Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Lenidem]

It's Mario. What does Mario do? He shoots fireballs, yes, but another trademark "thing" of his is getting big.

Just give Mario a Mega Mushroom and make it a transformation Final Smash. It's all your moves, but big, and you get a new stomping animation while moving around so you can damage/trip opponents by just walking into them. Easy to understand for newbies and fun to control, done and done.

I agree on paper, but wouldn't his size be a problem on some stages with a roof?

 

[fogbadge]

I agree on paper, but wouldn't his size be a problem on some stages with a roof?

we could have him act like snorlax

 

[RileyXY1]

I agree on paper, but wouldn't his size be a problem on some stages with a roof?

Jigglypuff exists.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I agree on paper, but wouldn't his size be a problem on some stages with a roof?

Giga Bowser worked before and we can ensure that Mega Mario works even better by having the upper half of his body not collide with terrain to make maneuvering him through tight spaces easier/possible.

 

[UserKev]

I feel like the Mega Mushroom lost all spunk considering its an item. It'd be barely unique to Mario as it could've been.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I feel like the Mega Mushroom lost all spunk considering its an item. It'd be barely unique to Mario as it could've been.

That's the Super Mushroom.

The Mega Mushroom is not an item in Smash.

 

[Lenidem]

Giga Bowser worked before and we can ensure that Mega Mario works even better by having the upper half of his body not collide with terrain to make maneuvering him through tight spaces easier/possible.

Indeed. I have never really played Brawl and I don't remember Smash 4 well enough, so maybe it's a non-issue after all.

OK, Mega-Mushroom has my vote!

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've already made my disdain for Smash trailers clear, but it really rubs me the wrong way that all new Smash characters get individual CGI trailers while most of Nintendo's other game reveal trailers, including major titles like Mario Wonder and BOTW, either open straight into gameplay footage, a recycled cutscene, or basic text. Putting aside my personal gripes with Smash cameos being built up as important, I'm just really put off by the idea of being a developer for say, Mario Party, and seeing the game I worked on being revealed with narration over B-roll, and then Sora's cameo in Smash being given a bombastic Disney-quality cinematic trailer only a week later.

Compare the Arms reveal trailer - primarily live action footage with some CGI sections in a barren warehouse with only 2 characters and a bunch of disembodied arms - and the Min Min Smash reveal trailer - fully animated with proper backgrounds and the near entire cast of Arms portrayed in person. When you put them side by side it's actually shocking, and Arms has one of the higher budget recent non-Smash Nintendo trailers too.

The fact that an in-depth gameplay overview for one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history (a Zelda solo title) just got shadowdropped with no fanfare is really solidifiying this belief.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash Ultimate Deluxe would probably the best and most safe route to go for a next game. Just add DLC with new Adventure Mode and a little more moveset revamps and balancing and updated graphics and the game is good to go. Even if it means less newcomers, or less unique newcomers overall.

 

[Perkilator]

Discussing characters based on their relevancy has to be some of the most cynical and joyless parts of Smash speculation.

 

[Lenidem]

The fact that an in-depth gameplay overview for one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history (a Zelda solo title) just got shadowdropped with no fanfare is really solidifiying this belief.

Is it really "one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history" though?

Yes, every Zelda fan has dreamt to play as Zelda at some point. But I mean... come on, look at the game. True, it has the potential to be fun. But the graphic engine is the one from LA's remake. It's... minimalistic, to say it politely.

On my circle at least, the anticipation for this game is nowhere near the level of BOT or TOTK, just to stay on the Switch era.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Smash has essentially become something sold on spectacle and in that regard the elaborate CG trailers do make sense. The gameplay of SSB is something essentially settled at this point, so outside a very particular gimmick to a new fighter, it's hard to really do the easy hype outside the context of character reveals and their moves. Smash's sizzle is the novelty/fantasy of notable figures interacting and then fighting and the trailers go all in on that.

By comparison something like Echoes of Wisdom is marketing itself based on the puzzle-oriented gameplay and the various game world context it takes place in. Playing as Zelda will sell many copies but having a game experience with depth on top of that will sell even more. That's not even getting into most 2D Zeldas not really relying on cutscenes or strong story aspects to sell advertise.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is it really "one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history" though?

Yes, every Zelda fan has dreamt to play as Zelda at some point. But I mean... come on, look at the game. True, it has the potential to be fun. But the graphic engine is the one from LA's remake. It's... minimalistic, to say it politely.

On my circle at least, the anticipation for this game is nowhere near the level of BOT or TOTK, just to stay on the Switch era.

It's a start. Better to be safe than sorry. Sure this isn't a big project as the 3D Zelda games, but the fact they're doing all this experimental stuff like a playable Zelda and certain mechanics from the modern BotW Era games in a 2D game is at least interesting.

 

[Lenidem]

It's a start. Better to be safe than sorry. Sure this isn't a big project as the 3D Zelda games, but the fact they're doing all this experimental stuff like a playable Zelda and certain mechanics from the modern BotW Era games in a 2D game is at least interesting.

I agree that it's interesting. But calling EOW "one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history" is a big exaggeration, IMO.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I agree that it's interesting. But calling EOW "one of the most anticipated games in Nintendo's history" is a big exaggeration, IMO.

Smash has essentially become something sold on spectacle and in that regard the elaborate CG trailers do make sense. The gameplay of SSB is something essentially settled at this point, so outside a very particular gimmick to a new fighter, it's hard to really do the easy hype outside the context of character reveals and their moves. Smash's sizzle is the novelty/fantasy of notable figures interacting and then fighting and the trailers go all in on that.

By comparison something like Echoes of Wisdom is marketing itself based on the puzzle-oriented gameplay and the various game world context it takes place in. Playing as Zelda will sell many copies but having a game experience with depth on top of that will sell even more. That's not even getting into most 2D Zeldas not really relying on cutscenes or strong story aspects to sell advertise.

When I say that, I am referring to EOW's concept of a Zelda solo game, and the fact that it isn't being given adequate marketing attention for how anticipated a Zelda solo game has been since the 90s, not that EOW is itself an extremely anticipated game. Additionally, when I negatively compare it to Smash's marketing, I am not only talking about the lack of a CGI trailer, but also how major promotional content for EOW has been distributed compared to - what I view as - minor Smash content - that the whole gameplay overview for EOW wasn't livestreamed or even announced in advance, while reveals of individual Smash characters have a big deal made out of them with live streams and advance announcements even if they're in another live stream, without exception.

 

[Perkilator]

I’m sure I’ve said something to this effect before, but I can’t stress enough; SSBU hyper-focusing on making the music fast-paced was to its detriment in terms of musical variety, even though we got some great remixes out of it. This - along with what Ultimate did to the Final Smashes and the victory themes - comes across to me as pandering to the competitive scene at the cost of some of Smash’s personality and charm.

 

[Lenidem]

When I say that, I am referring to EOW's concept of a Zelda solo game, and the fact that it isn't being given adequate marketing attention for how anticipated a Zelda solo game has been since the 90s, not that EOW is itself an extremely anticipated game. Additionally, when I negatively compare it to Smash's marketing, I am not only talking about the lack of a CGI trailer, but also how major promotional content for EOW has been distributed compared to - what I view as - minor Smash content - that the whole gameplay overview for EOW wasn't livestreamed or even announced in advance, while reveals of individual Smash characters have a big deal made out of them with live streams and advance announcements even if they're in another live stream, without exception.

We actually agree. But I think the lack of marketing promotion for EOW comes from, well, Nintendo's lack of general investment in this game. I mean... not to offense the fans who are hyped, but the design is recycled from a Game Boy remake that doesn't look great, the map seems to be an adaptation of ALTTP for the second time, and the game base mechanics are seemingly those from BOT/TOTK but simplified...

 

[UserKev]

Maybe this is a reach but we need to get rid of Legendary Pokemon in Pokeballs. I know it's a luxury but over time degraded what made Pokeballs so quirky. A typical Staryu, Onix and Snorlax were already perfectly reliable enough while a Legendary is more a "show time" experience that they might as well not even be (there.)

 

[Lenidem]

Maybe this is a reach but we need to get rid of Legendary Pokemon in Pokeballs. I know it's a luxury but over time degraded what made Pokeballs so quirky. A typical Staryu, Onix and Snorlax were already perfectly reliable enough while a Legendary is more a "show time" experience that they might as well not even be (there.)

Maybe put them in Master Balls only, and make those VERY rate?

 

[Perkilator]

I think you could probably get away with a “Spotlight Shop” in the next Smash, where DLC fighters can be purchased, but only on the following conditions:

• The Spotlight Shop can only use in-game money
• The DLC fighters should still be normal paid DLC
• Any and all seasonal content should still be available in the shop even after the season ends

 

[RouffWestie]

A straight Ultimate port on the next Nintendo console that acts more as Smash for Wii U to Smash for 3DS is more safe and logical than a deluxe port like MK8D. Keeps the same engine and roster, but has different modes, stages, and visuals between the two versions. The third-party companies are more likely to be on-board because they get the benefit continuing to get paid for their Fighter's Pass 1 and 2 content and DLC Mii Costumes, which they're way more likely to agree to over giving that content away for free in the new base game on top of the free content they already had in base Ultimate. And it lets them continue to sell hypothetical future Fighter's Passes to anyone who doesn't make the move from the OG Switch or Ultimate.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A straight Ultimate port on the next Nintendo console that acts more as Smash for Wii U to Smash for 3DS is more safe and logical than a deluxe port like MK8D. Keeps the same engine and roster, but has different modes, stages, and visuals between the two versions. The third-party companies are more likely to be on-board because they get the benefit continuing to get paid for their Fighter's Pass 1 and 2 content and DLC Mii Costumes, which they're way more likely to agree to over giving that content away for free in the new base game on top of the free content they already had in base Ultimate. And it lets them continue to sell hypothetical future Fighter's Passes to anyone who doesn't make the move from the OG Switch or Ultimate.

I've already felt like continued DLC for SSBU is more likely to give Ultimate Deluxe supporters what they want than an actual Ultimate port anyway, because more of an FP3's budget can be devoted to making new content rather than relicensing all the old stuff.

Which they'll probably have to relicense at some point anyway, but still.

 

[NotWilliam]

I think plant is criminally underrated.

 

[UserKev]

Maybe put them in Master Balls only, and make those VERY rate?

I'd rather Legendaries be axed all together. Master Balls are incredibly redundant. And it says a lot considering I forgot Master Balls were even an item. But this is just my opinion.

 

[Lenidem]

I'd rather Legendaries be axed all together. Master Balls are incredibly redundant. And it says a lot considering I forgot Master Balls were even an item. But this is just my opinion.

They don't pop very often. Less often than the trophies.

I don't know, I kinda like the "wow" effect when a legendary Pokémon show up. As long as it is a rare event and we can disable it if we want, I'm OK with it.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm honestly fine with a massively reduced roster with a ton of cuts. That's what I'm expecting to happen.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm honestly fine with a massively reduced roster with a ton of cuts. That's what I'm expecting to happen.

why? what reason is there for them not to carry on as usual with minimal cuts

 

[RileyXY1]

why? what reason is there for them not to carry on as usual with minimal cuts

It's just the matter of the new content. Ultimate had to sacrifice so much to be as big as it is. The game only had five unique newcomers and four new stages at launch because their priorities were to bring back every previous playable character and nearly every previous stage. If the roster got even bigger they would have to sacrifice even more new content at launch. And that's not getting into the single player content, which is a whole different story.

 

[fogbadge]

It's just the matter of the new content. Ultimate had to sacrifice so much to be as big as it is. The game only had five unique newcomers and four new stages at launch because their priorities were to bring back every previous playable character and nearly every previous stage. If the roster got even bigger they would have to sacrifice even more new content at launch. And that's not getting into the single player content, which is a whole different story.

cutting large quantities of veterans doesn't automatically make more development time. veteran are mostly made with their old data the devs time they take is significantly less that new things. the same goes for returning modes. massive cuts would require completely rebuilding smash from the ground up which is just not how they do things

 

[RileyXY1]

cutting large quantities of veterans doesn't automatically make more development time. veteran are mostly made with their old data the devs time they take is significantly less that new things. the same goes for returning modes. massive cuts would require completely rebuilding smash from the ground up which is just not how they do things

It might be different this time as I think they would want to separate this game from Ultimate due to Ultimate likely being playable on the Switch 2 through backwards compatibility. While Ultimate focused on celebrating Smash's past, I think that this game will instead celebrate Smash's future.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Smash in its current form has been pushed to its absolute limit, so I would not mind a lot of cuts in favor for a "new step" for Smash with new mechanics and a lot of moveset tweaks/overhauls.

I mainly want a new set of all-new stages.

 

[fogbadge]

It might be different this time as I think they would want to separate this game from Ultimate due to Ultimate likely being playable on the Switch 2 through backwards compatibility. While Ultimate focused on celebrating Smash's past, I think that this game will instead celebrate Smash's future.

surely that would just make for a situation like from melee to brawl or from brawl to smash wii U.

 

[Perkilator]

To me, as far as playable fighters goes, the perfect amount of Gen 1 representation for Pokémon in Smash would be:

• Pikachu & Meowth (64)
• Mewtwo (Melee)
• Charizard (Brawl)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Double ****

 

[Diddy Kong]

To me, as far as playable fighters goes, the perfect amount of Gen 1 representation for Pokémon in Smash would be:

• Pikachu & Meowth (64)
• Mewtwo (Melee)
• Charizard (Brawl)

Pikachu, Charizard and Mewtwo actually would be more than enough. Add in Lucario and Greninja and I think that's probably all the most popular Pokémon ever. If they'd just focus on them and making their move set more close to source material in the cases of Mewtwo, Charizard and Lucario that'd be amazing presentation. These are amazingly popular characters but their play styles aren't too popular because of earlier limitations of Smash I feel. They could spice them up easily, and no Pokémon fan would really complain cause chances are huge this line up does well with 80%+ of Pokémon fans.

I think overal choices of popular characters and accurate, lively, and good functioning move sets of these characters make up for better presentation of a series than just adding more characters.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

To me, as far as playable fighters goes, the perfect amount of Gen 1 representation for Pokémon in Smash would be:

• Pikachu & Meowth (64)
• Mewtwo (Melee)
• Charizard (Brawl)

I don't think this is a good idea, you removed all the interesting ones and kept the boring important ones!

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I’m sure I’ve said something to this effect before, but I can’t stress enough; SSBU hyper-focusing on making the music fast-paced was to its detriment in terms of musical variety, even though we got some great remixes out of it. This - along with what Ultimate did to the Final Smashes and the victory themes - comes across to me as pandering to the competitive scene at the cost of some of Smash’s personality and charm.

I think you made a really good point until you brought competitive play into this. We should have more Swan Lessons and 25Ms, don't get me wrong, and Sakurai's given reasoning (because he saw Animal Crossing music play at a tournament) is really dumb, but I'd say it falls less into "pandering to competitive" - because, trust me, Smash does NOT do that beyond a superficial level - and more overcorrection, a lot of people - both comp and casual - really disliked that Swan Lesson was in the game for whatever reason, and that feedback must've been heard - if you know me, you know where this is going.

At the very least, they did keep most of the "offending" tracks aside from NES Brawl Medley and original Midna's Lament, and added a few - if quite few - outlier tracks like Dwelling of Doom and Ring Dong Dang, and I do think AC stages getting some more un-AC-like songs for their use in comp play was good though, but even then, it would've been better to introduce better competitive stage options with more diverse aesthetics, be them new stages or unique variants, instead of sticking to older Smash games' mentality of "simple game = simple stage, complex game = complex stage"

I also have no clue how victory themes being shortened relates to competitive play???

 

[Perkilator]

Quoting from the next Smash thread:

I’ve been thinking…nobody knows what the future holds for Smash in a post-Ultimate world. With that being said, one thing I would personally like is for the next game to be a soft reboot. I.E. not necessarily eschewing the old ways of Smash, but changing enough to make it fresh for both new and longtime fans.

 

[RileyXY1]

Quoting from the next Smash thread:

That is what I'm expecting as well.

 

[UserKev]

Is it just me or should Rayquaza have gotten the PP treatment? Rayquaza can ideally rep gen 3 of Pokemon and can clearly be properly shrink down in size. It has a full moveset in Brawl and its floaty movements would clearly be no issue similarly to Mewtwo. Sakurai should curveball us again with Rayquaza as one of the most brilliant contenders.