Wario Character Matchup Discussion

[3GOD]

UPDATED 8/26/08 - I'll be working on some descriptions soon I hope.

Advantage Wario:
Captain Falcon: 80-20
Ganondorf: 80-20
Sonic: 80-20
Pokémon Trainer - Ivysaur: 75-25
Pokémon Trainer - Charizard: 70-30
Link: 70-30
Samus: 65-35
Bowser: 65-35
Fox: 65-35
Ike: 65-35
Jigglypuff: 65-35
Diddy Kong: 60-40
Lucario: 60-40
Mario: 60-40
Ness: 60-40
Pikachu: 60-40
Sheik: 60-40
Toon Link: 60-40
Wolf: 60-40
Zero Suit Samus: 60-40

Relatively Even:
Snake: 55-45
Ice Climbers: 55-45
Pit: 55-45
Pokémon Trainer - Squirtle: 55-45
Donkey Kong: 55-45
Kirby: 50-50
Lucas: 50-50
Peach: 50-50
Wario: 50-50
Yoshi: 45-55
Olimar: 45-55

Advantage Opponent:
Falco: 40-60
ROB: 40-60
Meta Knight: 40-60
Mr. Game & Watch: 40-60
Zelda: 35-65
Luigi: 35-65
Marth: 30-70
King Dedede: 25-75

I appreciate any feedback and discussion about the individual matches.

 

[Browny]

i wouldnt put wario at an advantage to lucario.

Warios very good aerials are all outranged and outprioritized by lucarios (disjointed hitboxes) and wario has nothing to stop aura spheres. and i think he is very good versus squirtle. squirtles strength is in the air and aerial combos, but wario is the master of escaping aerial combos, and can punish squirtle bigtime for even trying it

 

[PhantomX]

The only thing that gives any trouble vs. Lucario when you play Wario is the Down Air... but you can move out of the way of that with ease.

I think Wario should be + vs. Wario, obv.

Oh, and just so you know, Wario vs. Luigi is like a ------ for Wario... Luigi literally outprioritizes him in every move, especially in the air. Fortunately Wario can kill him at considerably low percents.

I always found I've been = w/ Falcos and Foxes, they don't have anything particularly dangerous that Wario can't get through our outprioritize, and their lasers are easily blocked by the bike.

Wario is + vs. Lucas and Ness. Not only does he outspeed them in movement, it's pretty easy to combo them, and dodge their moves (as they're easy to see coming), and it's also pretty **** easy to gimp them, either by ledgegrabbing or by pulling out the bike when they PK Thunder (I've only done this to Ness, not sure if Lucas' would go through the bike or not).

Mario is probably in Warios favor, I've never had anything to worry about with them, and the Fludd is pretty much a joke to Wario.

Peach I'd say is about even. Her turnips are kinda meh, but you can always airdodge to grab them, her aerials are a bit annoying and have more priority than yours, but you can always air dodge through her and punish pretty hard, since they have a lot more lag than Luigi's (at least the F-air).

Pikachu doesn't give me much trouble... fortunately Wario's DI is good enough to where you should never get hit by a Down Smash + Thunder combo (they love those -_-). Easy to bite, b/c a lot of their moves involve jumping into you.

Yoshi is easy easy easy. If he rolls, you bit him out of it. Sure you can't gimp him, but Yoshi dies pretty early to forward smashes. On top of that, Yoshi's aerials are pretty meh, and your down air will usually stop anything he's planning (or neutral air, if you like).

Zelda I personally have a hard time with... though not regular Zeldas... just those that spam the upsmash all the time. I personally like to spotdodge and then smash or attack, but the upsmash lasts long enough for you to spotdodge and not get hit... on top of that, it also stops your aerials (any of them) in their tracks, and kills you pretty quickly. You can't exactly be patient either, b/c then they'll spam Din's Fire, which you can't block w/ your bike since it's an explosive projectile -_-

ZSS I find to be pretty easy. She dies at low percents, and most of her moves come out slow enough to avoid (at least the killers).

All the remaining swordies is a - for Wario, except for maybe Link, b/c his jumping is really terrible, so you can gimp him pretty easily. As has been said... Wario doesn't take too kindly to disjointed hitboxes. Only reason I agree with your Olimar thing is because if you pressure the Olimar enough they won't be able to spam pikmin through and will lose their pikmin pretty fast, plus he's hella easy to gimp.

 

[Dark Crimson]

Yeah Lucario is pretty bad against Wario, mostly because of Wario's speed. If he's in the fray, Lucario's screwed.

 

[Higgy]

Pit is hard for me. He has better range (who doesnt but still), less lag time on most moves, spammable arrows to mess with aerial approaches, and he can't be edge gimped very easily.

 

[Tin]

i wouldnt put wario at an advantage to lucario.

Warios very good aerials are all outranged and outprioritized by lucarios (disjointed hitboxes) and wario has nothing to stop aura spheres. and i think he is very good versus squirtle. squirtles strength is in the air and aerial combos, but wario is the master of escaping aerial combos, and can punish squirtle bigtime for even trying it

Agree, and disagree.

Lucario: Lucario's range is too much for Wario when he's at a high percentage, I would say that the match up tips in Lucario's favor when he's pumped up. BUT, as long as you get the first kill, you are in good shape. Did you know that it sometimes take Lucario two hits to deal 1% when he is fresh? I lol'd.

Pokemon Trainer: I would say Squirtle is hard for Wario. Surprisingly, he can outmatch Wario in the air, especially with that WoP technique. When I fight Squirtles, I just try to kill it ASAP, Dair to Fsmash, etc. Squirtle is really annoying. Ivysaur? uh...just **** Ivysaur, lol, Dair him to death. Ivysaur doesn't have any insane "breakout" moves so you can just chain Dairs on him. Ivysaur's range shouldn't be too much of a problem either, once you penetrate his vines, be tenacious and don't let go. Then edge-guard, done. Don't know much about about Charizard. This is just based on my limited experience with PT, so feel free to correct me.

Ike: Ike should not be a problem as long as you stay on the offensive all the time, you should with Wario anyway, who are you gonna camp? If you let Ike initiate the attack, you will be at 50% before you know it. Tight aerial control is important in this match, amazing spacing is pretty much a requirement in this match up. Weave in and out when you do your aerials or else the Ike will Jab out of shield, and we all know how amazing that Jab is. Be careful with your air dodges/side steps because Ike's attacks are slower than most, so watch your timing. When Ike is recovering with SideB, go out there and get hit, you take some damage and he dies. If he is above the stage, go out and attempt to edge-guard. If he is below the stage however, DO NOT go out because Aether will completely screw you over because it can interrupt your recovery or meteor you. When the Ike is on the ledge, don't even bother standing near him, he will Aether stall you and it's free damage for him. Of course, if you're hardcore, you can take advantage of part of his recovery where his SA isn't activated, but I wouldn't recommend it. Just play it a safe ledgegame despite Wario's amazing recovery. Other than that, just treat him like every other fat/heavy character.

Marth: Marth is hard. His moves are ridiculously fast, I mean wtf. One move you should spam intelligently in this match up is Ftilt as it's the only move in your arsenal that can reach Marth. And it kills at around 120%, so use it. I would recommend playing a defensive game against Marth because you can take advantage of the tiny lag in his movements after his attacks. If the Marth likes to double Fair, attack right after his second Fairs finished/before he lands because you are safe from any retaliation. Be quick or eat an Fsmash. Also, if the Marth ledgehops and fast fall inappropriately, there can be a moment where he suffers from this awkward lag, so keep and eye out for that and punish. When you get hit by any of Marth's moves, DI UP AND AWAY. Don't think you can DI into him and then possibly Nair or fart on him. It's not gonna happen because most of Marth's moves are pretty lagless. Don't be stubborn, just DI Up and away, even if it's away the stage, your amazing recovery will help you recover anyway. Trust me. As for recovering, recover ABOVE the stage, Marth's aggressive edge guards can't reach up top, I mean, UpAir can but you can just airdodge on your way down. Now on to Marth's recovery, when he's trying to UpB, time your invisibility frame and edgehog, done. Do take into account that Marth hovers at the ledge for about 2 seconds before falling, so DO NOT get up or roll up because he will grab the ledge. This is not Melee if you didn't get hit by his UpB edge hogging, you're safe, just stay there until his death is confirmed.

Metaknight: This match up is really annoying, be calm and don't rush into things and you'll be fine...kinda. Treat Metaknight like a Marth, DI up and away all his moves, be defensive when necessary, look for those tiny openings for attacks because Metaknight is pretty lagless himself. Don't even try to edgeguard this guy, just wait for him and attempt to punish. Metaknight shouldn't be TOO hard because of his lightness. Again, F-tilt is your friend here.

Pit: Pit isn't too bad. If he spams arrows, dash and shield to approach, or Wheelie. His range is *** so it shouldn't be too much trouble. When he's under you, just air dodge, your Dair can't hit through his UpAir. And that's pretty much it on Pit for me, I don't have too much trouble with Pit. Farting for edgeguard is pretty good, if he's below the stage, drop and fart. If he's gliding, jump and hit him with the Bike because he might Glide attack (which kills at surprisingly low percentages so watch out). Shouldn't have too much trouble against Pit.

Snake: Treat snake like an Ike with explosives. Weave in and out of your aerials because HIS FORWARD TILT AND JABS ARE AMAZING. His UpTilt is amazing too, watch out for it's deceptive range. Seriously. And duh, be mindful of his explosives. Other than that, just overwhelm him with your attacks because he doesn't have any "breakout" moves to interrupt your chain of Dair.

Peach: Peach is hard if she's playing defensively/campy. Her turnip spamming will overwhelm you if you can't deal with it correctly. Either catch it or dash-shield it, but that's dangerous because Peach can grab and "combo" you. If you're above Peach on a platform, get down immediately because her tilts will pretty much cover the whole platform (i.e. Lylat, Battlefield, Smashville if timed correctly). Don't have much to say about her aerials, so someone can fill me in on that. Be aggressive but be patient, punish her recovery because it's lame now. And she's light too, easy to kill.

Sonic: Based on my experience alone, Sonic is a joke. He's light while you're fat. He can't kill while you demolish with Fsmash, which means his only option is to gimp, and you'd have to be in a REALLY bad position to get gimped with Wario's amazing recovery. Bite is the move to use here, it will stop almost all of Sonic's B moves. Just treat him like every other light weight, but a very annoying one. His aerials slightly out ranges yours though, but just Dair, lol.

DeeDeeDee: Big, fat, slow. Eat him up. Most of his attacks are slow as hell so just overwhelm him. If you don't get chaingrabbed, you win. Aerial him to hell, make sure you weave in and out though or else you will be grabbed. His spamming shouldn't be too bad, it's slow and predictable, just avoid them because there is no point in eating them. When he's recovering, jump out and Fair to Nair before he UpBs, every little push counts. Personally, I would go for vertical kills than horizontal kills in this match up. Just don't get grabbed, it's not that hard, play a really tight game. THINK.

I'll edit in more if I have anything else to add later.

 

[3GOD]

Lucario: Lucario's range is too much for Wario when he's at a high percentage, I would say that the match up tips in Lucario's favor when he's pumped up. BUT, as long as you get the first kill, you are in good shape. Did you know that it sometimes take Lucario two hits to deal 1% when he is fresh? I lol'd.

I do not have much Lucario experience, but I was mainly basing my opinion on a couple of factors. Firstly, Wario is heavy and nearly ungimpable. Secondly, Lucario is fairly light and can be edgehogged/gimped by Wario. Basically I think this sums up the matchup. Sure, Wario is outranged, but he can manage to get inside just fine (at least I've been able to vs. Lucario). This match really comes down to the fact that Lucario struggles to KO Wario while Wario can KO Lucario much earlier in general.

Pokemon Trainer: I would say Squirtle is hard for Wario. Surprisingly, he can outmatch Wario in the air, especially with that WoP technique. When I fight Squirtles, I just try to kill it ASAP, Dair to Fsmash, etc. Squirtle is really annoying. Ivysaur? uh...just **** Ivysaur, lol, Dair him to death. Ivysaur doesn't have any insane "breakout" moves so you can just chain Dairs on him. Ivysaur's range shouldn't be too much of a problem either, once you penetrate his vines, be tenacious and don't let go. Then edge-guard, done. Don't know much about about Charizard. This is just based on my limited experience with PT, so feel free to correct me.

I think you've pretty much nailed the Squirtle and Ivysaur matchups. Squirtle is small and squirrelly - very difficult to play against in my opinion. Ivysaur can't really do much but spam Bairs and razor leaves in attempt to keep Wario at bay, but when Wario gets inside, it's bad news for Ivysaur. Also, Wario gimps Ivy HARD. The reason I put the match as (=) is that I personally have trouble getting through the Bair and razor leaves, but maybe it should be (+) instead? Charizard is a heavy hitter with some range, but you can play him a lot like you would Ike. One thing to watch out for is his amazing grab range - if they are shielding, use the Bite!

Ike: Ike should not be a problem...

Good summation. Ike isn't too bad, but you gotta be careful because he's powerful and his Up+B can take you out off the edge.

Marth: Marth is hard.....Now on to Marth's recovery, when he's trying to UpB, time your invisibility frame and edgehog, done. Do take into account that Marth hovers at the ledge for about 2 seconds before falling, so DO NOT get up or roll up because he will grab the ledge. This is not Melee if you didn't get hit by his UpB edge hogging, you're safe, just stay there until his death is confirmed.

Yes, Marth is a very tough matchup. Good advice about the edgehogging.

Metaknight: This match up is really annoying, be calm and don't rush into things and you'll be fine...kinda. Treat Metaknight like a Marth, DI up and away all his moves, be defensive when necessary, look for those tiny openings for attacks because Metaknight is pretty lagless himself. Don't even try to edgeguard this guy, just wait for him and attempt to punish. Metaknight shouldn't be TOO hard because of his lightness. Again, F-tilt is your friend here.

I think this is one of Wario's tougher matches. Yes Metaknight is light, but he can really rack up the damage with his aerials. His tornado is ridiculous, and he is small to top it off. Ftilt can help some, but it's too slow vs. Metaknight most of the time.

Pit: Pit isn't too bad. If he spams arrows, dash and shield to approach, or Wheelie. His range is *** so it shouldn't be too much trouble. When he's under you, just air dodge, your Dair can't hit through his UpAir. And that's pretty much it on Pit for me, I don't have too much trouble with Pit. Farting for edgeguard is pretty good, if he's below the stage, drop and fart. If he's gliding, jump and hit him with the Bike because he might Glide attack (which kills at surprisingly low percentages so watch out). Shouldn't have too much trouble against Pit.

Actually, I haven't really played a great Pit, but I think he's a little overrated. His arrows are good and his recovery is amazing as well, but in close quarters, I think Wario is better. Possibly an (=) match?

Snake: Treat snake like an Ike with explosives. Weave in and out of your aerials because HIS FORWARD TILT AND JABS ARE AMAZING. His UpTilt is amazing too, watch out for it's deceptive range. Seriously. And duh, be mindful of his explosives. Other than that, just overwhelm him with your attacks because he doesn't have any "breakout" moves to interrupt your chain of Dair.

I find that Wario's aerial movement is great at avoiding Snake's explosives, and once he gets inside, he can really overwhelm Snake. As you mentioned, Snake's Ftilt is amazing, but should be avoidable for the most part. Also, Wario can gimp Snake fairly well, especially if Snake ends up below the stage. Just a point of interest that will rarely be useful - Wario can Bite Snake's Up+B and ruin his recovery, but Snake's will rarely come up near the edge.

Peach: Peach is hard if she's playing defensively/campy. Her turnip spamming will overwhelm you if you can't deal with it correctly. Either catch it or dash-shield it, but that's dangerous because Peach can grab and "combo" you. If you're above Peach on a platform, get down immediately because her tilts will pretty much cover the whole platform (i.e. Lylat, Battlefield, Smashville if timed correctly). Don't have much to say about her aerials, so someone can fill me in on that. Be aggressive but be patient, punish her recovery because it's lame now. And she's light too, easy to kill.

I think I've literally played zero peaches, so I'll take your word on this one. (+), (-), or (=)?

Sonic: Based on my experience alone, Sonic is a joke...

Yes, Sonic is a joke...the end.

DeeDeeDee: Big, fat, slow. Eat him up. Most of his attacks are slow as hell so just overwhelm him. If you don't get chaingrabbed, you win. Aerial him to hell, make sure you weave in and out though or else you will be grabbed. His spamming shouldn't be too bad, it's slow and predictable, just avoid them because there is no point in eating them. When he's recovering, jump out and Fair to Nair before he UpBs, every little push counts. Personally, I would go for vertical kills than horizontal kills in this match up. Just don't get grabbed, it's not that hard, play a really tight game. THINK.

Even if you get grabbed, it's not game over for Wario - the chain throw will end at the edge of the stage, and then you recover and continue the fight. Of course, it's not a good idea to get grabbed since it will rack up damage, but it will rarely lead to a KO. Seems Wario just does really well vs. big, slow characters.

 

[Colten]

Any tips on ROB? With his projectiles and his D-smash?​

 

[PhantomX]

ROBs only troublesome projectile is his laser. The gyro you can eat to make it a non factor. The biggest issue I have with good ROBs is that they can gimp you so easily it isn't even funny... all they gotta do is boost after you and F-Air you off your bike. Best way to avoid the downsmash is honestly to bite. ROBs love to spotdodge then downsmash... your Bite lasts through the spotdodge and will get them before they can smash you. The rest is just good dodging and timing, b/c their aerials outprioritize yours :\

 

[3GOD]

Any tips on ROB? With his projectiles and his D-smash?​

As mentioned above, the Bite will stop spot-dodging -> Dsmash. The big issue vs ROB is his laser in combination with his Nair. The laser slows/limits your approach a lot, and the Nair has ridiculous range and shield stun with no lag. ROB can pretty much just stand there and Nair if you get too close. If you shield/dodge it, expect to be tilted or Dsmashed. This "brickwall" ROB tactic is probably one of the toughest issues for Wario to solve. I need more practice to find ways through, but I think it's just going to be a hard match for Wario.

 

[handsockpuppet]

DeeDeeDee: Big, fat, slow. Eat him up. Most of his attacks are slow as hell so just overwhelm him. If you don't get chaingrabbed, you win. Aerial him to hell, make sure you weave in and out though or else you will be grabbed. His spamming shouldn't be too bad, it's slow and predictable, just avoid them because there is no point in eating them. When he's recovering, jump out and Fair to Nair before he UpBs, every little push counts. Personally, I would go for vertical kills than horizontal kills in this match up. Just don't get grabbed, it's not that hard, play a really tight game. THINK.

let's see...what does DDD have over Wario...
1) amazing range. he'll cream you with his mallet.
2) amazing edgeguarding. a good DDD can bair you to death at low percentages.
3) out-aerial. DDD Dair=Wario's Dair. DDD's Bair>>>>>Wario's Bair. DDD's Fair>Wario's Fair (less combo-able but MUCH stronger and more range). DDD's Uair<Wario's Uair (i'll give him that). DDD's Nair>Wario's Nair (more range).
4) recovery. Not only is he heavy, making upward kills tougher, but also he's got an impossibly awesome recovery.
5) A grab that can completely destroy you. it's kinda hard to dodge a grab for a whole match, BTW.
6) a recovery that's almost impossible to edgeguard, considering the fact he can out-aerial you and his up-B is a spike.

Even if you get grabbed, it's not game over for Wario - the chain throw will end at the edge of the stage, and then you recover and continue the fight. Of course, it's not a good idea to get grabbed since it will rack up damage, but it will rarely lead to a KO. Seems Wario just does really well vs. big, slow characters.

yes, the grab is that great. even at the edge, he can Fthrow and start using Bairs. and what makes you think he's slow?

 

[DMG]

I'll try to add my input for some of the ? matchups and for the ones I know the most about.

Dedede needs to be either = or - for Wario (personally I would say it's - but opinions differ).
Lucario is a + and Diddy Kong should be a + if you can catch/pick up his banana's.
Lucas, Mario, Yoshi, Ness, and Link are a +. Other than Link, they don't have much to stop you from getting close and pressuring/hitting them.
Luigi and Zelda are either = or +. I don't have too much trouble with them and Din's Fire is almost always easy to avoid.
Falco is probably = or possibly -. Idk about Fox; some people say Fox does better, some say Wario does better.
Toon Link is either - or =.

I was surprised no one mentioned that Wario can approach people like Marth and Metaknight with SH Airdodges and try to pressure them on the inside. I'm not saying that it will work every time or that it is foolproof but it can make the fight a lot closer to being even. Even with that I would still consider them as - for Wario.

Hopefully we can get some more input from people other than Wario mains to help level out the bias factor.

Edit: I also main Wario so sorry if I look biased towards him on some of those match ups.

 

[Tin]

let's see...what does DDD have over Wario...
1) amazing range. he'll cream you with his mallet.
2) amazing edgeguarding. a good DDD can bair you to death at low percentages.
3) out-aerial. DDD Dair=Wario's Dair. DDD's Bair>>>>>Wario's Bair. DDD's Fair>Wario's Fair (less combo-able but MUCH stronger and more range). DDD's Uair<Wario's Uair (i'll give him that). DDD's Nair>Wario's Nair (more range).
4) recovery. Not only is he heavy, making upward kills tougher, but also he's got an impossibly awesome recovery.
5) A grab that can completely destroy you. it's kinda hard to dodge a grab for a whole match, BTW.
6) a recovery that's almost impossible to edgeguard, considering the fact he can out-aerial you and his up-B is a spike.

He is slow, is he not? Ever try DI away from his Bair? Sure he can chain them, but if you DI away or even down, he won't hit you more than twice, then use your recovery to get back on the stage. DDD can't gimp Wario like he can with other characters. If you save your bike and your second jump, you should NEVER have a problem getting back on the stage.

The only situation where I can imagine a grab completely destroying me is on a stage with wall where DDD can infinite, like one of Delphino's phase. Okay so he grabs you, then attempts to chain grab. What's keeping you from DI-ing away from his grab and towards the ledge? The damages from his grabs alone aren't that big of a deal, DDD isn't Ice Climbers.

And amazing range? Who are you comparing DDD to here...Marth? No, this is Wario, who doesn't have more range than him. Okay, so DDD's Dair has more range than Wario's Dair, are you gonna rush DDD with your Dair when he's Dairing at the same time? What about Fair? Are you gonna do the same? Don't forget to compare Wario's speed to DDD's attacking speed. Wario's aerial control is one of the best in this game, how hard is it to bait DDD into using a laggy move and punish. Have you ever try chaining Dair on DDD before? His fat *** is such an easy target that dealing 20%+ isn't too challenging.

As for his recovery, I never said it was bad, but it is very predictable. His jumping pattern before his UpB is almost like a watered-down version of Jigglypuff's. How far can it stray from your prediction? Just go out there and nudge him a little with your Fair, sure it won't kill but it will put him in an uncomfortable position, yeah?

And okay, he's heavy with a really good recovery, isn't killing up top a lot better than killing to the side? I don't see your point here.

 

[dinhotheone]

about lucario: so many just love to throw aura sphere, just bike, his ftilt is his only ground move which has range+speed. his aerias may out prioritize you in the air, but he cant move like you can. idk, ive never had trouble with them, ive faced several but never lost.

 

[Browny]

I do not have much Lucario experience, but I was mainly basing my opinion on a couple of factors. Firstly, Wario is heavy and nearly ungimpable. Secondly, Lucario is fairly light and can be edgehogged/gimped by Wario. Basically I think this sums up the matchup. Sure, Wario is outranged, but he can manage to get inside just fine (at least I've been able to vs. Lucario). This match really comes down to the fact that Lucario struggles to KO Wario while Wario can KO Lucario much earlier in general.

lucario isnt lightweight, hes above average and he has strangely high horizontal knockback resistance. His recovery is ungimpable to anyone without a projectile since all of his aerials have huge range, almost as high as marths and he floats around even more so than wario, and charging an aura sphere as you recover screws any potential intercepts for everyone without a reflector.

i wouldnt say wario has an easier time killing lucario. as long as lucario stays airborne with short hops, he is basically unkillable to anyone without a powerful upsmash/tilt or aerial. since warios upsmash is quite bad, and his aerials are all outranged his kill moves are really limited. at the same time lucario can keep on charging aura spheres while in the air, and those things can easily kill at around 100%

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I have to really disagree about D3 having a disadvantage to wario. If the ddd player is good you won't be able to do anything, your edgegaurd game is basically absent until high high percents, and its troublesome to punish his b-up (He can just go for the ledge)

Sure, its a pretty good match if you don't get grabbed, but when in hell was that easy in brawl? Wario's dair and fair are known for messing around with shields, but DDD's shield grab range is very deceptive. Theres DDD's edgegaurd game vs wario now, and hes one of those characters that rival warios recovery. He'll just go down there and aim high with bairs and gimp your motorcycle. He has a ton of disjointed hitboxes that aren't in favor of wario either (uair, dair, fair) And makes a hit and run game harder for wario. Wario's kill moves are hurt by the fact that DDD is heavy and somewhat fast.

The worst part about the matchup is the goons, ANOTHER thing to worry about during the match. Sure, wario can eat them, but the little eat animation can be easily punished by D3. DDD also runs faster than wario, and that means that he can chase after your rolldodge if he messes up a chaingrab or some other reason along those lines. I don't know what DDD players you guys play, but I'm sure as hell its hard to take a game off of a experienced D3. Your only hope to pressure DDD just a bit is the chomp, and the small combo game you have on ddd that you can take advantage of because he's not shield grabbing you for some reason.

Lucario's air game isn't any better than Wario's, but against wario lucario beats him in the air because of higher priority. Dair for both characters absolutely **** each other respectively. Wario has a nice edgegame on lucario, just hang on ledge and wait for him to get on the stage and then fsmash/waft. I would put the match at even imo.

 

[Warlock*G]

Sandbag - - -: Sandbag is a bad mofo. I mean, no matter how far you knock him, he'll never die, gazing at you with those two *evil* eyes, secretly plotting your downfall...

Plus, each time you eat him up or gimp him, he respawns!

Ban Sandbag! Ban him to hell!

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I know right? Whenever I bite him, he just respawns for some reason!! What other character can do that?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Peach can mean trouble for Wario if turnips are abused a lot. Plus, her attacks have less lag time than most of Wario's moves. Try to execute an f-tilt or u-tilt, she'll just smack you with her own basic moves, stopping those moves cold. Plus, Wario's attacks usually require him to get real close to his opponents, and seeing as they're pretty laggy, Wario is always in danger of getting grabbed at.

When trying to recover, Wario needs to beware of Peach's aerials since almost all of them are quite nasty. Plus, there's also that devastating u-smash to beware of too. If Wario is over 100% damage, that attack is almost certain to take him out of the ball game.

Seeing as Wario is a close combat type of fighter, he's not gonna have it easy when fighting a defensive Peach. If he were Wario-Man however, that would be a different story.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Peach can mean trouble for Wario if turnips are abused a lot. Plus, her attacks have less lag time than most of Wario's moves. Try to execute an f-tilt or u-tilt, she'll just smack you with her own basic moves, stopping those moves cold. Plus, Wario's attacks usually require him to get real close to his opponents, and seeing as they're pretty laggy, Wario is always in danger of getting grabbed at.

When trying to recover, Wario needs to beware of Peach's aerials since almost all of them are quite nasty. Plus, there's also that devastating u-smash to beware of too. If Wario is over 100% damage, that attack is almost certain to take him out of the ball game.

Seeing as Wario is a close combat type of fighter, he's not gonna have it easy when fighting a defensive Peach. If he were Wario-Man however, that would be a different story.

I think im going to throw up. While you play lvl 9 Wario's all the time and win with Peach (I play REAL opponents) I lose using most of time using Peach. Turnips can be easily caught in this game OR eaten by Wario. True they have less lag, and in a matchup, Peach will most likely ALWAYS have less % than Wario (like 70% for Peach, and 110% for Wario)

Lol, I NEVER get hit by Peach Upsmash, again, your CPU opponent (or really sucky friend)
The only way Peach can kill Wario is with a lucky Fsmash at 170%, or Fair at 150% at the edge of the stage.

Wario air movement makes it so he's IMPOSSIBLE to edge guard. Seriously, if you play CPU's, I know what you mean, they just stand there. (Landing PK Flash on them has never been so easy) However, Wario's amazing air movement in his 2 jump allow him to get to the stage 75% of the time. Peach is terrible in the air now. Why? She lost her double jump, meaning, chasing oppenents in the air is dangerous, her new Double jump for me is her Up B. (thats utterly pathetic) That means, you NEVER chase characters like Falco or Ness in the air using Peach, you'll not only get spike, you'll get humiliated. With Wario it's similar, he may lack a spike, but he can easily abuse his down air to rack up the damage.

Lastly, Peach is really light. Wario can easily kill her her at 100% with his Fmash, and Uair.
and his 3rd secret killer, the waft. The third strongest kill move in the game (behind PK flash and PKT2) LOL FULL WAFT TAKES 2 MINUTES, WARIO CAN KO HIMSELF! That full waft sucks. It really does. It does alot of damage yes, but you cannot use it in the air, or you will die. The half waft, can KO you at 70% (or 60% for Peach sake) at any unexpected time. And since Wario is not glowing, this move will always surprise the opponent.

Peach cannot WILL not beat Wario. It's close to impossible. IF she had 2 reliable killers (ones that can kill at 110 or 100) She may have a chance, wait if she had a double jump, she may have chance, but she doesn't. She has neither of the 2, making her a bad character overall.

PS: Why bring Final Smash into competive play?

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

PS: Why bring Final Smash into competive play?

Lol, who said this guy played competitively

 

[Blue sHell]

Matchups

Good Idea on the thread. Good stuff. I've fought a alot of different characters mastered by their players, so I'll spit out my opinion on the manner.

The way I'm doing this, just in case you guys aren't familiar with it, is giving both people in the matchup(wario and the other person) numbers. The numbers always have to add up to 10 though. It will measure how bad or good the matchup is on Wario's favor. Know that Wario is always the first number.


Bowser + 7-3
Obvious. Bowser has such an extremely hard time with Wario.

Captain Falcon + 8-2
Because he doesn't have any reliable aerials, he's forced to always airdodge to get away from things and it makes it one dimensional and very easy to keep preasure on him

Diddy Kong + 6-4
Wario takes away all his bannana game, kills Wario very slowly, and Wario still has absolutely everything vs him. His aerial priority is something to deal with though.

DK= 5-5
Not easy, not hard. Good DKs aren't something to mess with. It's a fairly even battle really.

Falco- 3-7
Falco camping is the only camping that Wario should have trouble with. If the Falco double lasers correctly, the last bullet will always hit you in the face. So he could just camp of course. "Just bike then". No... because when falco is done double lasering he has no lag at all upon landing, so he could always evade or shield your bike and put you at the disadvantage again. Try to approach and fall for easy stopping tactics that Falco is known for. Really, if you don't believe me, check it out yourself and look for a good Falco.

Fox= 6-4
Slight.

Ganondorf + 9-1
Yea...

Ice Climbers + 6-4
Waaaay too easy to keep preasure on. ICs feel like Wario's always on their *** and they can't do much about him seperating them every four seconds with Dair.

Ike+ 6-4
Slight advantage. Not huge. Nothing big at all. I'd give it a 6-4 balance(leaning torward Wario). Ike falls for several combos but nothing too drastic.

Jigglypuff + 7-3
Jiggly has such a hard time keeping up with Wario in the air. I've been told after playing a good Jiggly that the match felt almost impossible.

DDD= 5-5
Definitely even. Good DDDs know whats up in this matchup and they don't have much to be afraid of. Sure they fall for some combos, but really he has ALOT vs Wario too. Be wary, its not an easy battle

Kirby- 4-6
Surprised? Wario has no Fair game vs Kirby, can't approach him too well after air combos once the kirby learns how scary his DownB is, and Kirby has some throw combos that rack up about 40% on Wario at low dmg. SD, MLGs best Kirby right now showed me two grab combos vs Wario that wreck him bad. Maybe I'm wrong, but the matchup vs really good kirbys is more hard than it is easy.

Link + 7-3
No projectile game, barely. And that means alot for link. Very punishable and comboable.

Lucario + 6-4
Aura spheres aren't very effective and its very easy to get in his comfort zone. Lucario has the best side dodge in the game, but Wario has the best air mobility. So really, changing your mind about where to go midair and still attacking a rolling Lucario, isn't hard. Not a huge advantage though.

Lucas- 3-7
BAD. BAD MATCHUP. Play Mekos gamebattles #3 at the moment and you'll understand. Well played Lucas's know that vs Wario its all about baiting with Nairs and then PK firing, forward smashing, or grabbing. None of Wario's aerials could go through his Nair so you have to wait for the move to be done, but Lucas has good aerial mobility too so he will retreat and still have the edge after he's done. A Lucas that knows this matchup will abuse his nair, pk fire baiting, and forward smash so bad that its terrible. I've beaten every single Lucas I've fought. But once I fight Mekos's(who knows Wario's priority and range are so bad), you're more than boned. I'm not kidding guys. Extremely bad matchup.

Luigi- 4-6
Slight. But disadvantage. All of Luigi's aerials out prioritize Wario's. And he could do two in ne short hop and still have nearly no lag upon landing afterward so if he spaces his nairs right, you cant shieldgrab him. You have to play a more defensive game vs good Luigi's and always be wary of his tornado that will stop EVERYTHING(even bike) except ftilt and fsmash. Nothing too extreme though. But the disadvantage is felt during the battle. And the advantage is felt by the good Luigi.

Mario? ?-?
No idea lol.

Marth= 5-5
Lol? Knowing how to play against a great Marth gets some getting use to because Wario has to play so differently vs him. Know that forwardsmash is always on your list of things to punish with in this battle, and practically live in your shield. But other than that, really, its not as bad as we all once thought. Not at all. Pretty even. Hope you guys grow to understand why too.

Meta Knight - 4-6
Not too bad. But certainly not easy. Utilize that airdodge and that shield well and know how to counter pesky B moves and it makes the matchup alot easier. It's not really too bad actually. But it'd be stupid to say that its even.

Mr. Game & Watch - 3-7
Bad :embarrass Game & Watch is a literal wall of priority, and his fair and bair range is huge, and the moves last a long time. And shielding wont work very well either. What to do? Airdodge alot. Retreat alot. Don't get baited by Dairs. And play your heart out. Not easy.

Ness + 6-4
Another case of, just too much preasure for him to handle. Even though Ness has some extremely high priority moves, they dont mean much if your riding him 24/7.

Peach+ 7-3
Not bad. Learn her tactics, then you'll always know what to do. Not as easy of a matchup as first anticipated though.

Pikachu + 6-4
Bite owns so many of Pikachu's evasive strategies. And overall the little rat has a fairly hard time killing our lovely fat man. I've played lots and lots of Pikas.

Olimar= 5-5
Even. Fun actually. Really fun. Battle of the minds right here. Know that at any moment % means nothing. Wario could be at 160% and Olimar could be at 55% and you will both be in serious danger of dieing already.

Pit = 5-5
Airdodge is your friend, up close and from far away. Don't feel like going into detail. Pits moves last long'ish. Wario is very good at punishing. But Pit is also, in fact, a douche.

Pokémon Trainer: Squirtle + 6-4
Pokémon Trainer: Ivysaur + 7-3
Pokémon Trainer: Charizard = 5-5
Squirtle has a hard time killing him, Ivysaur gets edgegaurded disgustingly + gets overwhelmed up close. Charizard has a very nice keep away, but gets caught in combos that are almost funny.

ROB+ 6-4
ROBs HATE good Wario's. Becaue ROB has no aerials except his fair that come out fast, if he's above you he'll always have to either retreat or airdodge, if you predict his movements you could juggle ROB with just upairs for a while. Also, Bite ***** his tanky strategies. Never ever use Bike to stop Rob's projectiles or approaches, and always keep bite handy, and you got this match won.


Samus + 6-4
Air mobility > Samus's keep away. Not too much though don't get cocky.

Sheik +6-4
There is a special kind of irony in combo'ing Shiek silly like Wario does. Its pretty delicious really.

Snake +6-4
GIMPTASTIC. Avoid that over prioritzed Ftilt at all costs and itll make the matchup in Wario's favor if you get him off the ledge. Snake fears Wario's gimp very much.

Sonic +8-2
I hope you guys know by now how bad this matchup is for him...

Toon Link = 5-5
Too even to call. I'll have to look more into this matchup.

Wario= 9000-9000
Mmmmhmm.

Wolf = 5-5
Good Wolves will take full advantage of Wolf Wall and auto canceled fairs. Pro Wolf players are never vulnurable unless they go in for a hard hit. So its very hard to punish him. But also thankfully Wario has some very nice combos and chain/tech chases vs Wolf. Bike helps alot too.

Yoshi: Depends/ + or - 0-10 or 6-4
Yoshi, has an infinite vs Wario. I'm not going to say it on these boards. Because I never want that garbage being done on a regular basis. But really. One grab means you already lost. And its a slow slow painfull death. BUT if you ban that infinite the matchup turns to Wario's side. Know that if its an anything goes match though, that the Infinite is the worst thing in the game to fall for. If you guys want to know what it is I'll tell you, but lets hope the Yoshi boards don't read the Wario forum then. They might know it already, maybe, but I don't feel like opening another page to check if they do.

Zelda = 5-5
Shield Dashing ftw. You need it sooo badly vs zelda to approach her. She is the priority queen in this game, so watch out.

Zero Suit Samus +6-4
Too easy to get in her comfort zone and her keep away tactics just dont work too well on Wario's mobility.

EDIT: Putting this in my guide, lol. Not having this go to waste.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I disagree about the ICs and Toon Link.

IC-even though you can seperate them, in some ways that's the problem. the fact that there's two of them, messes up Wario's bite and grabs. they can spam their B, which delays any ground approaches. the only way to win is to out-aerial them.

Toon Link- Good Characters put up good fights. Toon link CAN camp Wario, and approaching is almost impossible. the boomerang can mess up grabs, and his dair cancels Uair attempts. his bombs can knock you off the bike and punish failed bites. spammed boomerangs and arrows are doom. even a bike shield can't protect you from shorthopped arrows.

 

[Blue sHell]

I disagree about the ICs and Toon Link.

IC-even though you can seperate them, in some ways that's the problem. the fact that there's two of them, messes up Wario's bite and grabs. they can spam their B, which delays any ground approaches. the only way to win is to out-aerial them.

Toon Link- Good Characters put up good fights. Toon link CAN camp Wario, and approaching is almost impossible. the boomerang can mess up grabs, and his dair cancels Uair attempts. his bombs can knock you off the bike and punish failed bites. spammed boomerangs and arrows are doom. even a bike shield can't protect you from shorthopped arrows.

ICs Ice blocks aren't a problem in the slightest in my opinion. Their Forwardb could punish some approaches, but well placed dairs and extreme preasure is the way to win. Wario seperating them is always a good thing. He could take care of Nana fairly fast compared to the rest of the cast. You have to worry about being grabbed, but if your smart you wont get chaingrabed much so your hard to punish.

Toon Link's short hop arrows and boomarang all could be biked. You have to absorb all of them with your front tire, just wheelie wall. Bombs are a problem but can't be spammed to well to be a serious threat. And if your opponent loves dair you could mindgame him into using it alot more than he should. Its a bad thing and very punishable if he has it in his mind too much. You could still upair because of this. And really he doesn't have any extra ordinary way to KO Wario. Not saying its easy by any means, just not saying that its anything out of the ordinary. Maybe its just me though.

 

[3GOD]

Thanks for all the input guys - I'm definitely rethinking some of the matchups I originally posted, and I'll update the original post to reflect this soon enough.

Bowser + 7-3
Obvious. Bowser has such an extremely hard time with Wario.

Captain Falcon + 8-2
Because he doesn't have any reliable aerials, he's forced to always airdodge to get away from things and it makes it one dimensional and very easy to keep preasure on him

These seem pretty reasonable - I've played very few Bowsers, but I am very aware of how bad CF is now. Wario owns him hard.

Diddy Kong + 7-3
Sorry, but this matchup is just plain bad for Diddy. Wario takes away all his bannana game, kills Wario very slowly, and Wario still has absolutely everything vs him.

I don't know who you've played as Diddy, but I played a good Diddy at a tournament on Saturday. The bananas aren't a huge problem, but he has pretty good aerial control and range. He was doing a good job of keeping me off the stage once I got hit off. I think it's probably closer to even than you've stated here.

DK= 5-5
Not easy, not hard. Good DKs aren't something to mess with. It's a fairly even battle really.

Falco- 3-7
Falco camping is the only camping that Wario should have trouble with. If the Falco double lasers correctly, the last bullet will always hit you in the face. So he could just camp of course. "Just bike then". No... because when falco is done double lasering he has no lag at all upon landing, so he could always evade or shield your bike and put you at the disadvantage again. Try to approach and fall for easy stopping tactics that Falco is known for. Really, if you don't believe me, check it out yourself and look for a good Falco.

I agree with these - DK is probably even, and Falco can do a lot to stop Wario from approaching. Lasers, jabs, chaingrab, etc. It's a tough match.

Fox= 5-5
Even.

I think this is maybe slightly in Wario's favor actually after playing a pretty good Fox, but I'll probably put it at even for now.

Ganondorf + 9-1
Yea...

Yeah......

Ike+ 6-4
Slight advantage. Not huge. Nothing big at all. I'd give it a 6-4 balance(leaning torward Wario). Ike falls for several combos but nothing too drastic.

I agree with the advantage here - maybe a little more toward Wario, but I'm not too concerned about the numbers yet.

Jigglypuff + 7-3
Jiggly has such a hard time keeping up with Wario in the air. I've been told after playing a good Jiggly that the match felt almost impossible.

Maybe that Jigglypuff just didn't have a good strategy vs. Wario? I find that Jigglypuff can keep up/away from Wario pretty well, but there are some other things that make it pretty even. Jigglypuff has a pretty good grab actually, and her Fair is really strong when it's not stale. I don't really know that much about the puff, but from my experience, the match is pretty close to even.

DDD= 5-5
Definitely even. Good DDDs know whats up in this matchup and they don't have much to be afraid of. Sure they fall for some combos, but really he has ALOT vs Wario too. Be wary, its not an easy battle

I am probably going to list this as even for now, but I'm actually leaning toward it being in Dedede's favor slightly. He is really freakin' heavy, and his Bair works well vs. Wario off stage.

Kirby- 4-6
Surprised? Wario has no Fair game vs Kirby, can't approach him too well after air combos once the kirby learns how scary his DownB is, and Kirby has some throw combos that rack up about 40% on Wario at low dmg. SD, MLGs best Kirby right now showed me two grab combos vs Wario that wreck him bad. Maybe I'm wrong, but the matchup vs really good kirbys is more hard than it is easy.

This seems about right actually - Kirby has a lot against Wario and actually has the power to KO in Brawl.

Link + 6-4
No projectile game, barely. And that means alot for link.

I think it's probably larger in favor of Wario than you've got here. Link's recovery is TERRIBLE, and he's not that hard to get off stage. You can pressure him like crazy with Dair and Bite, and his projectile game is already subpar without Wario dodging and weaving through.

Marth= 5-5
Lol? Knowing how to play against a great Marth gets some getting use to because Wario has to play so differently vs him. Know that forwardsmash is always on your list of things to punish with in this battle, and practically live in your shield. But other than that, really, its not as bad as we all once thought. Not at all. Pretty even. Hope you guys grow to understand why too.

I'm not growing to understand why yet. Futile played vs. DSF's Marth very well, but still ended up losing the set. I think Marth has too much range to make this even, but I don't think it's a slaughter for Wario either.

Meta Knight - 4-6
Not too bad. But certainly not easy. Utilize that airdodge and that shield well and know how to counter pesky B moves and it makes the matchup alot easier. It's not really too bad actually. But it'd be stupid to say that its even.

Meta Knight is ridiculous...if you know how to counter his B-moves, let me and the rest of the community know. Definitely in MK's favor, but I think it may be a little worse off than you have stated.

Mr. Game & Watch - 3-7
Bad :embarrass Game & Watch is a literal wall of priority, and his fair and bair range is huge, and the moves last a long time. And shielding wont work very well either. What to do? Airdodge alot. Retreat alot. Don't get baited by Dairs. And play your heart out. Not easy.

Yes - G&W is also ridiculous...I would say one of Wario's toughest matches.

Ness + 7-3
Another case of, just too much preasure for him to handle. Even though Ness has some extremely high priority moves, they dont mean much if your riding him 24/7.

I don't know about this one - I played a really good Ness at a tournament yesterday. He has a lot of good stuff in the air (Fair and Bair mostly). I think it probably is a slight advantage for Wario right now, but not as large as you've stated I think.

ROB+ 6-4
ROBs HATE good Wario's. Becaue ROB has no aerials except his fair that come out fast, if he's above you he'll always have to either retreat or airdodge, if you predict his movements you could juggle ROB with just upairs for a while. Also, Bite ***** his tanky strategies. Never ever use Bike to stop Rob's projectiles or approaches, and always keep bite handy, and you got this match won.

I don't think Wario has the advantage by any means in this match. The Bite is great if they just sit on the ground/spot dodge. But a smart ROB will simply SH Nair if Wario gets too close, and it prevents the approach with no landing lag. If Wario tries to dodge/roll through the Nair, he will get tilted or Dsmashed. Obviously a distance game is out of the question, and as you mentioned, the Bike is useless against the laser. Also...ROB approach? Lol. ROB's projectiles and Nair are simple too overwhelming for Wario to handle.

Sonic +8-2
I hope you guys know by now how bad this matchup is for him...

Yeah, probably about as bad for Sonic as Ganondorf has vs Wario. Basically, the Bite stops most (maybe all?) of his attacks, and Sonic cannot KO.

 

[Loyal2NES]

I know right? Whenever I bite him, he just respawns for some reason!! What other character can do that?

What, don't you guys consume Sandbags pre-match for all that fiber (and all the minerals in the sand)?

Come on, Wario's a big guy, he needs his nutrients... and I always figured his fart needed a little potpourri to add to the effect.

 

[A2ZOMG]

My personal opinion is that Wario would have the advantage on Zelda.

Wario's amazing DI prevents Zelda from hitting him easily, while keeping him within close combat range. Din's Fire isn't really that hard to dodge unless you're getting ledgeguarded. Basically Wario is quite able to force Zelda into doing what she's bad at, and that's getting people out of her face. Zelda fails rather miserably once you get really really close to her, and she whiffs something.

Also, I honestly don't think Wario has that big of an advantage against Bowser. Bowser is seriously good guys. He can grab from the air, and he can cancel all lag from his Forward B by jumping before he lands on the ground, giving him a deceptively impressive aerial game. Bowser's F-tilt >>> everything. Seriously. And this isn't great news for Wario who doesn't have a ton of range behind him.

 

[Young Cricket]

I think Wario has the advantage over Fox, chomp goes through a lot of his moves (Fsmash, ftilt, usmash, dair, nair, fair, sideb, upb ect), and fox hates getting edge guarded with Wario's f/nair since he\is recovery isn't so hot.

 

[Blue sHell]

My personal opinion is that Wario would have the advantage on Zelda.

Wario's amazing DI prevents Zelda from hitting him easily, while keeping him within close combat range. Din's Fire isn't really that hard to dodge unless you're getting ledgeguarded. Basically Wario is quite able to force Zelda into doing what she's bad at, and that's getting people out of her face. Zelda fails rather miserably once you get really really close to her, and she whiffs something.

Also, I honestly don't think Wario has that big of an advantage against Bowser. Bowser is seriously good guys. He can grab from the air, and he can cancel all lag from his Forward B by jumping before he lands on the ground, giving him a deceptively impressive aerial game. Bowser's F-tilt >>> everything. Seriously. And this isn't great news for Wario who doesn't have a ton of range behind him.

Good Zeldas are amazing at getting people out of their face. Sliding Upsmash is dangerous, and so is a sudden dash attack, grab, or retreating fair.

Bowser is beastly this game, I never denied it. But really, the combos Wario has vs Bowser are almost embarassing, he literally is the perfect weight. Go into training mode and do rising dair > fair > bite > Dash Canceled Upsmash and see how well they link together. And that's just a small example. He gets soooo combo'd. All Bowser mains will agree here.

I think Wario has the advantage over Fox, chomp goes through a lot of his moves (Fsmash, ftilt, usmash, dair, nair, fair, sideb, upb ect), and fox hates getting edge guarded with Wario's f/nair since he\is recovery isn't so hot.

Agreed.

I don't know who you've played as Diddy, but I played a good Diddy at a tournament on Saturday. The bananas aren't a huge problem, but he has pretty good aerial control and range. He was doing a good job of keeping me off the stage once I got hit off. I think it's probably closer to even than you've stated here.

Agreed actually. 7-3 is a bit much now that I think about it.

I think this is maybe slightly in Wario's favor actually after playing a pretty good Fox, but I'll probably put it at even for now.

Agreed.

I think it's probably larger in favor of Wario than you've got here. Link's recovery is TERRIBLE, and he's not that hard to get off stage. You can pressure him like crazy with Dair and Bite, and his projectile game is already subpar without Wario dodging and weaving through.

Sounds right.

I'm not growing to understand why yet. Futile played vs. DSF's Marth very well, but still ended up losing the set. I think Marth has too much range to make this even, but I don't think it's a slaughter for Wario either.

Shield camping Marth is fairly easy. It's just a manner of when to punish him and get out/not getting grabbed. But on the otherhand Marth in my opinion could do the most damage in a small amount of time when it comes to punishing mistakes. It works both ways. Also know that a well timed airdodge into his offense means a free fsmash for you. Whether he be aerial or grounded(except if he's doing his forwardb).

Meta Knight is ridiculous...if you know how to counter his B-moves, let me and the rest of the community know. Definitely in MK's favor, but I think it may be a little worse off than you have stated.

Ftilt and Fsmash both could actually stop tornados. If you don't have time to fsmash or ftilt, just shield and wait for him to finish and see if your close enough to grab or bite his possible spotdodge. Don't fsmash after he tornados because he will have enough time to spotdodge or roll so he could punish you right back. Forwardb is easy enough to avoid. And UpB you have to just look out for at every given moment, lol. Hate meta so much.

I don't know about this one - I played a really good Ness at a tournament yesterday. He has a lot of good stuff in the air (Fair and Bair mostly). I think it probably is a slight advantage for Wario right now, but not as large as you've stated I think.

Agreed.

I don't think Wario has the advantage by any means in this match. The Bite is great if they just sit on the ground/spot dodge. But a smart ROB will simply SH Nair if Wario gets too close, and it prevents the approach with no landing lag. If Wario tries to dodge/roll through the Nair, he will get tilted or Dsmashed. Obviously a distance game is out of the question, and as you mentioned, the Bike is useless against the laser. Also...ROB approach? Lol. ROB's projectiles and Nair are simple too overwhelming for Wario to handle.

Agreed with you pretty much on everything you said except this. The matchup is all about aerial approach fakeouts, Biting tanky mistakes, and knowing that getting too close means that he WILL dsmash. After dodging into Nairs, just hold shield. It's not a huge advantage at all, but I think ROB players will agree that Wario is actually hard to keep away as nicely as others may be.



We are all doing a very good job in picking these out though. Anyone know about the Mario matchup, lol?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm not really sure what to say myself about Mario vs Wario, in terms of who does better.

Being a Mario main, I can tell you overall Mario has decent projectile spam (he can follow behind Fireballs effectively). His air game is very low lag. Mario is also one of the better ledgeguarders due to the fact that the Cape is still very effective, and because the FLUDD's pushback also helps screw recoveries. Both Mario and Wario suffer in range, so this factor is much less important in this particular matchup.

My blind guess is that Wario has the advantage.

 

[Samus_ABe]

im not even going to explain like u guys did but here are corrections(im sure ive been to more big tournies than most of you...brawl bash II, gigabits 5/17, etc...)

Dedede -
Marth = or +
ROB +
Snake -

as for some you dont know

diddy +
link +
luigi +
pit = or mayyybe -

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

against pit i've tried to crawl to get to him but that failed due to wario is still a big target on the ground LOL. Wario ***** small and light characters LOL

 

[DMG]

Blue sHell could you tell us what the Yoshi infinite on Wario is? Cause if we are thinking about the same thing then I might have struck gold with this Yoshi Thread I found:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143857

If you go to the fourth chapter/section (Combolicious Strategies/Techniques) and look at the 10th thing there (chain throwing) near the end it has a part discussing an infinite on Wario. Apparently however it was struck out because it will only work on computer players. Just crossing my fingers that this is true

 

[Blue sHell]

im not even going to explain like u guys did but here are corrections(im sure ive been to more big tournies than most of you...brawl bash II, gigabits 5/17, etc...)

It's nice to not blatantly say that they are corrections. Until the mass majority of players agree on these matchups, they are just opinions.

Dedede -
Marth = or +
ROB +
Snake -

as for some you dont know

diddy +
link +
luigi +
pit = or mayyybe -

For how hard you shut everyone down, you didn't really explain why you think these things. All I could say is that Wario definitely doesn't have an advantage against Marth, and that a Luigi player that knows how to abuse what Wario is bad at could be pretty bad.

Attending big tournys doesn't mean very much, not enough to claim yourself as absolutely right. You're coming off a bit arrogant, but w/e, it's not my place to step in.

Blue sHell could you tell us what the Yoshi infinite on Wario is? Cause if we are thinking about the same thing then I might have struck gold with this Yoshi Thread I found:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143857

If you go to the fourth chapter/section (Combolicious Strategies/Techniques) and look at the 10th thing there (chain throwing) near the end it has a part discussing an infinite on Wario. Apparently however it was struck out because it will only work on computer players. Just crossing my fingers that this is true

SCORE!

The Yoshi player said that everytime I got out of it he'd just messed up. Aha! Great find man, really good stuff.

 

[handsockpuppet]

ICs Ice blocks aren't a problem in the slightest in my opinion. Their Forwardb could punish some approaches, but well placed dairs and extreme preasure is the way to win. Wario seperating them is always a good thing. He could take care of Nana fairly fast compared to the rest of the cast. You have to worry about being grabbed, but if your smart you wont get chaingrabed much so your hard to punish.

Toon Link's short hop arrows and boomarang all could be biked. You have to absorb all of them with your front tire, just wheelie wall. Bombs are a problem but can't be spammed to well to be a serious threat. And if your opponent loves dair you could mindgame him into using it alot more than he should. Its a bad thing and very punishable if he has it in his mind too much. You could still upair because of this. And really he doesn't have any extra ordinary way to KO Wario. Not saying its easy by any means, just not saying that its anything out of the ordinary. Maybe its just me though.

While your points makes sense, a projectile can be spammed, shields and approaches can't. I'm afraid that the bike is the ONLY method of approach for these guys.

 

[Hoots]

Here is how I see it

ROB -
ROB's ridiculous aerial range and priority makes it really hard to combo him. Then his down smash, lazer, and top are very good at keeping Wario away. His neutral air can kill Wario at low percentages and it is hard to avoid because of its sweeping range and the time it stays out. Also, he can just knock Wario off his bike when hes far away from the stage.

Olimar -
Olimar's ability to rack up damage so fast with the throw of a pikmin negates Wario's ability to dodge and not take damage. The speed and power of his smash from some of the Pikmin colors allow him to kill Wario at fairly early percentages. With his huge range he can keep you away and when you finally get to him he can just roll away.

Charizard +
Charizard is usually cake to deal with because Wario can easily intterrupt his attacks. Although Charizard dies at higher percentages, he is such a big target that you can rack up damage incredibly fast so it does not really matter.

Ivysaur =
I'd say this matchup is pretty even, although Ivysaur's bullet seed can be annoying and razor leaf knocks Wario off the bike, his very powerful smashes are somewhat slow and although they can kill at low percentages, they are dealable with as long as you maneuver around them.

Squirtle =
I have the most trouble with squirtle but I still give it an =, mainly because although Squirtle is so maneuverable and speedy, he can be killed at low percentages and can't kill Wario too easily. You just have to watch out for the downthrow after taking a lot of aerial damage.

Game and Watch -
A lot of characters have trouble with G&W. His aerials are out of his body so the range and priority are huge, which screws Wario. His forward smash can kill at low percents and although it doesn't hit too often, the down smash is fast enough to kill Wario effectively.

Sonic +
Wario destroys Sonic. It really doesn't seem fair. Any time Sonic turns into a ball whether it be for his B's or his dash attack, Wario can simply open his moth and rack up damage. Not only that, but Sonic has a very hard time killing Wario, so you can still be fighting at over 200% before he can get rid of your first stock.

King Dedede -
Dedede's hammer poses a problem for getting close enough to do some damage to him. Because its outside of his body, the priority is very good. The chaingrab is incredibly annoying and his immense power removes Wario's ability to survive till higher percentages. Wario's power is also negated because Dedede can survive for so long.

Meta Knight -
Meta Knight is very irritating. His speed and recovery can pretty much negate Wario's aerial game. When wario is recovering on his bike meta only has to hit him off the bike once and if Wario is far from the stage at all, how can he get back? With his Up B? You're dead.

Mario =
In the Mario Wario fights I play, the matches are always incredibly close. Wario is powerful, but Mario's attacks come out so fast that they intterrupt them a lot of the time. Mario's up air can be a problem because of its speed and priority and allows him to rack up damage fast.. However, Mario's mediocre recovery allows you to gimp him, and Wario does not have trouble killing him with too much difficulty.

Lucas =
Lucas's PK Fire pretty much removes the bike from play aside from recovery. Approaching Lucas is a *****. PK Freeze, PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Fire, Grab, Throw, repeat. Not to mention an up smash that can kill at incredibly low percentages. However, because of Lucas's lag after his moves, if he makes a mistake you can absolutely wreck him. Just dodge a hell of a lot and try to keep him in the air.

Ness +
Ness is not a big problem for Wario. You can bike through his PK Fire, he does not have the snake for a long grab range, and Wario seems to over power a lot of his attacks. His killing potential is not as good as other characters and his killing moves can be easily dodged.

Fox =
Although Fox has speed and racks up damage insanely fast, he dies at pretty low percentages. His forward smash has enough range where if you shield it knocks you far enough away so that if you forward smash afterwards, it falls just short and Fox can F smash again and kill you. However, he can still be aerialed against and he isn't dodgy enough to not be able to land a killing blow.

Thats all I can think of right now. These are the characters that I play against so those are the only characters that I can really comment on. These could also just be different from other people's opinions because of the people that I play so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[toasty]

I'm not quite sure why I'm doing this >_>

(About ROB)
Agreed with you pretty much on everything you said except this. The matchup is all about aerial approach fakeouts, Biting tanky mistakes, and knowing that getting too close means that he WILL dsmash. After dodging into Nairs, just hold shield. It's not a huge advantage at all, but I think ROB players will agree that Wario is actually hard to keep away as nicely as others may be.

I haven't read through anything past page 2 on this thread yet. I was trying to spy some hints on what good Warios do in the ROB matchup [as my boy Caboose aka Royboy850 makes my ROB feel like I have an obvious playstyle when really his Wario style just limits mine] This post above is very trueLast time I played him extensively it was past 1 AM or so and we were in autopilot mode...so I'll try and remember what I can about what he does.

Everyone who says that the bite limits ROBs tanky options and capitalizes on those mistakes is absolutely right. Especially because he'll stop right in front of my shield with the bite and I'll think ohhh snap yessss....and then I grab...and I get bit by that fata$$ ;____;

He'll do a lot of full jump nairs and then retreat [think Lucas/Jigglypuff though I'm sure that's a mainstay with any good Wario] and if I try to punish he'll tank with an f-smash or just do another nair. Then I end up deciding to stay in my shield and maybe I can jump out of shield with an aerial if he approaches. The reason I stayed in my shield is because if he bites I can roll immediately and if he doesn't I can shield-grab....except I have the tendency to forget how much maneuverability Wario has in the air...and he ends up behind my shield. I'll think I can bair out of shield, but it's too slow and I get fsmashed.

Do not ever use your Bike for recovery unless you are at some ridiculously high altitude at which ROB can't angle his laser or if you're far below the stage at an angle to steep for ROB to laser you. That's the easiest way to gimp Wario.

When recovering from below the stage with the bike, a good ROB will always be ready for a run-off dair right at the edge which will murder your upB. Instead, if you have a high-powered fart handy, do that, because it will propel Wario faster than ROB's dair can come out...and it will most likely kill him. A ROB who knows about this, however, will, instead, adopt the tactic of run-off bair to stage spike you or at least get you out of recovery range...the point? Get good at wall-teching [of course, you should do that regardless, but this is one of those reasons that goes on a list to answer the noob question "why bother learning stuff like wall/edgeteching?"]

If you use the bike on the stage, ROB can just shoot the gyro [even an uncharged one] right at the bike, it will invariably bounce up and knock Wario off of the bike.


When ROBs get a better handle on the Wario matchup, what will result is a ROB who will NOT be stationary, ever. That's what screws ROB over the most against Wario because if he plays by reacting, it's already too late. There will be intense aerial battles. Or just some a**hole who camps with lasers and nair Either way, expect the matchup to evolve into one where the ROB may even become aggressive *gasp*. If he camps, drop your bike and get some parts to glide toss around.

Also: shield pressure with Bite is a really good tactic. Eventually, if he still plays his reaction-based style, he will realize he can't do anything out of shield against the bite except to roll. If you corner him at the edge and get him off stage, you can't really gimp him because of ROB's UpB-aerial properties, esp uair, but what you do is stay at the edge and shield...chances are he'll upB to the ledge and not attack you for fear of random shlt happening [that's Wario's essence, after all] at which point you can camp the edge with Bite. I don't know if ROB's get-up attack out-prioritizes the bite so you'll have to check it out yourself. With any luck, ROB will play around on the edge and slowly waste more of his upB...or...you'll just bite him again, and then he'll waste more of his upB [btw: this is your goal for "gimping" ROB: making him run out of fuel as it ONLY replenishes if ROB is STANDING on the stage for an extended period of time] if he drops down lower to do an UpB-aerial, maybe try tanking with fsmash? or walk away from edge a bit and then punish his attack lag if he was using uair [most common]

gah...that's a lot. that's all I can think of at the moment
hope this helps

 

[Wman]

i used to have trouble when fighting good soniics then I realised I don't need to try i just let them run into me. but really Wario FTW.

 

[Ryan-K]

toasty- have you ever tried bairing him lol I mean it's mad disjointed and auto spaces

 

[toasty]

lol we end up going about even in our matches and I do land the hits when it counts. just thought I'd list the stuff that Caboose does that gives me trouble and could probably give other ROBs trouble