Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[John12346]

Also double post, but this is a completely different subject. We should totally consider changing the subtitles of our primary threads to be all Wii Fit Trainer quotes, for flavor purposes. My thoughts would be:

Let's Work on Your Coordination - The WFT Video and Critique Thread
Let's Step Up the Intensity - Wii Fit Competitive Discussion and Advanced Techs
Now, Let's Try it Together - Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread
Now That Was a Great Workout! - Wii Fit Trainer's Tournament Results Thread
How About Some Deep Breathing? - General Discussion (that'd be this thread)
Exercise Every Day to Help Tone Your Body - The WFT Compendium, Index, and FAQ
Hold This Pose for 40 Seconds - Wii Fit Trainer's Frame Data
Feel the Stretch Through Your Arm and Leg - Wii Fit Trainer Hitbox Data

Well, maybe not, if it seems too silly, but what do you think?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I can do such changes (I absolutely love most of them), just waiting for more people to bring their opinion before pulling the trigger.

 

[Fancykong]

"Hold this pose for 40 seconds" for Frame Data makes me both laugh and cry at the same time. I really do like Extreme Yoga better for the advanced tech thread though.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That being said, that was great enough to warrant a couple Golden Stars in the OP, but a) John Numbers has no profile there, and b) I noticed the update destroyed my formatting

 

[⑨ball]

I can do such changes (I absolutely love most of them), just waiting for more people to bring their opinion before pulling the trigger.

I wouldn't mind. They all look pretty good to me.

 

[ぱみゅ]

And so, changes were made.
I still want to keep the flexibility (ha, get it? WFT? flex? ha?) over this this one thread's title, but the rest are really good to even think of changing them.

 

[Cress!]

I would like to remind everyone that Mini Smash is amazing because of the great voices it has. Maining a character that's super chatty just makes it all better.

I was spamming Smash attacks for more lines, but also the physics were really weird and I wasn't used to it at all. XP

 

[Robert Lee]

Anyone have tips as to how to fight sword characters (marth, lucina, ike, roy) that space well their short hop aerials. They are good at poking and walling out wii fit trainer especially since wii fit trainer approach are mediocre.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Anyone have tips as to how to fight sword characters (marth, lucina, ike, roy) that space well their short hop aerials. They are good at poking and walling out wii fit trainer especially since wii fit trainer approach are mediocre.

This is what we have projectiles for. Particularly Sun Salutation, as airborn enemies can't shield and it moves slow enough to catch air dodges if they are retreating. With all of the characters you mentioned, you have 2 projectiles to their none. You shouldn't have to go to them, they need to come to you. Also crouching can be helpful, since lowering your hurtbox forces them to commit more to their approaches to hit you with aerials, which int urns puts you in a prime position to punish.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Sun Salutation. Sun Salutation all day.
WFT's approaches are bad indeed, but if you don't approach then these swordfighters MUST do it, and WFT has a good set of projectiles to force them to while staying safe.

 

[Macchiato]

Sun Salutation. Sun Salutation all day.
WFT's approaches are bad indeed, but if you don't approach then these swordfighters MUST do it, and WFT has a good set of projectiles to force them to while staying safe.

Isn't spaced Nair safe now?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Not against Sword wielders (and without a read).
Marth/Lucina's entire grounded spacing tools and Nair outrange it, so I'm pretty sure Roy's do that as well, though I am not sure what Ike's landing/spacing tools are. So more often than not, just SS is way safer.

 

[Fancykong]

I would like to remind everyone that Mini Smash is amazing because of the great voices it has. Maining a character that's super chatty just makes it all better.

I was spamming Smash attacks for more lines, but also the physics were really weird and I wasn't used to it at all. XP

It sounds like Chip and Dale left their exercise videos on. And the knockback looked so awkward!

In other news, I joined a smash group on Facebook and got to play against an aggressively campy Olimar. I've never had to out lame somebody on purpose before today. It made my projectile usage feel dirty. I might upload later on.

 

[Erimir]

Olimar is one of my least favorite characters (in Brawl and Smash 4) because of that. Fighting him is frequently tedious.

 

[John12346]

Very nice with the title changes, very awesome! One issue, though, is that there's one grammar fix that should be enacted:

Now Let's Try it Together - Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread
and
Now, That Was a Great Workout! - Wii Fit Trainer's Tournament Results Thread

should be fixed to

Now, Let's Try it Together - Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread
and
Now That Was a Great Workout! - Wii Fit Trainer's Tournament Results Thread

Basically just the comma placement, is all. Simple nitpicking.
.
.
.
.
.
On another note, in tournament the other day, I was at ~160% and Sheik's Dthrow Uair STILL connected even though I DI'd properly and was mashing the crud out of jump. She had no rage but it was a fresh Dthrow and I WAS AT 160 FREAKING PERCENT COME ON

 

[Champ Gold]

Very nice with the title changes, very awesome! One issue, though, is that there's one grammar fix that should be enacted:

Now Let's Try it Together - Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread
and
Now, That Was a Great Workout! - Wii Fit Trainer's Tournament Results Thread

should be fixed to

Now, Let's Try it Together - Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread
and
Now That Was a Great Workout! - Wii Fit Trainer's Tournament Results Thread

Basically just the comma placement, is all. Simple nitpicking.
.
.
.
.
.
On another note, in tournament the other day, I was at ~160% and Sheik's Dthrow Uair STILL connected even though I DI'd properly and was mashing the crud out of jump. She had no rage but it was a fresh Dthrow and I WAS AT 160 FREAKING PERCENT COME ON

Because Sheik.

Just don't think about it. Sheik is just that damn stupid. Not as insane as Diddy in any form but just stupid

 

[Mark The Page]

Wii Fit Trainer's n-air is the most satisfying move to land in any Smash game. I get one fleeting thought about that slicing sound, those two hits, the 14% damage, the guaranteed follow-ups, and I have to boot up my 3DS.

The best combo is when you're falling above a grounded opponent. Jackknife -> land -> jumping Jackknife -> full double jumping Jackknife -> u-air has been my default combo for upwards of 50% damage guaranteed. Then you charge up SS on the way down and activate Deep Breathing while they come back.

But recently I've started trying to go for a Header spike instead of the u-air. Unless your opponent is at a high percent, it's still going to be a true combo (judging by the AI not being able to escape). Watch closely to see which side of you the opponent is on, and aim your Header in the opposite direction, firing right away. Worst case, the ball hits and you only did a bit less than the u-air finisher. Do it right and your opponent meteors down to the stage and, if they don't tech the landing, they come flying right back up in hitstun for combo link #5.

I just have way too much fun with the Header. Let me know if this works for anyone else.


PS: Did anyone know that you can grab out of charging SS!? I've been able to use this along with the windbox to halt an attacking opponent and then grab them after their hitbox is gone. Easier against aerials but I've pushed back a few dash attacks as well.

 

[Champ Gold]

I love Miss Fit's Dair spike.

The only move more satisfying is her header spike which I easily go 'Boomshakalaka'

 

[sam☆jam]

There is nothing more satisfying to me than landing jab > usmash. I know it's not necessarily her best option but it feels really satisfying to sweetspot it. Bonus points if she says "Tuck in those glutes!"

I'm really interested in Header's spike. We already know it's incredible for denying warp-type recoveries and is a nice followup for uthrow/nair chains, but I'd love if there were a simple way to use the spike on a buried opponent near the ledge. Do you guys think it'd be easier to time a reverse fair instead tho? idk

 

[John12346]

Almost, ぱみゅ you just gotta eliminate that comma from "Now, That Was a Great Workout!" and we're golden.

Also, as far as following up on burying opponents, I would heavily recommend against trying any fancy setups with aerials and spike attempts and the like. A competent masher can escape well into the 100%+ range if you try anything that isn't a tilt, so I would say to just take the Dtilt and enjoy that extra 11% damage, for sure.

At around 100% or higher I suppose you could try tagging their escape with a Usmash, or reverse Fair, or Header for that crazy kill, but even then I would still rather take the Dtilt and try to get them into Uthrow kill range instead. Even if you have enough time to catch their escape with something that could kill like that, you still have to worry about guessing when they actually will escape, and then you might fail in that case. On the same note, though, if you've gotten the opponent's damage high enough that you could've attempted that, then you only really need to get like one or two more hits after the guaranteed Dtilt to get them to the point where Uthrow will kill instead. Much more reliable, I'd say.

Once they reach ~150% you can start using aerials on them, no matter how hard they mash, and of course the optimal setup here would be first hit of Nair > Usmash/Uair for the kill.

 

[Exegguter]

After a bury:

- I usually ftilt below 30%

- dtilt till 120%

-fsmash after 120%

I'd rather go fore safe extra damage instead of not guaranteed setups that won't kill..

 

[Erimir]

This might just be because of FG people, but would you never use dsmash? I mean, it's a pretty good to strong kill move (depending on opponent's weight/recovery) after WFT's buffs and it hits all buried characters without requiring further setup, so I would figure at some point it's a good option.

Or is it just because of FG that at higher percents I can hit with it before my opponent mashes out?

 

[SteadyDisciple]

This might just be because of FG people, but would you never use dsmash? I mean, it's a pretty good to strong kill move (depending on opponent's weight/recovery) after WFT's buffs and it hits all buried characters without requiring further setup, so I would figure at some point it's a good option.

Or is it just because of FG that at higher percents I can hit with it before my opponent mashes out?

To my knowledge, the reason people do not advocate D-smash to follow up a bury is that there is just always a better option. If you were doing it for damage, D-tilt does the same 12% in 10 frames instead of 18 and can hit any grounded opponent, and there are plenty of options that do more damage. That really only leaves it's unusual KB angle as a reason to use it, but being buried reduced KB. With the exception of maybe, a handful of characters with horrible recoveries, if you are hitting them far enough out with D-smash to come remotely close to a kill, an F-smash or U-smash would likely have killed them outright as they pop up, and/or you should be close enough to the ledge to header spike them when they pop out for the kill, all of which come out faster.

Now with that said, FG lag can make reacting to pop out very difficult, at which point D-smash becomes more acceptable to avoid the timing issue altogether while still possibly being a kill move unlike D-tilt. Still, you'd be better off with F-smash's extra 3.5% damage 2 frames sooner most of the time unless you're against an opponent who F-smash will whiff (are there still characters that will happen to since the 1.1.1 patch?)

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I Have been using Mii Gunner for singles more and Wii Fit for dubs exclusively. I'll sometimes use Wii Fit In singles to cover odd bad match ups of Gunner, but I mostly use Mii Gunner over Wii Fit, since he's way more viable.

Sorry, I'm a sellout for using Mii Gunner now

 

[⑨ball]

I Have been using Mii Gunner for singles more and Wii Fit for dubs exclusively. I'll sometimes use Wii Fit In singles to cover odd bad match ups of Gunner, but I mostly use Mii Gunner over Wii Fit, since he's way more viable.

Sorry, I'm a sellout for using Mii Gunner now

That's interesting since I operated pretty opposite to this in usage and thought. Can't be mad at any Gunners though, he's super fun, and with the MLG ruleset likely effecting locals and such (very possibly for good too!), it's looking really good for him.

Gonna miss seeing your Fitness in tourney, but don't think I won't be rooting for you either way. Rock on Twerk.

 

[Lakuto]

I Have been using Mii Gunner for singles more and Wii Fit for dubs exclusively. I'll sometimes use Wii Fit In singles to cover odd bad match ups of Gunner, but I mostly use Mii Gunner over Wii Fit, since he's way more viable.

Sorry, I'm a sellout for using Mii Gunner now

So you use 1111 Mii Gunner? Is he viable?

To my knowledge, the reason people do not advocate D-smash to follow up a bury is that there is just always a better option. If you were doing it for damage, D-tilt does the same 12% in 10 frames instead of 18 and can hit any grounded opponent, and there are plenty of options that do more damage. That really only leaves it's unusual KB angle as a reason to use it, but being buried reduced KB. With the exception of maybe, a handful of characters with horrible recoveries, if you are hitting them far enough out with D-smash to come remotely close to a kill, an F-smash or U-smash would likely have killed them outright as they pop up, and/or you should be close enough to the ledge to header spike them when they pop out for the kill, all of which come out faster.

Now with that said, FG lag can make reacting to pop out very difficult, at which point D-smash becomes more acceptable to avoid the timing issue altogether while still possibly being a kill move unlike D-tilt. Still, you'd be better off with F-smash's extra 3.5% damage 2 frames sooner most of the time unless you're against an opponent who F-smash will whiff (are there still characters that will happen to since the 1.1.1 patch?)

After a bury, to get the pop off UpSmash, I had the idea to header cancel then UpSmash the ball to extend the hitbox duration. I don't know of how much though. It's not consistent but it gets some stylish points for sure.

 

[⑨ball]

So you use 1111 Mii Gunner? Is he viable?
[...]
After a bury, to get the pop off UpSmash, I had the idea to header cancel then UpSmash the ball to extend the hitbox duration. I don't know of how much though. It's not consistent but it gets some stylish points for sure.

I think he means full customs Gunner actually. MLG recently decided on Free Miis and Palutena so as per usual, most regions will follow suit.

Header extending would definitely work,(though you're likely to get the 15% sourspot) but would probably never work against a competent player.

Best options for grounding imo always come down to conditioning and positioning. I always recommend starting with regrounding with jab to condition not mashing, nair>usmash when they don't, ftilt for those moments in between.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think he means full customs Gunner actually. MLG recently decided on Free Miis and Palutena so as per usual, most regions will follow suit.

Header extending would definitely work,(though you're likely to get the 15% sourspot) but would probably never work against a competent player.

Best options for grounding imo always come down to conditioning and positioning. I always recommend starting with regrounding with jab to condition not mashing, nair>usmash when they don't, ftilt for those moments in between.

Wait one second, when was Palutena freed? I thought the rules said only the Mii Fighters can use all of their specials.

 

[Lakuto]

MLG is gonna be so hype with free Palutena! Can't wait!

Elite Gaymer, are you going to MLG too?

 

[Robert Lee]

This is what we have projectiles for. Particularly Sun Salutation, as airborn enemies can't shield and it moves slow enough to catch air dodges if they are retreating. With all of the characters you mentioned, you have 2 projectiles to their none. You shouldn't have to go to them, they need to come to you. Also crouching can be helpful, since lowering your hurtbox forces them to commit more to their approaches to hit you with aerials, which int urns puts you in a prime position to punish.

True. It just that this player I play with complains about wii fit trainer being campy and defensive and all I do is hang on the ledge with the soccer ball. After trying to play aggressive, it didn't work out too well for me. I just wanna see if there better ways to play her against these matchups, that's all.

 

[⑨ball]

Wait one second, when was Palutena freed? I thought the rules said only the Mii Fighters can use all of their specials.

My mistake. I saw a couple TOs talking about their rule changes on twitter and thought it was to match MLG. Seems Palutena's not for some reason.

 

[Lakuto]

My mistake. I saw a couple TOs talking about their rule changes on twitter and thought it was to match MLG. Seems Palutena's not for some reason.

Welp, RIP Palutena. It kinda makes more sense but I wanted to believe...

 

[SteadyDisciple]

True. It just that this player I play with complains about wii fit trainer being campy and defensive and all I do is hang on the ledge with the soccer ball. After trying to play aggressive, it didn't work out too well for me. I just wanna see if there better ways to play her against these matchups, that's all.

Honestly, this seems more like your friend's issue then. Wii Fit Trainer seems campy and defensive because, well, she kinda is. Approaching (while possible) really isn't her strong suit, and she has the projectiles to make others come to her instead. If you're dead set on playing more aggressive, though, I'd suggest one of the following 3 tactics

#1: Use uncharged SS. Like, almost constantly. The little pokes make for a good zoning tool and help keep pressure on. Header should be used in a similar fashion if your opponent is further away. Doing this allows you to utilize your greatest advantage in these matchups without being super defensive.

#2: Charge SS, and hang onto that charge for dear life. Having it charged and ready can be a great punish tool, and the threat of it may still be enough to dissuade your friend from using some of his options. Do throw it out from time to time, but really only when the hit is guaranteed, and he/she should learn pretty quickly not to forget it. Alternatively, it WILL be forgotten, and you'll get a large number of free hits with it.

#3: Play a different character. No, seriously. If you're friend is mad about you playing a character as well as you can, and you value playing with that person and them having fun more than either of your improvements, play a different character. Either you'll find one you like and they don't mind, or you'll get someone like Link/Toon Link/Samus/Duck Hunt/Bowser Jr./Villager who have arguably even more obnoxious camping games and they will learn to be careful what they wish for.

 

[ぱみゅ]

For what is worth, I'll have a tournament this sunday, and Palutena will be able to be customized.

 

[⑨ball]

For what is worth, I'll have a tournament this sunday, and Palutena will be able to be customized.

(':

I'd like to see more TOs doing this if logistics is really the only reason customs are banned.

 

[Exegguter]

Does anyone know if the ''let's stretch our legs'' taunt has a smaller hitbox than crouch? I know it dodges Zard's flare blitz for example lol.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

To my knowledge, it is not as low as crouch, but it might be lower than crawl or the idling crouch.

 

[Robert Lee]

Honestly, this seems more like your friend's issue then. Wii Fit Trainer seems campy and defensive because, well, she kinda is. Approaching (while possible) really isn't her strong suit, and she has the projectiles to make others come to her instead. If you're dead set on playing more aggressive, though, I'd suggest one of the following 3 tactics

#1: Use uncharged SS. Like, almost constantly. The little pokes make for a good zoning tool and help keep pressure on. Header should be used in a similar fashion if your opponent is further away. Doing this allows you to utilize your greatest advantage in these matchups without being super defensive.

#2: Charge SS, and hang onto that charge for dear life. Having it charged and ready can be a great punish tool, and the threat of it may still be enough to dissuade your friend from using some of his options. Do throw it out from time to time, but really only when the hit is guaranteed, and he/she should learn pretty quickly not to forget it. Alternatively, it WILL be forgotten, and you'll get a large number of free hits with it.

#3: Play a different character. No, seriously. If you're friend is mad about you playing a character as well as you can, and you value playing with that person and them having fun more than either of your improvements, play a different character. Either you'll find one you like and they don't mind, or you'll get someone like Link/Toon Link/Samus/Duck Hunt/Bowser Jr./Villager who have arguably even more obnoxious camping games and they will learn to be careful what they wish for.

Thanks man. I play palutena and he did win some battles, but I had fun. He seem to play more confident now. Any tricks for edgeguarding those sword characters?

 

[Lord_Espurr]

Try jumping off the stage and charging SS right in their face. The wind box will stop their momentum until they hit you out of it. This only will gimp them if they're going to just be able to make it back though, it's just free damage for them otherwise. Alternatively, for people who have a hard time sweet spotting the ledge ( Marth, Shulk, Meta Knight), you could try to shield their up b and use SS to push them away from the ledge as they fall.

 

[⑨ball]

Currently doing some experimentation into hitlag traps using header. Really interesting stuff.