Wario's Week 4 Matchup: King Dedede

[Collective of Bears]

This is a really weird one, because 90% of the matchup depends on the stage. Places with smaller floors and lotsa platforms, Wario *****. Flat stages, bah. Dedede will CG you to hell and back.

Discuss.

 

[_Phloat_]

Don't get grabbed. he is a large target, so bite works well.. but don't go the wrong way or mess up your spacing, he can punish hard for that.


Get ahead and make him come to you. This is terrible airspeed vs one of the best. Use it to your fullest, as he has the bair and the CG to make your life hard.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Get a damage lead and aircamp him the entire match, that's basically all you do.

Hard on FD, easy on Norfair.

 

[BMX]

Lol I agree with everything here. As long as you use well-platformed stages and bait D3 well, it should'nt be too hard rendering the CG weaker than usual.

Battlefield, Norfair, Jungle Japes, Yoshis, etc.

Basically places like FD are gonna be grab heaven for D3 and be ready to be gayed.

 

[Gichan]

Make sure the bite lands, DDDs will be looking out for a falling bite, then roll behind, and grab.

 

[:mad:]

Make sure the bite lands, DDDs will be looking out for a falling bite, then roll behind, and grab.

Toss a Waddle-Dee + Grab. It's much safer, and there's always the chance he'll get a Gordo.

 

[PhantomX]

DO NOT... I repeat... DO NOT take D3 to Yoshi's... EVER. Good luck getting a lead when he has a huge ****ing platform to hide under and an invincible uptilt and ******** bair.

My approach to the matchup involves forcing them offstage and then forcing them to up b. Don't get predictable with bites b/c they can pivot grab you out of them or roll and punish, as Gichan mentioned.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[PhantomX]

GJ, sir. Who's D3?

It's a very winnable matchup... it's just annoying as hell to play :\

 

[Corrupted]

Be sure to get off a few FJ dair -> upair is such easy damage. Bite inhale / up b and when he gets spotdodge happy. Otherwise its usually not worth the risk. Auto cancel those dairs flawlessly and land behind him: you can sh nair before he can sh bair. Its a frame trap, he hasn't got anything fast enough. You don't have to supercamp, just mix up you dair/fair game and space perfectly.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[PhantomX]

Haha... doesn't he main Kirby?

I played HAT... who mains Kirby, beat his Kirby and got CPed with D3 and managed to win in the third... maybe it's a new trend.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[BMX]

Hat? lol I played the guy at BTYF, but lost. -_-

He's kk, but he CP'd D3 and beat him O_0, but he went Kirby and got me.

 

[omegablackmage]

fullhopped dairs just barely touch the top of their frame, which is nice because it keeps them pinned down for a bite or a bite fakeout. For the most part i've found that it isn't too hard to maneuver around his hitboxes as he has such poor movement in the air, or his ground hitboxes are either pretty deliberate or too slow.

I love characters with the vulnerable up b's. Makes for very clear fart oppourtunities, full charged or not, to get the most out of each type. No fart charged, ddd should probably be hit with a sweetspot nair to knock him back out. Also, wario can react easiest to them dropping out of their up b easiest with the quick air speed.

Overall the chaingrab sucks of course, but other than that, i think he has the ability to outplay him in just about every category. Recovering can be rough if your in a tight spot, other than that wario really shines in this matchup on the right stage.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I still think it's in D3s favour. Wario can avoid the CG pretty well, yes, and he can camp like a ***** in the air but D3 still has many advantages. I'm not sure but I think D3s utilt beats Warios dair ... I can't imagine it being the other way round. This makes it very hard to approach D3 ... it's basically a guessing game between bite, grab and dair (everything else will get grabbed) and he can beat all of them if he predicts it right...and as you know one mistake = a CG, which really hurts Wario.

Wario has advantages offstage ... D3s tiny jumps make him an easy target for Wariocides ... unless he uses upB, which you can fart/clap him out of. Small platforms are in general very helpful in this match-up as they drastically increase Wario's room for error so your main strategy will be camping in the air/on platforms and getting D3 offstage asap.

The biggest problem with this match-up is that D3 has the advantage on the starter stage. Assuming we use the stage striking system it's possible for the D3 player to strike Lylat Cruise and Battlefield, which are the only neutrals, where Wario wins. All the other neutrals are in D3s favour, which means that the first game of a set will always be in D3s favour - he will get to play either on Smashville or Yoshis (assuming FD is a guaranteed ban). After D3 wins the first game it's really hard for Wario to win the set because no matter which stage you ban, there are still at least two stages in D3s favour (Wario has Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise but D3 will probably ban Brinstar): FD, Yoshi's, Smashville and Halberd are all in D3s favour and you can only ban one of them, which leaves D3 with 2 good CP stages (one stage ban + DSR) and he's already more likely to win on the starter stage.

So while it is actually a rather close match-up in a realistic tournament scenario D3 has the advantage because he has slightly better chances to win on the starter stage. The match-up itself is probably 55/45 in D3s favour but in the context of a real tournament it's 6/4 D3s favour.

 

[stnapknah]

I still think it's in D3s favour. Wario can avoid the CG pretty well, yes, and he can camp like a ***** in the air but D3 still has many advantages. I'm not sure but I think D3s utilt beats Warios dair ... I can't imagine it being the other way round. This makes it very hard to approach D3 ... it's basically a guessing game between bite, grab and dair (everything else will get grabbed) and he can beat all of them if he predicts it right...and as you know one mistake = a CG, which really hurts Wario.

Wario has advantages offstage ... D3s tiny jumps make him an easy target for Wariocides ... unless he uses upB, which you can fart/clap him out of. Small platforms are in general very helpful in this match-up as they drastically increase Wario's room for error so your main strategy will be camping in the air/on platforms and getting D3 offstage asap.

The biggest problem with this match-up is that D3 has the advantage on the starter stage. Assuming we use the stage striking system it's possible for the D3 player to strike Lylat Cruise and Battlefield, which are the only neutrals, where Wario wins. All the other neutrals are in D3s favour, which means that the first game of a set will always be in D3s favour - he will get to play either on Smashville or Yoshis (assuming FD is a guaranteed ban). After D3 wins the first game it's really hard for Wario to win the set because no matter which stage you ban, there are still at least two stages in D3s favour (Wario has Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise but D3 will probably ban Brinstar): FD, Yoshi's, Smashville and Halberd are all in D3s favour and you can only ban one of them, which leaves D3 with 2 good CP stages (one stage ban + DSR) and he's already more likely to win on the starter stage.

So while it is actually a rather close match-up in a realistic tournament scenario D3 has the advantage because he has slightly better chances to win on the starter stage. The match-up itself is probably 55/45 in D3s favour but in the context of a real tournament it's 6/4 D3s favour.

actually i like SV vs ddd. Grab release doesn't work and the platform goes wider than the stage does, making it easier to camp and get around his stuff (stuff= bair). also, the stage is not too big allowing for early fart kills/gimps. YI, BF, and FD are defintely in ddds favor though.

 

[PhantomX]

It'll usually go to Sville first round, and that's anybodies game.

 

[Corrupted]

You can bite the up b on the way up and when you throw him out again and he has no jumps he's dead. Just rinse and repeat.

 

[Gichan]

what about bair walls? I'm having trouble with that

 

[PhantomX]

You can either get above him and dair, below him and upair, or stay nearby and count his jumps and punish when he uses them up.

 

[Gichan]

the first two are tough, because sometimes they are too high up to go above and dair. or they drop like a wall of priority, so the second is hard. but let's say I count the jumps, is there lag after they fall to hit them with something? And what do I hit them with?

 

[stnapknah]

his bair doesn't have that much range... i usually find myself grabbing a poorly spaced bair (since they throw out like 3-4 at a time, it's easy to mess one up). On the other hand, if you see him coming close to you with some bairs, you can jump and airdodge through them (maybe clap when you're on the other side, if he hasn't adjusted to you being under him). As for counting their jumps, when they only have 1 or 2 left, just start full jumping a dair since he wont be able to get up that high. Or use bite when they land. Or grab if you want.

 

[PhantomX]

You can easily shieldgrab them if they bair your shield and have no jumps left as well.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[PhantomX]

Dude, shenanigans are supposed to be SHARED!

A couple of my favorite shenanigans are spinning in place when people are at the edge, purposely messing up instant wipeouts so that I snap the ledge, and doing a turn around while dashing a couple times just b/c I can... oh, and jab cancel > run away.

 

[Lazee]

lol jab cancel runaway is serious mindgames
And if they chase u can dair the **** outta them

 

[PhantomX]

This is my favorite mindgame of all. You go up to the back of someone's shield, half waft ready, and you literally just stand there. As soon as they move at all, you waft.

Or on fresh stocks, people like to go near the edges, so you stand near them, and they almost always roll, more free wafts.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[PhantomX]

I didn't say they were unknown, just said they were my favorite

 

[Quik17]

If anyone wants any advice on how to get ***** in this match up, just feel free to ask.

 

[BMX]

Inform us, Quik.

 

[Padô]

I would play gay, such as DMG, I still think this is a pretty winnable matchup after reading all this replies, I'd ban FD I think that should work against this matchup AND OBVIOUSLY AIRCAMP

guys where are the numbahs?

 

[MorphedChaos]

Ban FD and YI, and just aircamp him left right and center.

 

[CY]

If anyone wants any advice on how to get ***** in this match up, just feel free to ask.

no you suck.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

this matchup is winnable without aircamping....you just have to be like perfect and not miss a single anything.

 

[omegablackmage]

wow i just played quite a few serious sets of this match on smashville only last night... not so fun ha ha. Basically i can see the matchup being even as wario does have the tools to deal with ddd, you just can't mess up... ever. If ddd messes up somewhere they take like, maybe 15 damage. If you mess up, you take like 40, totally not fair ha ha.

Fullhop dairs are nice into bite, if your execution is good. Its risky though, a mistake means too much damage. The way i was playing it was to basically wall him with dairs and fair inbetween his attacks (which have more priority). Hope that your more precise than the ddd player and take the lead. You win in edgeguarding but it can be really hard to get him off the stage at times.

Again if both sides play very tight games, its close to even. If the wario is sloppy at all, it quickly goes strongly in ddd's favor, thats how i see it.

 

[PhantomX]

That's exactly how I consider it, OBM.

Fair is amazing in this matchup, unlike in others.

Also, you can minimize the amount of damage you take from punishes if you stay near the edges.

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah thats true px. You have to play this wierd push game with ddd. Their usually zoning with bairs/fairs/ftilts and such but they don't want you to be anywhere near where they are going to land or where they are unless they feel they have a solid oppourtinity to grab. So you end up pushing them a little bit when you zone with fairs and they push back when they zone properly with bairs. So you keep pushing each other back towards the edges, where you can pressure the most and deal damage, its really strange when you look at it.

 

[PottyJokes]

hit them once then start camping on platforms and running. if they approach they get punished, if they dont they lose if game goes to time.