Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Browny]

OK, I added that.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I'm not 100% sure if everyone got that Miis are voted with their full moveset available. Not sure if people downvote them due to lack of knowledge or something els.

Nice input on sword fighter on the article!

 

[Elin]

Rest in pieces my hopes for another 64/Melee era Puff.

Anyways,
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Jiggs, Zorldo, and Paletuna should be bottom three imo.
In the no, just no tier.

 

[Deleted member]

Rest in pieces my hopes for another 64/Melee era Puff.

Anyways,
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Jiggs, Zorldo, and Paletuna should be bottom three imo.
In the no, just no tier.

>Palutena bottom 3

I really wonder if people actually know jack**** about this character lol

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Anyone can pretty much say that about their main, if you don't play the character to truly get an understanding......well you really don't 100% know what your talking about or if your fully accurate.

There's a difference between playing the character and watching/reading about them.

This applies essentially to ALL characters.

 

[Routa]

Anyone can pretty much say that about their main, if you don't play the character to truly get an understanding......well you really don't 100% know what your talking about or if your fully accurate.

There's a difference between playing the character and watching/reading about them.

This applies essentially to ALL characters.

The sad thing is that some people are blinded by main bias.

 

[apparently fuz]

"ZSS has no weaknesses and doesn't lose any MUs!"

I think it's best for people to do some research before passing judgements on characters that they evidently do not play.

 

[Dusk Pit]

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[Bowserboy3]

"ZSS has no weaknesses and doesn't lose any MUs!"

I think it's best for people to do some research before passing judgements on characters that they evidently do not play.

That's a bit of an over-exaggeration don't you think?

If you are attempting to have a sideways knock at me for my +1 vote on ZSS (which you clearly are; nobody else went into detail about their vote on her other than me), please read my vote/explaination better in future. I was comparing her to Rosalina, and said she has "next to no weaknesses" when compared to her, implying she has weaknesses obviously, but not as clear as Rosalina. She also doesn't lose as many matchups as Rosalina, or struggle in as many as she does.

ZSS clearly does have weaknesses, but they aren't as evident as Rosalina's. I can't speak loads for her matchup spread, but I don't think she has perfect matchups. If I was to label two she struggles in, I'd quite positively say Sheik and Pikachu as the worst matchups that she potentially loses, based on my experience playing her.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

>Palutena bottom 3

I really wonder if people actually know jack**** about this character lol

1. Does Uprising count?
2. If not, I still know a guy(Ant Man reference to somehow...yay)

 

[Jumpo]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Xandercosm]

"ZSS has no weaknesses and doesn't lose any MUs!"

I think it's best for people to do some research before passing judgements on characters that they evidently do not play.

On the other hand, that's actually a pretty accurate description of the character.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

On the other hand, that's actually a pretty accurate description of the character.

ZSS=Nutshell

 

[Thecombosetups]

+

 

[Elin]

>Palutena bottom 3

I really wonder if people actually know jack**** about this character lol

>opinions are opinions

>not facts

Seriously though, I was probably overexaggerating. I tend to do that. It's in my blood for some reason.

 

[apparently fuz]

On the other hand, that's actually a pretty accurate description of the character.

But it isn't though.

 

[SonicNKnux]

>Palutena bottom 3

I really wonder if people actually know jack**** about this character lol

It's possible she hasn't fought a decent one. Beat her up a few times to get her to change her mind. I honestly haven't fought a Palutena player once all month

 

[Xandercosm]

But it isn't though.

A ZSS main would say that.

It's possible she hasn't fought a decent one. Beat her up a few times to get her to change her mind. I honestly haven't fought a Palutena player once all month

You act as if @Feelicks is better than Elin . You have no way of knowing. Palutena is a very, very flawed character. Just because you main her doesn't give you the right to try and force someone else to agree with your deluded opinion of a character you have a bias to. I don't agree that she's bottom 3 but I think she isn't far off.

 

[LRodC]

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[Elin]

A ZSS main would say that.



You act as if @Feelicks is better than Elin . You have no way of knowing. Palutena is a very, very flawed character. Just because you main her doesn't give you the right to try and force someone else to agree with your deluded opinion of a character you have a bias to. I don't agree that she's bottom 3 but I think she isn't far off.

I don't think she's the worst, personally I think Zelda is, but still, the lack of representation in tournaments say something.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

A ZSS main would say that.



You act as if @Feelicks is better than Elin . You have no way of knowing. Palutena is a very, very flawed character. Just because you main her doesn't give you the right to try and force someone else to agree with your deluded opinion of a character you have a bias to. I don't agree that she's bottom 3 but I think she isn't far off.

Pit will always play with her though

 

[Xandercosm]

Pit will always play with her though

That brings bad images to mind...

 

[IndigoSSB]

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The mid-tier will be the hardest to order, and it's hard to make sense of the mess it is right now. I'd recommend focusing on the high and low tiers.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think she's the worst, personally I think Zelda is, but still, the lack of representation in tournaments say something.

IceNinja, TLTC and Prince Ramen are all notable Palutena players. IceNinja won a national over Wizzrobe's Sheik, and Ramen is #1 on Central Florida Power Rankings, which is a very good region. A Palutena even got 17th at Tipped Off 11.

You can **** on the character all you want, but to say she has a lack of tournament representation is outright false. People say this kind of stuff about Dedede too. He may not be a good character but he most definitely has players.

 

[apparently fuz]

A ZSS main would say that.

Not particularly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that my statement is suddenly less valid because I main said character? Because saying 'A ZSS main would say that' is a little bit obvious considering that I play the character, meaning that I'm aware of her strengths and weaknesses.

 

[David Viran]

Hes

Not particularly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that my statement is suddenly less valid because I main said character? Because saying 'A ZSS main would say that' is a little bit obvious considering that I play the character, meaning that I'm aware of her strengths and weaknesses.

He's saying that because mains of a good Character tend to focus more on weaknesses and downplay strengths chalking it up to the player being good. Not saying I agree with him, just clarifying.

 

[apparently fuz]

Hes

He's saying that because mains of a good Character tend to focus more on weaknesses and downplay strengths chalking it up to the player being good. Not saying I agree with him, just clarifying.

I'm aware of that. However, it is pretty stupid that you're suddenly downplaying your top tier main because you refute silly statements like 'you lose no MUs'.

 

[SonicNKnux]

You act as if @Feelicks is better than Elin . You have no way of knowing. Palutena is a very, very flawed character. Just because you main her doesn't give you the right to try and force someone else to agree with your deluded opinion of a character you have a bias to. I don't agree that she's bottom 3 but I think she isn't far off.

Whoa, deluded? Now I have to break it down.

The only "opinion" I may have would be traced to my implied "decent" and "beat her up."
My comment was in response to @Feelicks basically being unsure if Elin knew much about the character since, in all honesty Palutena's rarely used. I only bluntly suggested that @Feelicks try playing her in a few games with Palutena in an attempt to raise her opinion of the character. There's no deeper meaning than that.

People rate a character based on what they've seen and experienced. It's easy to judge a character if you've only fought a limited number of them in general, to say nothing of individual skill level.

Yes, I realize she has flaws. Bias? I may defend her at times but fact is fact: In general, due to being defensive and slow she's a harder character to use at a high level than others, period. So yes, other characters are more easily accessable than her. Yes I main her, but I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone.

Lastly, I made no comment about her position on a tier list.

Where you got your assumptions is beyond me. Cut it out.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I do feel like people just don't look at the strengths of even the bottom tiered characters.
You can say they have several weaknesses, but if you don't play the character, you mostly don't know how MUCH the weakness really matters.

And much of the time, people who don't play those characters() from what I see, almost never list the strengths they do have, while the mains of these characters at least try to explain that they have their strengths.

I know main bias is a thing, but so is ignorance too.
I don't want to be mean, but really, you need to actually play the character to get the best understanding of them before actually making an opinion. I won't deny, Zelda is sadly very far down there, she has her noticeable weaknesses, but she has her few strengths and can do things that may surprise you.

Now I don't know how to search for results for tournaments or anything like that, but I am sure she has a few placings and a few noticeable players.

Just my personal thoughts, I hope it doesn't stir up too much of a ruckus

 

[apparently fuz]

If you post weaknesses about your top tier mains, then you're downplaying them.

If you post strengths about your low tier mains, then you're delusional.

There is no winning.

 

[Xandercosm]

Whoa, deluded? Now I have to break it down.

The only "opinion" I may have would be traced to my implied "decent" and "beat her up."
My comment was in response to @Feelicks basically being unsure if Elin knew much about the character since, in all honesty Palutena's rarely used. I only bluntly suggested that @Feelicks try playing her in a few games with Palutena in an attempt to raise her opinion of the character. There's no deeper meaning than that.

People rate a character based on what they've seen and experienced. It's easy to judge a character if you've only fought a limited number of them in general, to say nothing of individual skill level.

Yes, I realize she has flaws. Bias? I may defend her at times but fact is fact: In general, due to being defensive and slow she's a harder character to use at a high level than others, period. So yes, other characters are more easily accessable than her. Yes I main her, but I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone.

Lastly, I made no comment about her position on a tier list.

Where you got your assumptions is beyond me. Cut it out.

First of all, don't tell me to "cut it out". Let's keep the discussion respectful. Second of all, I never said that you made any statement on her placement in the tier list. Wether or not I have played against a good Palutena player, I can tell you she is bad. She has notable weaknesses that will always be there wether or not she has the minimal tourney representation that @Feelicks mentioned.

You pretty much agreed with me in this post in all other respects. We agree that she is slow and defensive and that doesn't make for a very competitive character. Simple as that

If you post weaknesses about your top tier mains, then you're downplaying them.

If you post strengths about your low tier mains, then you're delusional.

There is no winning.

I'm not really sure what your point here is.

I'm aware of that. However, it is pretty stupid that you're suddenly downplaying your top tier main because you refute silly statements like 'you lose no MUs'.

We all agree ZSS is top tier. She is an extremely dominating, oppressive character that negates just about half the cast. EVERY character has weaknesses. She just has such minimal weaknesses that it's as if she has none at all. I have a hard time sympathizing with top tier mains that complain about issues their characters have because it is so silly and futile. A character as strong as ZSS simply doesn't have large enough weaknesses to matter.

I am, however, interested in knowing what MUs she loses. I will admit I don't know too much about her MU data. As a ZSS main, I'm sure you will be able to provide me with the information.

 

[Wintermelon43]

First of all, don't tell me to "cut it out". Let's keep the discussion respectful. Second of all, I never said that you made any statement on her placement in the tier list. Wether or not I have played against a good Palutena player, I can tell you she is bad. She has notable weaknesses that will always be there wether or not she has the minimal tourney representation that @Feelicks mentioned.

You pretty much agreed with me in this post in all other respects. We agree that she is slow and defensive and that doesn't make for a very competitive character. Simple as that



I'm not really sure what your point here is.



We all agree ZSS is top tier. She is an extremely dominating, oppressive character that negates just about half the cast. EVERY character has weaknesses. She just has such minimal weaknesses that it's as if she has none at all. I have a hard time sympathizing with top tier mains that complain about issues their characters have because it is so silly and futile. A character as strong as ZSS simply doesn't have large enough weaknesses to matter.

I am, however, interested in knowing what MUs she loses. I will admit I don't know too much about her MU data. As a ZSS main, I'm sure you will be able to provide me with the information.

Diddy and Greninja, I've heard beat her

 

[apparently fuz]

First of all, don't tell me to "cut it out". Let's keep the discussion respectful. Second of all, I never said that you made any statement on her placement in the tier list. Wether or not I have played against a good Palutena player, I can tell you she is bad. She has notable weaknesses that will always be there wether or not she has the minimal tourney representation that @Feelicks mentioned.

You pretty much agreed with me in this post in all other respects. We agree that she is slow and defensive and that doesn't make for a very competitive character. Simple as that



I'm not really sure what your point here is.



We all agree ZSS is top tier. She is an extremely dominating, oppressive character that negates just about half the cast. EVERY character has weaknesses. She just has such minimal weaknesses that it's as if she has none at all. I have a hard time sympathizing with top tier mains that complain about issues their characters have because it is so silly and futile. A character as strong as ZSS simply doesn't have large enough weaknesses to matter.

I am, however, interested in knowing what MUs she loses. I will admit I don't know too much about her MU data. As a ZSS main, I'm sure you will be able to provide me with the information.

Sigh...I'll reply to this fully tomorrow, I'm tired.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That brings bad images to mind...

That's the point

 

[Bowserboy3]

Let's just agree on this; ZSS is in the top tier, potentially 2nd best in the game due to amazing strengths that allow her to succeed in almost all match ups, and minimal weaknesses, that are also not readily exploitable (as characters like Rosalina, Ryu etc).

End.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Let's just agree on this; ZSS is in the top tier, potentially 2nd best in the game due to amazing strengths that allow her to succeed in almost all match ups, and minimal weaknesses, that are also not readily exploitable (as characters like Rosalina, Ryu etc).

End.

Pit is the only best character...to me atleast


(But yeah ZSS is probably the 2nd best overall)

 

[apparently fuz]

That's a bit of an over-exaggeration don't you think?

If you are attempting to have a sideways knock at me for my +1 vote on ZSS (which you clearly are; nobody else went into detail about their vote on her other than me), please read my vote/explaination better in future. I was comparing her to Rosalina, and said she has "next to no weaknesses" when compared to her, implying she has weaknesses obviously, but not as clear as Rosalina. She also doesn't lose as many matchups as Rosalina, or struggle in as many as she does.

ZSS clearly does have weaknesses, but they aren't as evident as Rosalina's. I can't speak loads for her matchup spread, but I don't think she has perfect matchups. If I was to label two she struggles in, I'd quite positively say Sheik and Pikachu as the worst matchups that she potentially loses, based on my experience playing her.

I genuinely did not see this reply pop up, so apologies for the late response.

Your specific post wasn't really why I made said remark, but it acted as more as a catalyst towards the re-occuring issue of the spreading of false information for characters in general. I'll admit, I did act rather impulsively when reading your post (namely due to the buzzwords of 'matchups' and 'weaknesses' and how wrongly they are used to describe a specific character), but the issue still stands in general. People do deliver conclusions (and especially conclusions as facts) on subjects that they obviously do not have any knowledge on, and it is frustrating to shift through the mounds of crap that people say in order to give an accurate representation of the character that one plays. At the end however, it is my bad for actually looking through what you had to say properly.

 

[Xandercosm]

I genuinely did not see this reply pop up, so apologies for the late response.

Your specific post wasn't really why I made said remark, but it acted as more as a catalyst towards the re-occuring issue of the spreading of false information for characters in general. I'll admit, I did act rather impulsively when reading your post (namely due to the buzzwords of 'matchups' and 'weaknesses' and how wrongly they are used to describe a specific character), but the issue still stands in general. People do deliver conclusions (and especially conclusions as facts) on subjects that they obviously do not have any knowledge on, and it is frustrating to shift through the mounds of crap that people say in order to give an accurate representation of the character that one plays. At the end however, it is my bad for actually looking through what you had to say properly.

I'd like you to give us all a nice summary of all of ZSS's crippling weaknesses. When you make a statement you need to defend it.

 

[Vyrnx]

I think Jiggs and Zelda are the bottom 2 and we shouldn't unfairly lump another character with them to make a "bottom 3", there is probably a significant difference between the third "worst" character and Zelda. It's also much harder to determine the third worst, whereas the bottom 2 are usually agreed on.

 

[apparently fuz]

I'd like you to give us all a nice summary of all of ZSS's crippling weaknesses. When you make a statement you need to defend it.

Crippling weaknesses? For a start, I don't think I said anything about ZSS having crippling weaknesses, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to defend a statement I never said. Secondly, she doesn't have any 'crippling weaknesses'.