Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Pink Yoshi]

Yeah, I'd wait for an Uprising remake or sequel before Viridi gets considered.

I use this example all the time, but it's like putting Bowser Jr. in Brawl. No one wanted him as a main series one-shot at the time.

I do honestly see your point. I guess I'm a little biased because I've loved Viridi ever since I first saw her, she's a major comfort character for me and I've wanted her in Smash since before Ultimate even got announced. But ultimately her chances would be better if an Uprising sequel or remake comes out. She's kinda like my equivalent of Geno in that way

 

[fogbadge]

Captain Falcon, Ness, Lucas, Palutena and Dark Pit were relevant when back when they were added, though.

So from that batch, it's just Pit (who too was a popular fan request according to Sakurai), Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. Once again, just popular requests and obligatory retro/surprise picks.

but being a veteran doesn’t automatically make you a higher priority character as jigglypuff and mewtwo prove. And the future of their series has never been in doubt

 

[Quillion]

I do honestly see your point. I guess I'm a little biased because I've loved Viridi ever since I first saw her, she's a major comfort character for me and I've wanted her in Smash since before Ultimate even got announced. But ultimately her chances would be better if an Uprising sequel or remake comes out. She's kinda like my equivalent of Geno in that way

I do have my own requests that I'm admittedly obnoxious about myself. They're just not new characters.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Viridi's not even my WORST example of wanting a one-shot character in Smash. I genuinely want Zeena from Sonic Lost World in the game as a Piranha Plant-tier troll pick

 

[Opossum]

but being a veteran doesn’t automatically make you a higher priority character as jigglypuff and mewtwo prove. And the future of their series has never been in doubt

Note that they were also from a series that has a lot of characters. That's another factor at play there.

Also, it's very apparent that different rules apply to veterans vs newcomers. Retaining a popular veteran who fell from stardom is a lot different than using resources to add an all-new has-been. And that's coming from someone with a long list of has-beens I'd like to see. You're trying to find a contradiction where there isn't one.

 

[fogbadge]

Note that they were also from a series that has a lot of characters. That's another factor at play there.

Also, it's very apparent that different rules apply to veterans vs newcomers. Retaining a popular veteran who fell from stardom is a lot different than using resources to add an all-new has-been. And that's coming from someone with a long list of has-beens I'd like to see. You're trying to find a contradiction where there isn't one.

what about wolf? there was only 2 when he was added in and was a low priority then. and this was not long after the last SF game certainly didn't count as irrelevant. surely all the reason not to be low priority were there? Or are we to assume it’s cause he was a clone?

seriously this conversation is getting interesting don’t stop now

 

[Opossum]

what about wolf? there was only 2 when he was added in and was a low priority then. and this was not long after the last SF game certainly didn't count as irrelevant. surely all the reason not to be low priority were there? Or are we to assume it’s cause he was a clone?

seriously this conversation is getting interesting don’t stop now

I mean...not only was Wolf a derivative character (which, again, are characters that tend to be low priority, especially considering he was low priority even in Brawl), but Star Fox Command was the most recent Star Fox game that wasn't an upscaled port at the time development on Smash 4 started, and that was six years prior in 2006. That absolutely qualified as fairly irrelevant by that point.

So yeah, Wolf was:

1) From a series with waning relevance
2) Was, despite his changes, a derivative character, which have precedence for being low priority
3) Was almost dropped from Brawl because he was low priority even then

But also, again, Wolf was a veteran anyway. This statement is mostly about newcomers, as it stemmed from the idea of Tingle being added. When Wolf was actually added in Brawl? Yeah, he was very relevant, with Assault and Command still being well within the public conscience.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean...not only was Wolf a derivative character (which, again, are characters that tend to be low priority, especially considering he was low priority even in Brawl), but Star Fox Command was the most recent Star Fox game that wasn't an upscaled port at the time development on Smash 4 started, and that was six years prior in 2006. That absolutely qualified as fairly irrelevant by that point.

So yeah, Wolf was:

1) From a series with waning relevance
2) Was, despite his changes, a derivative character, which have precedence for being low priority
3) Was almost dropped from Brawl because he was low priority even then

But also, again, Wolf was a veteran anyway. This statement is mostly about newcomers, as it stemmed from the idea of Tingle being added. When Wolf was actually added in Brawl? Yeah, he was very relevant, with Assault and Command still being well within the public conscience.

but wolf was a low priority character in brawl as well which is the one i was referring too

 

[Opossum]

but wolf was a low priority character in brawl as well which is the one i was referring too

In that case, yes, he was low priority then due to his semi-clone status combined with the development stress brought on by Sonic's late addition.

But this is also really beside the point. The point wasn't that relevant characters couldn't be low priority; it was that irrelevant characters tend to be low priority if they even get added at all.

If you look at the characters added in Brawl, there are only two characters who didn't fit the definition of "relevant." One was R.O.B., the token surprise character Sakurai likes to add (literally meant to be an exception to the rule, just like Mr. Game & Watch beforehand and Duck Hunt after the fact), and the other was Pit, who got in due to fan demand, as noted by Sakurai (making him similar to, say, K. Rool and how he was able to skip the proverbial line).

The issue facing a character like Tingle is that he simultaneously doesn't fit the kind of character Sakurai uses as the token surprise, alongside having little to no fan demand (instead having a massive hate base instead).

 

[fogbadge]

In that case, yes, he was low priority then due to his semi-clone status combined with the development stress brought on by Sonic's late addition.

But this is also really beside the point. The point wasn't that relevant characters couldn't be low priority; it was that irrelevant characters tend to be low priority if they even get added at all.

If you look at the characters added in Brawl, there are only two characters who didn't fit the definition of "relevant." One was R.O.B., the token surprise character Sakurai likes to add (literally meant to be an exception to the rule, just like Mr. Game & Watch beforehand and Duck Hunt after the fact), and the other was Pit, who got in due to fan demand, as noted by Sakurai (making him similar to, say, K. Rool and how he was able to skip the proverbial line).

The issue facing a character like Tingle is that he simultaneously doesn't fit the kind of character Sakurai uses as the token surprise, alongside having little to no fan demand (instead having a massive hate base instead).

alright then

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even Pit had the very successful GBA port of Kid Icarus. If I remember correctly, wasn't that a factor in his conclusion?

Current relevance has always been a factor.

Even in Ultimate, the only first party additions that weren't current were K. Rool and Dark Samus, and they were explicitly included due to the ballot. Inkling, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Isabelle, Incineroar, Byleth, Min Min and Pyra/Mythra were all characters in products that were in the public mind.

Not having a place in the current market isn't a death sentence, but getting in is a lot easier when people can see your games on the shelf.

 

[Dinoman96]

Even Pit had the very successful GBA port of Kid Icarus. If I remember correctly, wasn't that a factor in his conclusion?

I don't think he ever said that, no. I posted the link to it above, Sakurai said that Pit was included because he knew he was a popular character request in the east and the west.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think he ever said that, no. I posted the link to it above, Sakurai said that Pit was included because he knew he was a popular character request in the east and the west.

I remember this too, and Pit was sort of a retro addition in Brawl. Especially the part where he was compared to Samus a lot was highlighted back in the day. There's also the Melee trophy that has the last line saying amongst the lines of "will Pit ever fight again?" which might've been a hint he was already on the mind of the developers.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel that both sakurai and the fans make up reasons to exclude characters. Fans are far more guilty of this but I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion

fans also fill in the blanks with what ever takes their fancy

 

[Perkilator]

As much as I loved Sora’s trailer, I think it would’ve felt more natural (and, dare I say, more impactful) if the gameplay section played Rage Awakened before transitioning back into Simple and Clean.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Low tiers are boring, cheesy characters that are a slog to play and fight because they generally will lose a million neutral interactions but they get get one grab and kill you. It’s simply not fun to fight since you feel cheated out of a stock and not fun to play because you get steamrolled if you don’t get that one grab (which will happen often)

 

[fogbadge]

tiers are boring

this is my view

 

[Diddy Kong]

Low tiers are boring, cheesy characters that are a slog to play and fight because they generally will lose a million neutral interactions but they get get one grab and kill you. It’s simply not fun to fight since you feel cheated out of a stock and not fun to play because you get steamrolled if you don’t get that one grab (which will happen often)

That applies to which low tiers? Luigi and to some extent DK?

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Luigi, Doc, DK, Ice climbers, D3. Btw I don’t literally mean a grab, I just mean the one hit that leads to a cheeky 20% kill.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Time for maybe my worst take ever.

I must be the only human in the history of humanity who genuinely wants the Trophy Girls (Ami, Megumi, Liz and Isabella) from Crash Team Racing in Smash Bros over Crash himself. Maybe it's because they've always been characters I really like. Maybe it's because it'd be a hilarious curveball pick like with Piranha Plant. Maybe it's for the genuine potential they could have as a representation of CTR as a whole. Maybe it's the reactions everyone would have (it'd be pure chaos). But whatever the case, these four girls are by FAR my biggest crazy troll pick, even moreso than Zeena. It'd just be so damn funny.

 

[fogbadge]

moray towers was a waste of splatoon stage potential. granted it was probably the one with the laytout that would have stood out as a smash stage but it feels so plain. with mah mahi resort could have been a level with shifting water levels something still not used in smash. shifty station could have been another one with the random layouts

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

moray towers was a waste of splatoon stage potential. granted it was probably the one with the laytout that would have stood out as a smash stage but it feels so plain. with mah mahi resort could have been a level with shifting water levels something still not used in smash. shifty station could have been another one with the random layouts

I'd like to behave bolder than this for a moment, and state that Spatoon in Smash was by far the dullest Ultimate inclusion overall. I know that's theoretically predictable, given the common consensus of being a lock back in the ballot days, but I originally didn't want Splatoon fighters in Smash, and had to adapt to the concept in order to accept it. Unfortunately, it's actual execution in Ultimate was as awful as I had feared. Just the Inklings, the Squid Sisters assist, and the most boring choice for a stage. IIRC the music wasn't impressive either, although me failing to recall it by heart isn't a good sign in that aspect's favor. In particular, I couldn't have been less impressed by the Inklings' kit, or most of their alternate costumes.

None of these factors make Splatoon the worst inclusion, not even in the base game, but especially since I did end up enjoying Splatoon's style, the way it was handled in Ultimate felt somewhat like a slap in the face.

 

[fogbadge]

oh yes smash 4's final dlc character should have been the inklings rather than what we got

 

[Laniv]

moray towers was a waste of splatoon stage potential. granted it was probably the one with the laytout that would have stood out as a smash stage but it feels so plain. with mah mahi resort could have been a level with shifting water levels something still not used in smash. shifty station could have been another one with the random layouts

I still say that layout would've been PERFECT for a 25m stage, but. okay. the worst splatoon stage makes it in.

Seriously, not the obvious Urchin Underpass or Blackbelly Skatepark?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still say that layout would've been PERFECT for a 25m stage, but. okay. the worst splatoon stage makes it in.

Seriously, not the obvious Urchin Underpass or Blackbelly Skatepark?

Now you say that , it's weird they didn't make a stage exactly like that for a Donkey Kong Arcade stage as 25M. I always felt it was odd indeed it was used for Splatoon, but never having played it, I wouldn't know what else there was to choose from.

 

[Demon Dragon]

IMO, I would have preferred the Deepsea Metro instead.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really like that they chose Moray Towers.

It was my favorite stage in Splatoon 1.

 

[fogbadge]

I still say that layout would've been PERFECT for a 25m stage, but. okay. the worst splatoon stage makes it in.

Seriously, not the obvious Urchin Underpass or Blackbelly Skatepark?

yeah it's things like this that make me wonder about the stage selection process. some are the obvious choice and some are really random. i guess that reflects the characters

 

[Opossum]

Saltspray Rig would've been my choice for a Splatoon stage.

 

[fogbadge]

Saltspray Rig would've been my choice for a Splatoon stage.

That’d have been kinda fun

 

[Perkilator]

I think Eggman could work if he fought on foot, but with his gadgets in tow.

 

[fogbadge]

I think Eggman could work if he fought on foot, but with his gadgets in tow.

is that unpopular? i could swear ive seen many suggest it

 

[FazDude]

is that unpopular? i could swear ive seen many suggest it

It's probably unpopular among the vast majority who'd prefer him in an Egg Mobile/Walker/etc.

 

[fogbadge]

It's probably unpopular among the vast majority who'd prefer him in an Egg Mobile/Walker/etc.

hmm maybe its just me then. personally i'd be fine with whatever

 

[StrangeKitten]

I wouldn't complain if Eggman got in without Egg Mobile/Egg Walker. I'd just be happy to have him playable. I do think, however, that his mechs would add to his uniqueness. If he stayed in the mech all the time, he'd only be the second mech user after Bowser Jr. If they made his mech able to break, and you could play as him mechless for a bit, that'd be even more unique.

 

[Perkilator]

If they made his mech able to break, and you could play as him mechless for a bit, that'd be even more unique.

So something like this:

Full Dr. Eggman Smash moveset commission for @Fawful117 ! pic.twitter.com/pLPD3u18rE

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) January 28, 2021

 

[Perkilator]

I'm really not sure why Smash never tried what PSASBR did and made the occasional stage that takes two franchises and merges them into one setting. I think that would make a lot more stages interesting in design.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm really not sure why Smash never tried what PSASBR did and made the occasional stage that takes two franchises and merges them into one setting. I think that would make a lot more stages interesting in design.

Oh I can answer this.

Its because it robs each franchise of the ability to stand on it's own. Smash is much more "museum" like than PSASBR. Seeing Skyworld being invaded by Egg Robos could be cool, but it's not a good showcase of what Kid Icarus or Sonic are like.

There's also the answer that it shows a lack of confidence in each IP.

 

[fogbadge]

Seeing Skyworld being invaded by Egg Robos could be cool

something for the adventure mode?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

something for the adventure mode?

That'd probably be a better spot for something like that, yeah.