Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

How could they be represented in smash? the only thing i see happening is a stage or something

Music
Special Ampharos and Wigglytuff Spirits
Stage

 

[Deleted member]

So since a season 2 of DLC is probably in the cards since Nintendo is going to hit that 20 million goal. I've been thinking maybe Spirits don't deconfirm characters. No is kinda weird but that might not even mean anything.

The thing about P L A N T is that it REEKS of "character who wasn't finished in time so was saved as free DLC"

Why would they make a Piranha Plant Spirit if the Spirits team thought it was gonna be a fighter in the base game? That's my thought process at least.

 

[Opossum]

The main thing weird about the Piranha Plant spirit debacle is that Petey Piranha's spirit evolves from the Nipper Plant. Part of me thinks Piranha Plant was going to have a spirit that evolved into Petey, but was swapped out later on for the Nipper Plant.

 

[Gentlepanda]

How could they be represented in smash? the only thing i see happening is a stage or something

GROVYLE MAKES THE CUT

 

[Galactic Gecko]

GROVYLE KICKS SOME GRASS

 

[Pakky]

The main thing weird about the Piranha Plant spirit debacle is that Petey Piranha's spirit evolves from the Nipper Plant. Part of me thinks Piranha Plant was going to have a spirit that evolved into Petey, but was swapped out later on for the Nipper Plant.

Now that does make sense.

Maybe be this was a real 'middle of the road' decision as I can't see them not including multiple spirits for various plant variants if he wasn't going to be a character.

Also the Petey from Brawl looks like he was repurposed from WOL to be a final smash.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm sure that if we get a season 2, then all bets are off.

Since this set of DLC was decided before release, it makes sense that Spirits/Assists/etc. disconfirm. They could have just dummied out or switched the .pngs. The Nipper Plant -> Petey is a good point - that's never been done in canon.

But a second season? I think that anyone could be valid. Heck, even if they decided to do bonus echoes, then Spirits could be valid since they'd have been planned after release. Especially if there's a way they can just sawp the .png of a spirit but keep the battle/effects the same.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Before this thread meets its end on page 9999 I want to say one thing

I only JUST realized that Cloud’s 8th palette is a subtle reference to the Miss Cloud dress

Is it now?

 

[Masked Marshmallow]

So, this happened at the Square Enix thread...

The image is so strong that I can't even imagine it...

 

[Gentlepanda]

Now that does make sense.

Maybe be this was a real 'middle of the road' decision as I can't see them not including multiple spirits for various plant variants if he wasn't going to be a character.

Also the Petey from Brawl looks like he was repurposed from WOL to be a final smash.

yo but what if we get a new boss to fill every new fighter's classic mode that eventually lead into a boss battles mode, like Petey for PP and Kamoshida for Joker

 

[Deleted member]

Dont you do this to me.

Dont put this evil on me

I mean, it's either him or Xion.

 

[Galactic Gecko]

what if every dlc fighter gets a new sub-area dedicated to them in world of light?

 

[Deleted member]

God I hope we get a second season of DLC, but I think the chances are pretty slim.

 

[mbvswb]

Is there any reason to expect a season 2 of dlc? Iirc no Nintendo game has gotten multiple seasons of DLC and Sakurai seemed pretty set on 5(or 6 including plant) being the max.

 

[Masked Marshmallow]

God I hope we get a second season of DLC, but I think the chances are pretty slim.

If Ultimate sells well enough, like 10 million copies, I think it's possible.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Is there any reason to expect a season 2 of dlc? Iirc no Nintendo game has gotten multiple seasons of DLC and Sakurai seemed pretty set on 5(or 6 including plant) being the max.

Even the top sellers like Mario Kart 8 aren't getting any more DLC. Multiple season DLC just isn't how Nintendo rolls.

 

[Deleted member]

If Ultimate sells well enough, like 10 million copies, I think it's possible.

Didn't I hear that Ultimate is selling close 20 million (Damn!) copies? Or am I remembering?

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, I was kind of thinking that the Spirits with a lot more detail to their art (despite not having a recent game for that detail to be warranted) were good signs of possible DLC. Main example of that is Geno. His Spirit looks really high quality despite not really having a game in years, so it seemed like it was done from scratch rather than some fo the others which are basically sprites form their original games.
Just a theory though. A game theory.

 

[Masked Marshmallow]

Even the top sellers like Mario Kart 8 aren't getting any more DLC. Multiple season DLC just isn't how Nintendo rolls.

They could open an exception for Ultimate, there's a first time for everything.

Didn't I hear that Ultimate is selling close 20 million (Damn!) copies? Or am I remembering?

I don't think so, but maybe by the end of this year.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Even the top sellers like Mario Kart 8 aren't getting any more DLC. Multiple season DLC just isn't how Nintendo rolls.

But Mario Kart 8 GOT multiple seasons of DLC.

In fact, they just added more stuff to it, like, 6 months ago.

Main example of that is Geno. His Spirit looks really high quality despite not really having a game in years, so it seemed like it was done from scratch rather than some fo the others which are basically sprites form their original games.

Geno's spirit is literally just his character art from Super Mario RPG. Almost every spirit in the game is from artwork, not game sprites.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

So since a season 2 of DLC is probably in the cards since Nintendo is going to hit that 20 million goal. I've been thinking maybe Spirits don't deconfirm characters. No spirits are kinda weird but that might not even mean anything.

Despite what other people have said, I always felt that it meant SOMETHING. I mean, they even went so far as to have the NIPPER PLANT spirit evolve into Petey Piranha, which, if Piranha Plant wasn't a DLC character, they probably would have just made a Piranha Plant spirit to do that. So it definitely meant, at least, that they put that one specific spirit on the backburner because they knew Piranha Plant was coming out shortly. So that may not be good news for the FIRST season, but I'm sure for the second season (if it comes) all bets are off.

 

[Deleted member]

Is there any reason to expect a season 2 of dlc? Iirc no Nintendo game has gotten multiple seasons of DLC and Sakurai seemed pretty set on 5(or 6 including plant) being the max.

Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon, both being large multiplayer games, got a lot of DLC over time (some free some paid) even if it wasn't in a "season" format

If the demand is there, and Ultimate sells well enough, then I think it's a safe bet.

 

[Opossum]

They could open an exception for Ultimate, there's a first time for everything.

I don't think so, but maybe by the end of this year.

The mindset of "Smash is the exception" generally hasn't worked out well in the past.

Hell, it was used to promote Box Theory skepticism.

 

[Wyoming]

If Ultimate sells well enough, like 10 million copies, I think it's possible.

Based on their reports the game is on pace to outsell Brawl.

I think they'll make a decision on wave 2 around autumn time. I'll be the first to say that not doing any other waves would be a very moronic decision financially. Sakurai may not want to be involved but he is a contractor and they own the IP. Ideally Sakurai would pass the keys to someone he trusts at Namco in this scenario but I find that unlikely given one of his latest interviews. That's the only reason I believe people doubt more waves and it is an easy work around but I don't see that kind of ruthelessness from Nintendo happening.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Guys, I just found this leaked video of Smash 6's Adventure Mode!

 

[Gentlepanda]

In fact, they just added more stuff to it, like, 6 months ago.

sure but a BOTW skin for Link and a new bike != 16 new tracks, 8 new karts and 7 new characters

 

[Deleted member]

I know people would hate it. A lot pf people, probably. But, in all honesty...no trolling intended...I'd like to see Boo/King Boo as a playable character somehow. I would have preferred him over Piranha Plant (though I'm still pleased with that reveal) since he's actually been in a lot of the Mario Party games for some time. Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Party...and he's been a staple since...what...Mario 3? That's a really long time.

 

[DarthEnderX]

sure but a BOTW skin for Link and a new bike != 16 new tracks, 8 new karts and 7 new characters

True. But if it means we're still getting, like, echo fighters, 4 years after the game launches, then I'm down with that.

 

[Deleted member]

Uggggh I have someone replying to my Twitter posts, spreading the blasphemy that Melee is somehow better than Ultimate
Should I block him?

 

[Gyrom8]

Even the top sellers like Mario Kart 8 aren't getting any more DLC. Multiple season DLC just isn't how Nintendo rolls.

In the Wii U era for sure, but I feel that under it's current direction, Nintendo might be going for multiple season DLC as this quote suggests:

"We need continuous growth. We must keep releasing new software. That includes DLCs and other contents for big titles that are already out. And more focus on online play. Lastly, more genres and diverse games to draw in people who don't currently play on Switch." — Shuntaro Furukawa, Nintendo's Current CEO (Source: https://twitter.com/ynakamura56/status/1057210896911454208)

On the same basis, we could be getting a season 2 of Ultimate DLC: I agree that Nintendo will find someone else if Sakurai isn't willing

 

[ClaTheBae]

Uggggh I have someone replying to my Twitter posts, spreading the blasphemy that Melee is somehow better than Ultimate
Should I block him?

I mean it is a matter of opinion. And there are extremely valid reasons to believe melee is better.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean it is a matter of opinion. And there are extremely valid reasons to believe melee is better.

melee ain't even a smash game though how are they remotely comparable

 

[Deleted member]

I was just lurking into the geno thread until I saw Fatmanonice (popeye) said this about the brave character it’s NOT a leak it’s what he thinks with its stats

So, I'm in a much better mood today because I was surprised yesterday by my University not only liking my idea of a school sponsored competitive gaming club (think Smash tournaments paid for by government money) but also wanting me to be the staff adviser for it. That said, I'll entertain the idea I've seen people volleyballing around about Brave actually being Geno for fun. I'm entertaining the idea so, whatever, put this in your next cringe compilation if you want; **** you, I'm doing this and, now, for the feature presentation... A Toon Link sized character that's floaty, slippery, average speed, slightly heavy, with good low but not too low to the ground jump stats like Villager and Cloud. Going off my thoughts that the character currently has the stats of a mid range projectile zoner or short range aerial zoner, let's take a look at the main argument that people have for it not being Geno.

"It can't be Geno because Brave's too heavy and too slow."

For reference, Brave is about 25th in weight and 36th in speed.

Brave is slighly lighter than Megaman but not much heavier than Cloud and Mario. If this were Geno, what would explain this weight? If you look at the weight attributes, most of the projectile zoners in the game, especially those with multiple projectiles, are within extremes. A very common characteristic is them being slower, whether they are light or heavy. The more long range options (especially projectiles) usually the slower and/or lighter they are. Olimar is 50th in speed and tied for 68th for weight. Zelda is 70th in speed and 62nd for weight. The Belmonts are 64th in speed and tied for 11th for weight. Snake is 54th in speed and 16th in weight. Mii Gunner is tied for 18th in weight and 73rd in speed. You get the idea.

Mid range is typically more balanced. Pac-Man is tied for 42nd in speed and 36th for weight. Ness is 51st in speed and tied for 40th in weight. Lucas is 46th in speed and tied with Ness in weight. Megaman is 52nd in speed and 24th in weight. ROB is 38th in speed and 16th in weight.

The fastest projectile zoner is Toon Link and he ranks 24th in speed, being the same weight as Palutena for 49th in weight (who ranks 15th in speed if you want to count her as a projectile zoner). Of the projectile zoners in the game, there are five characters above dead center in running speed, Paluntena (if you count her), Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Young Link, and Duck Hunt.

Weight: 50th Speed: 15th
50th, 24th
32nd, 27th
56th, 36th
60th, 31st

So who all falls below this line then?



With Brave being roughly the same speed as Young Link, he'd still be top 5 fastest projectile zoners, out of 24 who fight with multiple projectiles. Not exactly blazing fast but still pretty fast for a hypothetical gameplay style. So, by this analysis, they would be 25th in weight and 36th in speed so pretty balanced in basic stats, further emphasized that they would be the 12th heaviest of the 24 here.

Now, here's where things get interesting: what about Brave's air speed? ... they're actually the fastest of the 24 by a considerable margin. Even on the actual tier list, Brave is a whopping 7-12 characters faster than the next fastest in the air which is Duck Hunt. If Brave were a mid range projectile zoner, this would be really good. Sure, they're not winning Olympic races on the ground but in the air, they're almost top 10 overall. Throw in the fact that they have a short hop as good as Villager and Cloud and a fall speed as good as Roy and you have a fairly intimidating character. We may not know the specifics of the aerial lag but let's go back to the five I mentioned earlier and consider traditional spacing and combo starting aerials:

Young Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Toon Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 11 frames

Palutena
Nair: 12 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Wii Fit Trainer
Nair: 8 frames
Fair: 8 frames

Duck Hunt
Nair: 10 frames
Fair: 9 frames

For reference, Roy/Chrom's nair is 9 frames and fair is 8. Mario's nair is 6 and Mario's just a touch faster than Brave on the ground but they're equals in the air and we all know the wacky **** Mario can pull off. If they can zone like Duck Hunt or Toon Link and move in the air like Mario or Inkling, this is a character that breaks into your house and gets permission from you and your wife to **** her on the kitchen table within 5 minutes of making eye contact and you'd be honored to put it on Snapchat. This is a deceptively fast character despite the balance on the surface.

In conclusion, I kind of think this frame would work well for Geno because, just like his character, looks can be deceiving. Sure, the stats are balanced but get him short hopping around (Tokyo City like a big playground) and give him equally good projectile options as Young Link, this is a nimble character that would be a defensive giant in competitive play. Honestly, with these kinds of stats, you'd wish he was slower.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

what if every dlc fighter gets a new sub-area dedicated to them in world of light?

Could be pocket dimensions after a season is finished. Idk, we’ll wait and see but it would be neat

 

[Deleted member]

And there are extremely valid reasons to believe melee is better.

Only if you're an idiot

 

[Deleted member]

Only if you're an idiot

Well, that's certainly not putting you in a better position than him.

 

[Wyoming]

Only if you're an idiot

Well that's certainly not childish.

Being real the most toxic I've seen from the "Melee v Ultimate wars" has come from the latter.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, that's certainly not putting you in a better position than him.

I suppose you're right
But seriously who in their right mind still thinks Melee is the best Smash

 

[Opossum]

I know people would hate it. A lot pf people, probably. But, in all honesty...no trolling intended...I'd like to see Boo/King Boo as a playable character somehow. I would have preferred him over Piranha Plant (though I'm still pleased with that reveal) since he's actually been in a lot of the Mario Party games for some time. Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Party...and he's been a staple since...what...Mario 3? That's a really long time.

With all those disclaimers I thought you were gonna say something bad.

King Boo would be great.

 

[Galactic Gecko]

tbh melee is not THAT good as the fanbase puts it