VisT's Vid / Q&A thread - Now w/ matches and massive crawldashing

[skyace89]

it definitely doesn't compare to wavedashing but it has its uses..mindgames,semi-spacing,etc.

 

[Chileno4Live]

it's luigi's upb move. it can kill alot of ppl at low %s. and has some fire in it. people give it so many names we don't have a real name for it yet rofl. fiery upper cut, tiger upper cut, shoryuken, fire jump punch etc... most people get it from SF from Ken XD most ppl will fear luigi cuz of this move <3

Alright, thnx alot ^_^; I've saw this ''name'' in some guides and i was wondering what it could be. I'm confident enough now to say that i'm picking Luigi up as a secondary for DDD. He sorta walls DDD's bad matchups except for 1 which i forgot. I already used the Crawldashing to good use it's so awesome for mindgames and spacing. It actually throws of Marth when he does his Fair. It's so awesome. I also combo it with a grab. Crawldash and then immidiatly dashgrab. It works when he has afterlag on a move he used while you Crawldashed. Luigi ftw =D

 

[skyace89]

funny thing i picked up D3 as a secondary...^_^

 

[Vist]

trying to answer anything that hasn't been answered already...

been pretty busy with work/school lately so I haven't had time to work on the thread. I've been pretty bored with luigi after playing melee luigi again so I'm also working on other characters now and might not be using him much in the future.

Hey, Vist-man (do you mind me tagging the 'man' at the end?).

So, being that this is a combo video and Q&A thread... first of all: daaayyyuummm, your Luigi is quite spastic and awesome. Second of all - a question: ROB?

Yes, a one word question - but I guess that requires an explanation regarding my circumstances...

One of my friends mains ROB and plays Wario for the 'LOL's, but of course I'm asking about the ROB and not the Wario, so enough of that tangential note. So, he mains ROB... And the overall successful ROB stratagem has become something of... a cultural meme? That is to say that we've popularized a certain method of play via inside jokes and some-such. The method itself is simple, formulaic in fact: 'D-smash + N-air = ZOMGHAXWIN' (again, this is a meme, not an actual belief - I don't even know what the actual belief is).

Therein lies my problem. I can tornado successfully against the ROB, but I can't simply spam away with the tornado. My aerial game appears to be shut down by raouls (yet another cultural meme - raoul = the sound Wolf makes when he U-smashes => refers to any and all U-smashes) or by him spacing F-airs, and my landings are frequently punished by D-tilts->[insert horribly mechanical pain inducing activities here]. My attempts at landing further away from ROB don't seem to work particularly well...

And then there are those ****ed N-airs... Oh-em-gee those N-airs. Like, I can see them coming, but every time I see them coming, it's like it's too late (reaction time problem on my part). If I've got him in a combo approaching higher percents, or if he's simply above me... and is facing away from me... It's like: N-air ****. I'm pretty sure that the fact that I happen to be below and behind him gives the N-air a faster hit-box, so to speak, due to the circular motion that the move's hit-box travels. However, it's a position that frequently, situationally (of course), I cannot seem to avoid. The question here, then, is how do I avoid that position? Just avoid punishing him while he's in the air? Get above him? Behind (he seems to have faster DI than Luigi... => can pull off a B-air on me if I chase from behind without bringing along a REALLY FAST reverse aerial rush)? In front (same problem, he has a C-stick like everyone else for anti-directional aerials <_<)?

It seems to just get worse when I consider the D-smash. Landing is hell with D-smash if the ROB is at low percents and I whiff a combo. Although I've read about SDI/DI aiding in the process of getting out of that centrifuge (those who want to be technical about my incorrect use of this word can suck an egg)... I find that I'm consistently getting ***** by it: out of power-shielded aerials, out of grounded approaches (I shouldn't be doing these without fireballs to begin with, but he has a fast trigger finger on the C-stick), out of anything really. To pseudo-quote a friend (I don't remember exactly what he said)... "He's beating you with the same moves over and over again, just using them in different ways! Lawls." (he actually said 'lawls' after that).

However, I have one particular shiny thing about this battle - combos. Whenever I do happen to pull them off, I rack up anywhere between 30-50% from 0% (U-tilt x100000000000->aerial_spam for the win). There's just one problem - that only happens if I ever get the chance to pull off a combo. Should I even be looking to combo ROB? Should I just be getting within hitbox range at every chance and spamming the living daylights out of him?

Oh - and another thing - you've probably guessed by now that I happen to have fear issues against ROB (thus, in retrospect, leading me into plenty of baited positions). Halp?

((Yes, I have already read the match-up thread))

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A more general question: Can Luigi combo at mid-percents (40s-80s) a significant number of moves beyond any initial jabs and some-such? As in, is there a Luigi combo that doesn't result in significant vulnerability (like a whiffed FJP) either starting with a jab, or any other move for that matter, that leads into aerials or tilts and whatnot beyond two or three moves?

Another general question: Why does everyone attempt to do a jab->FJP rather than a jab->uF-smash (the 'u' refers to the F-smash being angled up, just in case my scheme is obscure)?

i'll have to answer this in order...
-Sure, call me Vist-man lol
-thanks for the comment
-VS Rob's 'Raoul's - if you're high enough in the air to be hit by his Upsmash then you probably shouldn't be approaching except for when you know you can safely land (dodge) close to him or hit him with some random aerial.

His fair's are hard to get around but in general you dont want to go against it with anything other than sheilding/powershielding into a sheildgrab or upB OOS if they space poorly or some sort of follow up if they do space it well.

The dsmash you should just sheild/powersheild, spot dodge or short-hop -> aerial just above it. I personally just predict it and sh dair robs when they try to dsmash me

A good thing to keep in mind is that rob will struggle if you can get well into their range and keep them from hitting you with dsmashes or grabs.

-Vs the nair, your best bet is to be grounded so you can just shield it and try to counter react (it's usually harder to avoid it even with dodging like a mad man in the air). Also, you should hold off on being too aggressive when going for combos against ROB if you end up getting hit by the nair. It just sounds to me like you're approaching constantly once you start a combo and get hit by the nair at some point before you can safely connect the next move.

and yeah, going for combos is something you should keep in mind. Just be safe about it... sometimes it works well to just camp just outside of rob's range, not too far not too close. This match up tends to involve a bunch of chasing considering good robs will just want to camp the hell out of you from a distance, so you really have to work on approaching as effectively as possible.

There's isn't really going to be any 'guarenteed' multi-hit combos past 40% or so. You just have to predict the opponents moves and DI but there's not too much that is completely reliable at higher percents as combos.

Last thing- ppl go for the jab to up B over the jab to Ufsmash for a few reasons. One being that you don't really see that combo being pulled off very often but you do see jab upb all the time and it's much more likely to kill. Also the fsmash comes out at least a few frames slower than the upB (see Magus' frame data thread).

Shield pressure has gone to a new level.

Dair to fast fall air dodge to upB

Works alot

this should be called 'the boss', or at least the airdodge to up B

wait i hear polmex was the best luigi, didnt he 3-0 boss???

lol random...

This didn't happen, at least not in tournament b/c
1) they didn't play in tournament
2) 3-0 would mean they would've played in winners/loser's finals -_____-

You're pretty good! And by pretty, I mean really. I didn't even know about the lower cooldown on the uptilt fsmash. I'ma use it now -kekeke-

thanks man

I would like a serious Luigi main, one's who is certain they're good, preferably someone who goes to tournaments (excluding any online events) to practice the Olimar vs Luigi match-up. If you're interested, you can quote me and reply, but I'd much rather have you PM me.

I'd be down to play, haven't had much time to smash lately tho..

In which stage should I counterpick Pit?

pit is homo, I personally don't cp anything but neutrals, but I would suggest picking a small stage where it's difficult to go under the stage and/or camp the ledges which pits love to do. Yoshi's Island would probably be the best of the neutrals for that. For non-neutrals maybe I'd pick PS1 or frigate (metroid stage i think lol)

It's similar to MoonWalking in Melee...

Vist, I gotta play you again sometime

yeah man, definitely. You coming to the Brawl till you fall event up here in MD in march?

another question, I'm not sure about frame and invincible frames and all that technical stuff but I happened to watch this vid of jiggly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZYMyP4qRzI
and was wondering if you can do the same with fjp?
sex kick would probably work I think.

I don't know of any specific invincibility frames that luigi has during any of his attacks, even his up B so I'm not sure if this can be done with him. I'll have to look into it more...

What is the Shoryuken? I've heard so much about it but i dunno what it is >_<

this:

it's luigi's upb move. it can kill alot of ppl at low %s. and has some fire in it. people give it so many names we don't have a real name for it yet rofl. fiery upper cut, tiger upper cut, shoryuken, fire jump punch etc... most people get it from SF from Ken XD most ppl will fear luigi cuz of this move <3

So, would you guys say that Crawldashing is better or worst or the same than wavedashing?

wavedashing is better by far

 

[kigbariom]

I thought we hated DDD and he hated us.
You can't do that.

 

[TechnoMonster]

This man appears to be an expert.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Lawl well me as DDD main; i do not hate Luigi. Infact, i like his stupidness and how he fights is so awesome. I still have some questions about the Crawldashing. I've found this technique really awesome so far, and it works so good VS some players. Only, how exactly do you use this move. When i want to Crawldash, i first walk (duhh) then i press down and immidiatly afterthat i got with the Analog to the opposite side of how i stand. Is this okay? Because sometimes Luigi doesn't crawldash and instead i'm crawlsliding towards my opponent which is bad. I hope you guys can help me ^_^;

Really though, DDD isn't that bad. Luigi is a good Secondary for him right? How does Luigi do VS Olimar, Falco, Pika Pika and IC? I'd like to know please ^_^; And what are Luigi's worst match-ups so i can see if DDD can take those match ups. Thanks in advance ^_^

 

[kigbariom]

Luigi is Olimar's hardest matchup in their opinion. Luigi fairs, below average against Falco. Pika, average, and ICs, I'm pretty sure average if there is CG and such. But I'm not too sure about the last two.

For your first question
While walking forward, initiate a backward crawl and release. Can also be done while landing from a forward jump.
You character should slide backwards for a distance, depending on character and your release timing. During the slide, you can do any attack or action. Like a wave move or moon walking from melee.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Alright, so i've been trying to execute this move (crawldashing) and it seems to work when i'm facing that way ->

____________________B->______

________________E->__________

The B is Begin point. On how i'm facing. E means the end point when i crawldashed. Though, i can't make it the other way, like this.

___<-B_________________________


_______<-E_____________________


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Doesn't work with me. I can't crawldash to the right. I hope i showed it clearly for you guys. Is this even possible to Cralwdash to the right?

 

[Magus420]

I noticed that too. I thought maybe it was my controller or something. Looking at the backwards crawl itself by not releasing it when doing it you can see why it works, and he would get a very obvious increase in initial crawl speed when you walk right and crawl left. I couldn't get any more than the regular speed out of it on the backwards crawl when walking to the left, and with it no real crawldash to the right. Seems weird since I can really halfass it and still get it good when walking to the right, but wasn't able to get it to work the other way at all despite all attempts to mirror the inputs of the other one exactly.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Yes i had the same thing. So basically Crawldashing can only be executed when your facing the right. Meh, this makes it a little less viable i think. I would still use it, but it isn't as awesome as i thought it would be.

 

[skyace89]

yeah magus is right i thought maybe i was just ******** or something when i couldn't do it to the right...>_<

 

[zhao_guang]

It's not as useful for spacing, but it can still stop Luigi's low traction slide when you stop walking

 

[kigbariom]

Which is why it is very situational, one sided and you have to be close. But if the enemy doesn't expect it it works out well. I've been trying to implement it as an edge guarding technique, not exactly like spiking them off the stage, but moving around with crawldashing and being able to attack from that moving state.

 

[Voidwalker]

i have a question!
i've seen brawlers like boss use down b (luigi cyclone) as a recovery right after their side b and reached the edge this way. i thought it was only possible to rise with down b if u had jumped just before and use the momentum for the jump but boss did not jump until after the down b recovery so he could easely return to the stage. After hours of training i still don't see how this is possible. Can somebody please tell me how?
you can see boss premorfing this at 2:06 in this video and yet again at 5:47.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjVrS2-I1YU

thanks in advance ;D

if this is not the place to post it then please tell me where.

 

[crewster]

Don't wory this is the place.

Anyway, at 2:06 in that vid i think he did jump but then db'd imidiatly. You can db rize without momentom but it requires much finger spammin, that's what happened at 5:47.

 

[Voidwalker]

Don't wory this is the place.

Anyway, at 2:06 in that vid i think he did jump but then db'd imidiatly. You can db rize without momentom but it requires much finger spammin, that's what happened at 5:47.

ok thank you. but still i tried the rize without momentum and spammed as much as i could but he only went up about the size of luigi. in other words not much

 

[kigbariom]

If you are not using a momentum based rising cyclone, then it is all dependant on button mashing skill. When I do it, I have to turn the controller on its side then mash with my index finger. But it works.

 

[Voidwalker]

If you are not using a momentum based rising cyclone, then it is all dependant on button mashing skill. When I do it, I have to turn the controller on its side then mash with my index finger. But it works.

thanks buddy :D

 

[luke_atyeo]

ok so I'm going to a tourney in the next few days and I'm gonna try to only use wigi and not fall back on snake theres gonna be a pretty dangerous wolf player there, good use of tilts and smash, laser camping and bair walls, any anti wolf advice you guys can give me?
thanks in advance,
also for doubles I'm teaming my luigi with a good mario player, its a good combo that we do well with but what levels do you guys think are best for counter picking with this team?
cheers

edit- so I found this thread here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219691 about OOS FJP,
is there a trick to oos like having to jump and do your move before the jump animation, or can you just shield and then do the move (I guess you buffer it?)

 

[kirbywizard]

I have gotten to the point where my improvement with Luigi has just stopped
Main problem is I cant get my combos in to well thus I really can not nail a good up B, any help will be appreciated
I would upload videos but yeah no free sd card right now >_>

also what are some match ups I wanna avoid is luigi vs marth one

 

[kigbariom]

For many people Marth is a big Luigi issue, but the main problems are MK, DDD, and sometimes GaW/Snake.

 

[kirbywizard]

For many people Marth is a big Luigi issue, but the main problems are MK, DDD, and sometimes GaW/Snake.

I really dont have much of a problem with D3 or GW.
Just marth's sword kinda screws me over.

 

[Xivii]

Luigi "Combo" Help Requested:

What are a few things I can do after I trip an opponent with down tilt.
Is up-B kill possible?

 

[skyace89]

I would say the "safest" thing to do would be to D-smash. But i guess If you could read their roll you could shoryuken them....

 

[hippiedude92]

ok so I'm going to a tourney in the next few days and I'm gonna try to only use wigi and not fall back on snake theres gonna be a pretty dangerous wolf player there, good use of tilts and smash, laser camping and bair walls, any anti wolf advice you guys can give me?
thanks in advance,
also for doubles I'm teaming my luigi with a good mario player, its a good combo that we do well with but what levels do you guys think are best for counter picking with this team?
cheers

edit- so I found this thread here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219691 about OOS FJP,
is there a trick to oos like having to jump and do your move before the jump animation, or can you just shield and then do the move (I guess you buffer it?)

For wolf, to get past his bair walling, do alot of SHADs and buffered into tornados weaving in and out. From there, preceding comboing but when hes at a minimal distance, he will shine his way out to "combo breaker" you, that's when you shield. Look for all possible openings to get in because you don't want to be gtfo'd

I have gotten to the point where my improvement with Luigi has just stopped
Main problem is I cant get my combos in to well thus I really can not nail a good up B, any help will be appreciated
I would upload videos but yeah no free sd card right now >_>

also what are some match ups I wanna avoid is luigi vs marth one

There's always improvement for a luigi. Always get past your limitations. Have you gotten the full tornado w/o second jump by pure button mashing? If not work on that. You can work on other tidbits stuff like reading your enemy, learn how to powershield learn matchups better.

As for marth, SHAD with mixed in alot of buffering. Use fireballs in a intelligent manner. as you get inside, Dthrow him and juggle trap him, bait his airdodges and punish him.

Luigi "Combo" Help Requested:

What are a few things I can do after I trip an opponent with down tilt.
Is up-B kill possible?

Depends on the %, probably a dsmash is the safest if spaced correctly.or a Fsmash if their in the kill zone.

 

[kirbywizard]

Thank you very much, now I'm gonna hunt for some vids. Thanks V_V

 

[crewster]

Luigi "Combo" Help Requested:

What are a few things I can do after I trip an opponent with down tilt.
Is up-B kill possible?

You can do a d-smash.
You can do a downtilted f-smash.
You can do a normal f-smash if you're close enough.
You can do an FJP if you're close enough.
Everything else will miss.

The best is a d-smash because you can the followit up with a bair. and the ariels. If your opponent is above 60% then do a FJP. If they are above 90% or so then do a f-smash or down tilted fsmash. But below 60 use a d-smash.

I hope this helped.

 

[Xivii]

You can do a d-smash.
You can do a downtilted f-smash.
You can do a normal f-smash if you're close enough.
You can do an FJP if you're close enough.
Everything else will miss.

The best is a d-smash because you can the followit up with a bair. and the ariels. If your opponent is above 60% then do a FJP. If they are above 90% or so then do a f-smash or down tilted fsmash. But below 60 use a d-smash.

I hope this helped.

Thankyou that helps alot ^_^
I always felt I was wasting d-tilt but never sure of what I could do afterwards.

 

[crewster]

It's not the best move. It isn't that good. It's only usfull if it trips. I barely ever use it. Better to use other things. End of.

 

[kigbariom]

Wow, Crewster.... That post actually helped someone! :D

But yeah, those are the general follow ups, most commonly being UpB once past about 60% and a f-smash below 60%.
Any other way you draw it up is up to you, if you want to continue building damage if they are not dmaged enough, you can jab and grab, then d-throw, uair, nair... You know...

 

[crewster]

I am the best!!!
I can help!!!
I can not spam when I want to!!!
I am doing it again!!!

 

[Chaudgobay]

what are the best stages for lugi use to counterpick and why ?

i saw something about corneria but dunno how to use lugi properly there and want to know other opitions, but none of then must be some random stages (final, delfino, bf, smashvvile, yoshi, pokemon 1)

and want to konow our opinions about frigate, distant planet and skyworld

 

[crewster]

Cornaria works well. The low ceiling. The levles. and fin camping.

But other than that, the best is ones with lo ceilings because most of luigi's kills are off the top.

 

[Famous]

Delfino Plaza...enough said

 

[PolMex23]

Delfino Plaza...enough said

Dude remember me?

I had you in doubles pools =)

And we had some friendlies xD

Dude what up ...

An yes, Delphino is a amazing CP baby

 

[Famous]

Lol, I remember you...Yeah those friendlies with you and Vist were epic. I choked in the doubles pools but ***** in singles(kinda)...Are you going to BTYF? We can get some more friendlies in if you are.

[OFFTOPIC]I'm still not in the Luigi backroom =/

 

[PolMex23]

Cuz no1 knows u a good Weeg son...ill get you in xD

Just ask boss too lol =)

Im going to genesis....thats the only OOS tourney im going to for now probly bro

 

[Famous]

Lol, thank you.

Im trying to make it to that...Our plans to come down were set until some recent unfortunate events took place.

 

[PolMex23]

baby yall still got time lets do this...im so hyped

wait i think i was kicked out lol...

For being an ******* an talkin to much **** xD

lol ask boss now xD