The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Vayseth]

I enjoy this tier list. I like it much more than the other one. Good job SBR! ICs should definitely be higher, unless they are being taken in a context of their CG may or may not be banned depending on where the tournament is held. I also think D3 is better than Falco but that's really a moot point. All they both do is CG people =P

 

[Milos]

Lucas' bair isn't bad.

doesn't put him above ness but just sayin

 

[Dark Paladin X]

Here's where I stopped reading. There are no girls on the internet.

Lol, I try not to be sexist here.

Anyways, the point being is tiers doesn't really matter, skill is more important (this is a tl:dr version of my previous post in this thread).

 

[Umby]

Lol, I try not to be sexist here.

Anyways, the point being is tiers doesn't really matter, skill is more important (this is a tl:dr version of my previous post in this thread).

No one is saying that skill isn't important. The point of this tier list isn't... Oh wait, this has already been posted for me:

A tier list is an ordered list of the characters based on their competitive value in the current metagame. It basically shows which characters are currently doing well in tournaments. Note that player skill is more important than character choice and match ups can overcome tier differences, but at an equal player level a bottom tier character will usually have a very tough time against a top tier character. This list will probably change over time, as Brawl is still relatively young and the Melee tiers were debated until the very end. So don’t give up on your character just yet, maybe you’re the one to make a difference!

=/

 

[Milos]

Ness has stuff that should get him more higher than lucas.

did I play you in melee at toywiz in august?

if not sorry for bugging you lol

 

[Da Man]

Ness has stuff that should get him more higher than lucas.

Now that I agree with.

At least Mario has moved up 2 places and now tops his group . Still the lowest of the 4 Mushroom Kingdom characters though .

 

[Milos]

wow marth is good....

 

[Phantom7]

I actually would have put Ganondorf at the bottom. C. Falcon is much easier to use since he's faster and has better jump. I guess people just don't know how to use Falcon, but I'm actually not bad with him, and I don't use him much.

I also think Toon Link (and Link) should be higher tier. When I fight Toon Link, people usually spam his smash attacks and down air, which both do a lot of knockback so the lag time after the attack doesn't even matter much. I also thought Link is much better now than in Melee, and some of his attacks (especially side smash) are a bit overpowered.

Overall, I liked the old list better, and I still think there needs to be a few changes. Just move Falcon, Toon Link, Link, and Pit higher, and that will make it a lot better.

Btw, I said Pit because he is one of the easiest characters to camp with and he has pretty much the most spammable moveset in the game, especially his arrow, which does as much as Wolf's blaster, but faster, works in multiple directions, and goes all the way across the screen.

 

[Jimnymebob]

nah, theyre not equal though.id say lucas is good where is is now, but ness should go up about 3-4 more spots up.>.>

I didn't think they were equal, I'm just happy that Lucas isn't above Ness like he was on the last tier list. Ness should be a little bit higher than Lucas as you say.

 

[Phantom7]

Lol, I try not to be sexist here.

Anyways, the point being is tiers doesn't really matter, skill is more important (this is a tl:dr version of my previous post in this thread).

That is true, most of the time at least, sometimes I dominate with Captain Falcon, even though he's still bottom tier. My brothers are both awesome with Ness and Lucas, and they're not top tier, either. So mostly it does depend on skill.

Although, some match-ups like Sheik and Ganondorf are completely unfair, because a level-9 Ganondorf has a 5% chance of winning against a level-9 Sheik. But CPUs kind of suck anyway, and tiers shouldn't be judged by the way they play.

 

[Zankoku]

A level-9 anything should have a 50% chance of winning against a level-9 anything else. If you honestly think matchups are determined through battles between CPU players, then you're going to have to read up a little.

I don't understand spam, overpowered, and high cooldown time being in the same sentence.

 

[AOB]

...mmm, no, some of the computer's characters have got to work better than others. I know in Melee CPU Ganon was pretty beastly.

 

[Umby]

Pit isn't the easiest to camp with. Olimar is.

 

[kr3wman]

...mmm, no, some of the computer's characters have got to work better than others. I know in Melee CPU Ganon was pretty beastly.

jump over ganon, ganon UpBs, punish, jump over ganon, ganon upBs, punish...

Only thing that makes him frustrating is that he just jabs through everything. And that CPUs, as soon as you put up your shield, ran in to grab you.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Pit isn't the easiest to camp with. Olimar is.

He said "one of" not "the". And Ledgecamping>Olimars camping.

 

[Darknid]

Why is Link so low? His recovery?

 

[Napilopez]

...mmm, no, some of the computer's characters have got to work better than others. I know in Melee CPU Ganon was pretty beastly.

In Brawl, Mario, Peach, and Luigi level 9 are actually kinda scary sometimes. Fox's AI seems a bit more advanced too.

 

[AOB]

jump over ganon, ganon UpBs, punish, jump over ganon, ganon upBs, punish...

Only thing that makes him frustrating is that he just jabs through everything. And that CPUs, as soon as you put up your shield, ran in to grab you.

I didn't mean that I had trouble with Ganon CPUs, silly. I've been playing in tournaments a little too long for that. I was just comparing him to other CPU characters.

 

[Vorguen]

Pit isn't the easiest to camp with. Olimar is.

If you put Falco on FD nobody can camp better than he can >.>

 

[Red Arremer]

Why is Link so low? His recovery?

He's just generally bad.

 

[Napilopez]

He's just generally bad.

Not really imo. Not really worse then the rest than the bottom/Low characters if he had a better recovery. Link is very technical and actually could be quite good had it not been for his lackluster recovery. Literally any character can gimp him with ease, and at high level play against several of the higher tier chars I can see about 50% or more of your KOs coming from gimps. Heck, I've even seen poor Link's try to gimp me, and once they do, realize they can't recover... so tragic.

 

[Dalub]

TL is an overestimated middle tier T.T (same with olimar)
or the new letter tier i dont like that i preffer God/top, high, middle and low
Way better!

 

[Face124]

Why is Link so low? His recovery?

Precisely what I was thinking.

 

[Zylar]

A level-9 anything should have a 50% chance of winning against a level-9 anything else. If you honestly think matchups are determined through battles between CPU players, then you're going to have to read up a little.

I don't understand spam, overpowered, and high cooldown time being in the same sentence.

It will be skewed, because the comps learn from your playstyle.
Not necessarily in a good way, some comps who try to do what you do fail and make "bad habits"
Most likely your shiek is better than most other people's CPU shieks.

http://allisbrawl.com/video/video.aspx?id=10408

http://allisbrawl.com/video/video.aspx?id=10268

 

[ChronoPenguin]

*sigh* I'm quite calmer from before, so I ask you. Whats wrong with Yoshi now? What's halting an increase in the rankings for him?

 

[fox219]

Why is Link so low? His recovery?

for me, recovery means hardly anything. just advance over you opponent and have them recover. EPIC PAYBACK

 

[Sliq]

It will be skewed, because the comps learn from your playstyle.

Smash Bros. Computer =/= Skynet

 

[Mr. Rogu]

why the crap is snake in his own top/god tier list like meta knight. snake isnt a god, hes barely even good. what the SBR should consider is seperating the 3 pokemon from PT. there not all the same and squirtle and ivysaur dont deserve that low of a tier placing. and how is bowser higher than fox, thats just idiotic.

 

[Daimonster]

I think this is a very good description of the current metagame tier wise. Excellent work and props to the SBR for creating this list. Based on the most recent events, this list (involving characters placed in tiers) is extremely accurate.

 

[jokey665]

why the crap is snake in his own top/god tier list like meta knight. snake isnt a god, hes barely even good. what the SBR should consider is seperating the 3 pokemon from PT. there not all the same and squirtle and ivysaur dont deserve that low of a tier placing. and how is bowser higher than fox, thats just idiotic.

You should try reading the thread.

 

[Trillion]

You sound like a smart guy, and I can tell by your user name that you're really good at this game. Would you like to joint the SBR? You can help us spend time wisely making a well-constructed, meaningful, informed tier list based on tournament results and the opinions of informed and qualified people.

I never once claimed that I am smart or even good at the game. My point is that I don't believe that every character is evenly represented in the SBR by the top players of each character nor do I believe that a tier list based on voting even makes sense. How many people in the SBR who voted play metaknight? How many play Ganondorf? How many play Sheik? THAT is my point. I really doubt that there are many people who can claim to have a very extensive understanding of EVERY character in brawl at this point in the game.

Rather than make a tier list that is clearly flawed based upon the above reasoning, I believe that it should be the SBR's duty to do something more productive than this. The SBR is supposed to be "A private forum for respected and knowledgeable tournament organizers and players to discuss competitive Brawl. Admission is by invitation only. Only the best and brightest." This means that since only the "best and brightest" are allowed in the SBR, that meaningful information should be coming from the SBR. Let me give an example of what I mean. Perhaps the SBR can do something like make an official list of legal stages since:

there is no official stage legality lists. Nothing's been banned as yet (though there's a few that are pretty safe to assume, looking at you Hyrule, Poky, Warioware) and as soon as something is decided on, a new topic will be posted with the Smash Back Room's list.

I'm sure plenty of people would be glad to see this happen. SamuraiPanda should not have to make a "Smash Lab."

Many of you must be wondering what the Smash Lab is, so let me fill you in on what I'm hoping to do with it. Here are some of the goals I hope to fulfill through the Smash Lab:

- Making "official" names for ATs we've discovered
- Making "official" frame data we find for characters
- Discovering new techniques
- Learning new codes for hacking the game, as well as new projects for modding the game in general
- Gathering "official" numbers and data for a wide variety of things such as character weight or length of glide tosses.
- Learning more about the game wherever and whenever possible (i.e. researching reasons for why some DI work better than others, figuring out why some ATs work although we have no idea, etc.)

And more.


As you can see, I'm hoping to make The Smash Lab into the most knowledgeable place on the boards, and we fully intend on sharing the knowledge with all of you whenever we discover it. We'll try to figure out things like if Wario's Dthrow really is an infinite against some characters, or if there is some way to alter the properties of specific moves through hacking the game. Yes, The Smash Lab will include Brawl hacking as one of the the many different aspects of the game we'd like to study. As of right now our purpose is fairly undefined, but I hope, as the new leader of this group, to make The Smash Lab into something incredible. But of course, I'll need the help of dedicated Smashers like those here to make this possible.

The things outlined here should be the duties of the SBR. Who else can be expected to do a better job of unraveling the mysteries of the game and to help spread information and new discoveries other than the "best and brightest?"

 

[DarkPikmin]

The things outlined here should be the duties of the SBR. Who else can be expected to do a better job of unraveling the mysteries of the game and to help spread information and new discoveries other than the "best and brightest?"

*sniff sniff tears* thats the most beautiful thing i have ever heard. cookie to you

 

[Ham Enterprises]

why the crap is snake in his own top/god tier list like meta knight. snake isnt a god, hes barely even good. what the SBR should consider is seperating the 3 pokemon from PT. there not all the same and squirtle and ivysaur dont deserve that low of a tier placing. and how is bowser higher than fox, thats just idiotic.

Yeah, but after enough time that they are on the field, the pokemon start becoming slower, weaker, and trip more frequently.

 

[YagamiLight]

Yeah, but after enough time that they are on the field, the pokemon start becoming slower, weaker, and trip more frequently.

The only thing that happens is that their damage output and launch power lessens. The kill moves are still powerful enough to send you away for them to switch and kill you.

 

[Sharky]

*sigh* I'm quite calmer from before, so I ask you. Whats wrong with Yoshi now? What's halting an increase in the rankings for him?

Simply put, it's a vote, and we just didn't convince everyone, yet. Personally, I'm just gonna let it go, and be sure to make it better for next time. I'm sure you'll do the same. =D

 

[Barge]

why the crap is snake in his own top/god tier list like meta knight. snake isnt a god, hes barely even good. what the SBR should consider is seperating the 3 pokemon from PT. there not all the same and squirtle and ivysaur dont deserve that low of a tier placing. and how is bowser higher than fox, thats just idiotic.

Snake, not good?
His tilts and upsmash say hi.

Pokemon trainer is not seperated due to forced switch when re-spawned, and fatique.

 

[Zankoku]

Ahead of time, I'm going to say that Rogu and Ham have no idea what they're talking about. o_O

The things outlined here should be the duties of the SBR. Who else can be expected to do a better job of unraveling the mysteries of the game and to help spread information and new discoveries other than the "best and brightest?"

You don't have to be smart to run a couple tests and record data. Nor do you have to be capable of calculating how much knockback an attack will have based on the % of the victim in order to have a strong understanding of how the game is played.

 

[Trillion]

You don't have to be smart to run a couple tests and record data. Nor do you have to be capable of calculating how much knockback an attack will have based on the % of the victim in order to have a strong understanding of how the game is played.

I never once mentioned calculating knockback or % damage. Read my post before responding.

 

[Zankoku]

Calculating knockback, finding frame data, determining the exact physics of the game, etc. are what the Smash Lab does. Why do you have to explicitly mention the Smash Lab's plan in order for me to reference it?

 

[Trillion]

Calculating knockback, finding frame data, determining the exact physics of the game, etc. are what the Smash Lab does. Why do you have to explicitly mention the Smash Lab's plan in order for me to reference it?

Wait... were you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

Also, I was specifically referring to the things that samuraipanda listed. Frame data wasn't my primary concern though, which is I guess what you are referring to. I was mainly wanting to refer to such things as

-Discovering new techniques
- Learning new codes for hacking the game, as well as new projects for modding the game in general
- Learning more about the game wherever and whenever possible (i.e. researching reasons for why some DI work better than others, figuring out why some ATs work although we have no idea, etc.)

And more.

Most importantly I wanted to refer to advance techs and figuring out why some ATs work.