TAS request service

[B Link]

I guess the service is open again See below.

Spoiler

I'm now accepting TAS requests.

Things that disincline me to accept a request:
- not interesting
- too long to do
- has to do with locating precise coordinates (e.g I'm too lazy to find out the exact coordinates for Falcons upb dive cancel, or pikas upb trick in btp)

I'll probably always accept:
- seeing if combos connect
- seeing if X shield pressure is inescapable
- how many frames of DI does X move have?
- etc.

I will upload videos with inputs displayed if requested.

REQUESTS COMPLETED
- does shine -> dash -> shine connect on Luigi with no DI?
- perfect fox shine vs perfect yoshi parry
- DK's Tent Gimp trouble
- Mario's Down B: in the air frames and clanking
- Is pika F throw -> F throw on Falcon & Mario real?
- Is Yoshi djc bair -> reverse nair on Pikachu at 0% real?
- Does Kirby bthrow -> bthrow on Pika/Yoshi work at 0%?
- Does Kirby bthrow turn around upB work on Kirby/Pika at 0%?
- Can you triple shine Luigi if Luigi doesn't DI?
- Can you triple shine DK while stationary?
- What frame does Mario's "2nd down B" fail to rise when hit the first time?
- Pikachu's dash grab range vs Falcon's dash grab range agasint Kirby
- Pikachu's UpB Stall: Vulnerable frames
- Jumping while sliding off edges
- Ness Bair, Dash-A, Dash-Grab vs Kirby UpTilt

Post here with your request, or PM me if you want it to be private.

Also feel free to let me know if you just have general ideas about what you want to see. I posted this to mainly find out cool ideas and interesting stuff anyway.

 

[caneut]

can you tas fox and why hes the best

 

[B Link]

edit: got trolled

 

[caneut]

im never even going to give any of your videos a single view let alone like or sub

 

[B Link]

Oh yeah, this is why I don't post on smashboards anymore. Thanks for reminding me lol. =)

 

[Uair]

Figure out DK **** tent gimp, It always finishes with B.

I used to know it on a few chars like Falcon and link but I couldn't figure it out last time I was trying.

 

[The Star King]

1. Is Mario's downb airborne frame 1? This is relevant to clanking purposes.

You can test whether its frame 1 can clank with weak enough projectiles (and the attack ends, as opposed to "eating" the projectile), or whether it will get hit by a move like DK's down-b which can only hit grounded opponents.

2. http://smashboards.com/threads/dk-infinite-throw-trap-technical-data.344865/#post-16527041

Does that mean at high enough %'s (and thus higher frame advantage) this is a true infinite?

 

[B Link]

Figure out DK **** tent gimp, It always finishes with B.

I used to know it on a few chars like Falcon and link but I couldn't figure it out last time I was trying.

This bothered me for a while. The problem -I- was having was that I couldn't grab them when I started the "walking forward phase" and threw Falcon/Link off both walls. It looked as if they kept being able to touch the ground and tech before I could re-grab.

Turning on hitbox mode made me realize I had forgotten about wall invincibility.

Basically you need to get Falcon or Link to a high enough % before you start throwing them off both walls, otherwise they will touch the floor during invincibility frames, making it impossible to re-grab them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZOGUfX_IeA

Falcon gets to a high enough % before I move forward.

1. Is Mario's downb airborne frame 1? This is relevant to clanking purposes.

You can test whether its frame 1 can clank with weak enough projectiles (and the attack ends, as opposed to "eating" the projectile), or whether it will get hit by a move like DK's down-b which can only hit grounded opponents.

2. http://smashboards.com/threads/dk-infinite-throw-trap-technical-data.344865/#post-16527041

Does that mean at high enough %'s (and thus higher frame advantage) this is a true infinite?

1. Yes. Madao's cheat table shows that on Frame 1 Mario's "in the air flag" goes from 0 (pre-attack) to 1 (first frame of attack, and so on...).

Because of this DK's down B won't hit it during the first frame, and the first few frames, since Mario is still in the air for a couple of frames.

Mario then proceeds to touch the ground mid-attack, unless you rapidly press B to move him up, so DK's Down B can hit Mario if you don't mash.

...

CLANKING

Mario's down B seems to clank only during its later hitbox phases...I got it to clank with Samus' non-charged B mid-attack or so; funnily enough it eats up all projectiles during the beginning frames, except Fox's laser, where it just goes through.

When it clanked with the Samus non-charged B, Mario was "free" in 2 frames.

I got tired but I can work out the details later about this "clanking hitbox phase" & what projectiles clank during it, if you want.

2. I tested 150% and 200% and Yoshi still had the 4 frame advantage thing. Also, I think at 200% Yoshi began to go behind DK; DK still couldn't re-grab though. At 250% Yoshi goes into a falling stage or w/e, where Yoshi can start teching instead of just landing. DK, even perfectly, can't turn around quickly enough and re-grab. At ultra high percents (e.g. 999%) Yoshi gets sent so far away just by escaping that DK can't continue with anything. It's not a true infinite =(

Extra note: As Yoshi's % gets higher you have to mash longer to escape.

Thanks for the questions. Keep 'em coming.

 

[firo]

The videos that Jpleal10 made about shieldbreak combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88okP5DPeFs&list=PLF5B101BEFF437B3D&index=1

If I remember correctly, those were made before it was (at least widely) known that it is better to continue to hold Z while trying to get out of shield which saves a few frames. I've always wondered whether those videos were made with that knowledge. Looking at the link and samus ones, for instance, it looks like Falcon is in the process of dropping his shield in a few of the combos. It would be great to confirm/deny these shieldbreaks for the characters that don't normally break them.

 

[The Star King]

CLANKING

Mario's down B seems to clank only during its later hitbox phases...I got it to clank with Samus' non-charged B mid-attack or so; funnily enough it eats up all projectiles during the beginning frames, except Fox's laser, where it just goes through.

When it clanked with the Samus non-charged B, Mario was "free" in 2 frames.

I got tired but I can work out the details later about this "clanking hitbox phase" & what projectiles clank during it, if you want.

Yeah that was the purpose of my question. Only ground moves can clank, not air moves. So the beginning of Mario's downb can't clank.

Thanks for answering my questions! This is a super cool thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/pikachu-discussion.288190/page-11#post-20530233 how about trying to get this?

The videos that Jpleal10 made about shieldbreak combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88okP5DPeFs&list=PLF5B101BEFF437B3D&index=1

If I remember correctly, those were made before it was (at least widely) known that it is better to continue to hold Z while trying to get out of shield which saves a few frames. I've always wondered whether those videos were made with that knowledge. Looking at the link and samus ones, for instance, it looks like Falcon is in the process of dropping his shield in a few of the combos. It would be great to confirm/deny these shieldbreaks for the characters that don't normally break them.

IIRC someone (mixa or Sangoku I think) confirmed those videos aren't legit.

 

[Uair]

Yeah that was the purpose of my question. Only ground moves can clank, not air moves. So the beginning of Mario's downb can't clank.

Thanks for answering my questions! This is a super cool thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/pikachu-discussion.288190/page-11#post-20530233 how about trying to get this?



IIRC someone (mixa or Sangoku I think) confirmed those videos aren't legit.

Some of these combos are frame perfect, like the Mario double dair uair one or DK Fair, Fsmash, Dsmash I think it was. Realistically the only combos that'll work are the luigi ones besides the frame perfect dair one, and like kirby, yoshi, ness, jiggly, samus, etc.. all the none exactly 1 frame precise shieldbreaks. And whoever confirmed the videos aren't legit didn't know what they were doing. You have to literally be frame perfect for some of these combos, and even if the 2nd player does this,

it is better to continue to hold Z while trying to get out of shield which saves a few frames.

Saving the 2 or 3 frames of animation (when you don't hold shield in shield stun tapping C/up you have animation of letting shield go then jump) it still won't be able to get out of some of these combos like the DK one for example. Even though that one is literally frame perfect the shield stun from the Fair gives you enough time to Fsmash if you did it literally frame perfect even if they are trying to Shield jump out. At most if you are late and they are on time you'll still hit them but they'll be out their shield.

These combos definitely work for the most part, if you had some kind of video confirmation proof of this like say if B link tested these combos out while trying Shield jump with p2, then I'll believe your opinions.

 

[The Star King]

Some of these combos are frame perfect, like the Mario double dair uair one or DK Fair, Fsmash, Dsmash I think it was. Realistically the only combos that'll work are the luigi ones besides the frame perfect dair one, and like kirby, yoshi, ness, jiggly, samus, etc.. all the none exactly 1 frame precise shieldbreaks. And whoever confirmed the videos aren't legit didn't know what they were doing. You have to literally be frame perfect for some of these combos, and even if the 2nd player does this,

found the posts

http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...king-a-question.237869/page-207#post-16623672

http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...king-a-question.237869/page-209#post-16700383

I trust mixa more than you.

 

[Uair]

found the posts

http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...king-a-question.237869/page-207#post-16623672

http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-...king-a-question.237869/page-209#post-16700383

I trust mixa more than you.

These combos definitely work for the most part

I never specifically said which combo, you gave specific links to combos that didn't work. I was speaking on the first few ones I saw and the easy samus Dair B fsmash. I never implied every single combo worked, I specifically implied that there was small few that did not work.

 

[B Link]

Only ground moves can clank, not air moves.

Wow I didn't know this lol. I mean of course I've never seen air attacks clank, but I never made explicit the principle at work.

http://smashboards.com/threads/pikachu-discussion.288190/page-11#post-20530233 how about trying to get this?

I think I've done that before by ledge cancelling the running phase before the 2nd grab. I'm gonna try this later.

EDIT: Ya it works. 1 frame window:
http://youtu.be/VMhPCV21fz8

SHIELD BREAKER COMBOS: JPLEAL10 Link Shield Breaker Combo 1

In short, this does not shield break. Falcon can escape.

In detail:

Spoiler

I'll start off by saying it's very close to a shield break. In fact it's only 1 frame off (the second fair does -not- "connect"). I have good reason to believe this is because he tested the escape with the MUPEN TAS emulator, which mistakenly adds an extra frame of delay to the inputs. I am using an emulator with no frame delay.

Jpleal10's frame process (note: don't mind the 5000 or w/e. The only thing that matters is the # of frames in between the inputs. That's how you know it's precisely recreated):

5412 -- jump
5442 -- fair
5457 -- fair hits
5471 -- input jump (earliest frame possible)
5478 -- fair buffer
5504 -- fair hits (1 frame too late)

For it to work, fair needs to hit on frame 5503. The fair stuns for 25 frames. Jpleal used frame 5504, I played his video frame by frame and matched the animations of the attack. I am 100% certain it is a perfect match.

Anyway, let's say Jpleal wanted to try and hit on frame 5503 anywa, to save his combo. Well, fair cannot hit on frame 5503, because the hitbox goes in front of falcon or something. It just misses no matter what. I have played around with this about 20 times, I feel pretty confident that you can't hit falcon on this frame.

Mine and Jpleal's frame process is 100% perfect. All moves are done as perfectly as they can be.

"Proof" I'm not bs'ing I guess, lol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mercenariez/sb1_zpsgkqv6gse.png -- Frame 5457 -- first Fair (latest possible frame)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mercenariez/sb3_zpseow2qjbw.png -- Frame 5503 -- can't hit falcon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mercenariez/sb4_zpskpsqbolo.png -- Frame 5504 -- JPLEAL10 and mine side by side, in mine I show falcon escaping, yes I did everything before this attack perfectly too. Reviewed/re-checked around 10 times.

Let me know which specific ones you want me to test next, if it all. There's too many to do so I probably won't do them all. I have a feeling some of them will be like the one above (1 frame off cuz of the mupen thing) but you never know.

 

[The Star King]

is pika fthrow fthrow on mario real

does yoshi bair -> djc nair combo on pika at 0% (sheer is saying that the 1 frame training mode combo meter error is causing the combo meter to lie lol)

I never specifically said which combo, you gave specific links to combos that didn't work. I was speaking on the first few ones I saw and the easy samus Dair B fsmash. I never implied every single combo worked, I specifically implied that there was small few that did not work.

ok well you said "And whoever confirmed the videos aren't legit didn't know what they were doing" which made it sound like you thought mixa was wrong when he wasn't. not legit means some of the shieldbreak combos don't work, not all. if we know that JPleal's method was flawed, we can't use the videos as a resource anymore since we can't know what works and what doesn't from the video alone

 

[Compatible]

Wow I didn't know this lol. I mean of course I've never seen air attacks clank, but I never made explicit the principle at work.


I think I've done that before by ledge cancelling the running phase before the 2nd grab. I'm gonna try this later.

I'm pretty sure I have had Jigg's rest clank in the air playing Zero. yes?

 

[Fireblaster]

I'm pretty sure I have had Jigg's rest clank in the air playing Zero. yes?

No. Only ground to ground interactions clank. You can clank on the ground vs projectiles without transcendent priority (fireballs, samus B).

 

[Uair]

is pika fthrow fthrow on mario real

does yoshi bair -> djc nair combo on pika at 0% (sheer is saying that the 1 frame training mode combo meter error is causing the combo meter to lie lol)



ok well you said "And whoever confirmed the videos aren't legit didn't know what they were doing" which made it sound like you thought mixa was wrong when he wasn't. not legit means some of the shieldbreak combos don't work, not all. if we know that JPleal's method was flawed, we can't use the videos as a resource anymore since we can't know what works and what doesn't from the video alone

Seems you see these videos as a resource as you said, I saw the videos as entertainment not in anyway shape or form a resource to play smash64 with. Sorry for the misconception, and just to point out most of these combos are frame perfect timed jumps IE Jiggly's 2nd and third. You should know you're not going to get a consistent shieldbreaker combo like of DK's or something from his videos. At most you might get off some of the easier to moderately hard ones like Falcon's third Dair rising Uair falling Uair Pivot downB which is nearly frame perfect for dash then falcon kick.

 

[Shears]

I'm pretty sure I have had Jigg's rest clank in the air playing Zero. yes?

You can't clank in the air but you could have two moves with invincibility "clank" in the air. Jiggs rest and fox shine on the same frame would have them both not hitting each other but it won't have any clank bubbles. Same with Jiggs on Samus upb which will actually make the rest connecting sound because samus isn't intangible.

 

[B Link]

is pika fthrow fthrow on mario real

does yoshi bair -> djc nair combo on pika at 0% (sheer is saying that the 1 frame training mode combo meter error is causing the combo meter to lie lol)

1) Well this one surprised me. Yes it does connect at 0%, 2 frame window. Mario goes pretty high after the fthrow though so you have to be positioned such that he doesn't go on to one of the platforms (Dreamland). A good position is right under either platform =P.

2) I mean, I don't know if sheer wants to know if it practically connects? Well in TAS it looks like you have a couple of frames of leeway here (so yes, it does connect). Pika does recover kind of quickly, I suppose, after the bair.

Hope this helps. Interesting stuff btw.

 

[The Star King]

ok a certain someone claims that Kirby bthrow to regrab bthrow may work on Pika at 0 and bthrow to bthrow to bthrow works on Yoshi at 0. confirm or deny?

 

[B Link]

ok a certain someone claims that Kirby bthrow to regrab bthrow may work on Pika at 0 and bthrow to bthrow to bthrow works on Yoshi at 0. confirm or deny?

Deny to both.

Double bthrow on yoshi only works if Kirby is big. Also, it's frame perfect. Triple bthrow won't work either way.

You can bthrow yoshi four times in the hyrule box (just did this one for fun).

https://youtu.be/otC8do-uO7U

 

[The Star King]

ok. all my wow @ big kirby affecting double bthrow on yoshi. good job at being thorough and testing both

 

[The Star King]

ok now people are saying kirby bthrow -> turn around dash grounded upb works on pika/kirby at 0/low %s. test please? :]

 

[B Link]

No, doesn't work. Happy holidays

Spoiler

Tried all variations of kirby sizes. First clip is Big Kirby against Pikachu. Second clip is Big Kirby against Big Kirby.
https://youtu.be/ZYJGGyMsZ-A

 

[Kimimaru]

Which frame does Mario lose his Down + B's ability to give him height? It seems if he gets hit out of it during the animation, he can do it again, but I think he loses it if he gets hit during the end of the animation.

 

[Combo Blaze]

Can you make a video showing what frames falcon can grab a kirby after the uptilt? Like at what time during a kirby's uptilt can falcon start approaching for a grab, from shortest to farthest range, from earliest to latest window? Or just whatever is easiest for you to do.

 

[B Link]

If Falcon does a perfect dash grab (dash 1 frame, grab immediately on the next frame) Falcon can grab Kirby during frames 6 to 14 of Kirby's Up Tilt (9 frame/150 millisecond/0.15 second window).

Spoiler

Falcon dash grab total frames: 7 (1 frame dash, 6 frames grab hitbox startup)

---

Attacking on Frame 5 of Kirby's Up Tilt is too early; you will get hit by Up Tilt's weak hitbox.

Frame 15 is too late. If Kirby does the next Up Tilt frame perfectly, Falcon will get hit by the 2nd Up Tilt's beginning frame.

Funnily enough, Falcon's grab out-prioritized Kirby's Up Tilt on frame 14. I'm not sure if it was because Falcon was 1st player.

Notes:
- Variance would occur if you grabbed late (e.g. dash 1 frame, grab 2 frames later, 3 frames later, etc.). Since people MIGHT not do it perfectly, I'd suggest aiming for Frame 6 of Kirby's Hitbox, that way you have leeway to grab late. I will note though that it looks like most players are still dash-grabbing too early though.
- Position is very important. Too far and you'll miss, even if your hitbox looks like it's "on top" of Kirby's hurtbox. It misses cuz the game is 3d, and it looks like the grab hitbox is too far off to "Kirby's right" (i.e. imagine you were Kirby; Kirby's right hand side). Too close and you'll get hit during the early frames of the Up Tilt hitbox.

From testing, I'd suggest to try and stay as close to Kirby's Up Tilt hitbox (imagining it's range) as possible, whereby you wouldn't get hit by the early frames.

Kirby's Up Tilt:
- Frames 1-3: Startup
- Frames 4-11: Hitbox
- Frames 11-17: Hitlag

VIDEO
https://youtu.be/THnVbVzywlY

I might do the Mario Down B stuff later if I feel like it. I've been interested in Kirby Up Tilt stuff for a while so I did that one first.

Thanks for the requests.

 

[Fireblaster]

If Falcon does a perfect dash grab (dash 1 frame, grab immediately on the next frame) Falcon can grab Kirby during frames 6 to 14 of Kirby's Up Tilt (9 frame/150 millisecond/0.15 second window).

Spoiler

Falcon dash grab total frames: 7 (1 frame dash, 6 frames grab hitbox startup)

---

Attacking on Frame 5 of Kirby's Up Tilt is too early; you will get hit by Up Tilt's weak hitbox.

Frame 15 is too late. If Kirby does the next Up Tilt frame perfectly, Falcon will get hit by the 2nd Up Tilt's beginning frame.

Funnily enough, Falcon's grab out-prioritized Kirby's Up Tilt on frame 14. I'm not sure if it was because Falcon was 1st player.

Notes:
- Variance would occur if you grabbed late (e.g. dash 1 frame, grab 2 frames later, 3 frames later, etc.). Since people MIGHT not do it perfectly, I'd suggest aiming for Frame 6 of Kirby's Hitbox, that way you have leeway to grab late. I will note though that it looks like most players are still dash-grabbing too early though.
- Position is very important. Too far and you'll miss, even if your hitbox looks like it's "on top" of Kirby's hurtbox. It misses cuz the game is 3d, and it looks like the grab hitbox is too far off to "Kirby's right" (i.e. imagine you were Kirby; Kirby's right hand side). Too close and you'll get hit during the early frames of the Up Tilt hitbox.

From testing, I'd suggest to try and stay as close to Kirby's Up Tilt hitbox (imagining it's range) as possible, whereby you wouldn't get hit by the early frames.

Kirby's Up Tilt:
- Frames 1-3: Startup
- Frames 4-11: Hitbox
- Frames 11-17: Hitlag

VIDEO
https://youtu.be/THnVbVzywlY

I might do the Mario Down B stuff later if I feel like it. I've been interested in Kirby Up Tilt stuff for a while so I did that one first.

Thanks for the requests.

You don't have to make a video but what would be pikachu's range in this scenario instead of falcon? I'd imagine it's a few frames shorter.

 

[B Link]

Which frame does Mario lose his Down + B's ability to give him height? It seems if he gets hit out of it during the animation, he can do it again, but I think he loses it if he gets hit during the end of the animation.

Did some testing today. I used Fox's laser to hit Mario.

If Mario gets hit on Frames 1-41, Mario can still rise. 41 is the last frame that allows for this.
If Mario gets hit on Frames 42-86, (I only tested Frame 42 and 44, but the trend would likely continue) it seems that Mario cannot rise anymore. 42 being the first frame that prevents Mario's rising.

So I guess the answer is Frame 41.

I'll do Fireblaster's next since I couldn't get Sextc's standing triple shine to work.

EDIT: Lol frame 41 is the last frame before Mario starts doing his starfish pose.

 

[T Brett]

asking you instead of searching or asking someone who might know:
when pika up-b ledge stalls, what frame gap could someone go out and spike or dtilt etc when rat disengages from ledge?
cheers

 

[B Link]

You don't have to make a video but what would be pikachu's range in this scenario instead of falcon? I'd imagine it's a few frames shorter.

Falcon travels about one Pikachu hurtbox in length farther than Pikachu at most.

It's hard to talk about "frame distance" because dash speed not only varies amongst characters, but also fluctuates in the dash animation itself (e.g. the middle is faster than the start). Roughly speaking though, the difference is about "3-4 frames" longer at max (Falcon) dash speed. *This obviously does not mean that Falcon can grab Kirby 3-4 frames quicker than Pikachu*

asking you instead of searching or asking someone who might know:
when pika up-b ledge stalls, what frame gap could someone go out and spike or dtilt etc when rat disengages from ledge?
cheers

First, if rat has just grabbed the ledge, it's invincible for 62 frames unless it lets go earlier.

Next, the moment rat disengages from the ledge, it is vulnerable (for 5 frames or so, depending on how long it delays the 2nd jump). Then, rat uses 2nd jump (lasts for 8-10 frames or so). The moment rat uses UpB (marker is the "ping" sound or w/e) it becomes invincible for 21 frames. Then, after invincibility (i.e. during the actual "movement" phase), there are 0-2 vulnerability frames until it touches the ledge and restarts the sequence.

Movement phase (this is the diagonal UpB "towards the ledge" phase): I'd say a good human probably would be able to keep getting 1 frame of vulnerability here at best. This was the case when I practiced like 19/20 times. The 1/20 I accidentally somehow got it to be 0 frames of vulnerability, but I doubt people could pull this off regularly.

EDIT: After watching Isai at SSC, it turns out you can pull of the 0 frames of vulnerability at the end rather consistently.

So I'd say they're most vulnerable during the let go & jump part. But you'd have to do something pretty fast to catch them in 15 frames (15 is probably the average total of vulnerable frames if a Pikachu does it well), since dashing to the edge takes like 10 frames already. I think you could catch the rat if he kept spamming it, but not if he played smart and mixed his getups.

 

[Mrsir]

Hi B Link, can you test this out? I discovered a while back that if you run to the end of the ledge with Samus and do a run-> shorthop -> dair, you can get an immediate dair closer to the ledge rather than running off and doing a dair. It could be that its stick control and im pushing the stick towards the ledge but im not sure. Can you verify if this is true or am i being delusional? Here are two gifs: the first is running off and doing a diar the second is doing the run-> sh -> dair. You can also do this with bair and fair. I found it more useful with dair though.

Run-off dair:
http://giphy.com/gifs/3oxRmufhgYwEBBP83e

Run -> Sh -> Dair:
http://giphy.com/gifs/l3nW3zVSKGuiwz8fm

 

[B Link]

^Oddly enough, this is true. If you jump 3 or less frames before running off the edge, samus will sort of "slide" off the edge mid-jump animation, and for whatever reason will be slightly closer to the ledge (farther right and up) than if you just ran off normally. The difference in distance doesn't seem -that- significant though: about half of one of those fence "sections" on the left side of the stage.

EDIT: Actually, doesn't seem that odd if you think about teleports with jiggz or samus off the edge. "Jump cancelling" I guess, lol.

 

[Mrsir]

I just tried this on every character, it works on each (platform edges and ledge). Wouldn't recommend on Yoshi.

 

[The Star King]

not weird, you lose speed by initiating jump squat and thus travel less off the edge when you slide off

 

[firo]

If you're still willing to look at kirby uptilt stuff...

Does ness have any approaches that beat repeated uptilts (like falcon's dash grab)? I know down smash is disjointed enough to get through, but are back air, dash attack, or dash grab safe? A frame breakdown of that would be really helpful for the matchup.

 

[B Link]

I'm going to do Firo's Ness vs Kirby UpTilt and then I'm going to take a break for a while. I've done 15 requests in total so far.

Service is now closed as of today. Thank you for the requests.

Feel free to post more requests/ideas, just don't expect them to be done anytime soon.

EDIT: Ok done:

Spoiler

Think it's most practical to not talk about it since it's so complicated. Here's an excel document if you want to see the frame breakdowns in a nice visual way:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/arrha4w9ipj17fs/Ness vs Kirby UpTilt.xlsx?dl=0

I recommend downloading it, not viewing it online, cuz then you can see the numbers in the columns and rows (I've made them match the frame counts).

Here's the pics for the range distance you'll need to be for each:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7p5kjg47gj6cmhr/bair.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifxxcdm51ach5mr/dash attack.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxv09x8vs376kw8/dash grab.png?dl=0

Conclusions:
- All 3 can theoretically work
- In my testing experience, I would say dash grab is most practical, then dash-a, then bair (if we're talking clean hits, I mean. If you like clanking and trading then they're all ok I guess lol).

 

[hectohertz]

does pikachu have a true shieldbreak combo? i was told the triple usmash isnt actually real

 

[firo]

Thanks B Link, that info is very helpful. I would not have guessed that dash grab was the fastest. 5 frames seems within the range of being practical enough to practice.

There are other ness stuff I've been wondering about, like whether it is reasonable to get dairs or dtilts out fast enough to prevent characters from dropping off ledges, so if you are ever willing to do more, I'll have more to ask.