TLMSheikant
Smash Master
That's a great find, Fox! I just tried it and found jump back->bomb throw->down air recatch->A+up->bomb throw up bomb cancel might be a true lulzy combo.
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So could someone test if this also means we can use it to get out of e.g. U-tilt combos by cancelling the lag and throwing the bomb down? Or can you only throw the bomb in any direction when cancelling landing lag?
It also means that we can cancel our laggy new Bair with a throw that goes in the right direction now. Bair is viable again?
Not to mention the fact that regardless of what aerial we use and whether it hits or not, we have the ability to throw the bomb where the opponent actually is/where they are going to be rather than just straight forward, which really will have a huge practical application in a real game situation.
It also means that we can cancel our laggy new Bair with a throw that goes in the right direction now. Bair is viable again?
Not to mention the fact that regardless of what aerial we use and whether it hits or not, we have the ability to throw the bomb where the opponent actually is/where they are going to be rather than just straight forward, which really will have a huge practical application in a real game situation.
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TLMSheikant
Smash Master
It only seems to work with landing cancel. I don't think I can properly test it in a 3DS though because you have to tumble cancel and hold direction+A which is super awkward in the 3DS.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
When playing on for glory today I somehow did a BLC out of hitstun and threw the bomb behind me instead and I didn't know how I did it. i'll test it out fox!
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Right now I'm finding this way too difficult to pull off even with slower speeds. I can consistently throw the bomb down but there is almost little to no time to move the circle pad to another direction to throw the bomb. I'd say this is even more difficult than IZAC.
CURRY
Smash Journeyman
Apparently, b-reversals and turnaround Bs are both in the game, right?
Have you tried doing both..?
So like, slamming the circle pad in the opposite direction both before or after you throw the bomb?
If what Fox speculates about the bair is true, then I could see a lot of our aerial + quickdraw things in Brawl being replaced by bomb cancels.
You would need a bomb already in hand beforehand though, which could really limit the spaminess of those moves.
This was super cool:
Reverse Quickdraw
How to Perform: Jump, Hit B just before you land and Instantly Hit Backwards
Effect: Toon will Jump then perform a quickdraw the opposite way he was facing originally.
Note: This can be done in any situation that you could normally quickdraw; it all depends on where your opponent is. For example you might want to do this move after hitting an opponent with Bair or the second hit of Nair. This could also come in handy when you're running away from your opponent and you do a SH Bomb Pull then you can Reverse Quickdraw to shoot an arrow back at them.
Stages: All
Usefulness: 9/10
In Brawl, I usually did bair -> diagonally downwards -> neutral B, so that I did a turnaround B instead of a B-reverse, which literally makes no difference in aerial movement because... you're on the ground already.
So yeah, could you try maybe an aerial by doing a diagonal input on the circle pad?
Wait, okay, I just read Fox's comment about the direction + A -->> down B.
Do the wavebounces and whatnot only work with neutral B this time around? That seems kinda... stupid...
Have you tried doing both..?
So like, slamming the circle pad in the opposite direction both before or after you throw the bomb?
If what Fox speculates about the bair is true, then I could see a lot of our aerial + quickdraw things in Brawl being replaced by bomb cancels.
You would need a bomb already in hand beforehand though, which could really limit the spaminess of those moves.
This was super cool:
Reverse Quickdraw
How to Perform: Jump, Hit B just before you land and Instantly Hit Backwards
Effect: Toon will Jump then perform a quickdraw the opposite way he was facing originally.
Note: This can be done in any situation that you could normally quickdraw; it all depends on where your opponent is. For example you might want to do this move after hitting an opponent with Bair or the second hit of Nair. This could also come in handy when you're running away from your opponent and you do a SH Bomb Pull then you can Reverse Quickdraw to shoot an arrow back at them.
Stages: All
Usefulness: 9/10
In Brawl, I usually did bair -> diagonally downwards -> neutral B, so that I did a turnaround B instead of a B-reverse, which literally makes no difference in aerial movement because... you're on the ground already.
So yeah, could you try maybe an aerial by doing a diagonal input on the circle pad?
Wait, okay, I just read Fox's comment about the direction + A -->> down B.
Do the wavebounces and whatnot only work with neutral B this time around? That seems kinda... stupid...
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Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
This is so confusing now my brain... Yes, BLC is literally the opposite ans replacement of quickdraw in this game. Doing IZAC bair BLC backwards is similar to our old bair > reverse quickdraw or (bcat) which was super useful.
Personally, I'm thinking this is all too complex to perform on a 3DS. even IZAC'a a pain to work.
If you jump and press r to quick, you jc throw.
If you jump and press r too late, you'll zair bomb drop
If you hold r when z-dropping tetherless, you can't nair or do any ariel on the bomb and miss the catch
On a gc controller the z button won't be such an arse to tap. Tapping r and pressing A on a 3DS is much more challenging and difficult than it sounds. I was able to do IZAC about 80% of the time in smash 4 and now I'm struggling again only getting it about 20% of the time now and it's really frustrating.
As for reverse BLC or whatever we're calling this. It's too much hassle in some directions. Nair, fair, dair And zair reversed BLC are easiest to perform. However setting up bair reverese blc's are really conveluted and difficult to use just now.
i dunoo, a lot of these discoverd techs are really wired down to the frame and performing frame perfect or 3 frame window techs is insanely dififcult. Not even spedrunners do frame perfect tricks in 60fps games without pause buffering. In brawl I can IZAC 100% of the time which no other Tink main considered useful cause of difficulty. Unlike smash 4, brawls IZAC isn't frame perfect and is simpler to perform.
These techs on smash 4 just aren't 100% reliable on a 3DS sadly. Thanks to this crappy new zair bomb drop sh** sakurai added.
Edit: Ok, I'm going to give my full opinion on IZAC and this Multi-direction BLC AT.
FIRSTLY, IZAC is a lot more difficult to perform in smash 4. If your somewhat consistent at it on 3DS I can say it has it's uses especially followed up with BLC, trying to add multi direction BLC however makes the trick become one of the hardest to perform techs in Smash 4 and Brawl put together. It's got too many specific thing to each tool and conjoining the techs together is a hassle and almost impossible in tourney situation.
BFO is where we should make use of milti-direction BLC. IT's more simpler, requires less input memory and won't take up space in your mind when trying to do more important stuff like readin your opponent. BFO bair to multi-directional BLC (backwards) is very viable just as BFO nair BLC is. I reocmmend this to be learnt mostly for bair and throwing bombs backwards after zairs, airdodges and other ariels you find fitting. Learning to do ariels and multi-directional BLC (upwards) is a little finnicky to perfom but maybe you can get the hang of it. Ariels that seem to have opposite directions in their BLC are the most difficult to pull off. Like down air to BLC upwards throw.
Once the Wii U version comes out I will consider looking in to conjoining IZAC Bair, nair and fair and multi-directional BLC. Gamecube controllers make button tapping and analogue input much more precise and easier. However if IZAC is still too harsh on performing I'd say forget learning to merge the two techs together and keep em separate, this isn't to say that they are useless together. But require too much brain processing and very precise frame perfect timing. The hand memory behind it on a 3DS is also quite difficult. Usually when we find techs I can go straight in to training mode and perform new things super easily new or old. However with IZAC + multi-directional BLC I personally get confused processing the inputs, you might not and if not then you must have a really complex brain or really good muscle memory because this tech requires insanely good hand eye coordination.
In conclusion, keep the, separate just now until gamecube controllers are out. I'm certain 3DS toon link is gonna miss out on a lot of techs just cause the gamecube controller isn't trash.
Personally, I'm thinking this is all too complex to perform on a 3DS. even IZAC'a a pain to work.
If you jump and press r to quick, you jc throw.
If you jump and press r too late, you'll zair bomb drop
If you hold r when z-dropping tetherless, you can't nair or do any ariel on the bomb and miss the catch
On a gc controller the z button won't be such an arse to tap. Tapping r and pressing A on a 3DS is much more challenging and difficult than it sounds. I was able to do IZAC about 80% of the time in smash 4 and now I'm struggling again only getting it about 20% of the time now and it's really frustrating.
As for reverse BLC or whatever we're calling this. It's too much hassle in some directions. Nair, fair, dair And zair reversed BLC are easiest to perform. However setting up bair reverese blc's are really conveluted and difficult to use just now.
i dunoo, a lot of these discoverd techs are really wired down to the frame and performing frame perfect or 3 frame window techs is insanely dififcult. Not even spedrunners do frame perfect tricks in 60fps games without pause buffering. In brawl I can IZAC 100% of the time which no other Tink main considered useful cause of difficulty. Unlike smash 4, brawls IZAC isn't frame perfect and is simpler to perform.
These techs on smash 4 just aren't 100% reliable on a 3DS sadly. Thanks to this crappy new zair bomb drop sh** sakurai added.
Edit: Ok, I'm going to give my full opinion on IZAC and this Multi-direction BLC AT.
FIRSTLY, IZAC is a lot more difficult to perform in smash 4. If your somewhat consistent at it on 3DS I can say it has it's uses especially followed up with BLC, trying to add multi direction BLC however makes the trick become one of the hardest to perform techs in Smash 4 and Brawl put together. It's got too many specific thing to each tool and conjoining the techs together is a hassle and almost impossible in tourney situation.
BFO is where we should make use of milti-direction BLC. IT's more simpler, requires less input memory and won't take up space in your mind when trying to do more important stuff like readin your opponent. BFO bair to multi-directional BLC (backwards) is very viable just as BFO nair BLC is. I reocmmend this to be learnt mostly for bair and throwing bombs backwards after zairs, airdodges and other ariels you find fitting. Learning to do ariels and multi-directional BLC (upwards) is a little finnicky to perfom but maybe you can get the hang of it. Ariels that seem to have opposite directions in their BLC are the most difficult to pull off. Like down air to BLC upwards throw.
Once the Wii U version comes out I will consider looking in to conjoining IZAC Bair, nair and fair and multi-directional BLC. Gamecube controllers make button tapping and analogue input much more precise and easier. However if IZAC is still too harsh on performing I'd say forget learning to merge the two techs together and keep em separate, this isn't to say that they are useless together. But require too much brain processing and very precise frame perfect timing. The hand memory behind it on a 3DS is also quite difficult. Usually when we find techs I can go straight in to training mode and perform new things super easily new or old. However with IZAC + multi-directional BLC I personally get confused processing the inputs, you might not and if not then you must have a really complex brain or really good muscle memory because this tech requires insanely good hand eye coordination.
In conclusion, keep the, separate just now until gamecube controllers are out. I'm certain 3DS toon link is gonna miss out on a lot of techs just cause the gamecube controller isn't trash.
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Yeah I said it in the post that started all this where I was quoting the guy from the peach boards (on the previous page). I think that having a c-stick combined with a slight change in control scheme will greatly help performing the multi-direction BLC. (I'm fine with that name btw.) I don't know about you guys, but my plan was to make the 'R' button on the GC controller 'special' instead of 'shield'. I never used it for shield anyway. That way, performing this tech will be as simple as using the c-stick to choose where I want to throw the bomb and then almost at the same time using the joystick and the 'R' button to input 'down-B'. Correct me if my assumptions are wrong, but this would work yeah? It sounds simple enough to me.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
I'll have a go at testing special on R. I usually put jump on R for GC for OoS Up B but it's rarely ever used.
Edit: this seriously needs a c-stick. I'm praying c-stick can allow us to throw the bomb in any direction. It's probably going to be just as weird though. Buffering the direction on the c-stick then pressing down B or R or whatever you think works best. Hmm....
Edit: this seriously needs a c-stick. I'm praying c-stick can allow us to throw the bomb in any direction. It's probably going to be just as weird though. Buffering the direction on the c-stick then pressing down B or R or whatever you think works best. Hmm....
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CURRY
Smash Journeyman
... Side note, is the term "turnaround B" ever used? I've only really heard "b-reverse" and "wavebounce", but never "turnaround B".
This comment says that that's the official name of turning around a special move without changing momentum, though.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-lab-info-dump.353758/#post-11200571
Also... are we still able to b-reverse/turnaround-b with down special? >.>
This comment says that that's the official name of turning around a special move without changing momentum, though.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-lab-info-dump.353758/#post-11200571
Also... are we still able to b-reverse/turnaround-b with down special? >.>
We were never able to b-reverse or 'turn around b' or wavebounce Bomb Pull. All specials are special, but some specials are more special than others.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Tested iZAC in training 1/4 and it is stupidly frame perfect. I don't think i'll be able to do it on 3DS. After a bit of practice I am now BLC'ing up. Still trying to BLC back but it'll be ridiculously tough until we have the c-stick.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
I find Multi-directional BLC back to be the easiest a long with down. It's definitely worth going for since people can catch on rolling behind your Bomb Zairs is good. Luckily we have a turnaround BLC now though 
And yeah IZAC Is a pain in this game. It was 100x easier compared to what it was in brawl. I'm almost surprised no Toon Link main in brawl properly learned it but once you try it on brawl after playing smash 4 it's like easier than pulling off a simple BLC.
Zan helped me and gave me a few tips and it helped. 2/3 is definitely not recommended to practice on. It's too choppy. 1/2 is best.
I seem to pull it off in matches when I'm not thinking about it too much in stuff like For Glory matches. Also gonna join Nintendodojo and try out their ladder and see how all this works in some real strong matches.
And yeah IZAC Is a pain in this game. It was 100x easier compared to what it was in brawl. I'm almost surprised no Toon Link main in brawl properly learned it but once you try it on brawl after playing smash 4 it's like easier than pulling off a simple BLC.
Zan helped me and gave me a few tips and it helped. 2/3 is definitely not recommended to practice on. It's too choppy. 1/2 is best.
I seem to pull it off in matches when I'm not thinking about it too much in stuff like For Glory matches. Also gonna join Nintendodojo and try out their ladder and see how all this works in some real strong matches.
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Gamecube
Smash Cadet
Toon Link is cool...
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
lijero13ss
Banned via Warnings
Oh man i think i missed this, how do we do that??I find Multi-directional BLC back to be the easiest a long with down. It's definitely worth going for since people can catch on rolling behind your Bomb Zairs is good. Luckily we have a turnaround BLC now though
.
CURRY
Smash Journeyman
OH GOD NOOO!!!!
PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME BLC STILL WORKS!!!
http://smashboards.com/threads/rush...nerfs-ive-found-as-well.375268/#post-17862491
Edit: ok never mind. It was a false alarm. I almost died.
Still, can anyone confirm if there were any changes to Toon Link in the update?
PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME BLC STILL WORKS!!!
http://smashboards.com/threads/rush...nerfs-ive-found-as-well.375268/#post-17862491
Edit: ok never mind. It was a false alarm. I almost died.
Still, can anyone confirm if there were any changes to Toon Link in the update?
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Mota
"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
What kind of age do we live in when patch updates don't come with patch notes. smh surprise ridley challenger inc
D
Deleted member
Guest
If someone could get the damage % TL's moves do now that would help a lot in seeing if TL was changed at all. I haven't updated yet, so I can check to see if any changes anyone thinks they've found are still in the game from before the update or not.
CURRY
Smash Journeyman
I honestly think that BLC was intentional by Sakurai.
Something THAT game-breaking couldn't have been missed.
Although there WAS that Fan lock in Brawl... >.>
Sorry for bringing up Brawl in a Smash 4 thread, but a quick question, were we able to DI out of fan in Brawl?
Probably only at high percentages?
I never knew, because I haven't turned items on in such a long time.. o.o
Something THAT game-breaking couldn't have been missed.
Although there WAS that Fan lock in Brawl... >.>
Sorry for bringing up Brawl in a Smash 4 thread, but a quick question, were we able to DI out of fan in Brawl?
Probably only at high percentages?
I never knew, because I haven't turned items on in such a long time.. o.o
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TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Jab = 3, 2, 4 unchanged total 9%
Ftilt = 9% unchanged
Dtilt = 7% unchanged
Utilt = 5% unchanged
Upsmash = 13% no charge, unchanged
Fsmash = 10, 11% no charge, 21% total, unchanged
Dsmash = 6, 7% no charge, 13% total, unchanged
Zair = 4%
Nair = 8, 7% unchanged
Fair = 13% unchanged
Bair = 11% unchanged
Dair = 16% spike, 12% not spike unchanged
Upair = 14% when it comes out, 11% lingering hitbox, unchanged
Bomb = 4% forward/up/down throw, 7% ground explosion hit unchanged
Boomerang = 8% point blank, 5% normal hit, 3% return unchanged
Arrows = 4-12% unchanged
Upb Grounded = 12% no charge
Aerial upb = 14% all hits connect
All throws = 7% still
Pummel = 2%
Fire Arrows = 2-7% direct hit, 6% ground hitbox
Piercing Arrows = 1-6% still
Fast Boomerang = 3% first hit, 1% return
Floating Boomerang = 4%
Grounded Flying Spin Attack = 14% no charge
Air Flying Spin Attack all hits = 14%
Grounded Sliding Spin Attack = 10% no charge
Air Sliding Spin Attack = 10% all hits
Time Bomb = 1% still
Short-Fuse Bomb = 10% bomb explodes because it connected, 12% smoke hit, 14% down throw
Yeah i don't think TL has changed at all. Everything is the same and I can confirm all the ATs are still in.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Those are the same exact percentages I got on my un-updated version, so yeah, it looks like you're right. Darn, I was hoping he'd been buffed.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I wish they'd buff Bair and made it like brawl lol. I'm honestly hoping more that he doesn't get Bomb Lag Cancel removed than for buffs though.
Real talk, if they ever remove BLC, that's a deal breaker for me right there. Like I will just straight up not play this character.
Mota
"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
Even with the BLC I'm still kinda iffy. I just can't be arsed learning a new character
Yes, I'm worried about them removing any ATs and not only when it comes to TL even though it is my main worry since TL is my main...for now.
Other than that, you all awesome, just read this whole thread, and it was completely worth it. I feel like my TL leveled up already. Shouldve liked posts though. Which I will later. maybe.
Other than that, you all awesome, just read this whole thread, and it was completely worth it. I feel like my TL leveled up already. Shouldve liked posts though. Which I will later. maybe.
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This was kind of interesting, even though it's on a presumably banned stage. http://smashboards.com/threads/link-at-on-junglejapes-tether-cancel.375613/#post-17876503
I read it and was like, wait, Link slides backwards?? You sure? Because that would genuinely surprise me and would make it a decent tech over all, you know, if it weren't for the stage it was used on.
Also, could someone do me a favour a tell him that the term 'tether cancel' is already taken. (assuming that you can still hit down to cancel tether in smash 4) I'm sick of being that guy.
Edit: thanks to whoever told him. Apparently it doesn't work for anyone else but Link. (Confirmation?) Oh well.
I read it and was like, wait, Link slides backwards?? You sure? Because that would genuinely surprise me and would make it a decent tech over all, you know, if it weren't for the stage it was used on.
Also, could someone do me a favour a tell him that the term 'tether cancel' is already taken. (assuming that you can still hit down to cancel tether in smash 4) I'm sick of being that guy.
Edit: thanks to whoever told him. Apparently it doesn't work for anyone else but Link. (Confirmation?) Oh well.
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Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
No we can't but tethering and dipping in to the river makes us swing like a monkey and land on the stage with a slide which looks pretty cool. And JJ is actually a CP on some places like NintendoDojo
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Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Oh and we can teleport doing this with tether cancel WHAT THE HELL. I Just flew left to right to left doing this o.oNo we can't but tethering and dipping in to the river makes us swing like a money and land on the stage with a slide which looks pretty cool. And JJ is actually a CP on some places like NintendoDojo
HullabalooFTW
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 12
Hi guys! So I was just playing a for glory match having fun with Tlink and uh this happened? xD After doing this Ive actually managed to use it punishing recoveries lately, like Ganon in the video.
http://youtu.be/Fp1ax2itz4M
Anyways time to read what I've missed these last few weeks on new things you guys have learned about Tlink!
http://youtu.be/Fp1ax2itz4M
Anyways time to read what I've missed these last few weeks on new things you guys have learned about Tlink!
"It is known."
deech
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 39
Could you enlighten me on how to replicate it?
I'm not talking about RAR arrow. I slid on the ground o_o
Well judging by what you're describing, I thought you were referring to doing a 'special reversal' on the ground using momentum from a dash. In Brawl this would have resulted in a minor slide. It is possible that in smash 4 this slide is bigger, but I have no way of testing to confirm for you. Of course, I may have been thrown off entirely by the description.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
I'll have a quick test at this.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Haven't really noticed any difference from brawls grounded reverse-B.
Unless this is something different?
Unless this is something different?
Yeah it's probably something different then. Hey Deech, explain yourself XD. Details. We'll figure it out eventually.
Details as in:
What button presses were trying to do?
What do you think you could have accidentally pressed?
What exactly did Toon do? (step by step, don't leave anything out)
How far did you slide? In what direction?
What stage were you on? (I swear, if you were just on an ice stage or something slippery... XD)
You mentioned the fact that you wanted to do an aerial boomerang. Does this mean you pressed jump at some point but you didn't end up jumping?
Details as in:
What button presses were trying to do?
What do you think you could have accidentally pressed?
What exactly did Toon do? (step by step, don't leave anything out)
How far did you slide? In what direction?
What stage were you on? (I swear, if you were just on an ice stage or something slippery... XD)
You mentioned the fact that you wanted to do an aerial boomerang. Does this mean you pressed jump at some point but you didn't end up jumping?
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TLMSheikant
Smash Master
It's just that Tink slides more with b reverse arrows now. It's very noticeable.
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... ok so it's just what I said originally. Thanks for the confirmation.
That's still a legitimate find mind you. We should make a note of that.
That's still a legitimate find mind you. We should make a note of that.
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