Q&A "The Clinic"- Dr. Mario Q&A Thread

[A2ZOMG]

Care to explain why it isn't viable? (Up B)

Default Up-B's utility as a KO move and a defensive option is really just god tier good, and sacrificing that for a move that only gives you a recovery boost really isn't worth it.

Default Up-B out of shield punishes crossovers like nobody's business, can interrupt blocked Jab strings easily, is a fantastic aerial KO move when you bait an airdodge, is one of Doc's most devastating out of Dash punishes, honestly why would you give up what is arguably a top 10 move in the entire game? Just for a little more recovery distance which you already get from Soaring Tornado?

 

[Shrooms2090]

Default Up-B's utility as a KO move and a defensive option is really just god tier good, and sacrificing that for a move that only gives you a recovery boost really isn't worth it.

Default Up-B out of shield punishes crossovers like nobody's business, can interrupt blocked Jab strings easily, is a fantastic aerial KO move when you bait an airdodge, is one of Doc's most devastating out of Dash punishes, honestly why would you give up what is arguably a top 10 move in the entire game? Just for a little more recovery distance which you already get from Soaring Tornado?

Great points, its just that i have always been SDing by going deep and having a crappy recovery before customs were allowed, so i guess i always had recovery in mind while playing him. Will switch and try to use the defalut one though!

 

[Sykkamorre]

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone else has spotted this hitbox on Dair which hits for 5%?

If so, where the hell is it?
If not, dude there's a weird hitbox that hits for 5%!

 

[kacol321]

Do you know where the hitbox is?

 

[Sykkamorre]

Seemed to be at his feet somewhere. I'd test more but I'm not at my Wii U at the moment.

Edit: This hitbox is on the back of his heel, seems you've gotta be faceing away to land it.

Double edit: After a bit of research, I have deconfirmed this with A2's assistance. It seems that it was the last loop hitbox and the final hitbox merging together. Curses.

 

[Jaycee_023]

Which of these would be considered the worst matchup for the good Doctor?

 

[itsameSMB]

Which of these would be considered the worst matchup for the good Doctor?

Doc can just pepper him with pills because of his huge hitbox, staggering a lot of Bowser's approaches. Not too worried about Bowser.

A bit trickier imo since Zamus has all that mobility and repositioning at her disposal, But at least the ZSS's I've played seem to favor using paralyzer (which is very easily caped back and capitalized by Doc).

I ban Final destination and stand on the top platform. GG

Pretty close to a mirror match. If doc can control center stage, though, most of the benefits plumber Mario has become irrelevant imo.

Probably the trickiest of your secondaries you mentioned. Villager can throw out so many projectiles that it's hard for Doc to get in at all. Then again, that means most of the attacks can be caped, so as long as he isn't trying to recover, he can somwhat mitigate it.

Haven't played a lot of Lucas players yet, so I can't really offer much insight.

 

[Underhill]

Which of these would be considered the worst matchup for the good Doctor?

: I think Doc can hang in there with Bowser despise of him having range, power, ground speed, and being heavy; However, Doc can also kill, combo, and edgeguard. Boswer can get comboed easily because of his large size, and being heavy. Doc's ko set ups work on Bowser as well. Bettter air game and get Bowser juggled as well, but Doc's juggled too. Stages with platforms work for Bowser since he's big.
: Zero suit Samus is a tough cookie because of her mobility and range; However, the Doc has both power and punishing game. She can also snipe his appoarches both the ground and in the air since he's slow on both fields. Not only Doc is kinda combo food for her due to his weight and falling speed, but gimpble because of his linear recovery. Doc can also get juggled by her with up smash, up air(to boast kick if he's hit), since she's tall and he's out ranged in the air. What the Doc has on Samus, lets see. If she miss a grab, free punish for endlag and Doc's grab is better. Samus can die easily from Doc's attacks since she's light. Some combos might work on Samus because of her height and he can also break out of her combos with n-air and jump punch. His cape helps against her projectile. Aviod Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, and Dreamland because Samus can use the platforms to her advantage to juggle Doc because of her tall height, mobility, and up smash, short hop n-air, up-air, and z-air.
:Stages with platforms are bad for little Mac because he can't do anything about it due to his bad air game. Doc's edgeguarding game beats little Mac because of his bad recovery and being light. Mobility to the ground for Little Mac, but Doc's ko options are stronger than little mac(even with ko punch).
:Even match. Doc: Power, better edgeguarding, better punishing game, and defensive playstyle. Mario: Mobility, combo potential, better recovery, and rush-down fighter.
: Appoarching with Doc isn't a cakewalk because of his slow mobility and Villager's ability to camp him. Doc has to aviod recovering low or else he's knock out by a bowling ball. N-air I think with Villager can break some of Doc's combos. Doc's ko potential and punishing game is better along with the cape to aviod camping. Villager's ledge game is good against Doc because of the tree, bowling ball, and up smash(if he rolls).
:For Lucas, I'll have to find good Lucas players to face if I'm lucky and my info wouldn't help, but I may have an idea about this MU. Lucas's mobility both in the ground and air is better than Doc, as his appoarches and his z-air to stop Doc's air appoarches. Lucas's recovery is superior to both Doc and Ness because of his z-air ledge grab and better PK thunder, but still gimpble though since Doc has the cape and tornado to add along with his edgeguarding game. Doc's ground game is superior because of better tiles, jabs(along with set ups) and smashes along with his ko potential.

For Lucas, I'll have to play him some more and face some more lucas players because I don't know if the MU even or who's favor. However for the rest above, I have my share of experience since I'm a Doctor main along with Mario, so I hope this helps.

 

[Sari]

Luigi can usually follow up the first or second hit of his jab with a grab: is this the case with Dr. Mario?

 

[sovereigntea]

Do pills have higher hitstun than fireballs or is that just my imagination?
Also has anyone noticed that they charged the hitstun on his f-smash? It no longer stuns right away but rather after the opponent is airborn.

 

[Funkermonster]

How do I get out of Doc's Dthrow followups? I keep hearing people say that he hardy has a combo game at all, but somehow I still get caught in Dthrow > Uairs, Dtilt > Dtilt and if these aren't real don't know how to avoid them. A Doc even once did Dthrow > UpB at around 50-70% on me once in For Glory, and in general I have problems facing Doc and usually don't beat him, this being one of the reasons (aside from my lack of edgeguarding). One of my two characters is a fast faller, the other is heavier than average and also a fast faller , can I still reliably avoid them?

It could just be because I'm playing online though.

 

[sovereigntea]

Doc is less about true combos and more about approximations I feel. That being said the d-throw and d-tilt/u-tilt are great set ups for his true combos.
I can't say I can be of much use in prescribing any tips since I don't normally play against doc but I would say use what little DI you have to try and go sideways once he has you. Doc has trouble going sideways

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Did anyone know that the height gained by doing Tornado after a jump is not only dependent on the momentum but the jump type? I've been trying to do Down Throw to Fair and Down Throw to Tornado and I've had more success with the latter when I full hop. I feel like an idiot for not knowing that

 

[2ManyCooks]

Hey fellow Docs, 2ManyCooks here.

I have been curious for a while now about the legitimacy and applications of Dr. Mario's tornado gimp. This of course is tornadoing offstage, catching someone with one of the middle hit boxes of tornado, and have them be sent down at an awkward angle, often times without a second jump. I have seen this happen a few times with Doctor Mario, but it seems very specific in terms of execution, unlike Luigis. Does anyone have any insight upon how getting this trick to be consistent might become a reality?

Thanks

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Hey fellow Docs, 2ManyCooks here.

I have been curious for a while now about the legitimacy and applications of Dr. Mario's tornado gimp. This of course is tornadoing offstage, catching someone with one of the middle hit boxes of tornado, and have them be sent down at an awkward angle, often times without a second jump. I have seen this happen a few times with Doctor Mario, but it seems very specific in terms of execution, unlike Luigis. Does anyone have any insight upon how getting this trick to be consistent might become a reality?

Thanks

I think it's too inconsistent. You have to hit them with that specific hitbox and then rise, but it' really hard to position.

Credit to Astro for this gif.

https://gfycat.com/DishonestHonorableGalah

btw, do you know where we can see footage of your doc? I saw the doc ditto between you and kenmeister, but that is all i could find.

 

[sovereigntea]

Hey fellow Docs, 2ManyCooks here.

I have been curious for a while now about the legitimacy and applications of Dr. Mario's tornado gimp. This of course is tornadoing offstage, catching someone with one of the middle hit boxes of tornado, and have them be sent down at an awkward angle, often times without a second jump. I have seen this happen a few times with Doctor Mario, but it seems very specific in terms of execution, unlike Luigis. Does anyone have any insight upon how getting this trick to be consistent might become a reality?

Thanks

I got a kill from this yesterday actually. It only works if they are recovering high (doc's moves generally launch high so this is ok). Make sure you tornado while you are still moving upwards to guarantee the best possible lift. Generally you can't go far off stage with this though.

 

[krebstar]

I saw someone mention doc's kill set ups- anyone want to run me through these or point me at a thread/post that has them? Sometimes I have a troubles getting kills.

 

[Specs808]

I think it's too inconsistent. You have to hit them with that specific hitbox and then rise, but it' really hard to position.

Credit to Astro for this gif.

https://gfycat.com/DishonestHonorableGalah

btw, do you know where we can see footage of your doc? I saw the doc ditto between you and kenmeister, but that is all i could find.

I find that the Dr. Tornado works as a good edge guard tool regardless of whether or not you get the janky downward gimp. If you want the downward gimp, try to hit the opponent with the bottom of Doc's feet. I have a good video saved on my wii u of tornado gimping. I'll see if I can upload it later.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I find that the Dr. Tornado works as a good edge guard tool regardless of whether or not you get the janky downward gimp. If you want the downward gimp, try to hit the opponent with the bottom of Doc's feet. I have a good video saved on my wii u of tornado gimping. I'll see if I can upload it later.

It's definitely a good edgeguarding tool, but I think it's not worth going for the semi-spike. I've tried to position it properly in training mode and it's hard. Luigi's Cyclone is cake.

 

[Specs808]

It's definitely a good edgeguarding tool, but I think it's not worth going for the semi-spike. I've tried to position it properly in training mode and it's hard. Luigi's Cyclone is cake.

I use Dr. Tornado to guard the edge whether i'm going for the downward angle or not. The move covers a lot of your opponent's options and can interrupt some recoveries. Here's a match against a Falcon where i used the tornado off stage every chance i got.

 

[Rizen]

I'm wondering how the good Dr. is different from Mario and why he's so much worse? Most clones are within a few spaces of each other on the same tier.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm wondering how the good Dr. is different from Mario and why he's so much worse? Most clones are within a few spaces of each other on the same tier.

He's honestly pretty underrated. Doc primarily has less safe options to get out of juggles (recovery is mostly fine if you use Tornado to stall out edgeguard attempts) and gets annoyed when he has to chase extremely strong negative states, such as something like ZSS Flip Jump given he doesn't run very fast. Plus his low% combos aren't as braindead and not quite as reliable on fastfallers.

Doc unlike Mario has Jab cancel -> Up-B on floaties (and more characters with Rage), real edgeguards with Tornado and D-air (Mario can't edgeguard you at all if you recover low and tech stage spikes), the best reversal in the game in his 3 frame Up-B kill move, and his lower short hop helps him a lot in neutral in spacing B-airs against short characters and crouching. Plus his U-smash unlike Mario actually hits from the front. Very underrated character, I'd argue there isn't really a whole tier gap between the characters.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Doc has Mario's moves, but plays more like a less polarized, and less rewarding Luigi (a slower, less combo heavy Mario, but higher damage and knockback). He has one kill setup but it's not as reliable as luigi's when accounting for DI and it's character specific.

I think each of the bros has specific advantages over one another, though Luigi>Mario and Doc overall and the gap between Mario and Doc is virtually nonexistant. Mario's strengths are his mobility and string/combo potential but he has low reward, no real kill setups and limited edgeguarding. Luigi's strengths are his neutral game and his reward off of throws, but his ability to punish otherwise is hindered by traction and his aerial approach is hindered by his poor air speed. Doc's advantages are his fast, reliable KO moves (up b is amazing) and his variety of edge guarding options (dair, tornado, reverse up b, backwards uair, and late nair) but he is too slow, and his recovery is poor overall (though a lot better than people give credit for).

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I saw someone mention doc's kill set ups- anyone want to run me through these or point me at a thread/post that has them? Sometimes I have a troubles getting kills.

He doesn't have much. you have to get reads, edgeguards or oos up b or bair to get kills with him. down throw to fair works on some characters but there are some limitations that make it less reliable (di and the sweetspot being smaller than the sourspot).

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

How do I get out of Doc's Dthrow followups? I keep hearing people say that he hardy has a combo game at all, but somehow I still get caught in Dthrow > Uairs, Dtilt > Dtilt and if these aren't real don't know how to avoid them. A Doc even once did Dthrow > UpB at around 50-70% on me once in For Glory, and in general I have problems facing Doc and usually don't beat him, this being one of the reasons (aside from my lack of edgeguarding). One of my two characters is a fast faller, the other is heavier than average and also a fast faller , can I still reliably avoid them?

It could just be because I'm playing online though.

mixup your di and jump, i guess. megaman and greninja are susceptible to more combos due to their fall speeds (d throw to up smash works at more percentages on megaman). d tilt does not combo into itself to my knowledge. d throw to up b should work, but d throw to up b is a bit tricky to time. also works at mid percentages, so it will not kill.

 

[Sari]

At 0% with no rage is d-throw to u-tilt guaranteed on certain characters? Unlike with Mario it seems like whenever I try and use an u-tilt after a d-throw it never hits my opponent.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

At 0% with no rage is d-throw to u-tilt guaranteed on certain characters? Unlike with Mario it seems like whenever I try and use an u-tilt after a d-throw it never hits my opponent.

yes. as is d throw to up smash. Doc has worse combo potential, but more consistent combos at various percents.

 

[Sari]

Two more questions:
1. Can Dr. Mario cancel his jab and follow up with a grab?

2. https://youtu.be/sZ7YrWOcuCU?t=54s
At 0:54 I somehow hit Ness with my up-B twice. I don't know how I did it, but is there a way to always do this?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Two more questions:
1. Can Dr. Mario cancel his jab and follow up with a grab?

2. https://youtu.be/sZ7YrWOcuCU?t=54s
At 0:54 I somehow hit Ness with my up-B twice. I don't know how I did it, but is there a way to always do this?

1. Not to my knowledge though it's possible to frame trap with Jab 1 into Jab 2 followed into Up-B. This works on floaty characters best.
2. I don't know why that happened twice. Maybe the input was registered twice? Or mashing? The first Up-B traded with Ness's aerial attack and the second one came out.

 

[Spottel]

Maybe there's a new killsetup but very specific. Dair can be used like Kirby and hitting him with a fast move after that. It doesnt work on Mario, but maybe on fast fallers. Can anyone ( de ) confirmes that? Or testing it?

 

[Sari]

Any tips on dealing with Zero Suit Samus as Doc, specifically ones that constantly use down-B? I have no idea how to approach her with Dr. Mario (and the regular Mario for that matter).

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What moves lock characters one Dr. Mario? (besides Pills/single hit jab)

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

What moves lock characters one Dr. Mario? (besides Pills/single hit jab)

http://smashboards.com/threads/jab-...arch-and-discussion-update-new-format.400425/

Any tips on dealing with Zero Suit Samus as Doc, specifically ones that constantly use down-B? I have no idea how to approach her with Dr. Mario (and the regular Mario for that matter).

Supposedly you can beat out one of the kick options with Tornado. Otherwise, bait and punish or shield and punish. This isn't bouncing fish.

 

[Gunla]

http://smashboards.com/threads/jab-...arch-and-discussion-update-new-format.400425/



Supposedly you can beat out one of the kick options with Tornado. Otherwise, bait and punish or shield and punish. This isn't bouncing fish.

Please refrain from double posting, as it violates the Terms of Service. Instead, use the edit function to add onto the thread when your post is the most recent one.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

? Even if the content is different? Ok, will keep that in mind. Sorry about that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Any tips on dealing with Zero Suit Samus as Doc, specifically ones that constantly use down-B? I have no idea how to approach her with Dr. Mario (and the regular Mario for that matter).

You're in for a long game if you want to beat ZSS as Doc. Basically the whole game revolves around chasing her and slowly cornering her until she's forced to go THROUGH you to run away.

Doc's best attack for punishing Flip Jump is jumping and Tornado. This will pretty consistently beat her Down-B, granted only for about 9 damage, but it's overall the most low risk way of covering that escape option if she has to go through you.

Similarly, she can be edgeguarded with Tornado that way too. All in all though it's a really hard matchup given she can generally punish Doc a lot harder than the other way around.

 

[Shaya]

Is every move of Doctor Mario's have a damage modifier of 1.12x?
Dantarion keeps it pure (so it must be a separate thing, somewhere), but I wasn't sure if it was applied to every move.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

No, there are exceptions. Doc's sweetspot bair does 14% compared to Mario's which does 10%. I think their up smashes do the same damage, though post patch 1.1.0, Doc's is a bit stronger.

 

[Sari]

What are the best moves to use to get Pikmin off of Doc?

 

[waterfall6464]

What are the best moves to use to get Pikmin off of Doc?

The Super Sheet works really well. It's a useful move against Olimar in general.