Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[da K.I.D.]

i was trying to intentionally get upsmash I frames in my matches with kirk, it was lulZy

 

[Browny]

ASASFDFAS

I cant stop using dash grabs instead of running shield grabs, and i always get punished for it. Do people here have any special button config for shields? Using the l button is failing dismally for me, I had it set to X since i bought brawl but i just cant ever remember to do it in time theres gotta be an easier way >_<

 

[Sonic-Fan]

ASASFDFAS

I cant stop using dash grabs instead of running shield grabs, and i always get punished for it. Do people here have any special button config for shields? Using the l button is failing dismally for me, I had it set to X since i bought brawl but i just cant ever remember to do it in time theres gotta be an easier way >_<

I just use z for my grabs.

and maybe you're being too grab-happy?

the safest time to try for a grab is after the opponent uses a laggy move, during their recovery lag, or if they miss you with an attack and end up close to you.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Browny, I once switched around my whole configuration. I put R as Specials and B as shield button. However specials are too important for Sonic, I couldn't get used to it. However, shield on a button instead of a trigger helps you a lot.

 

[Superhacker75mil]

A good alternative is to learn how to manage with tap jump on, especially since you don't need to worry about up-tilts much, and up+B out of shield can be useful given the invincibility (and accidental spring mindgames, ^o^).

If you do that, you can just disregard the jump button and move it to Y instead of X, which is now your new shield button.

Granted, having X for jump seems pretty important to Sonic, since jumping out of your spin dashes and stuff is really important for him, but if the Control Stick is good enough, it's good enough.

 

[infomon]

Actually, you can jump out of spindash stuff by tapping up, even with tap-jump off

Don't ask me why. Oh and I don't think that's true of aerial spindashes, but w/e.

Edit: up-B OoS seems like it should be useful for Sonic, but it's not something I've incorporated into my game yet. Thanks for bringing it up

 

[Tenki]

up-B out of run and shield were really common when I had tap jump on.

I think I may have even overabused that move back then.

I did alot better on BF after I turned it off, lol.

 

[wildjango]

is there any uses for vertcial spin dash jump???

 

[aeghrur]

Browny, go Shield+A? Pause a little, don't press the two too fast. :o

 

[Sonic-Fan]

holy crap, half the sonic board's population got banned...

fill me in??

 

[thecatinthehat]

Half of the Sonic Boards members are posers.

<3

 

[Sonic-Fan]

explain further??

 

[infomon]

We're not actually banned; it's just in our avatars

 

[Browny]

except gf2, hes legit banned lmao

 

[Sonic-Fan]

oh, well there you go, lol.

 

[Kinzer]

is there any uses for vertcial spin dash jump???

VSDJ has a hitbox on launch, and it goes about as high as a full jump if not higher... so just think of it as a safer jump method if you will (though I doubt the hitbox sticks after you jump off, but I could be wrong.

holy crap, half the sonic board's population got banned...

fill me in??

Continuing from this question, can somebody link me the origin of this idea? I've been gone for a while and I missed a lot (unless it's in the SBR, I'll catch up by reading that and I'll join on the ban-wagon). I would also like to know why the person who started this, is doing it (unless it's or teh lulz).

Also you guys tricked poor Mmac with this, I wonder who else fell for it. LOL!

 

[Tenki]

Empty Full Hop/Short Hop/(v)SDJ approach

Juuust wondering, and just so you know, this is all theorycraft -

Sweetspot N-air approach?

Now you might be thinking "lol but why?"

If it hits...
- 9-11% damage (lol really, noone uses it enough to stale it too much)
- low %'s combos into a D-tilt, F-tilt, jab.
- mid%'s > no-tech jab lock..?
- high %'s something similar to a D-throw trajectory with less lag.

Avoidance methods from opponent...
- Shield
- Roll
- Spotdodge
- Aerial/U-smash out of shield

If it's shielded...
- opponent gets a shieldgrab. awesome.



Now you're thinking "lol that sucks".

here's the thing though - N-air has little startup time (and range >_>), and little landing lag.

In other words, if you're going for a sweetspot N-air, you don't commit until you actually use it.

If someone starts doing U-smash or an aerial out of shield, you can still airdodge, but more importantly...

vs Shield?
This means if you condition someone to shield when you get in N-air range so they can grab you out of shield, you can...
- double jump (maybe even dj>counter D-air)
- fastfall and grab
- spotdodge
- spring
- homing attack
- N-air to land behind opponent (beware reverse grabs out of shield, but against people who are trigger happy, this will usually give you a missed grab to punish)


Notice that most of those don't require you to actually use N-air. N-air is just a move to condition them for it.

And if you N-air (or just fastfall) and they roll/spotdodge? You can still punish it.

+awesome.

PS- the only real way to screw this up is if the opponent walks away, lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

N-air is good, but only to hit around you. I like my other approaches more than N-air :[]

 

[Tenki]

the point of it was that N-air's not the real approach.

it's a trap.

 

[Jim Morrison]

The trap only works on people who think Sonic has N-air. Basicly, they would have to read this to know what the N-air COULD do. When they read it, they know it's a trap. It's NOT a trap, Tenki.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I use it a lot against Lolimar, it's safe in that it negates things like Pikmin Throw.

I use it more as a punisher than anything else. Obviously, with little range comes little priority, so supposing your opponent doesn't go defensive and tries to swat you out of it, you're probably going to be taking damage.

Though to be honest I'm not familiar with how Grounded v Aerial priority works.

Lol I'm such a scrub.

 

[Tenki]

Post title changed, because I guess the post was TL;DR.

The trap only works on people who think Sonic has N-air. Basicly, they would have to read this to know what the N-air COULD do. When they read it, they know it's a trap. It's NOT a trap, Tenki.

In that case, apply what you're saying to spindash cancels - both kinds.

It's just another mixup option, but N-air works because it has decent damage output for its startup time, whereas F-air and U-air being the fastest, have minimal damage because of their multi-hits.

I use it a lot against Lolimar, it's safe in that it negates things like Pikmin Throw.

I use it more as a punisher than anything else. Obviously, with little range comes little priority, so supposing your opponent doesn't go defensive and tries to swat you out of it, you're probably going to be taking damage.

Though to be honest I'm not familiar with how Grounded v Aerial priority works.

Lol I'm such a scrub.

It might be good on Olimar because you can hit the Pikmin (projectiles) and negate their attacks. As for Ground vs Air, it all depends on who gets to the hurtbox first.

But again, the real point was that the real approach was an empty hop. N-air is just there for the once-in-a-while, and you don't really have to start it until you're in shield range, meaning you're free to do whatever escape move you please until you're actually in shield range to N-air, and even then, you don't have to N-air.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Is there any reason for not doing at least a nair when landing? It has like 3 frames of landing lag right?

 

[Jim Morrison]

it depends on where you land. landing near a shielding opponent, I'd rather use 3 frames to spotdodge.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I figure like... right outside of D3's grab range. Except against D3 or Zard cause they'd just grab you.

 

[Jim Morrison]

That far away you wont hit them.

 

[infomon]

It's more than 3 frames.... I think always, although the landing lag of Nair depends on which hitbox is out when you land, or smthg like that.

 

[Tenki]

Is there any reason for not doing at least a nair when landing? It has like 3 frames of landing lag right?

It's more than 3 frames.... I think always, although the landing lag of Nair depends on which hitbox is out when you land, or smthg like that.

yeah, It feels like alot more than 3 frames. Let's say it's 8 frames. You might as well have done a fastfall and grab in that time period.

I'm not sure about whether or not N-air's various landing points make a difference in landing lag. KID brought it up before.

But... we need someone to confirm this -_-'

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Honestly I was exaggerating. I don't have frame data.

 

[da K.I.D.]

we need to find out the lag for all those parts of the move. its important, but people should land n airs more...

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm missing acronyms I'm sure.

My mind is a little pre-occupied, feel free to post what I'm missing. Links to threads that explain them further will come when my internet stops being slow.

 

[Camalange]

Cool beans, how about...

SCA - Spring Canceled Aerials

 

[infomon]

SDAP = Spin Dash Air Pivot

SCROD = Super Crazy Roll of Doom (or Death?)

I have videos of both of those but they were talked about in some threads some places.... idk too lazy to look 'em up now srry

Invincible dashes also have lots of weird acronyms Tenki used: iSDR, iASC, etc.
But confusingly, KID uses iSDJ to mean "instant Spin Dash Jump", like when you go straight into an SDJ from a down-B charging. I recommend instead we call this ISDJ to distinguish it from iSDJ = invincible.

 

[Camalange]

I agree with infzy.

ISDJ > iSDJ

Oh, and it's Doom.

 

[Espy Rose]

About that single jab off the ledge thing in your OP Rooooy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xablSTdn9Ls&fmt=18

Start the vid at 3:00

It happens @ 3:03
Although it isn't been used exactly as I described it, the end result was the exact same.

 

[thecatinthehat]

You forgot SLOW.

Sonic Loop of Wyn.

 

[darkNES386]

Finally, one of the most interesting things about this move is that it gives Sonic invincibility frames (i.e. he can't get hurt even when attacked.) As soon as Sonic leaves the Spring until about full hop height, Sonic is invincible. They're pretty useful for getting out of tight spots I guess. And yeah, apparently pulling this face makes you invincible, try it!

I've been experimenting a lot with using this against aerial rushing opponents that normally would be difficult to deal with (Game and watch/ Peach). I haven't seen many videos though of it being applied in tournament situations.

Additionally, I am experimenting with it more positionally like a banana or C4 item.

Obviously spam is no good and opponent's will catch on, but it just adds one more thing for them to worry about. For all I know though, it's easily punishable if you don't time it right since sonic starting the spring can't attack as soon as he/anyone else could by jumping regularly on the spring.

 

[Jim Morrison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJczJYpaA70

How did he jab me if I had invincibility frames
(at 1:30)

 

[darkNES386]

The frame the spring is created on must not be invincible, but I'm pretty confident that the few frames immediately after are. I've had consistent success with not getting hit.

 

[Espy Rose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMV_gldmoTs

@ 0:30-0:33: Invincibility frames.

He's vulnerable for the first few frames, invincible halfway up the animation, then vulnerable again. I've actually been cypher grabbed on level by a Dedede because he grabbed me RIGHT out of my spring.

I remember having myself spring through a Tink's dair once, but I can't find where I put it. That video should suffice though.