SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[D. Disciple]

Yes, yes you should. Even though I would prefer the 50% for some ASC shenanigans, but that's just me.

I see it like this, if I ever get caught into that set up you just said, you should have the attitude of "Congrats, now I will rock your *** for the next two stocks."

 

[phi1ny3]

Snake ftilt1 iirc is only a trap unless you do ftilt2, you can't actually guarantee jab/grab/utilt from ftilt1 unless they trip. That being said, I think that you have just enough frames to roll/spotdodge if you're fast enough, plus you're able to do some DI on the dair, so I think dair is only a trap, at least that's according to my experience (we had a really good falco for the longest time, even Junebug/ksizzle and the like can say he was pretty good when they met him at MLG's/Apex). But yeah, imo the point should be that we should avoid the grab, even dthrow x3 -> dair or gatling does enough damage to not want to get hit by it right off the bat

 

[John12346]

Falco's Dair has less endlag than Snake's Ftilt(provided he doesn't do Ftilt2, of course). That's probably how Falco's capable of getting the grab while Snake isn't.

 

[phi1ny3]

Just tested it in frame advance today to make sure, you have enough time to roll/spotdodge out of it before he can turnaround grab (which is 7 frames iirc, regular grab frames = 6 + 1 frame turnaround), just as I thought. And there would also have to be DI taken into account, as I'm sure you can SDI the dair a good amount. Turnaround jab might be possible, but we all know how jab is escapable, so it sounds like we're back onto the theory of buffer dthrow x3 -> dair

 

[John12346]

I'm just gonna leave this here, since I did go through the trouble of typing it already...

Some of these stratagems may or may not be John#s specific, so take it with a grain of salt.

Well, the -1 came from the fact that we do have some things on Snake, to the point that we can make the matchup not ******** like Snake vs. a lot of other characters is.

I'm told by a lot of other tourneygoers that I have a stupidly large excess of patience when I'm playing, so I'm gonna go off a limb here and say you need to be really patient for this match. Staying in your shield, while keeping a "don't get grabbed" mentality can work wonders in this matchup.

We CAN reasonably camp Snake if we know what we're doing. With our stupid-*** rolls and overall general floatiness, the most we should be getting hit by are the grenades themselves, not the explosions. Staying airborne can work wonders on Snake's camp game, and if he approaches, what's he gonna do to you from below? Uair?

Some of your are probably gonna ask, "OMG BUT HOW DUZ LUCRIO LNAD!?!??!?" Here's a fun fact. Snake's Ftilt moves Snake forward slightly, and there's no hitbox inside Snake's body... so land inside Snake, like, literally so you're overlapping him, and spotdodge right away. Ftilt can't hit from that position, so the most Snake can do from here is dash away for a pivot grab, and you should have enough time to react to that.

Lucario also has the option to land on Snake's shield with ASC. Snake doesn't have much of an anti air outside of Utilt, and even then, it's awkward to use while he has his shield up. So, in essence, Snake doesn't have much of a response to it either. He either has to drop his shield and get hit(combo'ing into Utilt or Grab for free) or roll away, which is obviously a reset which enabled you to land. Problem solved.

When we consider characters who rely on getting fast punishes off on opponents who hit their shields with an attack, rapid hitting moves such as infinite jabs can really be a saving grace in that particular matchup. Now, Lucario is the only character in the game who is capable of starting a rapid in midair; ASC to be precise, and even though it has really low disjoint, Snake doesn't have anything to stop an approach from a 45 degree angle. So in essence, this is actually a very reliable approach.

Oh, and Fsmash is cool I guess. It's safe on his shield as long as you don't get powershielded obviously, and it can also blow up his nades without hurting you, so that'll add an extra level of protection in case he actually does powershield your Fsmash. And of course, I don't need to mention how helpful it is in catching characters with a poor ability to land, so go nuts with Fsmash, I guess.

The matchup is basically "be patient, keep your shield up, don't get grabbed, and ASC *****(?)" You'll notice all of that doesn't actually kill Snake, and considering he does have massive disjoint, range, speed, and power on us, he clearly doesn't have to put in much work, especially since he can punish with ease if mistakes are made on our part when the time comes to kill Snake.

Anyway, Lucario has the tools to deal with Snake, but Snake obviously has it easier on his end. So... slight disadvantage. This matchup isn't as ******** as MK.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Helloooooo Lucariooooos.

Not sure if this is the place to post this, but the Olimars are discussing you guys.
Obviously you don't have to come, but your input would be appreciated. ^_^

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh my, I'll go visit since I've played that MU a bit.

 

[Alus]

You guys seem like you have been on fox for about forever now.

 

[IceDX]

^ yeah its time to move...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tis true, who would people like next?

 

[D. Disciple]

Do some of the lower tier characters for awhile.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Yoshi, anyone?

Green eggs and spam...

 

[D. Disciple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvaiFUP6vI&feature=channel_video_title - so many eggs

 

[Steam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvaiFUP6vI&feature=channel_video_title - so many eggs

I like how the lucario still won

 

[D. Disciple]

That would be me

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Go go Yoshi.

 

[Pitbuller26]

I would say Yoshi is probably our most easier if not easiest matchup. Well for me it is. Just do Lucario things and you win, kind of hard to lose this match.

Shield or PS eggs. We beat him on the ground and the air. Don't know if we get chaingrabbed or not.

All in all, a matchup that's heavily in Lucario's favor.

 

[YOSHssb]

Yoshi can't chaingrab Lucario. The MU isn't "heavily" favorable toward Lucario, but it is in Lucario's favor. I'd say it's 60:40. I might go as high as 65:35 (mainly because I played Lee Martin's Lucario at WHobo 2), but I think it's 60:40 from playing D-Disciple a couple times and how many times I've played Trela whenever I go down to Houston.

 

[phi1ny3]

We don't get CG'd, a rather nice feature about the MU.

The biggest issue is that Yoshi has all the problems Wario has with getting inside and unlike Wario, none of the killpower in the right places (aka ones that don't have to deal with lucario's aerials as badly) to keep Lucario's aura in check, or as much of a reward for getting in either. I can see it being workable for Yoshi, as Yoshi also has probably decent CPs to alleviate some of this, but it's an otherwise problematic MU.

 

[Steam]

if lucario plants his feet on the ground he should pretty much never die. yoshi's probably going to be using egg lay a lot. it's the only thing that keeps him from getting ***** upon landing and beats our aerials. it also puts lucario in the air and while our dair stuffs pretty much everything below us, only the second hit breaks through yoshi's DJ armor. so we'll mostly be seeing Uair/downB kills. all in all it's pretty horrible since we kinda counter yoshi everywhere. +3 / 65-35 is definitely where it should be.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

The thing to watch out for is the Draconic Reverse.

Just don't get too comfortable just standing on the ground.

 

[Scatz]

The thing to watch out for is the Draconic Reverse.

Just don't get too comfortable just standing on the ground.

Yoshis that actually uses that move? Lmao, I don't remember anyone using DR effectively lately.

 

[John12346]

This MU is absolute garbage for Yoshi.

Honestly, I can't think of one thing he has on us, outside of Nair being an annoying combo-breaker.

Just do standard Lucario things and you're set.

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, n-air doesn't stop your combos. We need to DJ first then n-air in order to get out of them at low percentages.

Seriously, if Yoshi doesn't use his DJ to escape strings then he just gets tossed around like a puppet.

 

[culexus・wau]

just live and win


:>

 

[Sunnysunny]

Lamest matchup ever for poor yoshi. xD
Theres alot of things that make this matchup gay, but heres the two things that I reaaaally hate about this MU..

1. We can't camp you. Yea, usually yoshi's eggs are pretty godlike and let us get in, set up follow ups, or run away. But your projectile can be fired, hit us, and you still have time to block the egg. That and its just so dangerous to throw em and have you guys just block and get a fully charged aura sphere for free. ._.

2. We can't kill you! Lucario was like MADE to counter every single kill move we have. Are usually awesome up-smash is beaten by D-air along with our awesome U-air. U-air can trade with D-air so becareful about that. Just space normaly you'll be fine. Oh and F-smash is F-smash and is horrible in the first place. I havn't played much lucario's but everytime I do it seems like I only get kills with N-air which is a pretty late killer.


Sorry, I know this is typed like a 2 year old. xD Havn't had much sleep lately so my brain is mush. Damn you coffee!! You double edges sword, you!

 

[D. Disciple]

Plant your feet on the ground and counter everything he throws at you.

 

[Jar.]

"Don't get hit"
Easy as that.
:3

 

[Pitbuller26]

"Don't get hit"
Easy as that.
:3

Lucario's case in the matchup. Don't get hit, we win. Hit us and we win.

 

[Jar.]

Lucario's case in the matchup. Don't get hit, we win. Hit us and we win.

Unless you suck.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm gonna start the next one, using my powers I demand a Mario discussion.

Go!

 

[hichez50]

Just don't get pressured by fireball. I only find myself losing when I react to a fireball incorrectly And the Mario capitalizes on it.

 

[condemned_soul]

hichez is on the right road...... you guys and your dairs. its like if im lucario and i im in the air.....dair. you guys have to watch out for the fludd and the cape. you fsmash out reaches our fsmash (which is why i stutter step my fsmashes. we can cape/fludd to save us / destroy you......fireballs are a must since they give good damage.......its a fun match up but ill go with 50/50. i hope to play you again soon red ryu.........maybe you can even the score lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

This matchup is boring as hell. All Lucario wants to do is throw out walls, and all Mario wants to do is just kinda tickle his way in. Unless someone screws up significantly enough, the best way to get kills in this matchup generally is by edgeguarding/juggling.

Mario has some cool easy to hit confirm Jab cancel combos on Lucario. Jab cancel D-smash in particular is pretty easy for Mario to land once he gets close. At certain spacings, Mario can in fact Jab cancel reverse U-smash Lucario, though you shouldn't really worry about that most of the time, just mainly the point is that Lucario due to being skinny and floaty is easy for Mario to Jab cancel combo. Mario's D-throw isn't quite as good in this matchup since he has to make sure to not bite the D-air when juggling Lucario. Caping Aura Sphere occasionally is funny.

 

[culexus・wau]

dairs not a problem if you bait it like any airdodge lol

Mario would not get as ***** in this MU if he just wasn't so trash offstage

 

[Matador]

-1 for Mario, imo.

In general, Lucario's survivability + aura, and his advantage in range and priority give him the edge.

Not huge, but it's a hassle to get around.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Being fair here, I think +1 Lucario/0 is totally reasonable for Mario.

I should post more info on this MU later since I've played it a lot and I do feel like it's one of Lucario's if not his hardest low tier to face.

 

[Steam]

This matchup is boring as hell. All Lucario wants to do is throw out walls, and all Mario wants to do is just kinda tickle his way in. Unless someone screws up significantly enough, the best way to get kills in this matchup generally is by edgeguarding/juggling.

Mario has some cool easy to hit confirm Jab cancel combos on Lucario. Jab cancel D-smash in particular is pretty easy for Mario to land once he gets close. At certain spacings, Mario can in fact Jab cancel reverse U-smash Lucario, though you shouldn't really worry about that most of the time, just mainly the point is that Lucario due to being skinny and floaty is easy for Mario to Jab cancel combo. Mario's D-throw isn't quite as good in this matchup since he has to make sure to not bite the D-air when juggling Lucario. Caping Aura Sphere occasionally is funny.

Lucario can use sideB after being jabbed and even if he initiates it in the air the grab will still work as long as he lands by frame 9. it's great against falco's and lucario's jab cancels. not sure about mario though.

 

[culexus・wau]

spaced right mario jab cancels have +frames

 

[hichez50]

... Caping Aura Sphere occasionally is funny.

Another thing I usually only see average Mario's doing is using way too much cape. A lot of the time if I just charge an aura sphere mario's will sit there and do not but cape after(what seems like) every move the perform. They don't even try to read when an aura sphere coming. In higher level play some times I see Mario's caping Aura sphere in very risky situations. Mario's first priority should be surviving and not punishing.

Generally I say that mario's should just play really gay vs. lucario and and just stay with bair and fireballs. There should never be a urgent rush to kill lucario below 100's. I also surprised this still works as much as it does but from around 70+ lucarios fully charged aura shpere's will eat fireballs so be careful.

If the mario doesn't ban FD I would probably take them there or frigate. Does anyone have better ideas?