Vers. 1.6.0 Patch Notes

[hey_there]

If training mode says that it's a combo, then that's good enough to at least start trying it out.

Not always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCoHw9RPVpY

 

[Dobbston]

Not always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCoHw9RPVpY

Training mode is buggy when it comes to ledges and some specific moves but I think it can at least tell whether or not a character is in hitstun after a throw.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Combo - short for combination - is a string of consecutive attacks without stopping or allowing the opponent to block, counter or evade. The fact is, Smash doesn't have true combos. If you can string together any number of attacks, that's technically a combo (in my opinion). If you want to do real, true combos, play Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.

 

[Dobbston]

Combo - short for combination - is a string of consecutive attacks without stopping or allowing the opponent to block, counter or evade. The fact is, Smash doesn't have true combos. If you can string together any number of attacks, that's technically a combo (in my opinion).

It all depends on how many frames the opponent is in hitstun for; if you land an attack while your opponent is still in hitstun that's a combo.

 

[t!MmY]

Combo - short for combination - is a string of consecutive attacks without stopping or allowing the opponent to block, counter or evade.

While that definition is decent enough as a general concept of a 'combo' the truth of the matter is that it's mostly from the perspective of a 'traditional street fighter' game. Game mechanics vary from fighter to fighter and I feel like Smash Bros. can fall outside of the traditional street fighter concepts from time to time.

I think a simple way of understanding a 'combo' from a Smash perspective would be more along the line of "connecting consecutive attacks while the opponent is still in a helpless state (i.e. HitStun, Tripped, et cetera).

It's been my experience that Training Mode is not entirely reliable with registering combos, but it is a good baseline. If something is registering as a combo in Training Mode it is effectively a combo in that situation and then you have to explore extraneous counters to that situation yourself (such as DI, or using a defense).

To simply stop at the very beginning and say the combo is not useful is only cutting one's training short.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I agree with both of the above statements, but until Sakurai and his team actually decide to classify Smash as a 'fighter' and implement a true combo system, it can be argued Smash doesn't actually contain combos (or, perhaps, it simply changes our understanding of a combo).

In my opinion, if I down throw and then charge upSmash and both attacks hit the opponent (even though he/she could have DIed out of it), it's still a combo in that instance. Of course, that's where Smash varies from other fighters. In Mortal Kombat, you can't break out of any combo unless you have a breaker. In Smash, with proper DI and/or a very quick attack, it's possibly to break out of what could become a combo.

I'd say one of the only 'true' combos in Smash would be Fox's double jab combo. And while it may be a true combo, I think it's also a broken mechanic that probably should be patched (look up the video tutorial on it). But I digress......

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Not always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCoHw9RPVpY

Yeah, goofy things like this discount the value of training mode. Still, it's pretty useful in assessing whether or not moves connect.

Regardless of classification, Smash has combos. They just aren't as silly as the ones in Marvel or more traditional fighters. And in some traditional fighters (e.g. Tekken), there are some setups that work if you miss a ukemi and some that work if you roll.

You know that certain characters can escape that jab lock right? Doc is one of those btw.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

You know that certain characters can escape that jab lock right? Doc is one of those btw.

Yeah, below 90% (from my understanding), Doc can get out with a well-timed upB. Otherwise, it's apparently impossible. Also, I've gotten into it at lower percents and just couldn't manage to hit the upB (and I was mashing it!). Here's the video I mentioned in my previous post, has some interesting info (in the video and in the description on the YouTube page). I noticed the video was made prior to the Mewtwo patch, so I'm not sure if anything was changed with the Fox combo or not.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Yeah, below 90% (from my understanding), Doc can get out with a well-timed upB. Otherwise, it's apparently impossible. Also, I've gotten into it at lower percents and just couldn't manage to hit the upB (and I was mashing it!). Here's the video I mentioned in my previous post, has some interesting info (in the video and in the description on the YouTube page). I noticed the video was made prior to the Mewtwo patch, so I'm not sure if anything was changed with the Fox combo or not.

Yeah, I saw that vid a while back. One thing that's scarier than that set up is a Fox player baiting the Up-B and punishing accordingly.

 

[Kisatamura]

You just do nair instead or anticipate it. Nair is a little bit safer and it's not so obvious if it gets blocked.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Here's a slight change in topic, but not completely. What's the best way to counter a character with a multi-hit dAir attack? For example, two that come to mind that I occasionally have trouble with are Kirby and Wario. If I block the attack, their jab or tilt start up seem to beat anything I've got (it's as if they go from the final hit of the dAir to the first hit of the jab/tilt simultaneously). If I let off the block too soon I'm hit with part of the attack and then they proceed to punish. If I try to roll or spot dodge, same thing, hit with the last few hits of the attack and punished. I know it's best to simply avoid or guess these attacks, but most of these players just spam it and with Doc's speed, I can't always get away. I'm thinking maybe pivoting might be an option, but I was just curious how other Doc players approach this particular attack string that several characters possess. It's probably something incredibly simple that I've overlooked or overanalyzed.

 

[Dobbston]

Here's a slight change in topic, but not completely. What's the best way to counter a character with a multi-hit dAir attack?

Unless their Dair is completely safe on guard, Up B OOS should be able to punish it.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Unless their Dair is completely safe on guard, Up B OOS should be able to punish it.

Kirby goes right into jabs or up tilts. I'm not sure the up B would start up quicker than a Kirby mashing jabs or tilts (I haven't tried it, but I feel like my timing would have to be perfect). Also, the Wario would use his charged fart attack for an easy kill at higher percents, but also did jabs/tilts immediately after his dAir animation stopped. I'll have to practice some more things or just get better at running and evading, I guess. Damn those multi-hit attacks!

 

[Dobbston]

Up B comes out in 3 frames and Dr. Mario does have his own Dair and the tornado.