Q&A Tactical Deployment - Roy Q&A Thread

[Caliph]

I somehow got unsubscribed to this thread, rip. Posting to get notifications from here again.



Don't forget taunt sliding lol.

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There are a couple of things worth noting about different stages. On Duck Hunt, I've had opponents with high jumps camp the tree to force me to approach aerially, as well as the 3 platform transformation on Town and City (especially Shulk, who can switch between jump art platform camping and shield art), so those are things to watch out for. Lylat is pure evil sometimes, and I tend to avoid it when I can, since sometimes you glitch on the ledges (as in, blazer right through the edge of the stage instead of ledge snapping). I know there was a gfy or short video floating around of this happening in tournament. It has also happened to me in friendlies (blazer'd through the stage, and landed on top of it near where the engine was lol). Also, against characters with a wall cling, you should probably avoid omega castle seige, as there's a foreground wall that can obstruct your view at times when the opponent wall clings low on the right side of the stage.

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it is Roy exclusive, and it's easy to do. Just rotate gently along the edge of the control pad between crouching and walking (not too fast or you'll dash), and back to crouch. If you do it with the right timing, you'll slide a bit forwards. It's due to Roy's peculiar walking animation. If you stop the walk at the right time, you'll retain momentum.

That's the same concept with taunt sliding, only there you use pivot walking instead. Essentially, turn around slowly (don't dash), taunt after a slight hesitation. If you do it right, it'll look something like this:

taunting is one of the options that mantain momentum, along with flare blade and dsmash. Sadly, Roy's other options do not retain momentum.

I seem to do bad with Lylat, due to how it shakes and sometimes I'll get pineappled, but I like Duck hunt. A stage with a large area with high platforms off to the side. Also anyway to deal with platform camping safely?

Is this tech imperative for a Roy main? Because after seeing what it can do I would like to implement it into my gameplay

Also couldn't figure out how to Quote someone, so sorry about the huge posts?

 

[EnGarde]

I seem to do bad with Lylat, due to how it shakes and sometimes I'll get pineappled, but I like Duck hunt. A stage with a large area with high platforms off to the side. Also anyway to deal with platform camping safely?

Is this tech imperative for a Roy main? Because after seeing what it can do I would like to implement it into my gameplay

Also couldn't figure out how to Quote someone, so sorry about the huge posts?

As Serew mentioned earlier, it's something that we haven't found the full usefulness of yet. I don't know of any Roy mains that have implemented it in their game yet. So you'll have to do some experimenting and get back to us with how it went lol.

 

[Caliph]

Yeah I'll get to labbing with it and see how I like it.

 

[MikeMan214]

So how has Roy been proven to be better than marth?

 

[DJ Backwards]

So I was looking into Roy's fair cancel and it got me wondering. Since he can cancel the ending of his short hop fair into jumps and specials I was wondering if he could change it into other aerials. According to http://kuroganehammer.com/smash4/Roy Bair, Uair, and Dair all have a 2 frame autocancel window in their front ends, is it possible to cancel into this making the fair lagless?

I'm gonna assume not because if it was a possible then likely players better than myself would have already experimented with this. I just wanted to bring it up.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So I was looking into Roy's fair cancel and it got me wondering. Since he can cancel the ending of his short hop fair into jumps and specials I was wondering if he could change it into other aerials. According to http://kuroganehammer.com/smash4/Roy Bair, Uair, and Dair all have a 2 frame autocancel window in their front ends, is it possible to cancel into this making the fair lagless?

I'm gonna assume not because if it was a possible then likely players better than myself would have already experimented with this. I just wanted to bring it up.

No, for some reason the game just gives you fair's landing lag even though you're starting a different move.

 

[DJ Backwards]

No, for some reason the game just gives you fair's landing lag even though you're starting a different move.

Ahhh, figured. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Caliph]

Do you guys use a-landing in your gameplay, as I saw the video and it seems like it's a good technique to use? Also what aerials do you use for Roy?

 

[Serew]

Do you guys use a-landing in your gameplay, as I saw the video and it seems like it's a good technique to use? Also what aerials do you guys use for Roy?

I don't use it cause Roys autocancels are not good, we have about 1/2 frames to time most of ours mostly 1 on most moves.

 

[Caliph]

I don't use it cause Roys autocancels are not good, we have about 1/2 frames to time most of ours mostly 1 on most moves.

So Roy is one of those characters who is very difficult to a-land with? Also is it worth practicing a-landing with Roy as the timing is very strict?

 

[Login_Sinker]

Aight, so here's a few questions from someone who's still a beginner at this character.

1) What are Roy's best tools in the neutral? His punish game speaks for itself, but I'm not sure what the best ways are to get the advantage. Is Nair a safe option?

2) What are Roy's best and worst relevant match ups? Any particularly good or bad?

3) What are Roy's most efficient combos throughout the percents?

4) Who are the current best Roy players that I should be watching to learn from?

 

[Caliph]

Aight, so here's a few questions from someone who's still a beginner at this character.

1) What are Roy's best tools in the neutral? His punish game speaks for itself, but I'm not sure what the best ways are to get the advantage. Is Nair a safe option?

2) What are Roy's best and worst relevant match ups? Any particularly good or bad?

3) What are Roy's most efficient combos throughout the percents?

4) Who are the current best Roy players that I should be watching to learn from?

1) Nair isn't safe if you get the sweetspot on shield, but spacing it toward the tipper works well. Along with nair, dtilt, cross up uair also work, and i believe tomahawks also work.

2) His worst MU got a bit better ( Sheik, ZSS), but some are debating that diddy and sonic are still bad for him. For some of his best MU, I would say Lucario is slighly in our favor, if we can kill him before he gets a good bit of aura, there're more but can't seem to remember which. In general, Roy has for the most part equal MU across the roster accept for some cases.

3) Roy kinda relies off of hit confirms for combos, such as confirms from jab, nair 1, and uair and mostly rely off of reads.

4) Roy has a low playerbase, but some I can name off the top of my head are NEO, Sethlon, and StaticManny. Sethlon has a Youtube channel where he breaks apart his matches from the weeklies he goes to.

Also I would recommend you join the Roy Discord Group, as it's a place where you can learn more about Roy and other questions you have about his metagame.

Hope this helps!

Edit: forgot to put this in but here's a playlist of Roy being used in tournament matches: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6DijhH2fjSSQIyCJiI8n3qfMXUy-tsS_

 

[Jiom]

Maybe it's just me does it bother anyone else with how long it takes for shield to come up after dash? I'm guessing this is probably to make him have more trouble against projectiles but I'm pretty reluctant to choosing on shielding most of the time anyways.

 

[EnGarde]

Maybe it's just me does it bother anyone else with how long it takes for shield to come up after dash? I'm guessing this is probably to make him have more trouble against projectiles but I'm pretty reluctant to choosing on shielding most of the time anyways.

Roy has a very long initial dash, so yeah, it takes a long time to get shield and other standing options back after commiting to it. That's why, especially against projectile characters, you should considering walking as an option as well, so that you retain the ability to shield easily. Hope that helps!

 

[Jiom]

Yes, I love walking with Roy and I pretty much only walk unless I'm in the air. Too remedy his long initial dash I would just fox trot once, and perfect pivot after into shield. Not sure if shield comes up faster then just waiting for the initial dash to end but the perfect pivot won't have you advance forward as much distance and also leaves your back towards the opponent if you were facing them originally.

Also I read up on someone mentioning nair OoS so I'm definitely going to practice my punishes after shielding.

edit: I keep forgetting about Roy's momentum from starting a walk in the other direction, or from crouch too. It made me want to try D tilt then walking in the other direction for maybe some huge momentum swing but I forgot you can't walk/turnaround after d tilt in this game. I remember in brawl some characters had momentum from doing this but that's probably why you can't anymore.

 

[EnGarde]

Yes, I love walking with Roy and I pretty much only walk unless I'm in the air. Too remedy his long initial dash I would just fox trot once, and perfect pivot after into shield. Not sure if shield comes up faster then just waiting for the initial dash to end but the perfect pivot won't have you advance forward as much distance and also leaves your back towards the opponent if you were facing them originally.

Also I read up on someone mentioning nair OoS so I'm definitely going to practice my punishes after shielding.

edit: I keep forgetting about Roy's momentum from starting a walk in the other direction, or from crouch too. It made me want to try D tilt then walking in the other direction for maybe some huge momentum swing but I forgot you can't walk/turnaround after d tilt in this game. I remember in brawl some characters had momentum from doing this but that's probably why you can't anymore.

I don't walk as much as I should lol, but I definitely use both. Especially paired with jumps. Using dash momentum paired with his air speed allows for some interesting movement options, since his weaving mid air is a lot slower, so mixing up your transitioning from ground using his dash forwards and back jump is kind of useful.

 

[Jiom]

I don't walk as much as I should lol, but I definitely use both. Especially paired with jumps. Using dash momentum paired with his air speed allows for some interesting movement options, since his weaving mid air is a lot slower, so mixing up your transitioning from ground using his dash forwards and back jump is kind of useful.

I don't know if it makes DED connect easier but I use his dash and jump moment for the first hit since it seems to move Roy slightly forwards. And I need to incorporate more defensive tactics into my gameplay, sometimes I let Roy's speed get to my head so I often forget about defensive options completely, as effect my defense/retreat skills need some retuning. Roy's tomahawk game is really good to. Dash forwards back jump sounds like something I definitely was looking for though, it seems simple enough for me to not have trouble implementing. Thanks

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

What approach options does Roy have? I've been trying Nair, but it's not working for me. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Caliph]

What approach options does Roy have? I've been trying Nair, but it's not working for me. Anyone have any ideas?

He kinda lacks approach options, but Nair can be good if you space it to the tip of his sword. Cross up uairs are good, as if you land one you can usually combo it into another move, if you land it. D-ilt can also be good as it comes out quick, and generally safe on shield, also consider putting tomahawks into your approaching game, as it's pretty good on him.

Those are all I can think of, if there's anymore someone let me know.

Hope this helps!

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Is D-Throw to up B true at kill percents or can it be DIed. If so, what direction should it be DIed.

 

[Caliph]

Is D-Throw to up B true at kill percents or can it be DIed. If so, what direction should it be DIed.

I'm sure that d-throw to up b isn't true at any percents (iirc). Aside from it being DIed, your opponent could throw out an anti air, or just air Dodge through it. As for your question, if they DI you can buffer the input for the up b horizontality, and not sure about what happens if they DI in. Thomas know more about this, but I hope this helped!

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'm sure that d-throw to up b isn't true at any percents (iirc). Aside from it being DIed, your opponent could throw out an anti air, or just air Dodge through it. As for your question, if they DI you can buffer the input for the up b horizontality, and not sure about what happens if they DI in. Thomas know more about this, but I hope this helped!

Alright thanks. Main reason I asked is because I've been hit by this consistently no matter what I did (airdodge, counter attack, DI away) against other Roys so I assumed it was true.

 

[ItsFX]

Alright thanks. Main reason I asked is because I've been hit by this consistently no matter what I did (airdodge, counter attack, DI away) against other Roys so I assumed it was true.

DI in and it can never hit.

 

[Serew]

Is D-Throw to up B true at kill percents or can it be DIed. If so, what direction should it be DIed.

I'm sure that d-throw to up b isn't true at any percents (iirc). Aside from it being DIed, your opponent could throw out an anti air, or just air Dodge through it. As for your question, if they DI you can buffer the input for the up b horizontality, and not sure about what happens if they DI in. Thomas know more about this, but I hope this helped!

I assume with Thomas you mean me? XD (people here won't know who i am if you meant me )

But yeah, it can be escaped out of. Not sure if you use it at lower %'s but there are way better combo moves, but i assume you know that XD
some people also say Jab up B is true kill confirm at times, it isn't. If people DI out the jab UP B won't connect in the usual %'s people mention. Cause if people DI jab wrong, it'll connect at 110% or something IIRC, But if they DI blazer right, it won't kill yet. Once blazer kills they're already out of jab % (but yeah it is something with bad DI i suppose. just very risky and definitely not good on dthrow) i have used fthrow chase blazer sometimes though, it works if you read the jump. Just have to keep in mind that blazer is a very risky move

 

[Caliph]

I assume with Thomas you mean me? XD (people here won't know who i am if you meant me )

But yeah, it can be escaped out of. Not sure if you use it at lower %'s but there are way better combo moves, but i assume you know that XD
some people also say Jab up B is true kill confirm at times, it isn't. If people DI out the jab UP B won't connect in the usual %'s people mention. Cause if people DI jab wrong, it'll connect at 110% or something IIRC, But if they DI blazer right, it won't kill yet. Once blazer kills they're already out of jab % (but yeah it is something with bad DI i suppose. just very risky and definitely not good on dthrow) i have used fthrow chase blazer sometimes though, it works if you read the jump. Just have to keep in mind that blazer is a very risky move

Yeah I meant to Thomsa, but autocorrect changed it to Thomas, but I guess I have to call you Serew. My bad, but thanks for clarifying the question, actually learned a little more out of that.

 

[EnGarde]

/tts Fire Thomsa Fish Serew Fire said...

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dthrow up+b is a sub-optimal combo. Yes, it does work, but other options net us more damage and do not potentially get us punished while we're trapped in end lag (yes, I've been punished on hit on blazer at low percents before ).

 

[Theosmeo]

Hey, I've been labbing with roy recently and conceptually discovered an anti-projectile neutral strategy. If playing someone with a strong projectile(such as luigi's fireball) the player will likely throw it low to halt approach, force shield, or a jumping approach. If you reverse short hop fast fall up air you'll go over the projectile and the late up air will pop them up, more followups are available too now because of the 1.1.4 patch reducing landing lag. This would lead into Nair for damage or Bair for kill power and stage control.

 

[Caliph]

Hey, I've been labbing with roy recently and conceptually discovered an anti-projectile neutral strategy. If playing someone with a strong projectile(such as luigi's fireball) the player will likely throw it low to halt approach, force shield, or a jumping approach. If you reverse short hop fast fall up air you'll go over the projectile and the late up air will pop them up, more followups are available too now because of the 1.1.4 patch reducing landing lag. This would lead into Nair for damage or Bair for kill power and stage control.

It seems interesting, I'll look more into it when I have time. Are there any limitations to the tech and would it work on most projectiles?

 

[Serew]

That's how falling up air works guys XD
Falling up air is still underrated (also most falling up air combos were already worked before landing lag buffs.)
Up air is a great combo starter,combo extender,crossup tool, and at high %'s sour spot can set up for kills similar to nair 1

 

[Theosmeo]

It seems interesting, I'll look more into it when I have time. Are there any limitations to the tech and would it work on most projectiles?

Probably not a Cloud Blade Beam which is too tall or a projectile like mario's fire balls which aren't often used on the ground.

It seems useful against needles or Pk fires

That's how falling up air works guys XD
Falling up air is still underrated (also most falling up air combos were already worked before landing lag buffs.)
Up air is a great combo starter,combo extender,crossup tool, and at high %'s sour spot can set up for kills similar to nair 1

Yeah I know, the way the blade just snakes over looks really cool though

 

[Jiom]

What I've been trying to do lately vs projectiles is just beat them out cleanly. A lot of low damage projectiles get beaten out by our first hit of nair, but uair easier to hit projectiles with.

 

[Halcy0n]

Why does the sweetspot on Roy's upair deal only 9%?

 

[ItsFX]

Why does the sweetspot on Roy's upair deal only 9%?

What kind of a question is that lol

 

[Halcy0n]

What kind of a question is that lol

Its the kind of question that gets asked when a move fails to kill of the top at a reasonable percent

 

[Serew]

it's a great combo and juggling tool. Just not a kill move at all (well i guess in doubles with terrible DI it happened to me)
Both it's sweet spots and sourspots can be used to combo depending on %.

 

[Theosmeo]

I think it'd be a good way to round out his moveset if it had less endlag and air blazer had more kill power. Then he could Uair to Blazer as a kill confirm. Right now it's useful and has low landing lag but way to much FAF.

 

[DJ Backwards]

I think it'd be a good way to round out his moveset if it had less endlag and air blazer had more kill power. Then he could Uair to Blazer as a kill confirm. Right now it's useful and has low landing lag but way to much FAF.

Personally I think a better way to round out his moveset would be a throw that was worth a damn at high percent. Like lowering the end lag on back throw so it can combo into bair consistently.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Okay, so big question. On what characters is Jab to Bair a true confirm? I saw Ryo use it to finish Fatality.

 

[Serew]

Okay, so big question. On what characters is Jab to Bair a true confirm? I saw Ryo use it to finish Fatality.

I'm almost completely sure it's not a true confirm and is the same situation as Jab->up B and jab -> fair, DIing Jab correctly usually ruins those combos or puts them into sourspot range.
However, alot of people don't DI jab correctly cause of it being so sudden. And using bair is not a big commitment, making this a good option anyways as opposed to Jab -> Up b (which also is more of a horizontal kill move with correct DI)

EDIT: I'd like to note that sour spot back air also sends at a pretty low angle making followups better than sour fairs

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Do you feel Roy is viable and only in mid-tier due solely because of his lack of representation?