Sonic Spin Dash Dance? as requested... CONFIRMED!

[Lonewolf10787]

Call it lack of going online often, perhaps-- or playing SSBB in the confines of my home with the occasional challenger. Either way, I'm still pretty good with the advanced tactics... except one.

Sonic has a dash dance... while spinning?
I've successfully pulled this off, and will detail how it's performed.


Has anybody seen or confirmed this? I was playing a strangers match, and the guy started spin dashing in very tight, controlled bursts left and right-- looked remarkably like a dash dance, but while spin dashing. Craziest thing I've ever seen.

Can anybody point me in the right direction here or confirm this?


No more waiting! The sonic dash dance, as observed above, is confirmed!

This setup has only been performed successfully using a standard Wiimote/Nunchuck mapping with default configurations. Z is equal to shield.

I found two ways to do this, and both have some pretty sick benifits. I'm dubbing the following OBSERVED method the SNBDD-- Sonic Narrow Band Dash Dance-- unless anyone has a better idea.

The NB jets back and forth VERY quickly and has a directional preference. It's more akin to canceling than it is to dash dancing, but nonetheless, the effect is the same.

Techniques used:
1. Shield Cancel
2. Down Special
3. Down Smash
4. Spin Dash Cancel
5. Dash Smash

I'll be giving thread references when I'm not updating on my laptop.

First, initiate a spin dash in the direction you want to go. Release, and tap Z a few frames after the release to cancel the spin dash but maintain your momentum. Hold down and the direction you're facing, and directly after cancelling, release the stick and *flick* down again to down smash. Don't charge it, just release it. You'll still be heading in one direction, but sonic will jet back and forth. On his 2nd pass, press and hold shield (it won't go up until the end of the smash) and the direction you're heading. Sonic will attempt to roll, but dash in the opposing direction, initiate a dash roll and immediately cancel with shield, attempt to roll to the new direction and in mid roll initiate a spindash by holding down and b before the roll initiates.

You'll be at your start point again, just keep canceling the spin dash in one direction and you'll maintain momentum. The repeated cancels LOOK like the spin dash, even FEEL like the spindash at certain points. All it is is sonic's down smash sliding with the dash momentum, a few clever cancels, and you had a narrowband spindash dance.

Before you tear apart the name, I'll update this post later with what the SWBDD is (Sonic Wide Band Dash Dance), which is the absurdly complex method described below. Both have advantages, both have disadvantages, but both of them take the dash dance to an all new offensive level.

This would be as stated underneath, the SWBDD. I call this one the Wide Band because it has more of a "sweep", as it never relies on the down smash. Its MUCH harder to pull off, but the payoff is a drastic increase in momentum, and a pretty wild skew of direction. You can be facing left, but following this "looping" pattern, can launch in *ANY OF THE 4 DIRECTIONS* (yes, including down if you FF) while retaining momentum.

For obvious reasons, I prefer the SNBDD, as its what I've been trying to discover-- but someone might find use for the WB anyway.

1. Charge the main dash (down B) ONCE (This is key, the initial acceleration cannot be too great or you'll get too much "pop")

2. Release, and in the frame where sonic's spin starts skewing from a circle to whichever direction you choose, immediately tap A, hold down and angle in the opposing direction...

3. ...Aerial dodge, and use sonic's SIDE B in the first opposing direction. This all has to be done VERY quickly, in the first rising frames. Sonic's aerial dodge should be done practically milliseconds after leaving the ground with his rising headbutt.

4. Things begin to get tricky here. Before sonic hits the ground, again, hit the opposing direction to make sonic turn. WHEN sonic hits the ground, immediately tap the shield button to create a gliding motion backwards. You'll have normal control of sonic while still in the curled animation. Your timing here has to be perfect, otherwise you'll lose your momentum.

If you cannot do a reverse aerial rush, you cannot proceed from this point.

5. While still in the curled animation, down B and charge that B as quickly as you can to get maximum power. You need to play around with it to see how much you can get-- there will be no visual cue other than the normal dust kicked back from an already successful roll. You have to feel it out and watch how quickly sonic's spikes spin-- not even the noise is pulled.

6. Release the spin dash (you should be facing the initial start direction), hold the opposing direction, pop A again, and go through the reverse aerial rush motion, but hold down instead of up:

opposing direction, (pop A) point towards your target and hold down

7. Aerial dodge again, and in the middle of the dodge (where sonic's head starts flipping towards the ground) charge your spin dash again QUICKLY and release in the air. This puts you back at step 5, but instead of being on the ground, your charge begins in the air.

Repeat as many times as necessary. You will "glide" in the direction your initial thrust pushes you towards.

This is VERY tricky, it might just be more trouble than it's worth other than the fact that with each successive boost, you gain speed and you still inflict damage.

While this technique is not quite what I witnessed online, I can imagine with a little refinement it can be. If you pull all these steps off quickly, without waiting for the peaks of any jumps or animations, the spins can be executed at near ground level, giving the illusion of gliding across the ground.

Again, I'm stressing this is NOT what I witnessed-- I won't stop till I get that. But I figured you might benifit from this in the meantime.

*edit*

For a visual reference, imagine sonic doing little "loop the loops" on the ground. Thats pretty much the effect this replicates, but with a very squashed "loop".

Sorry for the complicated explanations but really... these are complicated moves. I drove myself to near insomnia trying to figure it out! you would too, if you saw it...

Anyway, I'm pretty stuck as to getting you guys a visual reference-- definitely working on it-- but if anyone wants to pick it up from here, I am POOPED. I'm going to go pass out for a few days.

 

[Venks]

That just sounds like Sonic's down smash.

 

[nightSN]

how long did it last? o.o

 

[FredTHAreD]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is just his down smash. You can only get two turns in his down-b, and only one on his side-b, and neither are as short or controlled as you mention.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

no, i'm a pretty avid sonic user-- this one went on for a while. I'd say probably about 7-9 seconds, had easily 10+ turns in it.

genuinely looked like a spin/dash dance O_o...

The only reason I say not the down smash is because he was travelling ACROSS the stage while doing it. Imagine dash dancing with a preferance towards the left... but while spin dashing. Very, very tight spin dashes.

I'm dead certain it wasn't a lag out, a visible glitch or anything to the effect. This guy did it at least 3 times, and when I got hit by it once I had a spindash knockback, not a down smash.

*edit*

better question, does anybody know if the spin dash has a cancelling effect anywhere? I can easily see if someone is fast enough to cancel into another spin dash towards the other direction.

 

[Hitzel]

I haven't heard any talk of canceling a spin dash, but if what you say is true, this'll be the most useful AT yet.

How often did this guy do this? Just once?

 

[shatoga]

Isn't that just one of his b attacks?

 

[Crizthakidd]

he had an action replay!!!!!111

 

[Shoop70]

Hmmm...just because it has to be asked, you think it may have been lag? I don't mean to be negative, just wanna look into everything because this could be pretty useful

 

[Kiwi.Ko]

Sounds like it could possibly just be his dash attack repeated in different directions. I don't think you can cancel his spindashes on the floor.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

I haven't heard any talk of canceling a spin dash, but if what you say is true, this'll be the most useful AT yet.

How often did this guy do this? Just once?

The guy did it, as stated above, about 3 times. Each time it lasted about (rounded) 10 seconds, had several turns, and looked definitely like the spin dash.

Isn't that just one of his b attacks?

Yeah, It looked like the charged spin dash but very, very quickly. I'm guessing some sort of cancelling was done, because he was "gliding" to the left while doing it-- I got hit with it once and had the normal spindash knockback.

he had an action replay!!!!!111

Can anyone confirm action replay on smash and the effects it might have? I highly doubt it was action replay, there was no lag, no graphic glitch-- it was a very fluid transition, which makes me believe it was a legitimate ingame tactic.

Hmmm...just because it has to be asked, you think it may have been lag? I don't mean to be negative, just wanna look into everything because this could be pretty useful

There was no lag during the match, it was actually one of the smoothest games i've played yet. Again, it was a very fluid glide to the left, but with some crazy spin dash/dancing very closely resembling the speed of his down smash.

Sounds like it could possibly just be his dash attack repeated in different directions. I don't think you can cancel his spindashes on the floor.

When you say his dash attack, do you mean his running dash, spin dash, or down smash?

If running dash: There was no lead up or any frames in his running position, even for a split second. There was no loss of speed, he actually gained speed with every turn like a spin dash.

If spin dash/down smash: Again, no pauses. Very fluid transitions, very very closely resembled the down smash except for the dust kickup and the size of sonic's animation. It wasn't as skewed, sonic was still perfectly round, and there was no "turn graphic" of sonic's ball when he's down smashing.



In summary: I'm definitely suspecting some kind of cancelling involving the spin dash and some A attack. If you notice when you spin dash with sonic and hit A, you can pop out into an attack and continue to dash. I suspect that if you spin, pop A and do (whatever) cancel fast enough to spin again in the other direction, you might get that glide effect I was talking about.

But then again, I could be completely off. This match has been driving me nuts, and its forever been a head smacker for not getting some replay data off that. Who the heck could expect something like that though? I have a 2GB card now in my wii just in case something like that happens again.


I need thoughts, input, and some constructive critism from the sonic crowd: I legitimately think there was some cancelling going on and some kind of dash dance is possible with sonic's spin dash. I don't have the speed or skill necessary (yet) to pull it off, but if any sonic user has any idea how this can be possible PLEASE share; I've been in training mode nonstop since trying to figure out how the hell this happened.

I completely understand any disbelief-- but I'm not trying to claim anything, i'm trying to figure out how the heck it was done!

 

[Excel_Zero]

Interesting. Can someone post a video showing this plz?

 

[Languish]

He could be just using his down+b constantly, or dashing into one.

 

[Blistering Speed]

We need this bumping, for Sonic Mains this information could be invaluable.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

woah! alright, here's an update after youtubing.

This is the sonic reverse spin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06hXSDhsl-M&NR=1

Note how sonic drifts in one direction before going into the next, but it's clearly a spin dash.

The user in question had the same kind of elastic effect, but it was a nonstop bounce back and forth "gliding" to the left.

When I say glide, note at 0:06 how sonic points one way, slides backwards a bit BEFORE turning. Imagine sonic SLIDING to the left backwards but clearly still in a spindash, repeatedly.

again, at no time did sonic EVER leave the spin dash animation, and he progressively went faster and faster with each turn.

After seeing this video, I'm convinved: it would have to be some sort of DI/air cancel.

Thoughts?

 

[Grandeza]

Do you know who you were vs-ing on wifi?

edit-nvm i read the OP again. Did you save as a replay?

 

[Lonewolf10787]

Unfortunately, no. I recently got online and started playing, and the notion of getting an SD card for replays hit me after this game. Now, I have 2 GB dedicated should this happen again. But other than that... it was my one and only newbie goof.

Like I said before... thats not really something you walk into a match expecting to see!

If I pull this off, I'll save and post the replay.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

It's slow, not quite the effect I want, but I'm sure someone can get this to work. I'm also having problems getting the whole .bin conversion... but thats a tale for another post.

Here are the steps I got going... it's ALOT more complex than a dash dance.

1. Charge the main dash (down B) ONCE (This is key, the initial acceleration cannot be too great or you'll get too much "pop")

2. Release, and in the frame where sonic's spin starts skewing from a circle to whichever direction you choose, immediately tap A, hold down and angle in the opposing direction...

3. ...Aerial dodge, and use sonic's SIDE B in the first opposing direction. This all has to be done VERY quickly, in the first rising frames. Sonic's aerial dodge should be done practically milliseconds after leaving the ground with his rising headbutt.

4. Things begin to get tricky here. Before sonic hits the ground, again, hit the opposing direction to make sonic turn. WHEN sonic hits the ground, immediately tap the shield button to create a gliding motion backwards. You'll have normal control of sonic while still in the curled animation. Your timing here has to be perfect, otherwise you'll lose your momentum.

If you cannot do a reverse aerial rush, you cannot proceed from this point.

5. While still in the curled animation, down B and charge that B as quickly as you can to get maximum power. You need to play around with it to see how much you can get-- there will be no visual cue other than the normal dust kicked back from an already successful roll. You have to feel it out and watch how quickly sonic's spikes spin-- not even the noise is pulled.

6. Release the spin dash (you should be facing the initial start direction), hold the opposing direction, pop A again, and go through the reverse aerial rush motion, but hold down instead of up:

opposing direction, (pop A) point towards your target and hold down

7. Aerial dodge again, and in the middle of the dodge (where sonic's head starts flipping towards the ground) charge your spin dash again QUICKLY and release in the air. This puts you back at step 5, but instead of being on the ground, your charge begins in the air.

Repeat as many times as necessary. You will "glide" in the direction your initial thrust pushes you towards.

This is VERY tricky, it might just be more trouble than it's worth other than the fact that with each successive boost, you gain speed and you still inflict damage.

While this technique is not quite what I witnessed online, I can imagine with a little refinement it can be. If you pull all these steps off quickly, without waiting for the peaks of any jumps or animations, the spins can be executed at near ground level, giving the illusion of gliding across the ground.

Again, I'm stressing this is NOT what I witnessed-- I won't stop till I get that. But I figured you might benifit from this in the meantime.

*edit*

For a visual reference, imagine sonic doing little "loop the loops" on the ground. Thats pretty much the effect this replicates, but with a very squashed "loop".

 

[LarkOhiya]

interesting. also you can save video to your wii regardless. I doubt you have filled your wii memory up with save files. the arbitrary time limit on being able to save a game is 3 minutes. I say arbitrary because there is really no reason for this limitation. Its simply Nintendo's hand holding again making sure you don't fill up all your space with one 10 minute match or something ridiculous.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

I know, there are just two problems. One, I simply forgot about the replay feature initially.

Two, I only want an SD card for portability, and the off chance that I might be able to do a conversion.

 

[LarkOhiya]

fair enough.

 

[Marie_54]

This might be completely wrong on my part but you should check out the thread: "New Tech: SHFFAD"

I don't know if you've been there already but i had done that technique by mistake and was trying to toy with it and spin dash... Maybe that will help you in finding out how to do that.

I hope you do because i want to do it. XD Or atleast see it...

 

[Lonewolf10787]

This is really similar to what was done around 6-7, except that'd be more like a... down-b dashout reverse air short hop fast fall air dodge interrupt down b. So... DBDORASHFFADIDB.

Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

No really, thats really close to the middle of the 6th step, and taking advantage of gravity and DI the SH is even shorter without a need for a FF. The AD is interrupted by a spindash even before landing; it acts more of a motion cancelling/momentum maintaining step to do the reverse spindash referenced in the youtube video.

I've been prowling the boards, and every bit helps-- this will no doubt help in the end.

 

[Deathwish238]

very nice find like i said you should really have IoZ, lucky, twinkletoes, and soloman to look into this.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Could we get some replays up of this? I can't check it right now, but I'd really like to know what it looks like.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Way too complicated. Need a video to really show it off.

Also in the wrong section. There are character specific boards for a reason.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I coulda swore this was in character specific the whole time. Huh.

 

[Boxob]

I coulda swore this was in character specific the whole time. Huh.

This.


tentententen

 

[thecatinthehat]

I coulda swore this was in character specific the whole time. Huh.

This ws most definitely in the Character Specific boards. strange.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Teasing SamuraiPanda aside, I really really REALLY want to see this. Could you guys just send a replay to my Wii, or something?

 

[Marie_54]

Congrats! :D

but i'm kind of lost without a vid.

"First, initiate a spin dash in the direction you want to go. Release, and tap Z a few frames after the release to cancel the spin dash but maintain your momentum. "

Is this when you cancel a spin-dash and Sonic flies really fast up-diagonally in a jumping animation(Not the usual cancel)? You should try to explain a bit more what is happening to Sonic. Just a suggestion.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

Certainly. Lets say we're going left. I point left, charge down b a bit, watch sonic begin revving into a ball, and release. Sonic begins to change his animation from "kicking up dust" to "speeding off". In the few frames before sonic actually takes off, the ideal spindash cancel begins here, and sonic halts.

In our application, we're holding down left before the release, we tap Z in the last frames after sonic launches, and sonic gets an initial burst of speed that we carry over into an automatic roll. (Thats why we're holding down and left. As sonic begins to roll out, carry over into his down smash. Its a little like a roll motion with your thumb, then carry on to the RIGHT as sonic makes a pass to the right, left, and on his return back to the right. Hold Z again, tap right to roll to the right so his back is facing the right again, and proceed with another spin dash/cancel.

Think 2 steps forward, one step back.

 

[Umby]

Kinda having trouble with canceling the Spin Dash in the first step. Are we talking about an excruciatingly small amount of frames, or somewhere about half a second's worth?

 

[Soloman]

if it comes down to canceling spindash why not just shield, simple as that.or do u have to be airborne.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

No, you got it-- I have Z mapped to shield. Its a pretty small window to get the initial momentum though-- I'd say in the precious few frames after you release the B button

 

[R4ZE]

all im saying, is this sounds freakin sweet,. anddddd i wanna learn how to do it.

this could be just what sonic needed.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

Yeah, since I found out how to do it, I'm practicing it whenever I can. The more you practice it, the more fluid it looks-- the more fluid it looks, the more confusing it is.

This one can REALLY pull some mind games-- both the SNBDD and the SWBDD. If I figure out how to chain the two together now...

But I digress. I'm tired and pooped from this one lol enjoy, hope it helps!

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think we figured out also how Zeal increased the range of the D smash.

I'll try it once im home.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I think we figured out also how Zeal increased the range of the D smash.

I'll try it once im home.

Nah he said it was "******** simple".
That doesn't look simple at all.

 

[Lonewolf10787]

Nah he said it was "******** simple".
That doesn't look simple at all.

I heard about that, too, but the method in question (SNBDD) is more of making the D smash travel across the stage. The (SWBDD) is very loose, and offers more flexibility, making that one much more akin to a dash dance than the (SNBDD).
This is definitely not "******** simple", but it's not that hard when you visualize it, either. The (SWBDD) is the harder of the two-- but the payoff for it is so much greater than anything else sonic has to offer.

Also, about the credibility of this: I know it seems a little tough to envision. I'm doing the best I can with limited resources to get some solid proof to you. Don't discredit this thread-- as eyebrow raising as it may be, I can assure it is 100% real, and vastly useful.

When I can get a nice stable connection on the wifi (aka not 3 in the morning), I'll play a few rounds so you can take vid. of it. That's been my largest problem-- I can't get a stable wifi connection... but thats pretty common and HOPEFULLY should be fixed by nintendo (fingers crossed) soon.