your suggestion to change her body shape, and I will be doing that which you'll see in the full post.) And the ant part is where I'm creating the relationship between these two characters. Like the first concept we threw around of making the two kingdoms work together, Celestine's species is a cicada and ant hybrid, with both species being distinct but still related hence why they work well together. Both are the respective queens of their kingdoms but have a close relationship not just as a species but as friends/allies, essentially treating each other like family.

The adjustment to Vespa's body shape and overall design, along with her weapon of choice (still a stave/wand/rod based on honey dippers,) makes a direct Smash comparison a bit difficult, but I'd still compare her to King Dedede as I did before. A heavyweight with multiple short jumps.

Similarly, the move set I'm designing for Celestine doesn't really have a straightforward comparison I could make to an existing Smash character, but I'd place her closest to Ganondorf (pre-Ultimate), albeit with slightly less damage and slightly better mobility (plus, completely different specials and gameplan.) She's heavy and a bit sluggish but has good power behind her strikes.

Last thing I'll add is that while I'm adjusting Vespa's design, you're still going to see that particular body shape pop again (and no, it's not on Celestine.)

I like that, I also wanted to update Chell now that she's the oldest outdated kit, I'll be posting that later today or the next day.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh alongside Chell, i might also rework Ahab, since i have an acutally cool idea for him. Instead of specifically a boxer, I'm also implementing some mixed martial art moves, so imagine a fusion of Little Mac, Barlog, DeeJay, etc. I'll say that due to some balancing factors, instead of a multi-jump I'm going to instead give him a Ness or Yoshi styled jump, one that is floatier and longer lasting, allowing Ahab to double jump cancel, thus still having an excellent air game. The overall idea now is that Ahab is slow on the ground, much like a stereotypical heavy, but has fantastic air stats, with excellent aerial movement.