lol Ripple, how can Zelda + Sheik be a better match-up than just Sheik?
More or less agree with what Ripple has put, I'll trust him on some of those numbers, but I'll dispute Olimar and Lucario.
Oli is -1. Olimar wins the match-up, he's too good at keeping us away and keeping us from landing. And we're pretty bad at getting pikmin off. It all builds damage too quickly. He makes it hard to get off the ledge too.
But the reason it's not a free win for him is just how we ruin everything he has as soon as we get a solid hit. Any good b-air, d/b/cargo-throw, u-tilt, or down-b if they're closer to the edge, all put him in a horrible position: in the air and near DK. Any time you get Olimar in this position, it should be at minimum 50%, if not a stock. He's too slow to escape, and too floaty to land quick enough. We beat his attacks and he obviously can't grab in the air. Whistle and Airdodge both keep him in the same position, he's super easy to punch if you react to either of them, and if you did attack, you can still very much get an easy grab afterwards. Whistle n-air doesn't work if you keep yourself at a good range, it just gets him punched/f-tilted. He's also very vulnerable to charged f-smashes and giant punches in this position for the same reasons. Second jumping away will at best put him on a platform if there is one, which is obviously a bad spot. Even if he does land on the ground, he has to then get you out to avoid the situation being repeated. Basically, DK is just too darn big for him to get away from.
Other than that, the fact that his grab has no grab armor makes approaching not so bad. Anytime he grabs he's open to down-b, f-tilt, and giant punch. He actually can have a lot of trouble killing DK too. He can't get close enough for his kill moves if you're not walking towards him, red f-air is probably the most reliable kill move he has here.
Depending on your region, our CPs ruin him too. Most of our good stages are also his good stages. If Norfair and PS2 are legal though, he loses badly on both of those, basically guaranteeing a win on your CP. Otherwise, Yoshi's is always solid(removes his ledge pressure, harder to get away), and Lylat is good here (the slopes really help approaching). Between FD and Halberd, his CPs vs us are pretty good but definitely manageable. Pictochat is nothing to be worried about here, I might even argue we do better there vs him.
I don't feel like typing a bunch for Lucario, but I'll just say we outrange him, outspeed him, and outpower him, and we beat all his usual tricks. His combos are cool but escape isn't difficult given how slow he is. +2, I could see a +1 though.
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