Wario Q&A Thread

[TheReflexWonder]

"So Wario can Chain grab DDD and Snake, similar to the one on Falco but it's like 10x harder. I guess I'm wondering if it's worth it to really practice it. It's like Dthrow, buffer boost pivot grab or some BS, still translating the messages lol."

What is Sky` talking about?

 

[Iota]

A CG on snake and D3?...If what he said in that is true then it's definitely worth practicing if it does good damage.

 

[DMG]

I don't think it's possible. Our frame advantage is very tiny, barely enough to grab people. Put it this way: if turn around jab isn't fast enough, then reverse pivot grab wouldn't be fast enough either. Or if Fsmash isn't quick enough, then this won't be.

If it's the same inputs as the Dedede infinite on Snake, the turn around still adds another frame and Wario pivot grab is frame 8? I think. I don't think we can punish someone with that, even if it reaches (and I was under the impression that his pivot grab range wasn't very much.

If it's a weird input like dash forward, then turn around, then turn back around and pivot, this definitely adds too many frames along with probably being impossible to buffer.

I'll take a look at it again, but I was nearly certain this was too slow. Dashing/pivoting will add a frame iirc, maybe 2 frames 1 for the dash and 1 for the turn around (or maybe that's built into the pivot grab frame data anyways, don't remember)

 

[Tesh]

I don't think it's possible. Our frame advantage is very tiny, barely enough to grab people. Put it this way: if turn around jab isn't fast enough, then reverse pivot grab wouldn't be fast enough either. Or if Fsmash isn't quick enough, then this won't be.

If it's the same inputs as the Dedede infinite on Snake, the turn around still adds another frame and Wario pivot grab is frame 8? I think. I don't think we can punish someone with that, even if it reaches (and I was under the impression that his pivot grab range wasn't very much.

If it's a weird input like dash forward, then turn around, then turn back around and pivot, this definitely adds too many frames along with probably being impossible to buffer.

I'll take a look at it again, but I was nearly certain this was too slow. Dashing/pivoting will add a frame iirc, maybe 2 frames 1 for the dash and 1 for the turn around (or maybe that's built into the pivot grab frame data anyways, don't remember)

don't buffered turnarounds take 0 frames? Grab is frame 6 and jab is frame...6 or 8? So if jab and fsmash don't work because of shield, couldn't it be possible that a buffered frame 8 pivot grab works because they can only shield?

then again if thats the case it wouldnt work on snake because of grenades....

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Jab is frame 8. I don't think Wario has any grounded Frame 7 option.

 

[DMG]

don't buffered turnarounds take 0 frames? Grab is frame 6 and jab is frame...6 or 8? So if jab and fsmash don't work because of shield, couldn't it be possible that a buffered frame 8 pivot grab works because they can only shield?

then again if thats the case it wouldnt work on snake because of grenades....

I don't remember if buffered turn arounds take a frame. My gut says yes. However, pivot grabbing should have added frames somewhere in there. Either from dashing or turning around or both. IIRC you can't standing pivot grab. I'm sceptical of there being a way to CG them except under very specific circumstances: you get a regrab on Dedede Snake and a few other characters if they land on a slope after Dthrow. What happens is that they land, go through landing lag, and slide down the slope closer to Wario. A regular turn around grab is fast enough, but usually doesn't reach far enough, and the slope takes care of that. Besides situations like those or moving terrain, I don't think we have anything.


If the input is to turn around facing the opponent, then back again and pivot grab, this should be too slow. If the input is to pivot grab in place, I'm not sure we can buffer that without it turning into dash dance/standing grab turn around. If we can, I'm pretty sure we take a frame to turn around and it will ruin this.

 

[Tesh]

In the frame by frame DDD video, it looks like buffering eliminates turnaround and dash startup. DDD literally spins in place and pivot grabs

 

[DMG]

Turnaround maybe. Dashing no. Again, buffered or not I don't think you can do a standing (no added frames) pivot grab. Buffering it just means it would happen as soon as it can in sequence, which should be dash frame 1 then cancelled into pivot grab (which may or may not involve a frame for turn around, don't remember how it works). The inputs and explanation given are that he has to do left down left so that he dashes (left to face that way, down to add an input kinda like crouch cancelling, then another left to initiate a dash), because otherwise he would do a standing regrab. If you aren't dashing, you'd either grab the same direction or buffer a turn around standing grab. Neither of those are the pivot grab obviously.

I'll ask someone to try it with Wario, but I'm pretty certain this doesn't work for us frame wise. This was old "news" way back in the day, someone claimed to discover a boost pivot grab or some janky xyz chain grab on Dedede but there were no videos, no frame data that supported it, nothing at all (and then I believe it was confirmed untrue by someone). As far as boosting grab with dash attack or something similar, that would also add dashing + attack frames + grab frames and I'm almost 100% that would also be too slow.

 

[Tesh]

pretty sure there is no 1 frame for buffering dash actions though. when you buffer instant dash attacks its the same speed isnt it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUtUo7jOGGU&t=2m25s

i dont see a turnaround frame, just the first frame of the pivot grab

 

[DMG]

There may not be a turn around frame for pivot grabs. Again I don't remember how those work specifically. But I do know you have to have a frame of dashing. He is buffering a dash: if you do the inputs minus grabbing and turning around, Dedede does a dash in that direction. You HAVE to be dashing iirc to do a pivot grab or else you will just standing grab in some direction. That's part of the reason he has to do the janky left down left input, because if you just do left right grab, he will standing grab. The game won't count it as a pivot grab. Even if you buffer it, the game should read it as 1 frame dashing and then cancelling into pivot grab. Which all should be too slow to grab the person after Dthrow. Boost grabbing or whatever the hell should also be too slow. I don't remember specifically, but I believe buffering dash attacks requires a frame of dashing otherwise you're buffering a regular attack.

I'll have someone look at it, but I'm nearly certain these don't work or aren't supposed to work on a stricly frame basis. Options that have proven to work are Dtilt and regular turn around grab and even Waft/Upb against walls due to how quick they come out.

 

[PEACE7]

Have any of you ever teamed with a ZSS before? If so can you give some info on setups/combos and stuff

 

[xzx]

Down smash to waft.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Neither of you are very good at "breaking the ice." You'll struggle with that.

 

[Tesh]

Yea I've done that team a good bit and its nothing special

 

[Croi]

I'm teaming with a Pikachu for Apex. Any tips/tricks there?

 

[waldorf2007]

I've done wario pika before and it wasn't that great for team combos. wario's down throw to partner doing anything is much less effective, charged up smash is the best pika's got unless the partner is mindful enough to ace a perfect thunder. pikachu's throws combo well into clap though, and up throw to waft is legit. idk much about team synergy but it definitely sounds like a team that CAN work together.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Any tips on using tires better? They keep dissapearing when hitting my opponentes shield or I keep missing my target and they go off-stage.

 

[Croi]

Throw them up, problem solved.

 

[Waymas]

it seems you can cg ddd and snake but its uber hard anyone got any info about this? I saw this on sky's fb

 

[Croi]

We discussed this, he's full of tshi

 

[Waymas]

tshi? you mean shiiit?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Throw them up, problem solved.

How is that any better? That's assuming my opponent is silly enough to come at me when they're bouncing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Glide toss tires downward, sort of like Diddy. The startup and cooldown is much shorter for it, allowing you to be able to get it off in the first place as well as combo off of hits.

 

[Lord Chair]

The chaingrabs have never been proven to exist.

 

[DMG]

^^^

The only janky ones that were proven, were the ones involving slopes and moving stages (including RC)

 

[PieDisliker]

I have this huge problem with airdodging into my opponent. What alternatives can I do to make approaching easier?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I have this huge problem with airdodging into my opponent. What alternatives can I do to make approaching easier?

Do it less and try to make yourself threatening in other ways.

Use N-Air to threaten approaches and potentially get something started yourself from time to time; the long-lasting hitbox helps a lot with both.

Use B-Air to poke in situations where it looks like nothing else would hit, sometimes even when you'll be laggy (as in, right before you land from a jump). Many players like to drop their shields early to have a better chance of rushing in after you land from your jump, and this can catch them off-guard/make them think twice about it.

It's often better not to approach. Don't be afraid to wait for Waft, as even thought approach options might be few and far between, a well-placed Waft does a lot of damage and has good KO potential. You risk almost nothing by waiting.

 

[UliWa]

How do you approach with wario? i am stuck again and i am doing so bad with wario againnn hate taking breaks.

 

[xzx]

Wario's approach game is decent. Weave in and out more often. And never air dodge into your opponent, EVER.

 

[UliWa]

Thanks for the advice idk i think i am in a huge slump or i just suck so bad like vs mk man i cant approach.

 

[xzx]

Don't approach then? Approaching a MK is like free damage for MK.

 

[Waymas]

Reflex can you tell me how you di so good Marth's up smash?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

:stick1: -> :stick2: -> :stick3: -> :stick2: -> :stick1: repeatedly. Slide it back and forth. Like button mashing, it works best when you shake your wrist/forearm, rather than actually moving your thumb.

 

[Waymas]

thanks a lot man!

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Should I use U-Air more for damage racking or an extra KO move? I may sometimes use it as a KO move on the ground, but sometimes it's just too stale for that.
Also, Waft Oos? Does that work? (First jump, then Waft all OoS)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

U-Air does 17% and isn't usually very easy to land. Every time you decide to save it for a KO, you're missing out on ~7% (depending on the alternative aerial) and losing advantageous position (in most cases). The way I figure it, if you're outplaying them, it doesn't matter how stale a move is, especially since Wario deals do much damage on individual hits. I'd rather take the damage, especially since it means that my slightly-weaker moves become KO moves and I don't just have to rely on the move I saved in that case.

 

[DMG]

Waft OOS works. You can technically punish Tornado with it but the timing is wtf

Nair on shield you can jump and fart on them oos as well (MK obv)

Uair should be hit with whenever you can. Low % you can combo it into another Uair or Fsmash near the ground or Waft/bite/grab. As a setup move it's also godly for keeping the juggle going on.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Someone said that I try to be too flashy because I tend to throw out empty aerials. I mean, it's not like I get punished for that, but yeah, now that I think of it, I do throw 'em out even if they aren't going to hit. I just try to "wall" them, or in D-Air's case, I DJ D-Air alot to preassure my opponent.

Do I have a reason not to do this?

 

[DMG]

Excessive DJ can get you killed or gimped easier if they read it or hit you before you touch the ground.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Alright, I'll try to avoid that. ): That's just an early consequence of mindlessly emulating professional Wario players.

What is the best move to break The Hog with without the wheels scattering all over the place and falling away out of reach?