Social The Dark Pit Thread

[Esquelen]

Dark Pit has returned, in the form of character Echo.

You can discuss the character in general, what do you think about it?​

 

[Deleted member]

Call me edgy, but I never play as Pit; I prefer Dark Pit. I hope he returns!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I began to really appriciate the character after playing Uprising. Am hoping he's in, even if he's still a full clone.

After all, he's sort of the ONLY character ever who was actually born from a Smash game. Thanks to his black alt costume in Brawl, Dark Pit was born.

Kinda similar to Super Kong in a way.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

I just hope he doesnt return as anything but a costume, due to what he is he cant be anything but a clone with maybe different special kit to normal pit

 

[MercuryPenny]

3 of the 6 clones in melee as well as doctor mario in smash 4 had distinct playstyles from the originals despite sharing most, if not all, of their animations.

it's rather perplexing that they didn't do this with dark pit. giving him a more aggressive playstyle less based on stray hits and zoning while still retaining his basic moveset would have made perfect sense.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Bring my boy back.

Love this guy and would hate to see him go.


Coming back as an alt isn't happening. I doesn't fit Sakurai's MO and it doesn't even make any logical sense based on how he was designed.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

3 of the 6 clones in melee as well as doctor mario in smash 4 had distinct playstyles from the originals despite sharing most, if not all, of their animations.

it's rather perplexing that they didn't do this with dark pit. giving him a more aggressive playstyle less based on stray hits and zoning while still retaining his basic moveset would have made perfect sense.

well I think its because he and pit do function identical aside from side and neutral b being as different as they are in game spite being similar weapons, dark pit does share his exact style, personality is all thats different and thats the flaw too, his personality outside quotes and his special grunts of final smash would be basically absent, dark pit is represented perfectly and thats the problem, he wont fit well in smash outside a costume for that very reason

 

[A Distant Demon]

well I think its because he and pit do function identical aside from side and neutral b being as different as they are in game spite being similar weapons, dark pit does share his exact style, personality is all thats different and thats the flaw too, his personality outside quotes and his special grunts of final smash would be basically absent, dark pit is represented perfectly and thats the problem, he wont fit well in smash outside a costume for that very reason

If Falco can be decloned, a character that doesn't even have any actions of their own and is idenitcal to Fox in the games (other than minor stat differences), than Dark Pit can too quite easily.

A character that actually has their own unique attacks and has a few canon-weapons lying around

 

[MercuryPenny]

well I think its because he and pit do function identical aside from side and neutral b being as different as they are in game spite being similar weapons, dark pit does share his exact style, personality is all thats different and thats the flaw too, his personality outside quotes and his special grunts of final smash would be basically absent, dark pit is represented perfectly and thats the problem, he wont fit well in smash outside a costume for that very reason

just because they play identically in their source game doesn't mean that dark pit is relegated to being a costume or a literally pointless clone by default.

plus i'd see a difference in personality as a wonderful opportunity to repurpose portions of pit's moveset for a different character archetype, especially when dark pit's personality makes a more aggressive approach to combat an obvious option.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

If Falco can be decloned, a character that doesn't even have any actions of their own and is idenitcal to Fox in the games (other than minor stat differences), than Dark Pit can too quite easily.

A character that actually has their own unique attacks and has a few canon-weapons lying around

yes but it would soley be on weapons, because he does use the bow but he has also used a staff and ore club, but his fighting style as far as normals as he would use the more iconic weapon being his silver bow would likely be involved in his normals, as I said dp has the flaw of being a literal clone, his fighting style would be the same as pit's overall the only difference may be weapon choices at this point, making a stye reflect his personality using similar weapons to pit would be very difficult, and sorry if this response is a little scatterbrained, I just woke up

[/QUOTE] just because they play identically in their source game doesn't mean that dark pit is relegated to being a costume or a literally pointless clone by default.

plus i'd see a difference in personality as a wonderful opportunity to repurpose portions of pit's moveset for a different character archetype, especially when dark pit's personality makes a more aggressive approach to combat an obvious option.

just because they play identically in their source game doesn't mean that dark pit is relegated to being a costume or a literally pointless clone by default.

plus i'd see a difference in personality as a wonderful opportunity to repurpose portions of pit's moveset for a different character archetype, especially when dark pit's personality makes a more aggressive approach to combat an obvious option.

What I was saying was in his game he and pit are identical characters, canonically they fight exactly the same barring even gameplay, but due to the mirror he was born from he was only opposite in personality, they only way to 'declone' him is to give a completely different moveset, let them share little to no moves and all normals will need a different weapon, the only thing I could think of is either make him a costume or make his main weapon either a staff or the ore club or something of the sort

 

[SchAlternate]

I'm indifferent about Dark Pit, but part of that derives from how little I care about Pit in Smash 4, particularly how abyssmal he is at KOing anyone.

If he did return, I'd at least hope he had a more inspired, decloned moveset, or was at least on par to how clones were handled in Melee, where a character is fundamentally the same as another but has different properties to stand out. Either giving him his Dark Pit Staff as a default weapon and change up his tilts and such, or just make him a more aggressive Pit with better kill power or something. Y'know, change more than just like, 3 moves?

But eh, whatever happens. happens. If he's cut, I wouldn't mind. If he's declone and made even a little more interesting, I'd be willing to give him another go. If he's kept a clone, I'd be a little irked, but wouldn't mind too much either if it meant other, more important aspects of the game got addressed.

 

[Deleted member]

I like Dark Pit's Electrodash Arm because it encourages me to catch people at the edge of stages where I can KO them easiest. Such satisfaction.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Personally... Dark Pit being a clone is fine, but they still really need to adjust the properties of his normals. If we’re going to discuss him being accurate to KIU, then, having the Palutena Bow and Silver Bow have the exact same melee capabilities is an inaccuracy.

(I just looked up their melee damage outputs in Uprising, by the way... the Silver Bow has less melee damage output than the Palutena Bow, actually...)

Perhaps they could do things like change multi hit attacks into single hits, change launch angles on moves, etc. Perhaps he could get at least one unique normal (maybe the dive kick that he used to take down the guardian in front of Medusa’s castle in Uprising?)

 

[LittleMissEevee]

Personally... Dark Pit being a clone is fine, but they still really need to adjust the properties of his normals. If we’re going to discuss him being accurate to KIU, then, having the Palutena Bow and Silver Bow have the exact same melee capabilities is an inaccuracy.

(I just looked up their melee damage outputs in Uprising, by the way... the Silver Bow has less melee damage output than the Palutena Bow, actually...)

Perhaps they could do things like change multi hit attacks into single hits, change launch angles on moves, etc. Perhaps he could get at least one unique normal (maybe the dive kick that he used to take down the guardian in front of Medusa’s castle in Uprising?)

Replacing down b I’d assume, yeah all I’d want if he were to return as his own is for him to be his own in some way, even if he is exactly the same on moves and animations make them stand out, but still it would be hard since he and pit are meant to play similar due to them being clones in every way but personality

 

[ZagarTulip]

Personally I didn't like the idea of Dark Pit in Smash mainly because it gave Kid Icarus too many reps and Dark Pit is mainly just a recolour of Pit.
I have nothing against Kid Icarus or Dark Pit in the series, I just thought he was unnecessary.
To me it's like adding Wireframe Little Mac or Dark Link when they'd fit best as costumes

Please don't judge me too much, it is my opinion after all

 

[A Distant Demon]

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY we may be be edgy, but we didnt get cut on our own edge.


BRING OUT THE GUITARS

 

[TMNTSSB4]

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY we may be be edgy, but we didnt get cut on our own edge.


BRING OUT THE GUITARS

All that remains for him and Pit is to get some good or atleast decent buffs (though it seems they might have some)

 

[CodeBlue_]

From what I watched from Plup today, Pit seems to just benefit a lot from the universal damage buffs and a more reliable up and down air. I'm wondering if Plup actually adapted well to the character though and Pit's changes are more of a placebo.

Dark Pit staying as the clone is a shame though. Hopefully he has something to stand out a little this time (both have Guardian Orbitars though still).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

From what I watched from Plup today, Pit seems to just benefit a lot from the universal damage buffs and a more reliable up and down air. I'm wondering if Plup actually adapted well to the character though and Pit's changes are more of a placebo.

Dark Pit staying as the clone is a shame though. Hopefully he has something to stand out a little this time (both have Guardian Orbitars though still).

I think he and Lucina will fight the same what they had in Smash 4, and will possibly share tier list spots with the heroes they echo. Same with Peach and Daisy

 

[Deleted member]

I think he and Lucina will fight the same what they had in Smash 4, and will possibly share tier list spots with the heroes they echo. Same with Peach and Daisy

First of all, Congrats to all of you Dark Pit fans (including myself)!!! Take that, everyone who thought he'd be cut!! Muahahaha.

I'll probably make a separate post about this, but since there seems to be confusion about what the difference between an alt, a clone, and an echo fighter is, I think the key lies in how the character is developed.

• Alt: Alph, Koopalings, gender swaps--basically a fancy alternate costume that may actually be a different character.
• Echo Fighter: Dark Pit, Lucina, Daisy--characters that are essentially alt costumes BUT with a tweak or two (such as different FS or special move, or hitbox changes etc.) that differentiate them from being just an alt costume.
• Clone/Semi-Clone: Luigi, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, Dr. Mario, Roy, Ganondorf. Based on another character but in general they'll have at least several unique moves, different properties etc. to set them apart.
• Distant Clone (my own term): Because they generally copied (though modified) special moves from another character but otherwise have completely different standard attacks: Lucas, Wolf.

In some ways you can look at it like a spectrum rather than categories. I mean Lucario straight up stole the idea of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball for his Aura Sphere but since that's the only thing he copied, I didn't put him on this list. However, if it's a spectrum from alt costume to completely unique fighter, even copying one move would put you just below the level of completely unique fighter. That being said, every fighter brings something new to the game no matter what "class" of fighter they are and every fighter has their fans, so I'm absolutely thrilled that EVERYONE IS HERE. :')

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Imma gonna place this here since whatever treatment Pit gets, Pittoo is most likely to get aswell

Watching the Nintendo Treehouse for Smash...and my boy has been treated even better than in Smash 4

His Smash attacks seem to actually connect consistently, upoerdash and smash attacks have new animation style, new jab infinite, new animation for his victory poses, seems to be stronger than the last two games in general and he’s got a new Star KO line saying “I Never Learned How To Read”...I feel like a happy boy so far

Seems like Sakurai is making sure people know not to mess with the angels of Smash

 

[Johnknight1]

From what I watched from Plup today, Pit seems to just benefit a lot from the universal damage buffs and a more reliable up and down air. I'm wondering if Plup actually adapted well to the character though and Pit's changes are more of a placebo.

Dark Pit staying as the clone is a shame though. Hopefully he has something to stand out a little this time (both have Guardian Orbitars though still).

Honestly I don't even know what the term "clone" means anymore.

People still refer to Luigi as a clone because he has similar properties and some shared moves with Mario, even though his style of fighting is very different, the way his moves interact and function are very different, he is much floatier than Mario, and he has about a half dozen unique moves.

Dark Pit is for sure a true clone yes, but this time around he very likely will have much different properties from Pit.

Every Smash game every single "clone" gets further and further from the character they are based on. I don't see that trend dying this game, especially since every character continues to change more and more. Most characters have a new or heavily altered attack, and several have been reworked.

Even if Pit's and Dark Pit's attacks don't change, the way one of them have a specific attack function could change drastically while the other's stays the same.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

Honestly I don't even know what the term "clone" means anymore.

People still refer to Luigi as a clone because he has similar properties and some shared moves with Mario, even though his style of fighting is very different, the way his moves interact and function are very different, he is much floatier than Mario, and he has about a half dozen unique moves.

Dark Pit is for sure a true clone yes, but this time around he very likely will have much different properties from Pit.

Every Smash game every single "clone" gets further and further from the character they are based on. I don't see that trend dying this game, especially since every character continues to change more and more. Most characters have a new or heavily altered attack, and several have been reworked.

Even if Pit's and Dark Pit's attacks don't change, the way one of them have a specific attack function could change drastically while the other's stays the same.

too bad it didn’t change, and I consider them clones if the majority of their attacks resemble their inspired design animation wise, for instance I consider melee ganon a clone but not brawl ganon, melee ganon’s kit resembles falc’s way too much but even still he remains unique in that his attacks and attributes were a far cry away from falcon, in brawl he was decloned quite a bit now that a majority of his attacks don’t resemble falc’s nearly as much, now they are only similar, luigi I consider decloned because he shares hardly any attribute with mario anymore, dark pit however is almost the exact same, with barely any defining traits in 4, I hope in ultimate his moves will at least be a little more different, different damage, knockback and angles would be appreciated with this “echo fighter”

 

[knepsis]

• Distant Clone (my own term): Because they generally copied (though modified) special moves from another character but otherwise have completely different standard attacks: Lucas, Wolf.

In some ways you can look at it like a spectrum rather than categories. I mean Lucario straight up stole the idea of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball for his Aura Sphere but since that's the only thing he copied, I didn't put him on this list. However, if it's a spectrum from alt costume to completely unique fighter, even copying one move would put you just below the level of completely unique fighter. That being said, every fighter brings something new to the game no matter what "class" of fighter they are and every fighter has their fans, so I'm absolutely thrilled that EVERYONE IS HERE. :')

Classifying wolf as a distant clone isn't probably the right thing to do, he's similar to fox and falco due to the all being in the spacie archetype. this archetype was defined in melee by fox and falco.
Similarly, characters with similar moves can arise out of the archetype, for example, for most sword based zoners, their fair or nair is a sword sweep in front of them covering a large area because it's a tool that is representative of the archetype.

 

[Deleted member]

So obviously I don't think people will adopt a term like "distant clone" but my point was that Wolf's special attacks are based on those of Fox...which is something a clone would do. Lucas does this with Ness as well, and even has the same forward smash. All of the their other moves are essentially different though, so they are certainly closer to a unique fighter than, say, Ganondorf was in Melee. So it's a spectrum, depending on how many moves get copied. As a character like Falco and Ganondorf get progressively more distinct moves, they move closer to being unique fighter, but are still currently on the clone spectrum.

For those that are confused, an echo fighter is not strictly a clone in the way we've seen in the Smash series thus far, because they're basically glorified alternate costumes. All moves are exactly the same, except for difference in properties/visual effects. Dark Pit and Daisy fit this perfectly though personally I feel Lucina pushes her boundaries as an echo fighter since her height and reach differ from Marth. Dr. Mario is not an echo fighter as he has a different down special, otherwise he probably could be.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

So obviously I don't think people will adopt a term like "distant clone" but my point was that Wolf's special attacks are based on those of Fox...which is something a clone would do. Lucas does this with Ness as well, and even has the same forward smash. All of the their other moves are essentially different though, so they are certainly closer to a unique fighter than, say, Ganondorf was in Melee. So it's a spectrum, depending on how many moves get copied. As a character like Falco and Ganondorf get progressively more distinct moves, they move closer to being unique fighter, but are still currently on the clone spectrum.

For those that are confused, an echo fighter is not strictly a clone in the way we've seen in the Smash series thus far, because they're basically glorified alternate costumes. All moves are exactly the same, except for difference in properties/visual effects. Dark Pit and Daisy fit this perfectly though personally I feel Lucina pushes her boundaries as an echo fighter since her height and reach differ from Marth. Dr. Mario is not an echo fighter as he has a different down special, otherwise he probably could be.

he also has a new dair doesn’t he?

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Isn't Dark Pit's Final Smash different from Pit? How can he be an echo if he has a unique Final Smash that works more like Zelda & Sheik's old Final Smash? And combined with Silver Arrow and Electroshock Arm's differences from Palutena's Arrow and Upperdash Arm, he feels more like a semiclone.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Isn't Dark Pit's Final Smash different from Pit? How can he be an echo if he has a unique Final Smash that works more like Zelda & Sheik's old Final Smash? And combined with Silver Arrow and Electroshock Arm's differences from Palutena's Arrow and Upperdash Arm, he feels more like a semiclone.

Besides three minor differences and two different final smashes, they fight and move the exact same way, so he’s not a semiclone (both in Smash and Uprising)...has no tipper and different taunts but is aclone, just like howandhave minor differences in damage but are still alike

 

[LittleMissEevee]

Isn't Dark Pit's Final Smash different from Pit? How can he be an echo if he has a unique Final Smash that works more like Zelda & Sheik's old Final Smash? And combined with Silver Arrow and Electroshock Arm's differences from Palutena's Arrow and Upperdash Arm, he feels more like a semiclone.

Because his base moveset minus side and neutral b are identical to pit’s in every single way

 

[Qina]

Because his base moveset minus side and neutral b are identical to pit’s in every single way

His infinite slash thing finisher has a smaller hitbox and his forward tilt has less knockback. So he can use it lock. But tbh the main thing about him is the electroshock because of its horizontal knockback.

I was actually really hoping for some changes of his specials but they preeeetty much revealed his regular special moveset during the preview. Sad face.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

His infinite slash thing finisher has a smaller hitbox and his forward tilt has less knockback. So he can use it lock. But tbh the main thing about him is the electroshock because of its horizontal knockback.

I was actually really hoping for some changes of his specials but they preeeetty much revealed his regular special moveset during the preview. Sad face.

well regardless his differences are too minute to be much of his own character, think of pichu in melee, without the updated mechanic it got in ultimate (and maybe it kept some attacks to seperate it from pikachu now? well in melee it was the definition of echo fighter, it was way too similar to pikachu, all that separated them was pichu’s self damage and a couple animations, in ultimate that changed with expanded self damage as a tradeoff instead of as a cripple, it might retain its nair which seperates it from pikachu, its ftilt seems to have the electric effect now too and so on, but dp, lucina, daisy they mirror their counterparts even if they have differences, if ganon was his melee self he too would be an echo fighter I’d assume

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Dark Pit is no longer the only edgy dark echo

 

[LittleMissEevee]

Dark Pit is no longer the only edgy dark echo

he is still the only one born of a costume

 

[TMNTSSB4]

he is still the only one born of a costume

****, you got a good point. Can’t win them all I suppose

 

[LittleMissEevee]

****, you got a good point. Can’t win them all I suppose

and he was also born not just of ssb4 pit’s costume but brawl’s as well as that pit first appeared in brawl

 

[TMNTSSB4]

and he was also born not just of ssb4 pit’s costume but brawl’s as well as that pit first appeared in brawl

Giving him a double downgrade...also doesn’t help that he can’t beat Pit in a fight (fair or not)

 

[LittleMissEevee]

Giving him a double downgrade...also doesn’t help that he can’t beat Pit in a fight (fair or not)

RIP Dark Pit, character born of a brawl costume for pit, originally in 4 as an alt, barely has and diff from pit but is often a worse version

 

[TMNTSSB4]

RIP Dark Pit, character born of a brawl costume for pit, originally in 4 as an alt, barely has and diff from pit but is often a worse version

And he can’t even try to change cause he’ll always end up fighting like Pit. Man can’t even fly anymore...just like Pit, and he can’t have a life without Pit cause if he dies, no Pittoo...damn to Dark Pit

 

[Deleted member]

That Electroshock Arm tho

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That Electroshock Arm tho

It does make up for his arrows