Social Skyworld Hub - "Soaring through the Skys"

[Tito Maas]

Must I always bring up how many times I've killed someone with the second hit of f-smash at 75% by the ledge with no rage?

I'd rather you mention how you've been able to set it up because Pit players just don't get consistent success with FSmash.

On a related note, I killed with FSmash at 69% on the edge; tipper. Been playing with Pit for 1 year (picked him up last March) and have never killed with anything that early.

Down Smash is still better

Eh, as fast as it is it isn't really a go-to kill option. I wish the angle didn't send people flying so far vertically.

How on earth is Roy a meh character?

Man, they were right in the Roy thread.

But it's still a good fsmash on a good character.

He's bottom tier according to the tier list.

 

[Sensane]

I'd rather you mention how you've been able to set it up because Pit players just don't get consistent success with FSmash.

Well that's just it really lol; I just throw it out against a character's recovery and hope for the best . It isn't consistent at all sadly, but yet I've managed to exploit it quite a few times.

Uh... I don't know who you were talking to but they've steered you wrong. Waaaay wrong. Roy has absolutely no good tournament results and there's not a single decent player who'll vouch for him. Most people agree he's at least a half tier too high on the backroom's tier list.

Maybe if people actually played the character instead of simplify his potential based on results and representation, which [admittedly are important, but] do NOT make a character, then people would see that he isn't a low tier character. While he isn't anything high tier worthy at all (his poor neutral game and recovery definitely hold him back), he's definitely somewhere mid/low mid tier in my book. Right now I'm currently training and encouraging a friend of mine who's a Roy main and I'm also working on maining Roy to give a middle finger to the blatant opinions on him. I'm even testing b-throw combos.

 

[Koiba]

tipper.

wat
It doesn't have a tipper tho
Regardless 69% is still pretty low

 

[The Merc]

Uh... I don't know who you were talking to but they've steered you wrong. Waaaay wrong. Roy has absolutely no good tournament results and there's not a single decent player who'll vouch for him. Most people agree he's at least a half tier too high on the backroom's tier list.

^

What the hell is this crap?!?!

Half the points you made are half the reasons why Roy isn't bottom tier list. It doesn't have enough play time or tournament results to definitively say he is low tier. I've pick p Roy and have been learning more about him and I can easily say the he is not as low has he is said to be. And actually, there are a number of players in the Roy thread who have said they have meat with Top players in there region and have said Roy is not low.

Maybe if people actually played the character instead of simplify his potential based on results and representation, which [admittedly are important, but] do NOT make a character, then people would see that he isn't a low tier character. While he isn't anything high tier worthy at all (his poor neutral game and recovery definitely hold him back), he's definitely somewhere mid/low mid tier in my book. Right now I'm currently training and encouraging a friend of mine who's a Roy main and I'm also working on maining Roy to give a middle finger to the blatant opinions on him. I'm even testing b-throw combos.

Exactly! Thank you.

Wait....

While he isn't anything high tier worthy at all (his poor neutral game and recovery definitely hold him back),

......

This, is kind of wrong.

He's bottom tier according to the tier list.

That was release 2 days before a patch.

 

[Koiba]

That was release 2 days before a patch.

It wouldn't matter


Why do you think Roy is good and how good do you think he is?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

View attachment 101085

It wouldn't matter


Why do you think Roy is good and how good do you think he is?

Roy is ya Boi

 

[The Merc]

View attachment 101085

It wouldn't matter


Why do you think Roy is good and how good do you think he is?

He got some endlag buffs the patch before.

Anyway,, Roy is very much a slept on character, with a lot of combos, good speed, good neutral, many options and good kill moves. Sure, not all of his combo's are true but that doesn't make him any worse. He has get set ups (jab. All i really need to say) and can easily play aggressive or defensive at will. Plus he has some good kill set ups (did you know at kill percents jab or Uair can lead to Bair near the edge and kill?) If you feel like this answer is weak and want a better one, I highly recommend that you go to the Roy Social Thread and ask there.

 

[Tito Maas]

wat
It doesn't have a tipper tho
Regardless 69% is still pretty low

All of Pit's blade-based moves have a tipper

 

[The Merc]

All of Pit's blade-based moves have a tipper

No only Ftilt does

You are thinking of Marth

 

[LancerStaff]

All of Pit's blade-based moves have a tipper

No... Check out Kuroganehammer.

Pit Fsmash (2) 10% 361º 42 BKB 122 KBG

Marth Fsmash 13%/13%/13%/18% 361º 55/55/55/80 BKB 80 KBG

Marth's Fsmash has a buttload of different hitboxes, noted by the slashes. Pit's second hit of Fsmash does not. Some of Pit's moves have hitboxes with stronger and weaker hit, and more still can launch at different angles for linking properly, but Pit generally doesn't have tippers and even has a move sporting Roy-like hitboxes, Dsmash.

Back to Roy...

Maybe if people actually played the character instead of simplify his potential based on results and representation, which [admittedly are important, but] do NOT make a character, then people would see that he isn't a low tier character. While he isn't anything high tier worthy at all (his poor neutral game and recovery definitely hold him back), he's definitely somewhere mid/low mid tier in my book. Right now I'm currently training and encouraging a friend of mine who's a Roy main and I'm also working on maining Roy to give a middle finger to the blatant opinions on him. I'm even testing b-throw combos.

This opinion I can get behind, though I don't necessarily agree with.

^

What the hell is this crap?!?!

Half the points you made are half the reasons why Roy isn't bottom tier list. It doesn't have enough play time or tournament results to definitively say he is low tier. I've pick p Roy and have been learning more about him and I can easily say the he is not as low has he is said to be. And actually, there are a number of players in the Roy thread who have said they have meat with Top players in there region and have said Roy is not low.

Exactly! Thank you.

Wait....

......

This, is kind of wrong.

This, I cannot. It's insanity to think Roy has anything remotely high tier about him, to be frank. He moves fast but he lacks any good neutral tools. Nair I don't think is even a proper blockstring so even the otherwise impressively safe second hit is out of grasp, never mind that it's still hindered by requiring close range spacing and loses incredibly hard to powershield unlike virtually every other safe move. Dash grab and dash attack are laughably bad approach options and anything else is mediocre at best.

If Roy manages to get in... The vast majority of his combos are easy to DI out of on reaction. Raw damage is good, not great. It's severely hindered by his backwards hitboxes and poor frame data. Roy's dash attack does 13% max, and yet it comes out a few frames later and has ten more frames of endlag then Pit's which does 11% no matter where you hit with it, for example. His killing ability is also quite poor, with no way to kill off of a grab, no safe kill moves or conversions, and even with a hard read or punish he can't do the job right because his backwards hitboxes mess everything up again. Can't kill off a tilt like Marth can because he needs to be ridiculously close, and his Fsmash is mostly sourspot that's fully survivable until 160% and isn't even that fast. The 20% hitbox where you get your insanely fast kills from is buried behind a 17% hitbox which is more normal Fsmash power compared to other characters built like him. Usmash kills much later for how he's built and strictly above him too, while Dsmash is a pathetic joke of a move that's not even good for hard reads because the backwards hitboxes neuter the risk/reward of the move to unusability.

Roy's disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Gets carried across the stage by any character due to his physics, airdodge is mediocre, Nair comes out F6 practically inside of him and every other aerial that potentially could be used for landing is F10 or worse with no constant, lingering hitboxes to speak of. His recovery is dismal. Like, it's probably worth it for Little Mac to mess with him it's so bad. Since his Fair takes forever to come out and he lacks any means of stalling offstage he's only ever an airdodge read away from death, and Blazer is ridiculously easy to challenge too with it's poorly placed hitboxes. He can't even go offstage himself with his Dair being a strong contender for worst move in the game.

Legit question: What part of this make him high tier?

 

[The Merc]

This, I cannot. It's insanity to think Roy has anything remotely high tier about him, to be frank. He moves fast but he lacks any good neutral tools. Nair I don't think is even a proper blockstring so even the otherwise impressively safe second hit is out of grasp, never mind that it's still hindered by requiring close range spacing and loses incredibly hard to powershield unlike virtually every other safe move. Dash grab and dash attack are laughably bad approach options and anything else is mediocre at best.

If Roy manages to get in... The vast majority of his combos are easy to DI out of on reaction. Raw damage is good, not great. It's severely hindered by his backwards hitboxes and poor frame data. Roy's dash attack does 13% max, and yet it comes out a few frames later and has ten more frames of endlag then Pit's which does 11% no matter where you hit with it, for example. His killing ability is also quite poor, with no way to kill off of a grab, no safe kill moves or conversions, and even with a hard read or punish he can't do the job right because his backwards hitboxes mess everything up again. Can't kill off a tilt like Marth can because he needs to be ridiculously close, and his Fsmash is mostly sourspot that's fully survivable until 160% and isn't even that fast. The 20% hitbox where you get your insanely fast kills from is buried behind a 17% hitbox which is more normal Fsmash power compared to other characters built like him. Usmash kills much later for how he's built and strictly above him too, while Dsmash is a pathetic joke of a move that's not even good for hard reads because the backwards hitboxes neuter the risk/reward of the move to unusability.

Roy's disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Gets carried across the stage by any character due to his physics, airdodge is mediocre, Nair comes out F6 practically inside of him and every other aerial that potentially could be used for landing is F10 or worse with no constant, lingering hitboxes to speak of. His recovery is dismal. Like, it's probably worth it for Little Mac to mess with him it's so bad. Since his Fair takes forever to come out and he lacks any means of stalling offstage he's only ever an airdodge read away from death, and Blazer is ridiculously easy to challenge too with it's poorly placed hitboxes. He can't even go offstage himself with his Dair being a strong contender for worst move in the game.

Legit question: What part of this make him high tier?

I....I.... can't even read this without trying to smash my head against a wall. Like just seriously, you really know nothing about the character.

Seriously, when did I say once that I though Roy was high tier? What I was getting at was he isn't low tier.

Just reading this, I don't think you understand Roy all that much. Yes, there are aspects of this that you do have points to, but other than that just no. So much no.

"lacks goot neutral moves". Jab. I seriously don't need to say anything else.

Mate, just cause his sweet spot is near him doesn't make him worse automatically. Hell, I can say a number of times that his sour spot has been the better option than his sweet.
Yes, his grab range and throws were nerf a bit but his grab game is still very strong. Not only does he have to gabs that lead to combos, but he also has a throw that kills!

Roy's Dash Attack kills

Killing ability quiet poor? Your kidding right?

Can't kill off tilts?!?! Seriously, Utilt. And since when can Marth kill of Sourspot tilts?

You are 100% right about Fsmash. It has a super sweet spot that kill super early. A Sweet spot that doesn't kill as early but still great kill move and a sourspot that while won't kill, will stop opponents from punishing you.

Oh, so a smash attack that comes out F6, kills at 125% is "bad"? Only thing that makes it bad is the endlag.

Okay, Blazer isn't on recovery levels of Pit, but no way is it comparable to Little Mac. That's is just insulting.

Again, I disagree. Roy can easily go off stage and edge guard.

In the end, that only thing here that I agree with you on is his new Dair sucks. But even then, i have found uses for it.

 

[Sensane]

Roy's frame data is still better than Marth's, though.

Edit: LancerStaff you do realize that most if not all characters in the game have landing lag at f10 or higher, right? (Then again I can't blame you as Roy doesn't have any aerials that can autocancel from a short hop).

 

[The Merc]

Roy's frame data is still better than Marth's, though.

Save one or two moves.

(Then again I can't blame you as Roy doesn't have any aerials that can autocancel from a short hop).

^This fact hurts the most. I wish it weren't true. Though to be fair, Roy's landing lag's on most his aerials are pretty good.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'd be completely okay for Roy to be even mid-tier (I main few, anyway), but I honestly think it's still too early to label him as bad as bottom tier, especially with not many elaborate examples on why this is so.

The true problem with him is still how he lacks dedicated players that are willing to give him more exposure and time instead of dropping him on the middle because he's not a "functional" fighter like other characters. His strengths are there and can be applied with proper use and smart aggressiveness (or even defensive play as I've tried lately). The fact is that he's just difficult to jump to because he's not straight-forward fighter like more popular characters these days. But he's no UMVC3's Hsien-Ko despite that comparison.

Even if he got a Hoo-Hah, autocancels or something else practical, he wouldn't become instantly more popular at once because playing him in the smart level isn't anything straight-forward at all as other characters - which then leads players to be frustrated because he's not suddenly a "viable" or "pick-up-to-be-good" character like most high tier/high mid tiers. I personally think there's a niche that needs to be discovered in him, akin to most characters this early in the tier lists and game's life cycle.

 

[Sensane]

If I can master [or at least makse a decision about] the high percent b-throw combos I've been exploring, here's what I'll do: at OUTFOXX'D this weekend, if I face either Ally or Mr. R in bracket, I'm going Roy [for at least one game].

 

[EnGarde]

Somehow ended up unsubscribed to this thread smh.

I'm jumping down a bit, but the idea that Roy doesn't have any tournament results at all is nonsense. He is starting to pull in some modest local and regional level results. I'm the one that maintains the tournament results spreadsheet that was created to combat this misconception, which I'll link here. This spreadsheet will fill up with more results as time goes on. My fellow dedicated Roy mains and I will see to it.

Spoiler: results screenshot

Us Roy mains are working quite hard to improve our player fundamentals as well as innovate our character. He has a LOT of unexplored potential, with Roy specific tech that hasn't fully been explored yet. I personally believe he is mid-tier with high-mid or low-high potential. Considering this is a Pit social thread, and not Roy focused, I probably won't respond too much further on the subject, because I don't want to accidentally hijack the thread.

 

[LancerStaff]

I....I.... can't even read this without trying to smash my head against a wall. Like just seriously, you really know nothing about the character.

Seriously, when did I say once that I though Roy was high tier? What I was getting at was he isn't low tier.

Just reading this, I don't think you understand Roy all that much. Yes, there are aspects of this that you do have points to, but other than that just no. So much no.

"lacks goot neutral moves". Jab. I seriously don't need to say anything else.

Mate, just cause his sweet spot is near him doesn't make him worse automatically. Hell, I can say a number of times that his sour spot has been the better option than his sweet.
Yes, his grab range and throws were nerf a bit but his grab game is still very strong. Not only does he have to gabs that lead to combos, but he also has a throw that kills!

Roy's Dash Attack kills

Killing ability quiet poor? Your kidding right?

Can't kill off tilts?!?! Seriously, Utilt. And since when can Marth kill of Sourspot tilts?

You are 100% right about Fsmash. It has a super sweet spot that kill super early. A Sweet spot that doesn't kill as early but still great kill move and a sourspot that while won't kill, will stop opponents from punishing you.

Oh, so a smash attack that comes out F6, kills at 125% is "bad"? Only thing that makes it bad is the endlag.

Okay, Blazer isn't on recovery levels of Pit, but no way is it comparable to Little Mac. That's is just insulting.

Again, I disagree. Roy can easily go off stage and edge guard.

In the end, that only thing here that I agree with you on is his new Dair sucks. But even then, i have found uses for it.

You were implying it pretty heavily when you were saying Sensane was wrong about something, quoting the part where he said he wasn't a high tier...

Ultimately the reason people don't play Roy is because people have no reason to be attached to him and he offers no notable gameplay advantage, and he's even more worse off because his development is half a year behind most everybody else's and he costs money to play.

Roy's tournament results are still worse off then other characters around where he's placed no matter how you slice it.

 

[Tito Maas]

Didn't they make every blade based move in the game have a tipper in Smash 4

Also what determines how launch angles change

 

[LancerStaff]

Didn't they make every blade based move in the game have a tipper in Smash 4

Also what determines how launch angles change

Absolutely not.

Besides DI and Sakurai angle related things it depends on where you hit. All but Pit's Dsmash, Ftilt and Bair hurt and launch the opponent the same way on the final hit.

 

[The Merc]

You were implying it pretty heavily when you were saying Sensane was wrong about something, quoting the part where he said he wasn't a high tier...

Ultimately the reason people don't play Roy is because people have no reason to be attached to him and he offers no notable gameplay advantage, and he's even more worse off because his development is half a year behind most everybody else's and he costs money to play.

Roy's tournament results are still worse off then other characters around where he's placed no matter how you slice it.

Oh really? Whoops, my bad XD.

But that doesn't make Roy inheritable bad.

And maybe the reason his development is half a year behind and his tournament results are the worse is because nobody is giving him a freaking chance!!!!

Seriously, Roy is (and I keep saying this) very much like Pit and C.Falcon. Just undeveloped. However, if people started to put more time and effort into him, people would begin to see that he is not nearly as bad as people make him to be.

 

[Sensane]

Welp, b-throw combos are to laggy to work :,(.

BUUUUTTT, jab -> f-air is a true combo at high percents and kills at the ledge! Who said Roy couldn't seal a stock properly?

 

[The Merc]

Welp, b-throw combos are to laggy to work :,(.

BUUUUTTT, jab -> f-air is a true combo at high percents and kills at the ledge! Who said Roy couldn't seal a stock properly?

Yeah. We kind of new that Day 1. Sorry. I was going to tell you earlier nothing comes of B-Throw (as far as I know)

And also Jab -> Bair apparently is true too. Also Uair to Bair

 

[Koiba]

And maybe the reason his development is half a year behind and his tournament results are the worse is because nobody is giving him a freaking chance!!!!

But every lowish tier main says this
I mean, no matter how much you slice it, maybe the guy already had his chance

Seriously, Roy is (and I keep saying this) very much like Pit and C.Falcon. Just undeveloped. However, if people started to put more time and effort into him, people would begin to see that he is not nearly as bad as people make him to be.

I don't think Pit and Falcon are "under-developed" more like "under-played" and "pick Bayo or Rosa because it's a better option"

 

[The Merc]

But every lowish tier main says this
I mean, no matter how much you slice it, maybe the guy already had his chance

I've never heard any other low tier character say that.

How can you say that when no one has eve given him a chance.

I don't think Pit and Falcon are "under-developed" more like "under-played" and "pick Bayo or Rosa because it's a better option"

I was referring to Roy there.

 

[Koiba]

I've never heard any other low tier character say that.

How can you say that when no one has eve given him a chance.



I was referring to Roy there.

Woah, really?
At least a couple of the low tiers would say their character has alot of "potential" so they won't be sad and realize that their character is actually not that good



Oh my b
The way you worded the sentance sounded like you were also refering to Pit and Falcon

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I think Roy is mid tier a least he has one bad flaw so what people called MK bad but look at him before the patch Roy has potential but we have wait and see so for now chill

 

[EnGarde]

The Merc I know you want to support Roy, but this isn't really the place to do so. These people have little more than casual interest in Roy; we'll have to show them with our results over time. Roy has so much, and exploring and learning the game using him is very rewarding to me, and I hope to show people what I've learned at some point in the future.

---

Now, let's start a new topic of conversation! Does anyone else here like looking up video game remixes? I really enjoy doing that lol. Here's a good one:

Anyone else here have some good remixes on their playlists?

 

[Sensane]

Last thing I'll say about Roy: if I face Ally or Mr. R in bracket, I will go Roy for at least one game. Also, Roy is my niche character.

 

[ReRaze]

Last thing I'll say about Roy: if I face Ally or Mr. R in bracket, I will go Roy for at least one game. Also, Roy is my niche character.

I think it's a good idea to use Roy against Ally since swordies do well against mario but DO NOT USE roy against Mr.R

 

[The Merc]

Woah, really?
At least a couple of the low tiers would say their character has alot of "potential" so they won't be sad and realize that their character is actually not that good



Oh my b
The way you worded the sentance sounded like you were also refering to Pit and Falcon

Yeah, I've never heard that before ever. Well, that isn't the case with Roy.

Yeah, nah I was talking about Roy. Though it could be argued for Pit a tiny bit cause, while he does have players, it's not near the level of Sheik or Bayo

 

[Tito Maas]

Just because there are characters that people overlooked for no reason like Meta Knight doesn't mean every character is simply overlooked.

Even though there are some characters who are, like Link and Ness.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I never said that

 

[Sensane]

Waiting for OUTFOXX'D brackets like:

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Waiting for OUTFOXX'D brackets like:
View attachment 101239

Lol that what it's like waiting for Pokken to ship

 

[Koiba]

The Merc I know you want to support Roy, but this isn't really the place to do so. These people have little more than casual interest in Roy; we'll have to show them with our results over time. Roy has so much, and exploring and learning the game using him is very rewarding to me, and I hope to show people what I've learned at some point in the future.

---

Now, let's start a new topic of conversation! Does anyone else here like looking up video game remixes? I really enjoy doing that lol. Here's a good one:

Anyone else here have some good remixes on their playlists?

Remixes are dope as long as their done correctly


Y'all should check out GlitchxCity if you're into Pokemon remixes

 

[LancerStaff]

Just because there are characters that people overlooked for no reason like Meta Knight doesn't mean every character is simply overlooked.

Even though there are some characters who are, like Link and Ness.

I wouldn't say MK had no reason to be overlooked, but he was definitely still a good character early on.

Link's probably underrated a bit but I don't think Ness is since he's usually placed in top tier or close to it. IMO that's awful high for him...

 

[Sensane]

Link's probably underrated a bit but I don't think Ness is since he's usually placed in top tier or close to it. IMO that's awful high for him...

Oh?

 

[Koiba]

Oh and on the topic of good remixes EnGarde I absolutely love this

The music and the artwork is SUPER bless
Fav part of the music is 9:32 Fountain of Dreams - w -

And the channel the music is from
https://www.youtube.com/user/amanbow/featured

 

[The Merc]

Just because there are characters that people overlooked for no reason like Meta Knight doesn't mean every character is simply overlooked.

Even though there are some characters who are, like Link and Ness.

Actually people did have a reason to look over him tho. Cause everyone thought (THOUGHT) he was bad from the nerfs. Now look at him

Also, i really don't think you can say Ness is over looked. And Link is a bit 50/50. I mean, he has a lot of plays, but no one seems to pay attention to him really.

The Merc I know you want to support Roy, but this isn't really the place to do so. These people have little more than casual interest in Roy; we'll have to show them with our results over time. Roy has so much, and exploring and learning the game using him is very rewarding to me, and I hope to show people what I've learned at some point in the future.

True true

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Man wish pits side B was faster I was just playing a friend and I went for a side B and got smack in the face with a Fsmash can it at least be as fast as caption falcons side B his is stronger, faster, and less laggy this sucks