Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Oasis_S]

Oasis_Scaled down?

 

[IsmaR]

There's no maid description in that.

Edit: Welcome back, Mr. Lange.

 

[Mr Lange]

Not going to bother with the recent retorts that ignored my past writing. My arguments concerning Master Hand and Rayquaza had very little to do with size. Not only that but someone else made that same mistake earlier, and I had to point THAT out already. That's meta-ignoring. Good god.

Spoiler

Y'KNOW, I'm curious Mr. Lange, what do you think of my Ridley design:

I kind of just threw the wings on there pretty quickly, but they wouldn't be part of his hurtbox so I didn't care that much. They should be a bit bigger since even Charizard's are bigger than his. Anyway, his body faces forward mostly, reducing his overall length. This allows his neck to appear scrunched up in a way that also keeps his head closer to his body. His head would also still be visible whether facing left or right. Overall his hurtbox remains in a pretty clear area. His tail is short like in Super Metroid, but not only has it appeared "stretchy" before in Metroid games, Smash is no stranger to using exaggerated animations like that to compensate. Speaking of Smash's exaggerated animations, his wings would also appear larger as they flapped, I imagine.

I made rather strict rules for myself for his size. He couldn't be taller than Bowser overall, the top of his head couldn't go over Ganondorf's, and he had to be at least eye level with Samus. He could stand to be a bit bigger, if that was really necessary. Maybe 10, 15%.

I tried to portray him as rather bestial, since that is apparently how Sakurai seems to view him, though I probably should have made his arms and hands in a more "ready to attack" stance. I figure Ridley's walk would have him, y'know, walking, and I think this stance would transition well enough into that kind of animation (and of course going into a flying dash shouldn't be a problem), but if he ends up galloping or crawling on all-fours then that stance probably wouldn't work.

So yeah, honestly, is it terrible, does it not work for him, what. OF COURSE OTHERS CAN COMMENT ON IT TO, been a while since I've brought it up and I think putting it in the collapse tag probably kept some people from ever seeing it.

You did a good job. Your approach to the design is smart. But that doesn't feel like Ridley to me. It feels like some kind of underling that Ridley might have.

Mr. Lange, you really need to exercise some humility in your posts.

Would it hurt to recognize that others may not see things your way? Not in terms of right and wrong, but in varying angles of the discussion. Not everything you're arguing can be solid fact. In fact, this is the kind of debate that relies on speculations and theories and mostly anecdotal evidence. Not that there isn't facts and hard evidence to consider, but the point is you have to be careful in how you regard your own arguments. This constant dismissal of other people's interpretations and replies causes you to look hostile in your efforts to make solid arguments. Believing your own arguments to be exceptional creates arrogance and further encourages dismissing other replies. Interpretation runs high in these considerations of a game character's role, so you should try to bear with other people if they see things from a different perspective.

Your goal should be to present your perspective, back it up, and just see what other people come up with. Try not to narrow the possible range of responses. If the response you receive seems to curve away from your point, address their argument anyway and steer it back to your primary point. Or consider that the response comes from a different perspective.

I know all of that. I was doing none of the things you are accusing me of. The fact that you think this leads me to believe my posts were deliberately ignored, due to the bias of others. How many times have I said "Most arguments here have been really good" or, in response to someone, "that's a good point"? I said my arguments were good, but I never said my arguments were better than others. I said we all have good points to make. It was when others were saying I had no logic and poor arguments that I defended what I said, because I do use logic and my arguments are not bad. Apparently that equates to "me thinking I'm the only person whose right"? I argue aggressively, but that's not the same thing as being hostile or trying to dominate.

New counter argument for Ridley.

So Bowser uses magic at different instances in the Mario series. Ridley has been cloned how many times?

We could just say the Ridley in Smash is a smaller clone

I have to say that's probably the only way they could get away with including Ridley. If anything they would use that excuse if they add him.

 

[LaniusShrike]

They don't need excuses to change his size.

The canon of Smash Bros isn't that all these characters are coming together to fight each other.

The canon is that there are a bunch of dolls and trophies of famous Nintendo characters coming together to fight.

 

[RODO]

Dear Mr Lange,

I feel that there have been several games where characters who didn't seem to fit made an appearance. Just look at pacman in Street Fighter X Tekken. He shouldn't have had a chance in that game but they made a way for it to work. It shouldn't be hard to do.

Sincerely,

RODO

 

[BKupa666]

Ridley was originally intended to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl, not a boss. He's a versatile character that can fit into whatever role the developers want him in, and if they feel like 'putting their best efforts' into making him playable, as Sakurai said, it could work. And if they don't, it won't...it's that simple.

 

[Phaazoid]

Pleased to meet you, I'm Wariofan1. I don't main, and hardly even alt Wario anymore. He was not my most anticipated character for Brawl, he isn't my favorite Nintendo character, I haven't played a WarioWare game in years, and the only Wario games I enjoy these days are Wario Land 2 and Wario Land: Shake Dimension. But as you can still read, I am obviously still the #1 Wario fan, because my name says so.

I swear, this is the forum I'm the most active on recently, and it's the last place I have this dreaded name, and I have no idea why I even have it since I had dropped the name a long time ago in 2010, which is my sign up date. It kind of gives off the wrong impression of me, I'd much rather be named something that actually has to do with my Smash Bros activity, but nope, stuck with this hell of a name.

I guess we all have our embarrasing childhood online names.

What? Wario Land 3 is my favorite, by far. But yeah, we seem to be in the same boat xD.

I think I found a... fix... though.

Also went with my real name as a username.~ It was unique sounding enough already.

It is, I'll give you that. Didn't Gyspy do that too? I've always liked unique names. I was *this* close to being named Cosmo. Got a boring old bible name instead. Now I'm one of 6 Daniels on my floor. such is life xD.

The canon is that there are a bunch of dolls and trophies of famous Nintendo characters coming together to fight.

Honestly, other than the melee trailer, this is the best bit of argument I can think of. The trailer for Smash 64 sums it all up pretty nicely. I do love the 'ol Master hand and his collection of dolls. I can see him pulling a Ridley doll outta the chest and hurling him onto final destination. Actually, it's so awesome I'm getting chills...

 

[Reznor]

It is, I'll give you that. Didn't Gyspy do that too? I've always liked unique names. I was *this* close to being named Cosmo. Got a boring old bible name instead. Now I'm one of 6 Daniels on my floor. such is life xD.

my mom almost names me Kenji or Ashkon because she wanted a unique name but my name is even less common than both of those

Edit: wrong thread for that question opps

 

[Phaazoid]

my mom almost names me Kenji or Ashkon because she wanted a unique name but my name is even less common than both of those

Edit: wrong thread for that question opps

Just throw in a bit about Ridley at the end you'll be fine. While there isn't any serious arguing going on it's fine for Ridley's harem to discuss slightly not ridley things, as long as ridlet things are being discussed at the same time. It's a thin line, you learn to dance around it.

Personally, I'll be happy as long as Ridley gets some kind of tail attack. His jab combo, a throw, dash attack, whatever, as long as he maims with it somehow, I'll be happy.

 

[Reznor]

Just throw in a bit about Ridley at the end you'll be fine. While there isn't any serious arguing going on it's fine for Ridley's harem to discuss slightly not ridley things, as long as ridlet things are being discussed at the same time. It's a thin line, you learn to dance around it.

Personally, I'll be happy as long as Ridley gets some kind of tail attack. His jab combo, a throw, dash attack, whatever, as long as he maims with it somehow, I'll be happy.

ya it would be pretty easy to give him a move set
his final smash could be I don't know more fireballs than usual

 

[Phaazoid]

ya it would be pretty easy to give him a move set
his final smash could be I don't know more fireballs than usual

I like to think his final smash would be something like the Dragoon, except instead of just knocking them away, he'd grab them with his talons, and then you'd see them falling off in the distance. Maybe you get 3 goes at it, or one per enemy. I dislike the space pirate ideas, just imo.

 

[Mr Lange]

I like to think his final smash would be something like the Dragoon, except instead of just knocking them away, he'd grab them with his talons, and then you'd see them falling off in the distance. Maybe you get 3 goes at it, or one per enemy. I dislike the space pirate ideas, just imo.

I also disagree with the space pirates. I'd be ashamed of them if they did a Palutena final smash sort of thing with a space pirate raid. That isn't his style, he just litters the ****ers all over stages and when he's confronted he fights very one on one.
Now that this has been brought up I realize just how difficult it has been to come up with a final smash for Ridley.
The only thing that does come to mind is his Super Metroid zoom-in-from-the-background attack (as seen in Brawl, and Master Hand does this as well), or in other words the reverse Dragoon. But doesn't Ridley have anything more outstanding than that? Something must exist that would make for a fitting final smash for him that isn't so standard.

 

[IsmaR]

It is, I'll give you that. Didn't Gyspy do that too? I've always liked unique names. I was *this* close to being named Cosmo. Got a boring old bible name instead. Now I'm one of 6 Daniels on my floor. such is life xD.

I don't really remember much about Gypsy (other than the picture incident), but even then I always assumed that was him being...well, him.

And that's unfortunate (I guess. I like Daniel~). I actually just barely edged out all my siblings, bar my older sister who apparently disappeared from existence (in fact, as far as my parents are concerned, they had no daughter until my little sister was born), for the unique name thing. To the point where I couldn't even pronounce it myself as a youngin' so I ended up taking a nickname anyway. As it turns out I'm only known by the name here.

Life is funny like that.

Moving on, I honestly wonder if the developers for ANY Metroid game (let alone Smash) ever have to worry about these kind of things. Considering he changes size. Every. Single. Appearance. There might as well be a "He's already been that size, make him different" thing going on. Even Samus herself seems to suffer from this (she apparently went to being 6'3" WITHOUT her suit on to being a full head under Anthony/nearly every male in Other M. Unless every person in the GF is apparently 7' tall, I doubt Samus is as tall as she's supposed to be).

Canon be damned, every developer/director seems to have their own take on things (which I'm not saying is good or bad), including how big/menacing they imagine the monsters Samus fights are. It tends to be a lot more epic if the genocidal archenemy you are fighting could eat you in one gulpdrag you across the wall with one hand and make it look as if it was nothing. I'm more than certain Sakurai/Sora of all people could make Ridley capture all that monstrous goodness in a smaller, but equally as menacing package. If it's even half as good the Melee intro, that's still more than enough.

That all said, I also have no idea what would be "him" as far as Final Smash is concerned. I imagined the Meta/Omega forme back in the day, and can kind of see the generic fireball-clearing-out-the-stage attack or wall-dragging-grab from Other M/DoA Dimensions. If anything I'd also imagine that "dark" armor from the Other M fight would also work in a pseudo-Giga Bowser way.

as long as ridlet things are being discussed at the same time. It's a thin line, you learn to dance around it.

I live to please and dance for Mistress Ridlette.

 

[El Fonz0]

I also disagree with the space pirates. I'd be ashamed of them if they did a Palutena final smash sort of thing with a space pirate raid. That isn't his style, he just litters the ****ers all over stages and when he's confronted he fights very one on one.
Now that this has been brought up I realize just how difficult it has been to come up with a final smash for Ridley.
The only thing that does come to mind is his Super Metroid zoom-in-from-the-background attack (as seen in Brawl, and Master Hand does this as well), or in other words the reverse Dragoon. But doesn't Ridley have anything more outstanding than that? Something must exist that would make for a fitting final smash for him that isn't so standard.

I still stand by my thought of Kraid wrecking stuff from the background

 

[Mr Lange]

That all said, I also have no idea what would be "him" as far as Final Smash is concerned. I imagined the Meta/Omega forme back in the day, and can kind of see the generic fireball-clearing-out-the-stage attack or wall-dragging-grab from Other M/DoA Dimensions. If anything I'd also imagine that "dark" armor from the Other M fight would also work in a pseudo-Giga Bowser way.

Well that just gave me an idea. If Samus can materialize her armor back together in a big vortex magnet thing, Ridley could transform into Meta Ridley in the same fashion. The parts materializing and attaching to him for a transformation type of final smash like Giga Bowser.

 

[Phaazoid]

I also disagree with the space pirates. I'd be ashamed of them if they did a Palutena final smash sort of thing with a space pirate raid. That isn't his style, he just litters the ****ers all over stages and when he's confronted he fights very one on one.
Now that this has been brought up I realize just how difficult it has been to come up with a final smash for Ridley.
The only thing that does come to mind is his Super Metroid zoom-in-from-the-background attack (as seen in Brawl, and Master Hand does this as well), or in other words the reverse Dragoon. But doesn't Ridley have anything more outstanding than that? Something must exist that would make for a fitting final smash for him that isn't so standard.

Yeah I agree Ridley's final smash needs to be all up in your face. Maybe something Ike or linky where if he gets ya he rips you a new one. Maybe he'd impale you with his tail and drag you across the stage a bit. hehe.

I don't really remember much about Gypsy (other than the picture incident), but even then I always assumed that was him being...well, him.

And that's unfortunate (I guess. I like Daniel~). I actually just barely edged out all my siblings, bar my older sister who apparently disappeared from existence (in fact, as far as my parents are concerned, they had no daughter until my little sister was born), for the unique name thing. To the point where I couldn't even pronounce it myself as a youngin' so I ended up taking a nickname anyway. As it turns out I'm only known by the name here.

Life is funny like that.


That all said, I also have no idea what would be "him" as far as Final Smash is concerned. I imagined the Meta/Omega forme back in the day, and can kind of see the generic fireball-clearing-out-the-stage attack or wall-dragging-grab from Other M/DoA Dimensions. If anything I'd also imagine that "dark" armor from the Other M fight would also work in a pseudo-Giga Bowser way.



I live to please and dance for Mistress Ridlette.

And here I am complaining about the name Daniel. To be fair, I don't dislike it. I just name all my vijeogame avatars cosmo instead xD. Sounds more... grand?


As for tranformation final smash, idk, I'm kind of meh about them. The only transformation that would make much sense would be Omega imo (he grows... metal?) but I'm not sure I love that idea. Idk, it's not bad, just not... feral enough? I just like the idea of a single target thing, I guess.

 

[Keeshu]

As much as I love the space pirates. I don't really think Ridley is known for being a leader even if he is one. I only knew about Ridley being a leader because of only a few logs that the space pirates had in their computers in metroid prime (on a second playthrough because apparently I missed it on my first run). Which to me first response was "wtf? Really!?!? Ridley, the savage space dragon thing is with the space pirates!?!? and he's their leader!?!? so awesome!.... Even if it's hard to believe him as being a cool-headed calculating leader....."

So as a personal preference I think Ridley should use some other move that is much more well known than spawning space pirates on the stage
Transformation seems a little strange to me since he never really transforms in front of you, but then again, with the nature of smash balls that's not really much of a problem.
However, whatever final smash he gets is fine by me.
Whether it's some special fireball/firebreath attack, him grabbing people with his tail, or the flying thing he does in Super metroid, doesn't matter to me. They are willing to put in whatever final smash they want, since a lot of the characters get a final smash that is never in their games.

 

[Oasis_S]

The zooming-into-your-face thing would look pretty good on the 3DS, I imagine.

I went with the Space Pirates because transforming into Meta/Omega Ridley always seemed very uncreative, as well as not making much sense (and usually plays to the toobigger crowd as in "look they can make him his normal size for a Final Smash!" implying his size is an important part of his character and that his downsizing is a special case for him specifically). I also just don't like either of those designs very much, lol. With the Space Pirate raid, even if it's not something Ridley would do (which I felt it was since your first battle with him in Prime 3 was during a space pirate attack? Then there's the whole leading an attack on Samus's home colony thing), it would at least be a nice little reference to his role in the games even if that role is not very obvious.

 

[Phaazoid]

The Zooming-into-your-face thing would look pretty good on the 3DS, I imagine.

Maybe Ridley pokes your eye out. Like, the player. With his tail. It's 3D, so they can do that. That'd be an effective final smash.

 

[Erimir]

Ridley could call upon his buddy Kraid. I always thought of them as a pair of sorts.

 

[Oasis_S]

I would like that a lot actually, as I too think of them as a sort of pair, but I would wonder how feasible that is since each stage would have to be able to accommodate him? Though Palutena could do it, so I guess it would be okay for Kraid as well, though he also has the task of interacting with the stage, which may be slightly more tricky.

Imagine half his body clipping through the wall of, say, an enclosed cave type of area, or even having his attack be completely useless as he scrolls away with stages like Rumble Falls. One reason Palutena worked is because she just kind of floated there in the background.

 

[IsmaR]

If it were like Ice Climbers' Iceberg, wouldn't see any problem with it. His fights usually consist of him popping out from underground in a cave.

Also the thought of Kraid on a stage like Lylat Cruise just makes me happy for some reason. SUDDENLY KRAID IN SPACE.​

​

 

[FalKoopa]

Remember my post on WaRidley?

Thanks to qdMbp, it's now a reality.

Comparing Ridley to Waluigi? Why, that's completely...

WHOA OH MY GOD WHAT'S THAT?

 

[DarkKry4]

Ridley was originally intended to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl, not a boss. He's a versatile character that can fit into whatever role the developers want him in, and if they feel like 'putting their best efforts' into making him playable, as Sakurai said, it could work. And if they don't, it won't...it's that simple.

I don't see him going from boss to playable because they already decided his fate. He was a boss in the last game for a reason. The developers don't see him as someone that could be a playable character.

Ridley will not be in this game. Seeing a miniature version of him being put in the game (the likelihood of which is very low) is just wishful thinking on everyone's part.

 

[Oasis_S]

I guess Villager is forever doomed to be too peaceful for a fighting game, Little Mac will continue being only an Assist Trophy, Charizard merely to be found in a Pokeball, and King Dedede as a sprite floating in the background.

After all, their fates have already been decided.

 

[DarkKry4]

I guess Villager is forever doomed to be too peaceful for a fighting game, Little Mac will continue being only an Assist Trophy, Charizard merely to be found in a Pokeball, and King Dedede as a sprite floating in the background.

After all, their fates have already been decided.

A bad comparison.


You don't really expect him to change his size do you?

 

[Mr Lange]

DarkKry. Before you start this, read the last 6 pages. I've argued just about every point there is to be made about Ridley here with other members. Try not to repeat everything that just happened.

 

[Oasis_S]

It's a perfect comparison, lol.

I expect him to be playable, whatever happens to make that work is all part of a process which every character has gone through and is not special to Ridley.

 

[DarkKry4]

It's a perfect comparison, lol.

I expect him to be playable, whatever happens to make that work is all part of a process which every character has gone through and is not special to Ridley.

No its not. Because none of those listed were previous smashbros bosses who were king kong sized.


He doesn't have a big chance at all. Well when they shrink down Master hand and make him a playable character, then maybe i'd say otherwise.

I just know alot of games tend to keep bosses as bosses.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No its not. Because none of those listed were previous smashbros bosses who were king kong sized.


He doesn't have a big chance at all. Well when they shrink down Master hand and make him a playable character, then maybe i'd say otherwise.

I just know alot of games tend to keep bosses as bosses.

Ridley's size changes all throughout the Metroid and Smash Bros series. A smaller size is not out of the question.


A lot of games tend to keep items as items. Look what happened. Besides, do you know how many games have made previous bosses playable in later installments?

A FRICKEN SH*T TON THATS WHAT!

Regardless of that, I've only seen you in the Krystal and Ridley threads, berating those characters both times. Why are you in a support thread if you don't support the character?

 

[UberMadman]

A bad comparison.


You don't really expect him to change his size do you?

Nope, and I don't expect Olimar to grow from the size of a quarter either.

 

[DarkKry4]

Ridley's size changes all throughout the Metroid and Smash Bros series. A smaller size is not out of the question.


A lot of games tend to keep items as items. Look what happened. Besides, do you know how many games have made previous bosses playable in later installments?

A FRICKEN SH*T TON THATS WHAT!

Regardless of that, I've only seen you in the Krystal and Ridley threads, berating those characters both times. Why are you in a support thread if you don't support the character?

Were they bosses that were king kong sized? of course not.

Charizard wasn't king kong sized when he was a pokeball in Smash Bros 64 :/

Where have i said anything negative about Ridley? Probably in your head.


I don't hate Ridley at all. I'm quite fond of him. Realistically, he doesn't have a chance though. He was in Smash Bros Brawl at the size the Smash Bros team wanted him to be.

 

[Oasis_S]

Are you willfully ignoring the bigger picture.

Brawl (since this pattern you're going on is literally based on 1 game) used characters from other series as some of its bosses. To be given such a role, one would think they'd be rather important or popular characters. Characters that would be contenders for a playable status when the next game roles around. Let's not forget Porky. Ridley being two bosses was Sakurai's way of accommodating a very popular character that didn't make it as playable, because he knew people would be happy and excited to see this character they like in any way at all. Petey Piranha is a good example of this, because while he's not exactly the most important character, he had some requests which Sakurai noted himself (though what he said is unknown) which likely led to his status as a boss (and of course he just fit that role very nicely).

So anyway, now that there is a new game, this character that was once a boss remains a very popular character requested for playable status. Do you ignore this just because of what has previously been done?

And for Ridley specifically, if you could just ignore minor design choices for a moment, how would being big negate everything else he has going for him.

 

[IsmaR]

I just know alot of games tend to keep bosses as bosses.

Especially Smash Bros, which always solidifies that bosses will always remain bosses and never be playable under any circumstance.

I can appreciate a good argument, but as Mr Lange said, make sure you're not just repeating the same points already being made on prior pages.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Were they bosses that were king kong sized? of course not.

Charizard wasn't king kong sized when he was a pokeball in Smash Bros 64 :/

Where have i said anything negative about Ridley? Probably in your head.


I don't hate Ridley at all. I'm quite fond of him. Realistically, he doesn't have a chance though. He was in Smash Bros Brawl at the size the Smash Bros team wanted him to be.

Some are yeah. More than you think.

He was certainly bigger than Bowser in Melee. Now he's much smaller. He was resized.

Arguing against him isn't exactly positive when the topic of the thread is a support thread for his inclusion of a smash bros title.

Ridley changed size in Brawl three different times. They really don't care that much. Plus, he was small in Melee's opening which is the size the team wanted him to be. Weird...It's like their minds change all the time.

 

[DarkKry4]

Especially Smash Bros, which always solidifies that bosses will always remain bosses and never be playable under any circumstance.

I can appreciate a good argument, but as Mr Lange said, make sure you're not just repeating the same points already being made on prior pages.

Well i just posted one small personal opinion and then all of a sudden people want to gang up on me. I didn't do anything wrong.

Arguing against him isn't exactly positive when the topic of the thread is a support thread for his inclusion of a smash bros title.

Ridley changed size in Brawl three different times. They really don't care that much. Plus, he was small in Melee's opening which is the size the team wanted him to be. Weird...It's like their minds change all the time.

I don't see anything negative about adding a little realism in this thread. Its not like i'm saying Ridley sucks or anything.

There is a difference between an opening animation and an in-game model. The in-game model they made of Ridley in brawl was gigantic.

 

[IsmaR]

I didn't say you did anything wrong. And I sympathize more than anyone for people voicing their beliefs against Ridley in this thread (like I said, I love a good argument/debate). But you are going into character support threads stating logic that others aren't going to necessarily agree with/accept, let alone like/abide. It should be kind of expected that people will "gang up on you," which I thought would've been evident from your posts in the Krystal thread (most of which are good points, I may add. Coming from someone who supports her).

If anything this thread is for people who like Ridley as a character, the majority of whom would like to see him playable. The minority (mainly you and Mr Lange at this point) who like the character but don't see him being plausible as a fighter are the sole representatives for those who don't support him (and thus, more than likely don't post in a support thread). So you're basically getting the flak not only for having the minor opinion, but being spokesmen for all people who share similar thoughts. I do think both sides should lighten up, and not take things so personally.

 

[Oasis_S]

Don't be silly IsmaR, they probably had it coming. Asking for it, really. Probably wearing a short skirt with "TOO BIG" clearly visible printed on the ass of their panties.

 

[IsmaR]

I was about to go to sleep, but this thread drives me to fan art.

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm sorry Ismar. Come to think of it we could all probably use a pair of those panties. A Secret bond we all Share.