• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Teachy TV: Ivysaur Video and Critique Thread

Steel Kangaroo

Steel Kangaroo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
comicalflop said:
It's been a while since I last posted but looking to see if anyone notices improvement form my last video and what next steps to take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ISoj13qXaY
Click to expand...
Hey Boink! I'll give you some feedback. First off, you're looking a lot beter! I can tell you're practicing. I'm gonna go in depth with timestamps and everything bc that's what helps me the most when other ppl give me feedback.

0:15 Try not to challenge Falco on platforms by jumping from directly below. In this situation I would probably WD away from the platform towards center stage or throw a seedbomb, depending on how the falco had been playing. Jumping into him means you're gonna eat a dsmash or a dair. I think jumping up and using nair might have worked, but I think falco has a lot of moves that can interrupt it.

0:19 ok you just landed jab1 and jab 2, they're in front of you but on the far side of the platform. Razor leaf is really unsafe in this instance bc you're too close to them. I think you were in perfect fair or dtilt range, maybe even a dash grab or nair -> pivot grab. Throwing RL allowed them to shieldgrab you (note that if you grabbed after the RL, you would have grabbed them out of shield which would have worked too)

0:31 nice uair into seedbomb...I think you could have followed with another uair after the seedbomb

In general when falco's on ledge, you commit to really hard options like uair or seedbomb. This isn't a bad thing bc the payoff is great if they hit, but you should also try to mix in a nair (which if you space it correctly can cover the entire ledge) or a bair every once in a while to keep them from feeling safe on ledge.

Also dthrow sets up for a lot of things on Falco once he's at a bit higher percent (40-50), I don't see you go for many grabs. Ivy's grab sucks, but her throws are amazing, so you need to be smart with your spacing and RL usage to get the grab. Against Falco, a legitimate tactic is to grab them and throw them off (usually bthrow) and then gimp them with back airs.

2:22 There are a lot of better options here than fsmash after you land with fair on shield. You want something that comes out quickly and will either wear down their shield and potentially shieldpoke or something that beats shield outright (grab). Ftilt, dtilt, jab1 -> grab, all potential options.

3:40 nice combo dude...I might have to steal that uthrow->usmash if they tech in place

4:05 your RL spacing still needs work. throwing it out in close range worked against this guy bc his only reaction was to shield, but there are a lot of options that can lead you punished for relying too heavy on RL, especially when you're spaced too close to your opponent.

4:56 that's ideal RL spacing. you're using it to cover his roll. either you gain center stage if he rolls left, or if he rolls right you catch him and get a grab. you were able to set up for the next RL -> grab bc the RL you threw at 4:56 was so good.

5:27 these edgeuarding situations are really all we have against falco. You gotta be able to cover all there options from offstage. Once Falco started his UpB from ledge height, there were really only 2 options. He's either gonna go straight to ledge, or he's gonna go above the ledge at an angle and fall to ledge. Personally the two best options for when you see this are 1) grab ledge, force him to go high and punish. tbh I think at 5:27 if you grabbed ledge, falco would be dead no matter what bc even if he went high, his UpB distance sucks. 2) throw out a bair that attempts to cover both options. For this, you wait on ledge until their UpB just starts, then throw out a bair. You chose this option but went too far offstage (i.e. used bair with forward momentum) If you had done a fadeback bair to where the little tippy tip of the bair would hit ledge, you wouldn't have gotten hit. You also might not have hit falco, but Ivy has a pretty easy time stuffing options when people are recovering from ledge. Edgeuarding spacies is like rock paper scissors or something, there's a lot of mental planning you have to do ahead of time but they really have a few options, and we have options to beat theirs. We can talk about this more if you're interested.

5:59 this is another 'must get' situation...at high level play you get 1 edgeguard or else falco gets back and 0-deaths you. At 5:57 it was ambiguous whether Falco would sideB or UpB so you need to position yourself close to ledge to cover both. You need to have an option that beats sideB (think how m2k uses marths jab to beat it in melee). Dsmash works pretty well for this purpose, although it's slow so the timing is weird but it sticks out over the stage and hits downwards. At this point, he goes for an UpB horizontally, which is like sideB but worse...gives you a lot of time to punish but its the same direction as the other option (sideB) that you were ready for. So at 5:57 I would have been right next to ledge mentally ready to throw out a dsmash to cover either sideB or UpB horizontal.

6:30-6:50 you're throwing out a lot of RL in neutral that aren't always well spaced. It caught TSG a lot but against a better player they would eventualy find ways to punish you. Try playing a few friendlies with Ivysaur where you don't use RL at all, instead using Ivy's awesome movement options (wavelands, dd, SH/FH fair -> waveland) to win neutral. This will let you really think about when you need RL and when you're just throwing it because 'why not?'.

6:58 I've noticed you always throw a move (either fair or dair) from ledge. There are a lot of other options Ivysaur has to get back on ledge. Fair is once of the best, don't get me wrong, but it's incredibly predictable and if bae catches u slippin, you're gonna get punished hard. I think Sothe has a post in this thread about options from ledge that's really helpful

So yeah to sum up:

-good move choices for the most part
-good combo game

focus on
-improving your movement options/winning neutral without RL
-edgeguarding spacies (and edgeguarding in general)

feel free to find me at SG and we can talk about some things in more depth
 
Steel Kangaroo

Steel Kangaroo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
Okay guys, got some videos that I'd love some help with analyzing. As usual, I got bodied on stream (lol) but IMO I was hapy with how I played, meaning there's some actual adjustments I need to make and not just "don't SD like a noob"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igOJINJorxo vs Numerics (ZSS)

Crazy weird matchup. Looking back, I think both of us don't want to approach and our projectiles aren't good enough to force an approach either. I got too impatient and instead of clanking blaster w RL and bair, tried to jump over them and ate a lot of punishes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TE0qrNpEk vs Ripple (D3)

first DeDeDe I've ever played, and definitely one of the best. Clearly Ivysaur has the advantage in the matchup and I don't think I was good enough at exploting D3's weaknesses and also I didn't know how to DI his throws. Ripple explained after the match that you DI his dthrow down and away (he said the bottom divots on the controller if that makes sense), but then fthrow is a DI mixup where if you are DIing dthrow optimally you are using bad fthrow DI. This definitely made the difference as he got some insane edge guards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1-g7PVPus vs Bees! (G&W)

Kind of upset at myself for losing this one. I honestly would love the most feedback on this match, as I see little windows where I could have gone for vine whip instead of seed bomb or whatever, but nothing major that I feel I was doing wrong. It's hard to camp GW at low percents because their dtilt/CC game is just SO good. This is one of my weaknesses in general, not knowing how to deal with someone CCing at 0% if I can't setup for a grab easily. I tried for a bair->ftilt and ftilt clanked with GW dtilt and then I ate another dtilt lol. Another issue I had with GW is the priority on his moves...fair has priority over nair and our fair so when GW is approaching with SHFFL fair->dtilt I'm not sure theres any option other than WD back. I think the real plan is until GW is at like 50% you have to play RL spam and wall out while trying to hold center stage...

Any tips guys? I think my neutral needs the most work so any constructive criticism would be awesome
 
Last edited:
-Sothe

-Sothe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
29
Against the Gdubs, you are doing some nice stuff, but there was not a single point at which I felt vine whip was correct in game 1. Instead, I think you wanted it off of down tilt, but you should go for a really quick uair sweetspot if you can (I think you could, but I might be wrong). When you feel like you're going to get offstage edgeguarded, move away before tethering, and don't just throw tether immediately. You can also throw fair at them to basically get them off you.

In neutral, f-tilt is basically your answer to CC spam, but I can imagine Gdubs' dtilt being a huge problem there. Instead of trying to retreat when Gdubs throws the SH bacon into dtilt approach, get right in there once he short hops, take where he lands, and throw jabs/ftilt/grab/dash attack in there immediately. Basically, try not to get cornered in neutral such that Gdubs can force you to take the bacon into dtilt approach.

I dunno, I think that this matchup would be difficult for me to play. I know it would force me to do perfect waveland shenanigans just to deal with that fair -> dtilt. Fullhop fair seems like it might be a reasonable solution to Gdubs approaches though, since putting it out first will automatically stuff Gdubs fair and bair approaches, and I don't think nair can come out in time, short hopped or full hopped.

Against ripple, for future reference, I noticed that at 110% or so, you did falling nair into uptilt. I think it's important to know that if the opponent does not CC nair with that hitbox that pops D3 up like you had, you can convert into a quick sweetspot uair. It's one of my personal favorite kill setups.

In general, to avoid edgeguards, you can bait your opponent off the ledge by going close, then retreat and get a maximum distance tether. Instead of trying to rush a reel in, you can swing under the stage and reel in from there, and it will generally be safer.

Your combo game is looking pretty nice, but the sweetspot uairs didn't happen sometimes. That's all I can come up to work on from that perspective. Oh, and sourspot uair is a really nice DI mixup mid combo, because you can send them right into solar beam range. :)

In neutral, if you need a better wall, fullhop fair into fastfall fair is really solid against characters like Gdubs, since if you can throw it out preemptively, you can stuff any attempts at jumping toward you. Essentially, this wall can force them to give up space.

I hope this helps!
 
Steel Kangaroo

Steel Kangaroo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
Yesss dude thank you this is what I was hoping for. I really value your feedback.

-Sothe said:
In neutral, f-tilt is basically your answer to CC spam, but I can imagine Gdubs' dtilt being a huge problem there. Instead of trying to retreat when Gdubs throws the SH bacon into dtilt approach, get right in there once he short hops, take where he lands, and throw jabs/ftilt/grab/dash attack in there immediately. Basically, try not to get cornered in neutral such that Gdubs can force you to take the bacon into dtilt approach.
Click to expand...
Okay this is the mixup I think I needed. Too often I felt I had to cede ground to GW just to avoid the dtilt combos, but you're right that there are times where he's vulnerable...you're saying covering his SH before he throws the bacon? Because the frying pan has a pretty nasty hitbox but I guess I will need to do some lab testing to see if jab/dash attack beats it. Really I just need to look at all of GWs moves in debug, the hitboxes are so unintuitive.

-Sothe said:
I dunno, I think that this matchup would be difficult for me to play. I know it would force me to do perfect waveland shenanigans just to deal with that fair -> dtilt. Fullhop fair seems like it might be a reasonable solution to Gdubs approaches though, since putting it out first will automatically stuff Gdubs fair and bair approaches, and I don't think nair can come out in time, short hopped or full hopped.
Click to expand...
Fair->dtilt is SO strong. I knew it was strong going in but with good spacing the dtilt can even cover our WD back even without GW actually crossing up our shield. Plus we're too slow to shieldgrab him before the dtilt comes out. I will try playing more reactive next time, this match happened at 10pm and I'd been at the venue playing matches/pools since 10am so my reaction speed wasn't on point. I think there's something to be said for his strength as a character for GW being able to be played a bit on 'autopilot' and still do so well.

I think you're hitting on something important, even in matches where we have to play 'defensive' and wall characters out, we really have to keep them honest and use some of the aggression Ivy is capable of when they give us an opening.


You mention fullhop double fair as an option for walling out...what other options do we have, especially against characters with strong CC options or characters that can punish us hard for being in the air (lookin at you Luigi)? Ftilt, RL, dtilt?

-Sothe said:
Against ripple, for future reference, I noticed that at 110% or so, you did falling nair into uptilt. I think it's important to know that if the opponent does not CC nair with that hitbox that pops D3 up like you had, you can convert into a quick sweetspot uair. It's one of my personal favorite kill setups.
Click to expand...
Yeah that does sound like a good option, probably easier to land than what I was trying for. I was trying to do a nair->usmash but I was pretty nervous...the necessity of winning "Ivy's easiest matchup" to upset a (clearly better) oos player got to me :D That being said, I definitely see why D3 is an easy MU for us, once the DI for his throws is on point and we don't hold on to the solar beam too long, he really has no options on us. It's important to clear the solar beam the first option we have (even if theres a chance it will miss) IMO because with no solar beam, he can't throw waddles at us, and he gains so much from waddles

Thanks again for the feedback
 
Last edited:
-Sothe

-Sothe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
29
The problem with stuff like standing grab versus that fair dtilt pressure string of G&W is that you have to time grab such that you start it before he actually lands, so that the grab box comes out when G&W is recovering from L cancel lag (which is hard). Grab comes to early, you whiffed a standing grab, and oh god does that hurt. If you do it too late, you just got d-tilted. The thing I want to do to a lot of Gdubs approaches is the preemptive roll into dash grab. It's probably the most unintuitive and stupid out of all of ivysaur's approaches, but against characters that have as much or more aerial dominance than ivy (most recently, a wario), I bring it out.

I've never had to play a good luigi, and frankly I don't know yet. Ftilt is my best guess, and being aggressive with that should put in some work. Luigi basically needs to wavedash away from razor leaf whenever you throw it, so that might be good for claiming space. Dtilt seems really horrible if you don't catch luigi early, since he will start holding down (stupid CC) somewhere in the wavedash as he prepares to Dsmash you. I don't think that luigi should actually be able to punish us for being in the air so long as we have a nice platform to go to (top platforms are GREAT in this matchup...I think). Frankly, I would be jumping up, trying to get luigi to follow me, because if you do the correct mixup (RAR fair comes to mind, but it's a funky mixup for weird matchups), you should be able to hit him with something disjointed. Just keep in mind that against luigi, your entire combo must be disjointed, unless you're able to get the most autocombo of tipper fair -> sweetspot uair combos on him.

I played in a pretty big tournament last saturday, and I wish the stream didn't die just as PM singles started. ;_; There was so much stuff I wanted to show off, but at least I won PM singles.
 
Steel Kangaroo

Steel Kangaroo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
-Sothe said:
The thing I want to do to a lot of Gdubs approaches is the preemptive roll into dash grab. It's probably the most unintuitive and stupid out of all of ivysaur's approaches, but against characters that have as much or more aerial dominance than ivy (most recently, a wario), I bring it out.
Click to expand...
Hmmm interesting...never thought about this before. Do you mean a roll behind them? I have to try that.

Against Luigi, they have a really good anti-air in usmash. It can kill at higher % and lead to crazy combos at lower %. It's not super quick or anything so yeah having platforms might be good in that MU. I usually find taking them to FD or DP to be good counterpicks but maybe BF is also nice...
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Plenty of good new replays from everybody :V

Papa? :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwAORhW-K78 vs XYK (Luigi) LF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTrwUPMpZH0 vs Prince Abu (Samus) WSF

Machiavelli :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a93rfSEA4k vs HF Neon (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeVwx9gKsOU vs Far (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02n2l-wXFo vs Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfUB_lfXZ5o vs Westballz (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLGvcLN0BtU vs iPunchKidsz (Lucario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X2Q5F3TMqU vs Bloodbank (Sheik)

Em:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTF-_zcDa6A vs Strong Bad (Roy)


Quick notes of things we've said about those on the skype group so far :
-daaaaamn did I sleep on Jiggs. I mean yeah it's Hbox playing her but still, I have genuinely no idea what would be the right decision, when there is one, in any of the situations Mach has had to play here.

-omfg Roy's dair is SO GOOD at edgeguarding Ivysaur. It's not even like other characters such as Sheik and Marth who can also send us back offstage without letting us touch the floor after an edgehog, even if we strafe forward, because in Roy's case, he doesn't even need to follow our trajectory. The front hitbox sets up a bair, the back hitbox is a semispike that'll kill you if you're above 30-40%.
I wonder though : would it be possible to aim for the sweetspot, get spiked on purpose and let that set up a tech chase situation instead ?
Another possible solution... Like, you know, when people manage to force us into the edgehog situation we all know and love, it's usually because they've found a way to make us waste all of our recovery options while we were trying to stop them from setting up that situation. So after they hit us and send us offstage again, we usually can't recover high, and are forced to spend the 2nd upB.
But if you could see it coming before wasting the dair bump, you could decide to let it happen, accept to get hit by whatever your opponent has, and only then spend the dair bump. If you DI well, that could let you recover high, in theory.

I need to get to lab that eventually.
 
Last edited:
I

it's Papa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
113
Location
Columbus, OH
Folks, if you're not in the Ivy skype group, add me: PapaSSBPM, and I'll put you in. Outside of this thread and the matchup thread it's where most of the discussion of this character goes on. @ -Sothe -Sothe you should def join.
 
-Sothe

-Sothe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
29
@ TreK TreK

Against hbox, mach seems to have never played against a good player using a character that has the aerial mobility to cross ivysaur up. In these kinds of matchups in which you actually don't have the aerial dominance, you HAVE to stay grounded and mobile with wavedashing. Your approaches should be uairs to anti-air, and generally anything that you can use to anti-air as ivy, such as bair, retreating fair, or otherwise. Mach played the matchup very wrong game one, but the matchup experience for jigglypuff in particular isn't there in PM, since no one is at Hbox's level with jiggly in PM.

Roy's dair is stupid good, I found this out at a recent tournament. >_>

@ I it's Papa

I like your playstyle, reminds me of my own quite often. :) I noticed against marth that you were forced by the threat of dolphin slash to roll up early, sacrificing the edgeguard. In that situation, you could retether to ledge in order to refresh invincibility frames. Marth has no real answer to this stall, except to up-b to stage, which can get punished pretty hard. I didn't watch any other matches you played, I don't have the time now, sorry!
 
I

it's Papa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
113
Location
Columbus, OH
Last edited:
I

it's Papa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
113
Location
Columbus, OH
I need serious Captain Falcon help. This is a set against the #2 player in my state, I would really love some constructive criticism. I'm very aware of my dumb rolling habits and flubbed ledgedashes from this set, so anything outside that would be great. How can I improve my neutral? When am I DIing wrong/right? When is it safe to grab falcon (never?)?

There are a couple moments of brilliance in this set, but many more moments of sheer stupidity.

vs. Fizzle :falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwqX0bJh1NU
 
Last edited:
Korudatsu

Korudatsu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Lancaster, PA
Ok so I'm pretty new to Ivy so take this with a grain of salt, but one thing I noticed was you were often doing unsafe things close and infront of falcon (you have vines, use them) For instance dash attack isn't really a safe option when falcon is just standing on the ground, and try going through his shield with nair so you will end behind him and he cant just shield grab you every time. If you want to jab pressure try not to be at point blank range either. Also short hop retreating fairs can challenge his nair approach, but dont get too comfortable with them since he would be able to dash closer before nairing next time.
 
I

it's Papa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
113
Location
Columbus, OH
The dash attacks were reads based on Fizzle's habits (we have played many times), not something I would generally do, but yeah. I think I only really got punished for one of them and got some good mileage out of them otherwise. My cross-ups were pretty sloppy, I really need to work on that. Jab pressure was not really working out great, especially since he was able to buffer spot dodge to escape jab1>grab, which I never really adjusted to during the set. Thanks.
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
So, yeah, here are a couple videos I haven't seen posted here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-EEVpfGsU JZ vs Lordy (Ike/CF)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj94vcmcx6Q Em vs Wonder (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3FA9QtcSvY Em vs Ruin (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSeMAw3kkfo TreK vs *Zen (Charizard)

I'll watch that stuff and edit if I see anything I want to talk about. If you guys feel like critiquing my Zen match I invite you to do so. I SDed a bunch (my guess is that I got screwed over by 16:9 but I could be wrong) and made a bunch of match-costing mistakes like wasting solar beams for no reasons, but other than that it's still a pretty good representation of how I play like atm imo, so if you see things I need to work on, well, I probably do need to work on them.
 
I

it's Papa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
113
Location
Columbus, OH
JZ vs Lordy **** yesssss.

Going to study this super hard for Shuffle this weekend.

I'm off work today and spending most of my free time prepping for this weekend. I'll probably check out your match vs. Zen and see if I can find anything to say about it.
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Not gonna lie I was underwhelmed by Lordy's Ike. He may be better than my local Ike as an Ike player in general, but his handle on the Ivy matchup is next to nonexistent.
I have a rival in my local scene who happens to play Ike and who actually knows the matchup, lol. I have 3 sets recorded against him, and 4 sets in total I believe. He won the first two times we played, I won the two after that. So those replays should show you what problems I have encountered and what solutions I found. Here they are, by chronological order :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_VtOUmxOPY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsKjx0_xxh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsClV8YDdNY

Oh and I have two more sets on Youtube. They pretty much amount to serious friendlies so if you want to critique them, go ahead. I was figuring out 3.5 GnW on the go lol, he's tough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byfwwRdB7Bc vs Satanpuuuu (Sonic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8CVEhA2T9c vs pr0GG (Mr.GnW)

Edit : more vidjos !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LONzHF0s6Zc Bobo vs Morks (C.Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBgrVlVbBLw Bobo vs What! (C.Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtYIWdaHsI JZ vs Dirtboi (Squirtle)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfNTFF0mak TreK vs Prof Pro (Snake)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsClV8YDdNY TreK vs Smash_Falco3 (Ike)
 
Last edited:
-Sothe

-Sothe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
29
I was also underwhelmed by his ike at roll tier V, and I was beating him in friendlies. He struck me as having matchup knowledge at the time though, which is odd considering how poorly he handled JZ. Also @ TreK TreK , your video of you facing prof pro isn't actually of you and prof, but simply misnamed as that.

@ I it's Papa I want you to show off ivysaur at Shuffle, you've definitely got what it takes to leave a mark!
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Oh thanks Sothe, turns out almost all videos uploaded yesterday by SYPG are misnamed... I'll edit when they're fixed : I took a quick look and it doesm't even seem that my matches made it to the youtube channel at all yet, even under another name

Rooting for you as well Papa !
 
Steel Kangaroo

Steel Kangaroo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
comicalflop said:
Got another match recorded I'd like input on, I felt really off point that night, it felt sometimes like I was having controller problems (hence the 'he must be napping' comment) and starting the night on stream against a Spacie had me full of nerves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt_4GCfwwAI
Click to expand...
Okay I'll give you some feedback.

0:17 okay once you get fox offstage, you want to use Ivy's good edgeguard game to covert to a kill, since onstage Fox pretty much destroys us. Here you should have opted for dtilt or fair

0:22 here fox is in a knockdown situation. You go for the dair to punish his getup attack, however notice that if he had rolled inwards you would have missed entirely, and personally I would have gone for fair instead of dair

0:25 your RL wasn't a bad idea, if he had used side-b it would have caught him. pay attention to spacies' recovery habits bc every person will have different habits. if you notice that he keeps using upB instead of sideB, you may opt to go for bair immediately rather than throwing leaf

0:26 I'm not a huge fan of this RL. I know what you were trying to do, pressure under the platform to keep him up there, but you were too close to fox for it to be effective. WD back -> RL would have been nice here, but at this range anticipating his jumping off the platform and stuffing w SH fair or something seems safer to me

0:46 when you land w invincibility, you have basically free pressure on your opponent. you opt to roll away, but instead you should be getting up in his face and pushing him closer to the edge

0:58 I disagree w NZA here, the seed bomb worked and I would have done the same. when fox is up there using his UpB though...you need to get to where hes gonna be and intercept with bair. At his high % it really didnt even matter which way you used the bair bc either way he'd be punshed off stage but if you took center stage right as he UpBs, you can bair him from center towards the right (assuming your taking center stage doesnt change his UpB direction)

Right after this exchange (1:01) you burn your double jump and dair over him. I don't think either of these things are great ideas to do against fox. Fox can juggle us pretty hard w uair so being right above him is dangerous, and using your double jump without good reason is never a good idea.

1:11 dsmash is what you were looking for here. you rolled away to try to get the correct spacing, but a WD would help your microspacing bc the roll sent you too far

The reason some of the punishes fox got on you were so potent is because you're half DIing away, half DIing towards him. This is a bad habit (one I have also)...we have a combo breaker nair, so why not DI towards him and break up his combos? It just doesn't work a lot of the time and can get you punished way harder than just DIing away. We get to ledge and get back for ledge for free (kinda), so it's always better to DI away and get back rather than take strong hits on stage.

2:05 okay so you keep going for RL, but he never side Bs. Eventually in a match you get to the point where you decide to read what option they use, rather than the best option they could use. So even though your RL would have totally gotten his sideB, he gets back because you didn't read correctly. For UpB (especially at pure horizontal) bair is your answer. Although fair and dsmash would both work in this case. The next few times you get him offstage, you go for RL even after you see his UpB which I just don't think works. RL is only really good at stopping fox sideB in this MU...at 2:55ish those dtilts should be dsmash and you'd have the stock.

A lot of your neutral wasn't coming together well which I'll chalk up to not playing on point but in general you want to fish for grabs and stuff their approach with SH fairs. This means playing much more reactively than you might in some other MUs. Being able to WD back consistently and threaten space with jabs and dtilts (not just tossing them out but being smart about when/where to use them) will keep fox from running in and pressuring you constantly.

6:05 this could be another bair. Getting RAR bair down pat lets you threaten with bair from different ranges and go from dtilt -> bair quickly

7:23 dsmash here instead of dtilt

Would have liked to see you fish for more bthrows when near the ledge and in general the edgeguarding can be improved a lot. If you hit every "must get" edgeguard, I think you would have won that game. Definitely improving though man. Hope it helps!
 
comicalflop

comicalflop

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
25
Location
Waltham, MA
Here's another vid for review. EV and I played like 20+ friendlies before this, and I could tell game 1 he was a bit flustered since he was making mistakes that I capitalized on, and I felt more in control. Game 2 was all him, and game 3 I decided to try Mario for the first time on stream (our last game of friendlies I started with Mario and he seemed to not know to deal with fireballs, and that game was cut short, so I went I made that character switch assuming he'd be unfamiliar with the matchup. Guess he wasn't lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyoB9NA6q10
 
Ark5712

Ark5712

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
39
Location
AL
I'm a Kirby and Ivysaur co-main, and was looking for some critique as to my Ivy play in this set. Though I really enjoy the Kirby ditto, I didn't feel like my Kirby was on point that day. Just wanted some opinions on what I did right/wrong, and what Kirby doesn't like while playing against Ivysaur. I've played the matchup form both sides, but want to hear some other people's opinions and criticisms. What am I doing wrong in these matches, and what am I doing right?

Thanks in advance <3
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom