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The Essence of Wolf: A Guide to Wolf COMPLETELY REWRITTEN
- Thread starter Koskinator
- Start date
- Status
ElPadrino
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 166
He is because you're treating him like noob. He might be a lot of things, but noob is certainly not one of them.Funny. He's doing exactly the same.
Although you have a point, I'm not in favor of him insulting you either, that's why I wanted you to stop fighting.
Maybe you don't realise, but you seem to tell people what's safe, what move is the best, and why the thing they posted is wrong.
Or at least that's how I percieve is sometimes.
You do have a point there too, but insulting him back ain't gonna solve anything. And you're insulting him for stuff he isn't.
AKA judging. And judging inaccurately I might add.
But like I said, this is a stupid flame war. Stop it.
Calling him a noob, and saying he didn't set the bases of the Wolf's metagame IS discrediting him. I was THERE, I saw him research and test so many stuff that is part of Wolf today.
But again, you did your part too, so once again I request this fight to stop.
If you're looking at the competitive scene, a couple of random casual players stating their opinion isn't gonna make the matchup any more veridic. If you want accuracy grab 2 or 3 top players of each character and let them discuss.
Luigi player
Smash Master
Don't take Ghebs "insults" or w/e (didn't read anything) too seriously guys. I'm sure he doesn't want to make anyone feel bad.
He's a nice guy IRL
Though it's true that you seem a bit arrogant on the internet. =P
He's a nice guy IRL
Though it's true that you seem a bit arrogant on the internet. =P
§witch
Smash Lord
You have been known to force your opinion a little hard on others though =pGheb said:
Maybe.
I like debates and I'm always convinced by my experiences. Other people like castor can deal with it perfectly well and it was never an obvious problem either.
Kenrawr
Smash Master
Gheb_01: You debate? o____O!?
Nice update, Kosk. You already got most of my little critiques via AIM. ;p
But taking a second glance...
"Falco- 45/55 Neutral"
Really...!? It's one of his worst, come on now :|
And imo snake/wolf 55/45 and D3/wolf 65/35.
But once again, awesome contribution.
Nice update, Kosk. You already got most of my little critiques via AIM. ;p
But taking a second glance...
"Falco- 45/55 Neutral"
Really...!? It's one of his worst, come on now :|
And imo snake/wolf 55/45 and D3/wolf 65/35.
But once again, awesome contribution.
CO18
Smash Hero
Wolf has the advantage over Falco without Cg --> Spike.
Laser spamming Falco until he reflects you to 30% while he still takes a little damage basically negelects that.
Not to mention you can tech Falco's dair spike as found out.
Wolf doesn't even have a disadvantae imo. I think its slightly in his favor.
Its definitley not worse than 55:45 for falco at this point.
§witch
Smash Lord
I never said I had a problem with it. It's just me ****ting on other people's debates.
Kenrawr
Smash Master
CO18: Spike+DI+Tech=Live?
CO18
Smash Hero
Kenrawr
Smash Master
Thanks for that. *temporarily retracts falco matchup statement*
teekay
Smash Journeyman
He did absolutely nothing of the sort. What a ridiculous statement.
He has acted like quite a jerk since his return, and doesn't deserve any respect.
But you criticized me a while ago for basically the same thing!
I have never had a problem with you though, I like debates too and I've never felt that you were attempting to control anything here. Keep up the good work.
In the end, I think everybody needs to keep something in mind: the guys who know this character and developed his metagame for real are guys like Germ, Lucien, Candy, Omniswell, Everlasting Yahyuzz, people who have used him to place well in tournaments against great players and shown us how far he can be taken with skill and dedication. The rest of us are just kind of mucking around here, theorizing and doing the best we can to help each other improve, but frankly I wouldn't trust anything nearly as much as their opinions. Not the community's consensus, and most definitely not this guide.
The thing that is so offensive about Kosk's behavior since he returned is that he is acting like we should regard him the same way as those players I listed above, and that's just completely absurd when he has nothing to show us. He's on exactly the same level all of us are.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
All the wolf pros who do good in tournaments dont really do anything in here.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
Indeed, but that doesn't make Kosk any more of one.
Kenrawr
Smash Master
Yeah, because we're not dedicated either, right? Everyone visits these boards for contributions, factual or not. You can take their ideas and exploit what they've already suggested. Doesn't mean you have to lower your metagame by listening to someone who's worse.
Your post sounds extremely arrogant, sir.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
How on earth could that sound arrogant? I certainly didn't say I know any better than anyone. I don't have tournament results to show that I'm all that because I'm not. The difference between me and Kosk is I don't pretend to be.
Maybe you misinterpreted something I said. I'm not sure where you could possibly have gotten that "lower your metagame by listening to someone who's worse" bit from or what it's even referring to... that's exactly what I'm saying not to do.
Maybe you misinterpreted something I said. I'm not sure where you could possibly have gotten that "lower your metagame by listening to someone who's worse" bit from or what it's even referring to... that's exactly what I'm saying not to do.
Koskinator
Smash Lord
I dont pretend to be anything. I am what I am. A good Wolf player. K-9, Kash, Pad and Switch can all vouch for me on that.
CO18
Smash Hero
Kosk is a really good wolf. He can take games off a Tournament winning Dedede in a **** matchup.
I commend him for that.
He generally knows his stuff imo
I commend him for that.
He generally knows his stuff imo
§witch
Smash Lord
That I can; we haven't played in a while, but yes.
Kenrawr
Smash Master
But apparently you're on a level to decipher who's good and who's bad, right?
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
I think the Wolf vs. Falco match-up is in Wolf's favor. If you have half a brain you won't get chain grabbed unless you're on Final Destination. Only then it's still a possibility. You have to play patiently. I would say it is slightly in Wolf's favor. 55:45 Wolf advantage.
Snake... I usually use Falco or Olimar against Snake. I haven't used Wolf in awhile, but it's not that bad. As for Dedede... **** that match-up.
You're right. That was my mistake back then. But I don't think it ever escalated into a serious argument like this. Hopefully you didn't take it too personal
So, when is there going to be a guide for tournament level Wolfs? I would rather watch videos of Lucien/Germ play and see what works and what gets punished at a competitive level instead of some guide saying the matchup boils down to "spammmmmm that bair." When I think of a guide, I think of the current metagame of the character the guide is talking about. There's no mention of what combos he has, most advanced techniques and their uses, follow ups for attacks, and the list goes on. I'd like to point out that your description of the Wall of Wolf is misleading and insufficient. Castor has evolved the WoW to what it is now because "doing full jump bairs into double jump bairs" means your wasting your double jump and makes you more vulnerable to being gimped. No offense, but I don't think your guide is benefitial at a competitive level...I hope the WBR will be able to come up with something better than this for Wolf's sake.
I think it is more beneficial to discuss scenarios rather than matchup percentages and general tactics ("spammmmmm that bair." btw, this tactic can be exploited and needs to be supplemented with other tactics, won't go into detail now because it will probably be covered in the WBR's guide). Afterall, what we do in a particular situations decides whether we will end up in an advantageous or disadvantageous position. Unforturnately, this is more time intensive because its based on character specific strategies.
By setting the base for the Wolf metagame, do you mean his rewrite of the original guide? I think that the rewrite was the basic evolution of wolf's gameplay...Afterall, with the exeption of the advanced techniques, this is how my friend played within a month (more like within a week) of Brawl's release and tried out some of the things suggested in the guide and then disregarded them because they were too easily countered by myself and others. In essence, I think this guide is obsolete. Just because he was the first to put it into pen doesn't mean he was the first to perform or conceptualize a specific move or strategy. For example, Castor and NinjaLink independently implemented jump shines into their game, which shows that good players will naturally develop styles/strategies that are more suitable for higher level player, or maybe its because they didn't follow the guide, who knows.
I think it is more beneficial to discuss scenarios rather than matchup percentages and general tactics ("spammmmmm that bair." btw, this tactic can be exploited and needs to be supplemented with other tactics, won't go into detail now because it will probably be covered in the WBR's guide). Afterall, what we do in a particular situations decides whether we will end up in an advantageous or disadvantageous position. Unforturnately, this is more time intensive because its based on character specific strategies.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
No. That's rather obvious, don't you think? Who's good would be the people who win. I'm sorry, I'm really not understanding what you think I'm saying that's arrogant here. Or do you seriously think that there is some other way to determine it?
I'm not saying Kosk is a bad player. I'm saying that by default the logical thing is to assume he isn't qualified to tell all the rest of us about Wolf until he can SHOW that he's a great Wolf player. Otherwise there is no reason why we should listen to him, and there's certainly no reason why he should be throwing his weight around and insulting Gheb for no reason.
No, not at all. Like I said, never had a problem with you.
Patinator
Smash Champion
WTF has gone on in here? O-O
I'm just going to back out of this, NOW. *gulp*
...*cough* I've never seen you play anyway.
I'm just going to back out of this, NOW. *gulp*
D
Deleted member
Guest
Wow.
Hmmm... I liked Kos when he used to be here.... Don't really know Gheb, he seemed fine. Both of you have acted pretty arrogant at some points in this... Gheb made more illogical posts (according to my quick read... Don't eat me Gheb, please)
What's the point of this argument anyway? You both are trying to "run" the Wolf boards it seems... I say you should both stop this nonsense here are move on to more productive things.
*disappears*
(first post in a LONG time)
Hmmm... I liked Kos when he used to be here.... Don't really know Gheb, he seemed fine. Both of you have acted pretty arrogant at some points in this... Gheb made more illogical posts (according to my quick read... Don't eat me Gheb, please)
What's the point of this argument anyway? You both are trying to "run" the Wolf boards it seems... I say you should both stop this nonsense here are move on to more productive things.
*disappears*
(first post in a LONG time)
ElPadrino
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 166
Dude, he meant me.WTF has gone on in here? O-O
...*cough* I've never seen you play anyway.
I'm just going to back out of this, NOW. *gulp*
ELPadrino > Padrino > Pad
Patinator
Smash Champion
Oh, well, hmm.Dude, he meant me.
ELPadrino > Padrino > Pad
...
I am a ****ing moron.
Patinator
Smash Champion
It is for me. D: I'm PATINATOR. I could understand it if I was, say... Gheb. He's too good to understand anything.
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Patinator
Smash Champion
Sorry Ghebbykins, I had to. XP
At least I interrupted the fighting. :D
At least I interrupted the fighting. :D
ElPadrino
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 166
WolfsReign
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2008
- Messages
- 8
good looks on the tips.
Straight Beast
Smash Rookie
My main is sonic but im thinking about switching and this really helped me. who is somebody good i could watch on youtube?
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Candy, Germ, Lucien, NinjaLink, Azen, few others.
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