Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[Leeyam]

Sonic and generally anyone with mobility seems quite a difficult matchup

 

[TriTails]

Sonic and generally anyone with mobility seems quite a difficult matchup

Disagree.

Luigi flat-out beats Sonic. Slight advantage to Mario. Oh, and DK.

Goes even with Falcon, Fox, Sheik (?), ZSS, and some other top tiers I may be missing. Oh, and LM MU feels a little bit more to even, maybe 55:45 LM.

Disadvantage (Mobility character-wise) probably only to Greninja.

Luigi's majority of bad MUs interestingly doesn't come from who can out-speeds him (If that were the case, he would lose to 4/5 of the cast). It comes from characters who can keep him out., and there is very little, oh stratch that, nobody who can keep him out forever, especially with platform involved.

Though, I haven't played FG for about a month now for reasons, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Deleted member]

Disagree.

Luigi flat-out beats Sonic. Slight advantage to Mario. Oh, and DK.

Goes even with Falcon, Fox, Sheik (?), ZSS, and some other top tiers I may be missing. Oh, and LM MU feels a little bit more to even, maybe 55:45 LM.

Disadvantage (Mobility character-wise) probably only to Greninja.

Luigi's majority of bad MUs interestingly doesn't come from who can out-speeds him (If that were the case, he would lose to 4/5 of the cast). It comes from characters who can keep him out., and there is very little, oh stratch that, nobody who can keep him out forever, especially with platform involved.

Though, I haven't played FG for about a month now for reasons, so take this with a grain of salt.

In my times with For Glory, I can confirm that Luigi has a tough time with Little Mac.
I have a lot of trouble getting Luigi in on Little Mac. The thing with Little Mac is that he can shutdown nearly all of Luigi's approach options. The Luigi Cyclone can be risky to use against him, Fireballs are mostly ineffective, Luigi has a hard time keeping Mac off-stage and preventing his recovery (in my experiences), and Little Mac's counter can shutdown some of Luigi's combos. In fact, Luigi's poor air speed is a liability as Little Mac can rush in on Luigi and go for a smash attack underneath him and Little Mac can quickly Counter when you try to go for a meteor smash.
When it comes to Little Mac, I tend to switch to Shulk, a character who can outrange Little Mac to keep him at bay and has an amazing off-stage game. That and Shulk has far better air mobility with Jump and Speed, giving Little Mac little room to react.

With Sonic, Luigi has an easier time with him because Luigi can shutdown most of Sonic's options (Sonic can't really go for Spin Dash maneuvers if you spam Fireballs). Once Luigi gets in on Sonic, he can easily combo Sonic. It's just a matter of patience. Same goes for Captain Falcon.

 

[TriTails]

Old experiences of mine, Fireballs are effective against LM. Sure, jabs and F-tilt eats Fireballs, however, F-tilt isn't fast enough to swat away every Fireballs, and I'm pretty dang sure you can punish it. Our F4 DA may has some uses here...

He is holding jab? I got U-smashed by a CPU Luigi when doing this. I was pretty shocked. Though, aside from that, I need confirming, we MAY be able to trade our F-smash against him, and it's safe on shield. Oh, and if B-air happens to be disjointed... that'd be great.

We generally don't approach in this MU. We let him approach, because we have Fireballs. And if he bum rushes you with DA... well, mistake.

Luigi can get LM off-stage with jabs and DAs. If we manage to get a grab, then we shouldn't have any problems pushing him a little bit with chaingrab. Oh, and a few grabs can mean checkmate.

His recovery is so gimpable that it's not even funny. All he has is his Counter, and if he whiffs it, he is most likely dead. A single F-air and he isn't coming back at all...

Counter I believe comes out at F5. Now I don't know if it's fast enough to break F-air chain or not, but Mario's F3 N-air can break it. Can a F5 Counter break it? A mystery need to be solved.

In the air, I tend to go for the ledge, but OH MY GOD NEVER EVER GET ABOVE HIM LIKE EVER! He'll either nail you with a Rising Uppercut, or just plain super armored smash attacks. We better off Missile to the ledge, fastfall and SJP. Watch out for the D-smash though.

And spotdodge works wonders. Better than shielding, since his attacks pushes Luigi so far...

Is there any videos of Boss, False, and any other pro Luigi player fighting LM? I know Boss taken out Takun's Ike in a friendly (Is Takun a pro?), as well everyone kicking Diddy's butt. I do recall LM does pretty well in tourneys. Having a MU video would be awesome.

 

[SupaHot]

Does anyone know of any way to easily use Luigi's d-special? I have tried changing the controls and putting special on c-stick or the d-pad but was unable to get results. I could have been doing it wrong. If changing the controls is no longer a thing, does anyone have any advice for mashing out the 12-15 inputs to get the cyclone to greatly rise?

 

[Yonder]

Does anyone know of any way to easily use Luigi's d-special? I have tried changing the controls and putting special on c-stick or the d-pad but was unable to get results. I could have been doing it wrong. If changing the controls is no longer a thing, does anyone have any advice for mashing out the 12-15 inputs to get the cyclone to greatly rise?

Welcome to Smashboards and the Luigi boards! Unfortunately, there is no way to work around the mashing for the cyclone. You just have to practice. I like to lock up my elbow until my hand vibrates so I can tap the button faster. It's really tough, only a few Luigi players can do it.

If only Boss would visit us with advice often like he did during the Brawl era...

Also, I don't think Sheik is even, I think it's 55 in her favor. Needles wreck, and her fair gives Luigi no breathing room. But all her combos are invalidated by nair, and Luigi kills earlier. But the needles are so good that they keep Luigi out and she outspeeds him tenfold. But she can't combo! Source: Getting 2 stocked by my friend in my last tourney by a Sheik. Basically Sheik just ran circles around me, but he could not combo at all thanks to nair. Nair is the golden ticket in this matchup, abuse the heck out of it. Without it, the matchup would suck.

 

[Soupy]

Disagree.

Luigi flat-out beats Sonic. Slight advantage to Mario. Oh, and DK.

Goes even with Falcon, Fox, Sheik (?), ZSS, and some other top tiers I may be missing. Oh, and LM MU feels a little bit more to even, maybe 55:45 LM.

Disadvantage (Mobility character-wise) probably only to Greninja.

Luigi's majority of bad MUs interestingly doesn't come from who can out-speeds him (If that were the case, he would lose to 4/5 of the cast). It comes from characters who can keep him out., and there is very little, oh stratch that, nobody who can keep him out forever, especially with platform involved.

Though, I haven't played FG for about a month now for reasons, so take this with a grain of salt.

I definitely agree with Sonic. I have no trouble with Sonics at all. I disagree with Falcon and Sheik though. I think it's slightly in their favor. Not by much, though. This may just me being salty about losing to really good Falcons and Shieks but the match-up never feels even. Especially with Shieks that are good at off stage needle gimping.

A good Greninja is also way too frustrating. I have yet to figure that match-up out because there's only one good Greninja over here that I rarely get to play.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

One thing I haven't seen Luigi players talk about.... Nair counter attack -> rising cyclone.
This works pretty well but it's situational of course. When you're launched in the air and someone tries to come after you, you can throw out a Nair. Nair will pop them directly above you. Then you can double jump into a rising cyclone for an early kill. Not guaranteed because some aerials have more priority or they're disjointed.

This is a lot safer and more likely to be guaranteed when you do a falling sourspot nair. I love going for landing sourspot nair > upb when I see the opportunity arise, and cyclone followup instead of the upb is easier to do.

A good Greninja is also way too frustrating. I have yet to figure that match-up out because there's only one good Greninja over here that I rarely get to play.

Wait for them to nair and then go to town.

 

[Soupy]

The one greninja I know doesn't utilize nair as much as most other greninjas do. I need to play him a bit more, but I'm not really familiar with the greninja playstyle in general. There are like....none here.

 

[TriTails]

Pretty sure no Greninjas just throw out their N-air because startup. They better off throwing Shurikens against Luigi.

And also, N-air cancelling Sheik's combos seem too good to be real. I don't remember N-air-ing her combos. If Sheik was without combos, I don't see on how Luigi loses to her. Needles are annoying, but as long as you don't get knocked to the air, you won't be getting horizontal juggles by them.

I need to know about the MU more I guess. In my memory Boss never faces a Sheik? BelaC and J. Miller definitely did.

 

[Soupy]

The one thing I hate about fighting Shieks is just the repeated fairs after fair after fair. The one Shiek I play that always wins tournies doesn't even go for on stage kills.

He's all about that "all I have to do is push them off the stage" mentality haha.

 

[Shoyo James]

Is it okay discussing custom moves here? It's not about which sets should be on the customs list, but on how to use them...
I have trouble understand why people think Luigi's ice fireballs are great. How do you follow up on them? Whenever I land one, they just fling into the air encased in ice for a solid second or so until they mash out, and it's not possible for me to follow up. I can't even use the iceball for grabs :<

 

[Soupy]

I don't see why not. There doesn't seem to be a sticky to discuss his custom moves besides this, but that's more of a "post what you use so we can come up with a good variety of most used combinations."

I think his standard fireballs are his best option. However, I have been wondering if his side b that gives you more distance would be useful.

EDIT: Actually, now that I read them, quick missile and floating missile both seem like they could be very useful. However, that would take away the fun of getting a 25% damage misfire
>.>

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

IMO, the only custom worth using competitively is Floating Missile. The ability to move completely horizontal without falling is pretty useful for Luigi's recovery. The reduction in damage is a fine trade off because side B shouldn't really be used offensively anyway. Quick Missile has tremendous endlag, especially on stage. You should be able to get enough horizontal distance with the other 2 customs anyway.

I haven't put much testing into Iceball but I can't think of any real benefits besides being a slower, more disruptive fireball that Luigi can't get as many followups from.

 

[Soupy]

IMO, the only custom worth using competitively is Floating Missile. The ability to move completely horizontal without falling is pretty useful for Luigi's recovery. The reduction in damage is a fine trade off because side B shouldn't really be used offensively anyway. Quick Missile has tremendous endlag, especially on stage. You should be able to get enough horizontal distance with the other 2 customs anyway.

I haven't put much testing into Iceball but I can't think of any real benefits besides being a slower, more disruptive fireball that Luigi can't get as many followups from.

See, my problem is that I play an incredibly stylish Luigi. I will sacrifice convenience just so I can randomly side b on stage and possibly get a misfire haha.

Sometimes Ill end aerial combos with a side b just because I've been very fortunate lately with them. Maybe Ill change over to floating missile if customs end up becoming a common thing at major tournies, but until then, I'll probably stick to my guns. (Haha...Luigi puns....)

 

[Snakeob]

Only been playing smash "competitively" since the WiiU release so i'm still fairly new to the off-stage game
Mines currently garbage and I generally don't see any benefit of chasing the opponent off stage when Luigi's recovery is questionable at times. Is there any good options aside from edge guarding with fireballs and attempting Dair's?

 

[Soupy]

Only been playing smash "competitively" since the WiiU release so i'm still fairly new to the off-stage game
Mines currently garbage and I generally don't see any benefit of chasing the opponent off stage when Luigi's recovery is questionable at times. Is there any good options aside from edge guarding with fireballs and attempting Dair's?

I usually just throw out a chain of fireballs. Short hop -> fireball -> grounded fireball -> short hop -> fireball and then I'll rotate the order just to keep it fresh.

However, there are a few things I've been experimenting with.

1) I very much enjoy running into the ledge and doing dash attack when whoever I'm playing likes to hop off of the ledge. Specifically, villagers that hop back and fair. You can also get them with an up smash if you're turned around.

2) The triple chop can be good sometimes. Dthrow near the ledge, then follow them off with 3-4 chops if you hop back up after the 3rd one and get them again.

3) I see Boss use d-tilt off of the ledge a little bit all the time and I'm wondering if it ends up being some kind of a soft spike and pushes them downward? I still have yet to try it though so for anyone that has possibly edge guarded with it, please fill me in.

4) Run off -> dair and run off -> 'nado are also good for stage spikes sometimes

 

[hey_there]

I haven't put much testing into Iceball but I can't think of any real benefits besides being a slower, more disruptive fireball that Luigi can't get as many followups from.

I thought the same thing until I actually started using them. They let you approach with active floating hit boxes which lets you pressure an opponent into a corner. On stages with platforms the ice effect will throw them upwards above the platform so you can get follow ups with sharking.

Is there any good options aside from edge guarding with fireballs and attempting Dair's?

Fair, Bair, Cyclone (if you can rise without a jump), and if you're really reading the other guy then side B. Nair is situationally useful too.

 

[Snakeob]

I have managed to soft spike a few people, especially the heavies like Ganon and Bowser, not much luck with any others however. I watched a lot of Boss as well, trying to learn from what he does in most situations as he was my inspiration for playing Luigi on a competitive level.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I thought the same thing until I actually started using them. They let you approach with active floating hit boxes which lets you pressure an opponent into a corner. On stages with platforms the ice effect will throw them upwards above the platform so you can get follow ups with sharking.

Hmm...that does sound pretty useful. The limited range and duration of the Iceball kinda hinders it's uses in Neutral. I think it'll be great when you have stage control tho. I'm not sure if it's pros make losing Fireball worth it. Maybe it works best in MUs that Luigi doesn't need much Fireball pressure in Neutral

 

[Illuminati sanic]

This thread serves to consolidate all the information we know about Luigi in Smash 4 - buffs, nerfs, general changes and all, as well as his moveset, including custom moves.

------------------------------------------------​

I have a streaming Japan 3ds and I've been playing the game while showing people DUCK HUNT DOG OVER AND OVER....but yeah from playing Luigi...he feels maybe "balanced"

Like some things feel changes for the better and some to keep him in check. Up-B (Combo or not) feels a little more tricky to pull off. Im not sure if its just the blast zones but some smash moves dont kill when I expect them to.

I might try to compile a better array of thoughts later but if anyone has anything in particular they want to know...feel free to ask here.

I'm not super pro or anything but he is my main :D

Ok, yeah, we get it. Luigi, clone of mario, what's so special about him?

 

[Soupy]

Ok, yeah, we get it. Luigi, clone of mario, what's so special about him?

Are you asking what's special about Luigi orrrrrr...........
I'm confused

Because if you are, prepare for a lengthy post

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Ok, yeah, we get it. Luigi, clone of mario, what's so special about him?

Illuminati, while I understand you are new to the forums, please provide more substantial content in your posts than what you posted here. It doesn't help or contribute anything to the discussion at hand. Not to mention that it is offensive to Luigi mains. This type of post is considered spam and can result in infractions so please keep this in mind before posting.

If you'd like to continue this discussion about your post, please contact me through Private Message or if you have any questions

To those who are viewing this thread, please do not respond to this post in an overtly negative manner and conduct yourselves in a civil Luigi manner

 

[Yonder]

Illuminati, while I understand you are new to the forums, please provide more substantial content in your posts than what you posted here. It doesn't help or contribute anything to the discussion at hand. Not to mention that it is offensive to Luigi mains. This type of post is considered spam and can result in infractions so please keep this in mind before posting.

If you'd like to continue this discussion about your post, please contact me through Private Message or if you have any questions

To those who are viewing this thread, please do not respond to this post in an overtly negative manner and conduct yourselves in a civil Luigi manner

Pretty much this. Also let's not discuss social Luigi manners in the gameplay discussion. Jamez asked if customs are ok to discuss here - I say they are as they are an aspect of gameplay.

That being said, I agree that quick/floating missile is the only custom really worth using. They seem pretty interchangeable to me, both offer something more useful in recovering [quick: Distance, floating: quick charge] I'd probably go floating though since you get enough distance from a full charge which is 2 seconds. Sometimes you actually go too far with quick.

Iceballs I hear [and on Gamefaqs] that they are far and away the best custom...I can see their value, but they will require a ton of mastery in order to time them to hit at just the right moment.

 

[Illuminati sanic]

Illuminati, while I understand you are new to the forums, please provide more substantial content in your posts than what you posted here. It doesn't help or contribute anything to the discussion at hand. Not to mention that it is offensive to Luigi mains. This type of post is considered spam and can result in infractions so please keep this in mind before posting.

If you'd like to continue this discussion about your post, please contact me through Private Message or if you have any questions

To those who are viewing this thread, please do not respond to this post in an overtly negative manner and conduct yourselves in a civil Luigi manner

Lol, I was just kidding, and yes, I'll try to follow these rules, and please, just call me sanic. Nurato is the worst character in smesh. He's an fegit. Even though Nurato isn't in smash, but still....

 

[Soupy]

Lol, I was just kidding, and yes, I'll try to follow these rules, and please, just call me sanic. Nurato is the worst character in smesh. He's an fegit. Even though Nurato isn't in smash, but still....

While I assume you're still joking, I believe this sticky is limited to discussion about Luigi game play. I'm afraid posts such as this might get you in trouble for spamming as well.
:[

Edit: However, the Pool Room or the General Character Discussion might be just the place for your shenanigans, my friend! You can discuss characters and general things to your hearts content.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So I was playing with the Iceball a bit yesterday (not training but in actual battle). I think it definitely has potential. The slow speed is pretty good for stage control and is an active hitbox while Luigi is free to do whatever (similar to what @ hey_there said). Luigi can outrun the Iceball and pressure the opponent before the Iceball reaches them in midrange. A couple of times I literally ran through my opponent and baited them to grab or spotdodge. Then the Iceball followed me up and caught their lag.

Follow ups from Iceball have some potential but overall require you to know they will be hit so you can position yourself properly. A couple times I was able to get a rising cyclone kill as they escaped from the ice. This was only because I was certain it was going to hit so I prepped myself. If you're not in position, they break out too quickly to follow up. Other times I was able to tack on a little extra percent while they were frozen with aerials.

Iceball can do some pretty cool stuff. I still prefer Fireball but Iceball could be used for some great mix ups and mind games. I'm not quite smart enough to unlock it's potential so I can't wait to see someone really put in work with it. Also, it doesn't freeze before 50%-60% and it's hitstun is greater than Fireball giving you easier hit confirms for grabs

 

[hey_there]

Also, it doesn't freeze before 50%-60% and it's hitstun is greater than Fireball giving you easier hit confirms for grabs

Freezes at 42%. Off a low percent grab you can easily get someone to 42%+ where they begin to shine.

 

[Soupy]

I think at this point, it all comes down to play style then. I enjoy the coverage that normal fireballs give you, especially when your opponent hops out of the ledge and you can get short hop > fireball > fireball > grab.

I could see how ice ball could be good for coverage, though. Sort of like how villager uses trees and lloids for stage pressure.

 

[Yonder]

Also worth noting is bouncing fireball. The cooldown sucks [like Mario's fireball] but it's nice in the air, and it has fantastic range, going more than half of FD if I can remember. Probably not a go to custom, but good for a few matchups. Mario would actually be a nice one, hits over his cape on the head and clanks his fireballs instead o the normal one going over it.

 

[hey_there]

Also worth noting is bouncing fireball. The cooldown sucks [like Mario's fireball] but it's nice in the air, and it has fantastic range, going more than half of FD if I can remember. Probably not a go to custom, but good for a few matchups. Mario would actually be a nice one, hits over his cape on the head and clanks his fireballs instead o the normal one going over it.

If you're using bouncing fireball against Mario he's probably using fast fireball against you, which gives Luigi complete hell. I'm not sure bouncing fireball helps much against fast fireball, but I don't think default fireball or iceball help much either, so maybe the extra distance with bouncing fireball makes it the best option afterall?

 

[Liwi808]

I've tried bouncing fireball, and I just don't find it useful. Anything you can do with bouncing fireball can be done with the same or better effectiveness with fireball + shorthop fireball. Plus you can't use it to get back onto the edge like you can without the horizontal trajectory (one of Luigi's biggest weaknesses).

 

[Yonder]

So I got smoked at a tourney yesterday. It was customs, so I wasn't really familiar with them all. Got murdered by Lucina's cresant slash [normally an easy match for me] and Fox's twisting fox [kills WAY too early, stupid move]. I only used floating missile, didn't really help much. Might opt for quick next time. So yeah...didn't go well.

On the other hand, I landed 99% of the dair spikes from a grab at mid %. That was cool!

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Seriously guys....Is there ever a reason to do any Dthrow->[insert kill move here] besides Dthrow->Down B? This combo seems too good. It can kill earlier than any other followup, especially with Rage. You get to focus much less on DI to ensure a hit. It's harder to escape. The other options are useful but I believe are all trumped except if Down B is stale. Here's where I think other KILL options are viable:

Dthrow->Up B => Use on big body characters, Style points

Dthrow->Dair => Mid-High percent spike offstage against characters with bad vertical recovery

Dthrow->Bair => Mid-High percent kill option from the ledge against characters with bad horizontal recovery

Dthrow->Uair => Kill option when you let your opponent's percent get too high

Dthrow->Nair => No longer viable

 

[hey_there]

Seriously guys....Is there ever a reason to do any Dthrow->[insert kill move here] besides Dthrow->Down B? This combo seems too good. It can kill earlier than any other followup, especially with Rage. You get to focus much less on DI to ensure a hit. It's harder to escape. The other options are useful but I believe are all trumped except if Down B is stale. Here's where I think other KILL options are viable:

Dthrow->Up B => Use on big body characters, Style points

Dthrow->Dair => Mid-High percent spike offstage against characters with bad vertical recovery

Dthrow->Bair => Mid-High percent kill option from the ledge against characters with bad horizontal recovery

Dthrow->Uair => Kill option when you let your opponent's percent get too high

Dthrow->Nair => No longer viable

I don't completely agree. It's the most reliable for sure, but dthrow -> up b kills the earliest, dthrow -> dair spike off the edge can be followed up with another dair spike to ensure even villager dies at mid percent, and dthrow -> bair can easily net you a gimp at mid percents. Dthrow -> sweet spot nair does more knockback than cyclone (assuming both are fresh) so it can actually kill slightly earlier.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I don't completely agree. It's the most reliable for sure, but dthrow -> up b kills the earliest, dthrow -> dair spike off the edge can be followed up with another dair spike to ensure even villager dies at mid percent, and dthrow -> bair can easily net you a gimp at mid percents. Dthrow -> sweet spot nair does more knockback than cyclone (assuming both are fresh) so it can actually kill slightly earlier.

At high percents I just don't see a reason to use anything but Dthrow->Down B. I've grabbed and killed Captain Falcon at around 85% with rage using it. I don't think Nair would kill at that percent. Up B is too risky for my blood in a tournament setting. Those two options may have more knockback but the fact that Down B pulls you closer to the blast zone creates about the same effect if not better. I would like to be convinced otherwise because I'm not really a fan of abusing moves but if it's reliably taking stocks and winning matches then imma keep using it in tournaments.

 

[Soupy]

Seriously guys....Is there ever a reason to do any Dthrow->[insert kill move here] besides Dthrow->Down B? This combo seems too good. It can kill earlier than any other followup, especially with Rage. You get to focus much less on DI to ensure a hit. It's harder to escape. The other options are useful but I believe are all trumped except if Down B is stale. Here's where I think other KILL options are viable:

Dthrow->Up B => Use on big body characters, Style points

Dthrow->Dair => Mid-High percent spike offstage against characters with bad vertical recovery

Dthrow->Bair => Mid-High percent kill option from the ledge against characters with bad horizontal recovery

Dthrow->Uair => Kill option when you let your opponent's percent get too high

Dthrow->Nair => No longer viable

I dont understand why Dthrow->Nair isn't viable anymore? IMO it's a decent kill option past 110% on light characters since they're pretty much outside of Dthrow->Up B range. 'Nado is good too but if I'm confident I can hit a sweet spot nair and kill off of a low ceiling/high percent, I'm gonna go for it.

 

[Yonder]

With customs, Luigi would have probably approached best in the game...

If his wave dashing custom wasn't cut. It looks so awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

With customs, Luigi would have probably approached best in the game...

If his wave dashing custom wasn't cut. It looks so awesome.

Wavedashing custom?
Is there a video or something of this?

 

[Yonder]

Wavedashing custom?
Is there a video or something of this?

It was posted on the news here a long while ago by TheDerrit...I can't find it now sadly. Will update when I do. It was a video of all unsed customs for all characters...Luigi had by far the best via the wavedash thing.