Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[Spinosaurus]

And us Europeans are hiding under the radar.

 

[adom4]

And us Europeans are hiding under the radar.

And some people are hiding even deeper.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

See, you're only proving my point. As soon as somebody openly questions your attitude towards your character your retort is "you don't main Pac-Man so I just don't listen to you." If you want to prove me wrong then you have to get out of your fantasy world and start attending tournaments. Until then, all you say is just shallow theory that holds no merit. So for the time being it's your opinions that aren't being taken serious - ever wondered why?

I just love when people only talk about 'Murica's and Japan's competitive scene.

And us Europeans are hiding under the radar.

If by "hiding under the radar" you mean "just not as good as Japan and USA are" then yeah, I guess you could say that we're hiding under the radar.

But the truth is that we're just not as good.

 

[PUK]

Though is saw some people giving a hard time to Ramin, and Ramin is one of the best player.

 

[Trifroze]

See, you're only proving my point. As soon as somebody openly questions your attitude towards your character your retort is "you don't main Pac-Man so I just don't listen to you." If you want to prove me wrong then you have to get out of your fantasy world and start attending tournaments. Until then, all you say is just shallow theory that holds no merit. So for the time being it's your opinions that aren't being taken serious - ever wondered why?





If by "hiding under the radar" you mean "just not as good as Japan and USA are" then yeah, I guess you could say that we're hiding under the radar.

But the truth is that we're just not as good.

Some European regional/local scenes are on the level of most American equivalents (I know Finland is), it's just that travelling around and organizing majors is much harder to us so getting that massive improvement every month or so doesn't happen. Hence we also don't have those few players per scene who absolutely destroy everyone else.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Some European regional/local scenes are on the level of most American equivalents (I know Finland is), it's just that travelling around and organizing majors is much harder to us so getting that massive improvement every month or so doesn't happen. Hence we also don't have those few players per scene who absolutely destroy everyone else.

How is it going in Finland? East Germany is finally getting more scenes thanks to Smash 4 and I'm really happy about it (and proud since I'm helping :3)

 

[PUK]

Some European regional/local scenes are on the level of most American equivalents (I know Finland is), it's just that travelling around and organizing majors is much harder to us so getting that massive improvement every month or so doesn't happen. Hence we also don't have those few players per scene who absolutely destroy everyone else.

I think it's not (except for Finish(?)), Barcelona, madrid, London, berlin, Dublin, amsterdam, copenhaguen are all accessible with low cost plane, train or even bus.
I know i can go to london the sunday morning and come back the evening to sleep in my bed. For less than 100euros if i'm well organized.

 

[Routa]

How is it going in Finland? East Germany is finally getting more scenes thanks to Smash 4 and I'm really happy about it (and proud since I'm helping :3)

The thing is that there aren't many Sm4sh players in Finland. But the biggest problem is that our regionals/locals are mainly in our capital. Now that would not be an issue if everyone lived near our capital... For example I myself don't have time (or willpower) to travel 200km just to get by ass handed to myself. The thing is that most of the players will have to travel over 200km, so yeah...

Edit: also the lack of friendlies due to distance between players is kinda hurting our scene and the fact that we are very antisocial people does not help at all...

 

[Nu~]

See, you're only proving my point. As soon as somebody openly questions your attitude towards your character your retort is "you don't main Pac-Man so I just don't listen to you." If you want to prove me wrong then you have to get out of your fantasy world and start attending tournaments. Until then, all you say is just shallow theory that holds no merit. So for the time being it's your opinions that aren't being taken serious - ever wondered why?

And I asked you to explain your reasoning.
My word may not hold much water, but neither does yours if you have nothing to back up your stance.

 

[Trifroze]

How is it going in Finland? East Germany is finally getting more scenes thanks to Smash 4 and I'm really happy about it (and proud since I'm helping :3)

We have Smash 4/Melee monthlies that usually get 50-70 participants out of which 40-50 join Smash 4. Also had a "major" a while back that had some Swedish and French players, was streamed on Geeky Goon Squad, although I personally flopped singles after getting 1st seed in pools. Characters that you mostly see top players using here are ZSS, Yoshi, Lucario, Rosalina, Falcon, Luigi and Sheik.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

We have Smash 4/Melee monthlies that usually get 50-70 participants out of which 40-50 join Smash 4. Also had a "major" a while back that had some Swedish and French players, was streamed on Geeky Goon Squad, although I personally flopped singles after getting 1st seed in pools. Characters that you mostly see top players using here are ZSS, Yoshi, Lucario, Rosalina, Falcon, Luigi and Sheik.

So basically better than we are doing. ;_;

 

[Gawain]

I think it's not (except for Finish(?)), Barcelona, madrid, London, berlin, Dublin, amsterdam, copenhaguen are all accessible with low cost plane, train or even bus.
I know i can go to london the sunday morning and come back the evening to sleep in my bed. For less than 100euros if i'm well organized.

Okay no joke, and slightly unrelated, but you guys have it easy with the plane tickets. I was amazed at how cheap international flights between European countries was. It's way cheaper than flying from California to Utah and the distances aren't even that much smaller sometimes! A little jealous, not gonna lie.

We have Smash 4/Melee monthlies that usually get 50-70 participants out of which 40-50 join Smash 4. Also had a "major" a while back that had some Swedish and French players, was streamed on Geeky Goon Squad, although I personally flopped singles after getting 1st seed in pools. Characters that you mostly see top players using here are ZSS, Yoshi, Lucario, Rosalina, Falcon, Luigi and Sheik.

I wonder why you guys see so much Lucario. You barely ever see Lucario at most regionals here in the States.

 

[Greward]

Okay no joke, and slightly unrelated, but you guys have it easy with the plane tickets. I was amazed at how cheap international flights between European countries was. It's way cheaper than flying from California to Utah and the distances aren't even that much smaller sometimes! A little jealous, not gonna lie.

Remember that the money we earn in each country is different. For spain it's not cheap since we're a somewhat poor country, but probably for northern countries it might look cheap. And I guess american salaries are pretty good.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Some European regional/local scenes are on the level of most American equivalents (I know Finland is)

I find that hard to believe.

But I guess it depends which "american equivalents" you are talking about.

And I asked you to explain your reasoning.
My word may not hold much water, but neither does yours if you have nothing to back up your stance.

My stance is that you make up a lot of stuff out of thin air with your theorycraft.

How is that not backed up? That's one of the most well-known facts among the community.

 

[Gawain]

Remember that the money we earn in each country is different. For spain it's not cheap since we're a somewhat poor country, but probably for northern countries it might look cheap. And I guess american salaries are pretty good.

Oh I had forgotten about this, you're right. The income taxes some of you guys pay are outrageously high.

 

[Trifroze]

I find that hard to believe.

But I guess it depends which "american equivalents" you are talking about.

The ones that aren't NY/NJ, Florida or SoCal. The ones you see on popular streams and hear about are the tip of the iceberg. Not saying that other regions can't have one or two godlike players (I did mention that they do whereas we lack that property).

I wonder why you guys see so much Lucario. You barely ever see Lucario at most regionals here in the States.

Basically our best active player, Loota, uses him. Although regarding our best player there is another guy who has won every tournament he's been in with stuff like Palutena (customs on and off) but he kinda just appears and disappears randomly. Might be world class if he put the time in.

 

[hypersonicJD]

And some people are hiding even deeper.

Like Mexicans

Also, Kirby now has some of the best combo games in the game, thanks to his Forward Throw buff. With that thing you can get easily at 60%, Uair is amazing, U-Til it's good for starting combos and it's an anti-air, and Dair is an awesome spike and combo starter. Does anything else stop Kirby from being top tier?

 

[wedl!!]

yeah, a lot of things.

like the fact he can't approach, has horrendous mobility, poor range on normals, lacks a strong projectile outside of inhale, alongside being light+floaty.

 

[Zionaze]

His awful neutral

 

[LiteralGrill]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

 

[Greward]

Like Mexicans

Also, Kirby now has some of the best combo games in the game, thanks to his Forward Throw buff. With that thing you can get easily at 60%, Uair is amazing, U-Til it's good for starting combos and it's an anti-air, and Dair is an awesome spike and combo starter. Does anything else stop Kirby from being top tier?

Probably the fact that his neutral game is pretty underwhelming. He has to approach but lack the speed or tools to do so efficiently. And he's super light too. His bad mobility also hurts his juggle game.

 

[PUK]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

I think luigi placement is too low at this point. In a year i can see him fall around this, but right now not yet.

 

[Trifroze]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

Considering the Japanese meta it looks decent enough to me. Mewtwo, DHD, G&W, Pac-Man and Peach may have some particularly skilled representatives in Japan (we all know at least Pac-Man does) which would explain their otherwise more or less questionable placings. On the contrary, seems like the lack of representation with some characters that we tend to place high that are lower here like Pikachu and Luigi. Learning about ZSS' weaknesses as I play her, I personally don't see her being the second best, although she's very likely top 5. Then again other characters like Rosalina, Pikachu, Mario, Fox and Sonic probably have weaknesses of their own or simply a lack of strengths so I'm not going to try to judge details like that yet.

 

[Antonykun]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

I really need to see Japanese Mewtwos

 

[Nabbitnator]

I really want to see what Mewtwo is doing in japan for their meta.

 

[Sir Tundra]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

villager in top 5?

You know if this included customs then i might agree with villager being top 5

 

[warionumbah2]

villager in top 5?

You know if this included customs then i might agree with villager being top 5

Ranai = Esam of Japan.

 

[Antonykun]

villager in top 5?

You know if this included customs then i might agree with villager being top 5

This is a meta where Ranai exists. Villager is top 5 there because the best player plays solo Villager. Also Japan lacks bs anti Villager stages like Castle Siege

 

[DanGR]

What are villager's other bad stages?

 

[Nu~]

My stance is that you make up a lot of stuff out of thin air with your theorycraft.

How is that not backed up? That's one of the most well-known facts among the community.

If your stance is to call me out, then that's cool. I'm a random on an Internet forum with little national tournament presence
But you missed my point.

Why do you believe that Pac-Man's matchups are so bad? You've brought this up so many times and never explain it. Ever.

 

[Ffamran]

Speak of the devil, Ranai's Villager vs. Ginko's Mewtwo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq2en0ZIEx0. Another match had Ginko use Pac-Man... M2_KENTO's Mewtwo vs. Sopmo's ROB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kolJTd38fao. These two were just uploaded.

What is Japan doing differently with Mewtwo? Just looks like Mewtwo stuff from what I watched... It'd be hilarious if they knew people from other regions are looking, so they just put a random character in a high spot to mess with us. Everyone would be trying to figure out the Mewtwo killer tactics only to neglect their own mains while Japan moves on forward laughing as we lag behind.

 

[Jucchan]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

Seems accurate if we're going by Japanese results only. Maybe Luigi could have been B+ because of Aki. I don't have any big complaints though.

 

[Routa]

Also about finnish competitive scene... It is kinda a big joke. By this I don't mean the players, but everything els is kinda... Well you know... I mean if we take a look at our community's website...

But yeah Loota is very good. One reason why he is doing well might be that there are many Sheik mains and playing Lucario has its benefits.

Btw who was that great Shulk player from finnish scene?

 

[FullMoon]

It's a bit sad that even in Japan, Greninja isn't making much of a splash.

Though if I remember right some of the best Greninja players there don't go to tournaments and aMSa just isn't doing too well I guess.

 

[Antonykun]

What are villager's other bad stages?

Villager despises all transforming stage because they will often have pieces that breaks villager's zoning or even more commonly a walkoff which negates mostly everything that's good about Villager. the act of transforming itself tends to mess with Villager's set ups too. Villager doesn't like Tilting but Lylat gives villager enough platforms to not be bothered by it much. Castle Siege takes the cake though as all sections have something that Villager hates in a stage

 

[momochuu]

most of the greninjas there only play online which is weird considering how not good greninja is online. I think consomme went to a tournament once and placed higher than amsa?

 

[Gawain]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

Roy and Pikachu seem too low, but it doesn't seem too off other than that. I mean come on, Captain Falcon above Pikachu? No way.

 

[Jucchan]

Roy and Pikachu seem too low, but it doesn't seem too off other than that. I mean come on, Captain Falcon above Pikachu? No way.

Captain Falcon is absolutely above Pikachu in Japan. CF has Saiya, Pichi, and Souther who have all placed very well while Pika has what... Shimitake and Lean? I think A- is pretty generous considering the disappointing results. If Abadango hadn't gone to EVO and faced ESAM Pika would have been B+. In fact, in Abadango's 1.0.7 tier list Pika wasn't even top 20 while CF was top 5.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu above Roy.

Im wit it

 

[Routa]

So Abadango made half a tier list it seems.

Thoguhts?

Only thing that disturbs me is that this list has WarioWare Wario instead of the real Wario.