Social Skyworld Hub - "Soaring through the Skys"

[TMNTSSB4]

Most of my amiibo are actually pretty common. My Pit was a lucky one.

Pit is always a lucky one. Bet it'll be worse when Palutena and Pittoo are released.

 

[gByron]

I now think he is fine but I still want
-slightly better aerial movement
-nair does 2% more
-consistent super armor on upperdash arm
-better pivot grab range
-guardian orbitars come out faster

 

[Strider_123]

i thinks hes fine as he is but if i could pick:
- Slightly faster startup for arrows
- guardian orbitars come out faster
- consistent super armor on upperdash arm

thats all i can think of. All of pits moves are viable even without these changes though. it does bother me though when, say rob does his neutral aerial and sometimes the Arm goes through and other times it breaks my super armor.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

There is no way a move as safe as Pit's dsmash should be lethal in any way uncharged. Also most alternating dsmashes
are weaker in the front.

Most back throws don't kill at 90% but Ness' does. Just because most characters attack behaves a certain way doesn't mean that should be a rule for all characters.

Pit is only balanced in that he is mid tier. Pretty much everyone agrees on that. And yet people keep saying he's "balanced." The goal of smash is to make all characters equally viable using varied strategies. Therefore one must concede that only one of the following statements is true:

1. Pit needs buffs.

Or

2. Pit is on par with the best characters in the game.

You cannot say that Pit is both balanced (needs no buffs or nerfs) and mid tier because in doing so you are saying that you want a game that is not balanced. Which maybe that is what you want but that's another debate altogether. However, I think we all want a game that enlists a huge cast of characters in which all are more or less viable when used to their respective strengths.

 

[meleebrawler]

Most back throws don't kill at 90% but Ness' does. Just because most characters attack behaves a certain way doesn't mean that should be a rule for all characters.

Has Brawl Meta Knight taught you nothing? Besides, even normal grabs can be punished.

Pit is only balanced in that he is mid tier. Pretty much everyone agrees on that. And yet people keep saying he's "balanced." The goal of smash is to make all characters equally viable using varied strategies. Therefore one must concede that only one of the following statements is true:

1. Pit needs buffs.

Or

2. Pit is on par with the best characters in the game.

You cannot say that Pit is both balanced (needs no buffs or nerfs) and mid tier because in doing so you are saying that you want a game that is not balanced. Which maybe that is what you want but that's another debate altogether. However, I think we all want a game that enlists a huge cast of characters in which all are more or less viable when used to their respective strengths.

The only way to really achieve balance is to have all the characters be very similar. Your last phrase, at least
for now, describes Smash 4 pretty well, barring a few select characters.

Just because he may not be at the same level as the top tiers doesn't mean he can't hang with or beat them.

 

[Chaleb]

I'm not sure where this "Pit is Mid-Tier" notion comes from but I think Pit is right about where Sonic is. I just went to a local tourney and absolutely wrecked everyone there with Pit.

The thing holding Pit back is players, we need more people besides Nairo playing him.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I'm not sure where this "Pit is Mid-Tier" notion comes from but I think Pit is right about where Sonic is. I just went to a local tourney and absolutely wrecked everyone there with Pit.

The thing holding Pit back is players, we need more people besides Nairo playing him.

Your anecdotal evidence does nothing to validate your point. Anyone could "wreck" a local tourney with any character if the competition isn't tough. Read threads that talk about Pit's placement in the tiers is. Pretty much everyone agrees he is mid tier.

I'm not making the argument that Pit is bad. But if we want a balanced game then he needs buffs. (Or characters like Shiek, Sonic, Diddy, Luigi, and others need nerfs) he doesn't need as much attention as Charizard, for example. But when you play a highly skilled Sonic, Shiek, Diddy, Zero Suit player you can't help but notice how much harder you have to work than your opponent.

 

[gByron]

He is very underused for some reason. Pit is one of the upper tier characters with insane baiting game. I think he is the best fighter out there when you eliminate any character with boringly good options like ness back throw luigi combo or any diddy a move. Hes by far the best sword character. Eventhubs put him on 30th rank and says he is the 46th most played character. Hey pit is very good and fun

 

[Chaleb]

Your anecdotal evidence does nothing to validate your point. Anyone could "wreck" a local tourney with any character if the competition isn't tough. Read threads that talk about Pit's placement in the tiers is. Pretty much everyone agrees he is mid tier.

I'm not making the argument that Pit is bad. But if we want a balanced game then he needs buffs. (Or characters like Shiek, Sonic, Diddy, Luigi, and others need nerfs) he doesn't need as much attention as Charizard, for example. But when you play a highly skilled Sonic, Shiek, Diddy, Zero Suit player you can't help but notice how much harder you have to work than your opponent.

Never said that me destroying in a local instantly makes me right. I'm just expressing my opinion here, because Pit really has very few flaws (just look at his frame data, it's very good), and it's more the case of lack of knowledge and player base on the character.

I'm not inclined to take what you say very seriously when you mention ZSS, that is a character we're straight up better than. The myth is that ZSS is anywhere near top tier, and that myth mostly exists because a hell of a lot of people play her (don't just take my word for it, a lot of top players like zero don't put her near the top tier much at all)

 

[Wintropy]

Tiers are an abstract concept at the best of times. There is absolutely no objective manner in which to verify who's "better" - every character has their strengths and weaknesses, and Pit is no exception.

I would be happy if he got buffed, very happy indeed, but I think he's fine as he is as well. I do feel like I have to work harder against certain opponents than others may have to, but that's part of the charm for me; the feeling of triumph when I overcome a difficult adversary is worth the effort it takes.

 

[Tito Maas]

Pit is underused because he's mid-tier and doesn't have an advantage over the characters above him despite matching up relatively well against everyone.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

Tiers are an abstract concept at the best of times. There is absolutely no objective manner in which to verify who's "better" - every character has their strengths and weaknesses, and Pit is no exception.

I would be happy if he got buffed, very happy indeed, but I think he's fine as he is as well. I do feel like I have to work harder against certain opponents than others may have to, but that's part of the charm for me; the feeling of triumph when I overcome a difficult adversary is worth the effort it takes.

Just because tiers are abstract, doesn't mean they aren't obvious. Are they subjective? Yes. But I am inclined to agree with the consensus of the community. Is that consensus wrong sometimes? Yes. But in general it is accurate. Almost everybody here has said that Pit is more or less mid tier even if they don't think he needs buffs.

I'm like you, I like using a character that isn't in the top tier. I refuse to use characters I think are OP. Probably 95% of matches I lose I feel like I could have won if I'd played smarter. However, Every so often I lose a match to a great player using a top tier character and I feel like there was really nothing I could have done. The fun of using Pit is completely gone in these matches and with it my motivation to play the game. I've invested so much time into Pit but I will never be able to compete with great players because I'm using the wrong character. These matches are what make Pit's weaknesses come into full perspective. The offensive tactics available to certain characters make Pit's look terrible. "Oh but Pit is a bait/punish character" EVERY character is a bait/punish character but some also have approach options and nasty combos. All good players play the bait/punish game regardless of who they use!

As a community we need to advocate for a balanced cast. Balance is what keeps the game interesting, lengthens its lifespan, and can make Smash 4 unique from its predecessors. I don't want to lose because my favorite character is inferior and I don't want to have to develop God-like skills to compensate and defeat my opponent. I want to win or lose based on how well I use my character to his/her strengths.

 

[Wintropy]

Just because tiers are abstract, doesn't mean they aren't obvious. Are they subjective? Yes. But I am inclined to agree with the consensus of the community. Is that consensus wrong sometimes? Yes. But in general it is accurate. Almost everybody here has said that Pit is more or less mid tier.

I, um, I wasn't contradicting you. I was responding to the earlier claim that Pit is "high tier" because he can beat high tier characters - which, y'know, any character can do if the player is competent with that character.

I'm like you, I like using a character that isn't in the top tier. I refuse to use characters I think are OP. Probably 95% of matches I lose I feel like I could have won if I'd played smarter. However, Every so often I lose a match to a great player using a top tier character and I feel like there was really nothing I could have done. These matches are what make Pit's weaknesses come into full perspective. The offensive tactics available to certain characters make Pit's look terrible. "Oh but Pit is a bait/punish character" EVERY character is a bait/punish character but some also have approach options and nasty combos. All good players play the bait/punish game and this effectively neutralizes Pit's ability to bait/punish.

I think Pit's issue is that he's a mixed bag. He's kind of okay at everything, not really excelling at anything. He's average - like, aggressively average. He's more of a Mario than Mario himself. Which is great, in that he can hold his own against everybody relatively well, but he doesn't have any outright favourable matchups either. He's about as mid-tier as you can get, and I think that, while he's one of the easiest characters to pick up and play, he's one of the toughest to master. There's no forcing your way through with naff tactics and overpowered fluff. You have to put the work in and make him work for you.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I edited my post to further elaborate. If we can all acknowledge Pit has shortcomings, why don't we want buffs? That's what I can't understand.

 

[meleebrawler]

I edited my post to further elaborate. If we can all acknowledge Pit has shortcomings, why don't we want buffs? That's what I can't understand.

It's a slippery slope. If Pit gets noticeable buffs despite few people saying much of him other characters will be clamoring
much harder for buffs on other characters who may or may not be deserving of them.

 

[Attila_]

1. Decreased end lag on arrows
I'd like to be able to follow up if I bait an air dodge into ground.
2. Decreased startup or end lag on orbiters
Don't need both, just one. Make it a safe shield or a good reflector
3. An aerial that can kill
Bair should have increased knock back; pit is only scary if he can grab opponents, so they currently have nothing to fear in the air.
4. Make fsmash connect better
I'm sick of people falling out

Pit would easily be top tier with those changes alone.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

It's a slippery slope. If Pit gets noticeable buffs despite few people saying much of him other characters will be clamoring
much harder for buffs on other characters who may or may not be deserving of them.

Other characters need buffs. Actually, most characters need buffs. It's not a slippery slope, it's progress. I would rather developers adopt a trial and error approach with patches than just have us all shrug our shoulders and accept that it's impossible to make a balanced game.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Attention All of Skyworld!

There's a new Conquest: June 5th till June 12th!
Series Showdown Part 2!
Kirby vs Kid Icarus vs Guest Stars!

We have the Kirby characters , I don't need to remind anyone how many players consider these the best characters in the game
And we have the Guest characters: , easily the most hyped characters in the game! Even players that suck will gravitate toward and pick these characters out of sheer happiness to see them in Smash.

And this is where we come in! The odds are stacked against us, but Pit and Palutena have never given up in a time like this, and neither has Dark Pit!

Your mission is simple: Go Online into With Anyone, pick For Fun or For Glory, whichever your preference, pick Pit, Palutena, or Dark Pit, when the match starts, check if it contributes to a Conquest and rack up the KOs!
Even if you lose, you'll still contribute 1 very appreciated point!

And even afterwards, destroy any Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Sonic, Mega Man or Pac Man you come across! You don't know who's fighting their conquest at that moment and we can't take any chances.

Also, do your part, every fight you're in for the coming week, be nice to any Pit, Palutena or even Dark Pit you meet, they may very likely be on our side.


For Palutena!
For Viridi!
For the Kid Icarus series!

All Troops, Move Out!!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Attention All of Skyworld!

There's a new Conquest: June 5th till June 12th!
Series Showdown Part 2!
Kirby vs Kid Icarus vs Guest Stars!

We have the Kirby characters , I don't need to remind anyone how many players consider these the best characters in the game
And we have the Guest characters: , easily the most hyped characters in the game! Even players that suck will gravitate toward and pick these characters out of sheer happiness to see them in Smash.

And this is where we come in! The odds are stacked against us, but Pit and Palutena have never given up in a time like this, and neither has Dark Pit!

Your mission is simple: Go Online into With Anyone, pick For Fun or For Glory, whichever your preference, pick Pit, Palutena, or Dark Pit, when the match starts, check if it contributes to a Conquest and rack up the KOs!
Even if you lose, you'll still contribute 1 very appreciated point!

And even afterwards, destroy any Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Sonic, Mega Man or Pac Man you come across! You don't know who's fighting their conquest at that moment and we can't take any chances.

Also, do your part, every fight you're in for the coming week, be nice to any Pit, Palutena or even Dark Pit you meet, they may very likely be on our side.

For Palutena!
For Viridi!
For the Kid Icarus series!
All Troops, Move Out!!

1.Kid Icarus Hype!
2. Who won the last Conquest?
3. Pit Pit, this is it.

 

[LousyTactician]

1.Kid Icarus Hype!
2. Who won the last Conquest?
3. Pit Pit, this is it.

The last contest was won by the Villager (Team balloon operator).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The last contest was won by the Villager (Team balloon operator).

Yes, glad I chose him over the others. Hopefully Kid Icarus can beat Kirby and The 3rd Parties this week.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Yes, glad I chose him over the others. Hopefully Kid Icarus can beat Kirby and The 3rd Parties this week.

He only can with Your help.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

He only can with Your help.

If I didn't do it already, I would. Now I got a wait till tomorrow(beat a
DeDeDe for the first time thanks to Pit/Dark Pit, and a laggy Dr. Mario).

 

[Wintropy]

Anyone have any advice on fighting Mario?

Grumble mutter plumber tools grumble mutter.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Anyone have any advice on fighting Mario?

Grumble mutter plumber tools grumble mutter.

If you're at the ledge and Mario(or anyone in general) tries to recover, use Guardian Orbitars to block it, making them move a bit faraway from the ledge, and side smash them. Also try to not let him grab you with dodges and Palutena Bow(BONUS: play Kid Icarus Uprising and talk about how op Pit is >:D).

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Anyone have any advice on fighting Mario?

Grumble mutter plumber tools grumble mutter.

Guardian Orbitars and Reflect?

 

[meleebrawler]

Anyone have any advice on fighting Mario?

Grumble mutter plumber tools grumble mutter.

Stay light on your feet so that he doesn't lock you down into your shield with his fast moves.

Shoot him with guided arrows if he likes to rain fireballs from the air.

You have disjoints which are great for challenging Mario in lots of situations, make sure your spacing is on point.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

(BONUS: play Kid Icarus Uprising and talk about how op Pit is >:D).

Mario vs Bowser

Pit vs Hades

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Mario vs Bowser

Pit vs Hades

Ganondorf got nothing on Hades. That goes for every Nintendo villian(only to make Kratos feel good about himself).

 

[ShadowSlashX]

Typically my matches against Mario players are extremely read based, with a lot of baiting. Spacing is of course, very important. I think Pit loses easily within Mario's grab/jab range. Properly spaced auto cancel fairs are prolly what I use most. Ftilt also out ranges most of Mario's moves. I haven't faced a good Mario in a bit tho, so I really shouldn't be giving any advice.

Btw, I defeated a Meta Knight as Dark Pit on FG today and realized that this conquest is going on. Let's win it!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Typically my matches against Mario players are extremely read based, with a lot of baiting. Spacing is of course, very important. I think Pit loses easily within Mario's grab/jab range. Properly spaced auto cancel fairs are prolly what I use most. Ftilt also out ranges most of Mario's moves. I haven't faced a good Mario in a bit tho, so I really shouldn't be giving any advice.

Btw, I defeated a Meta Knight as Dark Pit on FG today and realized that this conquest is going on. Let's win it!

It's smart to bait them, especially when they try to recover and get hit with a side smash. Even better when you hit Mario(or anyone in general) with an upperdash and scream out Shoryken. Also, continue to support our Pitty family(and watch out from Reapers/Ornes).

 

[Wintropy]

Thanks guys! Mazza has been giving me a lot of trouble recently, it's good to get some advice on the matchup. :3

Now if I could just figure out how to counter Ness, we'd be golden.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Thanks guys! Mazza has been giving me a lot of trouble recently, it's good to get some advice on the matchup. :3

Now if I could just figure out how to counter Ness, we'd be golden.

Ness is a punk, spamming pk fire over and over is so annoying. If Ness tries to use his recobery off stage, use Guardian Orbitars to push him farter from the ledge just to be a jerk.

 

[Wintropy]

Ness is a punk, spamming pk fire over and over is so annoying. If Ness tries to use his recobery off stage, use Guardian Orbitars to push him farter from the ledge just to be a jerk.

Actually, any good Ness player I fight is very sparing with PK Fire and f-air. What gets me is a combination of n-air, tilts, f-smash and PK Thunder.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Actually, any good Ness player I fight is very sparing with PK Fire and f-air. What gets me is a combination of n-air, tilts, f-smash and PK Thunder.

No Ness player never attempts to grab you and b-thow though, but good Ness players still spam PK Thunder when you're offstage(like they don't know how to play or something). Good thing no Pit/Dark Pit player spams anything or goes overboard with stuff.

 

[Wintropy]

No Ness player never attempts to grab you and b-thow though, but good Ness players still spam PK Thunder when you're offstage(like they don't know how to play or something). Good thing no Pit/Dark Pit player spams anything or goes overboard with stuff.

A good Ness will spam PK Thunder to edgeguard because it's incredibly effective if you're not prepared for it. There's a marked contrast between spamming moves for its own sake and applying a useful tactic in abundance.

My issue with Ness is, at its core, similar to my issue with Mario: he's a tiny target with great aerials and combo potential, and his projectile game makes it difficult to approach. He can absorb our arrows if he's at an adequate distance, and arrows are almost useless up close. PK Fire makes approaching difficult, and while we outrange him with most of our moves, he's a lot faster and can pressure with shorthop n-air and dash attack. The only naked advantage we have over him is our ability to gimp him with Orbies, though even that can be risky in itself. I just think it's a tough matchup overall - I'd even go so far as to say it's our hardest.

EDIT: I'm using my brother for reference, incidentally. I have fought many Nesses, but none come close to his level of expertise.

 

[ShadowSlashX]

A good Ness will spam PK Thunder to edgeguard because it's incredibly effective if you're not prepared for it. There's a marked contrast between spamming moves for its own sake and applying a useful tactic in abundance.

My issue with Ness is, at its core, similar to my issue with Mario: he's a tiny target with great aerials and combo potential, and his projectile game makes it difficult to approach. He can absorb our arrows if he's at an adequate distance, and arrows are almost useless up close. PK Fire makes approaching difficult, and while we outrange him with most of our moves, he's a lot faster and can pressure with shorthop n-air and dash attack. The only naked advantage we have over him is our ability to gimp him with Orbies, though even that can be risky in itself. I just think it's a tough matchup overall - I'd even go so far as to say it's our hardest.

EDIT: I'm using my brother for reference, incidentally. I have fought many Nesses, but none come close to his level of expertise.

I think the small target factor gives me some trouble too... A lot of Ness' moves have a deceptive disjoint as well and I end up messing up my spacing and eating hits to the face. I play a very grab heavy game against Ness, and I've had much less trouble with it since I implemented pivot grabs more often. I don't know anyone that plays Ness so I don't have much experience avoiding his combos or the punishable moves.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

A good Ness will spam PK Thunder to edgeguard because it's incredibly effective if you're not prepared for it. There's a marked contrast between spamming moves for its own sake and applying a useful tactic in abundance.

My issue with Ness is, at its core, similar to my issue with Mario: he's a tiny target with great aerials and combo potential, and his projectile game makes it difficult to approach. He can absorb our arrows if he's at an adequate distance, and arrows are almost useless up close. PK Fire makes approaching difficult, and while we outrange him with most of our moves, he's a lot faster and can pressure with shorthop n-air and dash attack. The only naked advantage we have over him is our ability to gimp him with Orbies, though even that can be risky in itself. I just think it's a tough matchup overall - I'd even go so far as to say it's our hardest.

EDIT: I'm using my brother for reference, incidentally. I have fought many Nesses, but none come close to his level of expertise.

Most Ness players just enjoy PK Fire.

 

[Wintropy]

Most Ness players just enjoy PK Fire.

Most, but they're easy enough to deal with.

As with any spam-happy opponent, just bait it out and punish 'em. Easy win. Ness experts know you expect that and will punish you hard for thinking it's going to be a fair fight.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Most, but they're easy enough to deal with.

As with any spam-happy opponent, just bait it out and punish 'em. Easy win. Ness experts know you expect that and will punish you hard for thinking it's going to be a fair fight.

The only time I had a real problem was yesterday when th is one Ness player did nothing but PK Fire, grabs, and B-Throw 10 matches in a row(just because I wasn't Rosalina). Worse than For Glory Links and Falcons.