U-Air Is Pretty Good Isn't it?

[CommanderRin]

Wondering how many people know/use U-Air combos (strings?) in their gameplay!

At low percentages, I've been able to do:

U-Air -> U-Tilt (Most reliable)
U-Air -> Sword Dance (Really Low Percentages, use the "UP" variant)
U-Air -> D-Tilt (It seems to work on heavy characters, though not as reliable as the first two)

and I assume that we can:

U-Air -> Jab
U-Air -> Dolphin Slash


Yeah, the U-Air is pretty nifty, since it has virtually no lag when you land.
I typically zone/space with F-Air, and when there is a visible opening, I fast-fall -> U-Air
You can also:
Jump -> Instantly Air Dodge -> U-Air

I'm confident this has been at least brought up once or twice, as it really helps Lucina rack up damage at early percentages.

However, these stop working past around ~40% (Haven't done testing, but I mean, I can I guess)

Obviously the game-plan doesn't revolve around this, but if you can punish your opponent early in their stock, why not rack up that damage?

Edit:
Seems like a guide for Marth talks about U-Air combos.

I'll link the guide here since I don't want people to think I'm stealing this, though I guess I'll just leave the thread until I find out whether or not this same info is hiding somewhere here.

http://smashboards.com/guides/the-blade-of-two-fates-marth-lucina-guide.89/

Credit to @ EternalFlame for this!



plz don't hurt me...

 

[EternalFlame]

Wondering how many people know/use U-Air combos (strings?) in their gameplay!

At low percentages, I've been able to do:

U-Air -> U-Tilt (Most reliable)
U-Air -> Sword Dance (Really Low Percentages, use the "UP" variant)
U-Air -> D-Tilt (It seems to work on heavy characters, though not as reliable as the first two)

and I assume that we can:

U-Air -> Jab
U-Air -> Dolphin Slash


Yeah, the U-Air is pretty nifty, since it has virtually no lag when you land.
I typically zone/space with F-Air, and when there is a visible opening, I fast-fall -> U-Air
You can also:
Jump -> Instantly Air Dodge -> U-Air

I'm confident this has been at least brought up once or twice, as it really helps Lucina rack up damage at early percentages.

However, these stop working past around ~40% (Haven't done testing, but I mean, I can I guess)

Obviously the game-plan doesn't revolve around this, but if you can punish your opponent early in their stock, why not rack up that damage?

Edit:
Seems like a guide for Marth talks about U-Air combos.

I'll link the guide here since I don't want people to think I'm stealing this, though I guess I'll just leave the thread until I find out whether or not this same info is hiding somewhere here.

http://smashboards.com/guides/the-blade-of-two-fates-marth-lucina-guide.89/

Credit to @ EternalFlame for this!



plz don't hurt me...

If anyone threatens to hurt ya, I'll be one of the first to come and defend ya xD But seriously, even though I wrote on this, a friend of mine gave the initial suggestion. All I did was explore the idea as best as I could. Even then, this stuff carried over from other characters too, so its not particularly new (only what you can do with it is the real question xD). Also yes, I've covered all the stuff you mentioned unfortunately. Not like any harm was done though, and its good to see others have found its usage on their own ^^

Also, that Marth guide will reflect Lucina soon enough, once I'm done with this week of exams. Just figured I'd mention it d :

 

[Locuan]

Indeed, U-air, especially falling U-air, have some pretty nifty strings and combos. For example, I wrote about two of the falling U-air combos with their percentage differences against who I ran the test against. Do note, that depending on the character those percentages shift. I do have to try some of your suggestions and see what I can come up with. I have connected a string from ledge recovery that involved F-air > U-air > U-tilt previously as well. It's worth mentioning that U-air and Nair both share the lowest frames for landing lag from Lucina's and Marth's aerials (15 frames).

 

[EternalFlame]

Indeed, U-air, especially falling U-air, have some pretty nifty strings and combos. For example, I wrote about two of the falling U-air combos with their percentage differences against who I ran the test against. Do note, that depending on the character those percentages shift. I do have to try some of your suggestions and see what I can come up with. I have connected a string from ledge recovery that involved F-air > U-air > U-tilt previously as well. It's worth mentioning that U-air and Nair both share the lowest frames for landing lag from Lucina's and Marth's aerials (15 frames).

That last part of FAir > UAir specifically sounds interesting. I will definitely need to explore that option when I am able to xD If that pans out to anything on my end, I'll have to update that FAir setup section (with credit to you of course, for this bit of info xD)

 

[DinosaurPwn]

How do you Upair into a sword dance? Doesnt the upair make them go flying up, and sword dance goes horizontally?

 

[CommanderRin]

How do you Upair into a sword dance? Doesnt the upair make them go flying up, and sword dance goes horizontally?

At very low percentages, the U-Air doesn't knock them upwards very high. This allows you to follow up with Sword Dance!

(Doesn't really work on floaties though)

 

[EternalFlame]

Dem floaties and short characters are the bane of going for the UAir combo, since you're more likely to miss than anything else xD (the followup or the initial hit respectfully) Fast falling characters like Shiek will also press you for time, so be quick to get that followup against characters like those.

Though just to add a bit, DB can function a bit like an anti air (not as good as say the jab or tilts), and careful spacing between slashes will help keep the chain together well. The DB can also setup into other attacks too, so you can go for an attack string like this with the principle here:
UAir > DB setup (side B > up B) > grab and DThrow > BAir > FAir/DB trap if your opponent air dodges

That's only one example though and escapable at points, but that UAir > something is almost always assured at lower percents ^^

 

[pimpimjim]

i've gotten shff uair --> full hop bair/fair --> sweetspot dolphin slash to connect as a true combo in training at around 40ish percents.. they also seemed easier to land if done with a rar uair making it so that the ending frames of uair hit instead of the initial frames

 

[EternalFlame]

i've gotten shff uair --> full hop bair/fair --> sweetspot dolphin slash to connect as a true combo in training at around 40ish percents.. they also seemed easier to land if done with a rar uair making it so that the ending frames of uair hit instead of the initial frames

Gonna have to give that a try sometime xD

 

[Daybreak]

It's actually a very good mix up, especially against projectile based characters. SH'ing or SwordDancing(Ken Combo) into an U-Air rewards greatly, but sometimes the timing is off so you have to make the call. It sets up for a lot of combos. U-Air to U-Tilt is very nice and a great way to rack up the damage you need to get the kill. The potential is there.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

So latest possible uair has the most combo potential?

 

[EternalFlame]

So latest possible uair has the most combo potential?

As long as you UAir just before landing, it'll give the most combo potential. Just keep in mind your opponents weight and percentage, as that affects how long it will work

 

[Lavani]

I have an old list of falling uair combos I found back in 1.0.2 that may or may not be useful. Percentage ranges should work for both Marth and Lucina unless otherwise stated.

Spoiler

All combos are vs ZSS. Percentages given are ranges in which the combo works and are mostly approximate as I only loosely messed with multiples of 5.

uair>dthrow>uair = 0-20%
dthrow>uair = 0%-90%

uair>ftilt = 0-mid%; requires tipper uair at 0%
uair>utilt = 0-mid%; less likely to work at lower percents than uair>ftilt and does less damage, but is more forgiving if you slide under the opponent with uair's momentum.
uair>jab = 0-mid%; reliable at 0% (grab is more rewarding)

uair>fsmash = 40~50% with non-tipper uair, mid 30%s for Lucina. Marth can KO with this from the sides of the stage (fairly lenient, approx. left and right 1/3 of FD). Can cross under and hit the opponent backwards with enough forward momentum after uair.
uair>usmash = 45~65% with non-tipper uair, 40~50% for Lucina. 35~40% tipper? Marth KOs at 64-67%.

uair>uair = 20-~115%, varies with tipper/nontipper. Marth can KO after 110%ish with non-tipper uair>tipper uair, combos better at lower percents with full tipper.

nair(1 hit)>utilt = Strict timing.
nair(1 hit)>ftilt = Strict timing.
nair(1 hit)>dsmash = Strict timing. Benefits Lucina more as dsmash won't tipper, but still doesn't KO until around 150%.

 

[Locuan]

I had made a table regarding two falling U-air combos performed against Mario with both Marth and Lucina. It included the damage at which the combo can start and up to what percent it will combo. If you want to view the table click here. As @ EternalFlame said, you need to keep in mind your opponent's weight and percentage since the combos will depend on those parameters.

 

[EternalFlame]

also to follow up on everyone elses points, all of the combo/followup options are listed on my guide thats on my sig and linked on the main post xD Lavani and Loucan has some of them with their percentages, which is a great asset for getting them to work

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Its a bummer that for uair to combo well you have to use it pretty late in your jump.. Anybody have any strategies for landing late uairs? I havent had much success throwing it out in neutral.

 

[EternalFlame]

Its a bummer that for uair to combo well you have to use it pretty late in your jump.. Anybody have any strategies for landing late uairs? I havent had much success throwing it out in neutral.

The air db setup (sh db1 ＞uair/other air attacks) or the air dodge cancel (sh dodge immediately after jumping ＞uair/nair) are some ways to get the timing for you to uair. Otherwise you'll have to learn to sh to uair after a good read on your part.

Hope it helps dude xD forgot to say that earlier

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

I'll try out the db set up I hadn't thought of that

Ive definitely used the shorthop air dodge uair a lot but it's pretty telegraphed, maybe mixing up with empty air dodge jumps and air dodge uairs could make it less predictable.

 

[EternalFlame]

I'll try out the db set up I hadn't thought of that

Ive definitely used the shorthop air dodge uair a lot but it's pretty telegraphed, maybe mixing up with empty air dodge jumps and air dodge uairs could make it less predictable.

Yeah, mix it up and keep em guessing, and you should be able to get in at points. Lucina's got more to her than just that combo, so use all of her options to rack up the damage

 

[LoreLes]

Just so no one complains, Uair>Utilt/DB/grab at low percents is counted as a true combo. Uair is definitely still good, but this kind of approach is really risky if your opponent shields it. It's definitely still possible to land retreating Uairs though so that's something to think about.