What should I expect if I main Ganon?

[LilTurel]

New to playing smash more seriously, considering Ganon as a main. What does his playstyle feel like?

 

[Hokori]

Speaking from my own personal experience here. These are just a few mental notes I've made over the years...

- A ton of patience. Especially when dealing with some MUs where players will try to "lame" you out with whatever tools they have to do so. This can/will be frustrating when playing from behind, but you have to keep your cool to the best of your ability. You'll have to learn to take advantage of any and all openings people give you.

- Win the mental game. Use that patience and dissect the opponent and pick out some habits and look to capitalize when you think you have an opportunity. Do not be afraid of taking risks. You are Ganondorf. The payoff for successful reads can be pretty damn huge for Ganondorf, so become a ****ing librarian. Establish fear and make them put some respek on your name. You are LilTurel. The one and only. You are not to be ****ed with. Establish control of center stage, build a "wall" with safe aerials (retreating Bairs for the most part...spacing, spacing, spacing), and just keep it moving. Sane people are not gonna want to run into a backhand, so they'll look for ways to get in and take back control. Be mindful of the options they have at their disposal and be ready to punish. Get in their head.

Imagine yourself as THE alpha. If Shrek comes to mind for whatever reason, think of yourself as an ogre defending the swamp. If some little Farquaad thinks he can pitch a tent in your territory, on YOUR swamp...get him/her TF out. You lose that swamp, you lose everything.

The world is yours when you have the lead, but you can feel absolutely helpless at times when you're down and fighting for some control. Practice, practice, practice. It's all fun and games whooping up on friends in FFAs and friendly 1v1s, but success with Ganondorf in a more competitive environment will take some grit and a lot of effort on your end.

IMO, Ganondorf is the most satisfying character to be good with. He doesn't get that much respect due to his viability/tier placement over the years (not where I'm from anyway), but that just makes victory sweet and it can demoralize our victims.

If all of that sounded a bit incoherent and/or stupid, my bad. It's Saturday night and I've had a few drinks. I just wanted to share since Ganondorf is my favorite character and I always welcome people to seriously give him a shot. Feel free to look up some montages or whatever on YouTube to see all of the nasty plays you can eventually pull off.

 

[LilTurel]

Thanks Hokori! I think the alcohol only enhanced your explanation. I will demand RESPECT.

 

[Hokori]

By the look of things, we have a promising future ahead of us. Stick around

 

[LilTurel]

You can bet on it my dude! I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the Wii and I wasn't a brawl fan. So I'm so hyped to play smash and especially on the go.

 

[King9999]

You will feel like a god when you hit someone with his d-air.

 

[LilTurel]

His new stuff looks godly across the board, I'm hype.

 

[Fortress]

Profound sadness.

 

[Hokori]

Profound sadness.

The Dorf is not pleased.

 

[SaltyKracka]

To lose. Ganondorf is not an easy character to main, and up until now Sakurai and co. have not put either time or effort into making him competitively viable. This may have changed in Ultimate, but everybody always starts out each new iteration of Smash thinking Ganon is better than he ultimately turns out to be...

 

[LilTurel]

I hear you, if I'm honest I'm not planning to try compete at the highest level, I know I don't have the time to dedicate to it. I'll be happy if I can be respected at a local level and be better than your normal everyday casual player

 

[Hokori]

If that's your goal, you'll be perfectly fine with Ganondorf as a main. Hell, you'll get respect from your opponents just for selecting him in a tourney and actually hitting the start button. Go for it. Ganondorf requires more work compared to a lot of other characters, but you can definitely be a respected player in your community even if you're not topping every local with him. You'll definitely deal with a lot of "Man, if I picked _____ instead, I would've won", but that's a part of the experience.

 

[LilTurel]

Yeah I know a lot of players will take any advantage they can to win and I won't knock them for it but for me if I'm not playing the character that I want to play then I'm not having fun.

 

[Fortress]

Yeah I know a lot of players will take any advantage they can to win and I won't knock them for it but for me if I'm not playing the character that I want to play then I'm not having fun.

That's a big part of it for a lot of people. I tend to play a lot of Link despite him being hot garbage in every game he's in, and when I was first playing Under Night in Birth I was playing Akatsuki (but I've been blessed with the buffs of the gods).

 

[LilTurel]

That's a big part of it for a lot of people. I tend to play a lot of Link despite him being hot garbage in every game he's in, and when I was first playing Under Night in Birth I was playing Akatsuki (but I've been blessed with the buffs of the gods).

I've heard good things about link in ultimate is it all hot air? and yeah just gonna grind it out on Ganon and be "best Ganon" Lmao

 

[Hokori]

Yeah I know a lot of players will take any advantage they can to win and I won't knock them for it but for me if I'm not playing the character that I want to play then I'm not having fun.

The motto for every Ganondorf sub-forum.

Amen.

 

[Fortress]

I've heard good things about link in ultimate is it all hot air? and yeah just gonna grind it out on Ganon and be "best Ganon" Lmao

He's still 'guy with subpar frame data and fat weight supreme'. Yeah, sure, his recovery might be better, but unless his startup gets better he's never going to get those moves out in the ranges that are going to matter against similarly ranged characters. He just traditionally has a lot of very fundamental flaws that his gimmicks don't really make up for.

 

[LilTurel]

I get what you are saying, kinda feels like most of the characters accept shiek get the shaft in most of the games

 

[Boartobewild]

I get what you are saying, kinda feels like most of the characters accept shiek get the shaft in most of the games

The main problem is that the games have been designed in a fashion, where big, slow and heavy chars are at a natural disadvantage from the start compared to the smaller, lighter , faster characters, who basically have pretty much all the tools for success at their disposal.

The former case have big meaty hitboxes and weight that ensures that they'll spend a while getting pounded, once they are neatly prepared, the later category will just control the pace and bait the heavy into an attack he will miss due to being much to slow to catch up and not being able to recover quick enough from his attack and catch a pivot smash for example in return.

The quickies besides having better attack speed, recovery and approach options have the one thing that's the most important in competetive battles. MOBILITY. But that's not all folks there's more! Unlike their not so graceful counterparts they can't be comboed as well due to their light weight and while they may lack kill power, their inherent weaker attacks make comboing a breeze and will ensure a one way ticket to gimp town!

By now I hear a lot of you groaning: " Dude, that's **** even casuals know, do you even have a point?" Yes I do, the one thing nessacary to make the game more balanced, is to reduce hitstun when stale-move negation comes into effect. That way nobody would need to worry about projectile camping as much, as well as certain chars only spamming "that one move". Also how is it that a skinny ass character like sheik or diddy and bayo, gets stunned just as long as a giant turtle, a hulking ape and big ass guy in heavy armor!?
Bowser's "tough guy" was a step in the right direction,( though Ganon could have used this way better in smash4, especially considering he was slower due to wearing ****ing solid (super) armor!!) but the heavier you are, the less hitstun you should receive.

 

[Fortress]

The main problem is that the games have been designed in a fashion, where big, slow and heavy chars are at a natural disadvantage from the start

This is pretty much it, and you can find examples of it across all of the games. In a traditional fighter like SF series, you don't have a ton of character-specific stuff to worry about since most everybody works exactly the same when they're getting hit. But, in others like Guilty Gear, you get character-specific combos because of varying weights, wakeup timings, and other kinds of data. Smash is actually the same way, but on a really extreme scale. Some most characters, simply because of their physics alone, will be mediocre-at-best characters.

 

[KingDoop]

On account of the new perfect shielding mechanic, I think heavy hitters like ganondorf will be more viable, as they can punish the hardest. Or at least, as someone who mained DDD in smash4, I want to believe it lol.
So I say a ganondorf main would want to master parrying, as well as bait out your opponents' to drop their shield too soon then SMASH

 

[LilTurel]

Both the reduction of hitstun(if they'd actually do it) and the point about mastering parry are good points towards making heavy characters more viable. Idk its speculation at this point but the fact remains that heavies exist in a game tailor fit for speedy characters

 

[I Like Link]

I just started posting on this site again after 10 years and I'm surprised to see a gif I made posted here. I only posted it once or twice. Probably on gamefaqs.

Anyway, I always believed Ganondorf's biggest weakness was how unsafe most of his attacks are, and with the new landing lag and his attacks doing more damage against shields, everything he does should be far less punishable. The slightest increase in speed will help greatly as well. Even if stuff like landing lag, damage, and movement speed is something everyone benefits from, I think it benefits Ganondorf more because they were his main weaknesses. I am really optimistic about Ganondorf being a viable character.

 

[SvartWolf]

i wonder how viable heavyweights will be on this game.

on one way, the overall landing lag reduction and global jumpsquat reduction, while benefitting everyone, benefit way more cluncky characters than already nimble ones. even if one or 2 frames are reduced shiek, the results will be meaningless since sheik wasn't held back by those frames in the first place. on teh other hand, characters like ganondorf were really held back from that frames, and in some cases they seem to be shoving +10 frames.

Additionally, by design seems that there will be less prominence of combos, meaning that each hit should count more, which should benefit hard hitters more. a common problem of big heavies was being combo food.

On the other hand more prominence of edgeguarding will be detrimental to heavier characters with poor recoveries, since they wont be able to withstand big amounts of damage what was teh main adventage of being heavy.

Good dashes seems that will be very helpful, meaning that heavies with good dashes as bowser or charizard will be doing better than ones that don't (DDD, Dorf)

Dont know how the new perfect shield will affect them though.

Ironically, i feel that charizard will have a field day when the games comes out, and thats not even counting squirtle, ivysaur and the buffed switch mechanic.

as for ganondorf, I feel that he gained as much as he lost. (I can really see him being edgeguarded heavily, even if hi will likely become more dangerous)

 

[_Ganondorf_]

B

i wonder how viable heavyweights will be on this game.

on one way, the overall landing lag reduction and global jumpsquat reduction, while benefitting everyone, benefit way more cluncky characters than already nimble ones. even if one or 2 frames are reduced shiek, the results will be meaningless since sheik wasn't held back by those frames in the first place. on teh other hand, characters like ganondorf were really held back from that frames, and in some cases they seem to be shoving +10 frames.

Additionally, by design seems that there will be less prominence of combos, meaning that each hit should count more, which should benefit hard hitters more. a common problem of big heavies was being combo food.

On the other hand more prominence of edgeguarding will be detrimental to heavier characters with poor recoveries, since they wont be able to withstand big amounts of damage what was teh main adventage of being heavy.

Good dashes seems that will be very helpful, meaning that heavies with good dashes as bowser or charizard will be doing better than ones that don't (DDD, Dorf)

Dont know how the new perfect shield will affect them though.

Ironically, i feel that charizard will have a field day when the games comes out, and thats not even counting squirtle, ivysaur and the buffed switch mechanic.

as for ganondorf, I feel that he gained as much as he lost. (I can really see him being edgeguarded heavily, even if hi will likely become more dangerous)

Very good points you brought up. And I agree.

The good things about a bad recovery or a bad dash attack is that now with updates by the devs they can buff obvious weaknesses in characters now. And since they are focusing on making this game more competitive than the previous 2 games I think they would buff/nerf accordingly.

If Ganon's recovery is shown to make him really bad they can give him super armor on it, make it go further etc.

I think is recovery is still trash and they should give him (and Falcon) the ability to up B after side B in the air and give Ganon a hover (for cannon reasons and he needs it).
That would help alot too. I'm very hopeful for ultimate I hope I am correct

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

Expect the "perfect" blend of heartache and pleasure. Ganondorf can both make you feel happy and depressed. Your highs are high and your lows are low. The advice I would give to you is accept Ganny's weaknesses and roll with it. When times get tough, keep trucking. Of course, you don't have to.....

 

[LilTurel]

What do you guys think about esam placing ganon high in his impressions of the demo?
He placed ganon in high tier.
https://youtu.be/CXdEPOciggw

 

[Boartobewild]

What do you guys think about esam placing ganon high in his impressions of the demo?
He placed ganon in high tier.
https://youtu.be/CXdEPOciggw

It sounds very optimistic to say the least,(the guy played the demo and is not such a top-player with pickachu without good reason, a character that wasn't considered top tier potential uptil he started performing with him, so I'm more inclined to believe his judgement), so at the very least, I'll believe that Ganon won't be low tier material any longer.

But until his recovery gets a meaningful buff, like no longer getting freefall after using airial flame choke, but instead still being able to use double jump and dark dive or any airial option for that matter and thus increasing his recovery reach and options as a whole, I'm not convinced that he'll be high tier!!!!!!

 

[LilTurel]

Yeah I feel that, two things to keep in mind is that 1. It was based off of his short impressions and 2. Esam is hyped as **** lol

 

[Mgl]

to win evo

 

[MERPIS]

a lot of pain

 

[Boartobewild]

a lot of pain

For (y)our enemies and esp. opponents in For Glory, that is!

I can't tell you the amount of times I managed to make someone ragequit, due to being killed super early by incredibly salt inducing moves such as all his Smash attacks, Ganoncide, F-tilt, Dair, Tip/Gimp man Uair, Bair, Airial Wizkick, Warlockpunch, untechable Darkdive when recovering to close to the stage Annnnnnnd DARE I SAY IT?! SIGH...............................EVEN VOLCANO KICK!

This is gonna be even more the case and even better in Ultimate, so by all means, strap yourself in his less heavy Gerudo armor, step into those magnificent (Das) boots, slip on the (presumably) Strength gauntlets (or Power gloves if you prefer) and take up the mantle as the Demon King!

It's not gonna be an easy ride, you'll def. have to put more thought and strategic timing into your play style if you want to be successful, but the anguish and pain of your foes will be worth it!!!

 

[OF 'til I OD]

Ambivalence, amazement, heartache, pain, love, excitement, hatred.

A whirlwind of emotions, both good and bad.

 

[maxistrife]

Ambivalence, amazement, heartache, pain, love, hate, excitement, hatred.

A whirlwind of emotions, both good and bad.

Very much this. I usually main a smaller, princess type character like Peach or Zelda, but whenever I played a heavy, it was Ganondorf, even though he is absolutely awful in past incarnations of smash, I got to play 2 rounds at a demo event at the Mall of America and for one round I chose Ganondorf and had 7 points at the end of the 2 minutes as opposed to everyone else's negative scores (or maybe the one dude had ONE point...anyway XD) He is faster, and his smashes feel better, especially with the sword, but he is still slow overall...so expect to be frustrated by people who play smaller, faster characters well, BUT when you land that massive hit on them and KO them at 30%, it feels really good...Someone who reads their opponents very well should be able to make Ganondorf viable.

 

[King9999]

Only people who can read will pick up Ganon.

 

[meleebrawler]

Only people who can read will pick up Ganon.

Join him LilTurel , and he will make your reads the greatest in Koridai! Or else you will die.

 

[TheDoctor22]

Very much this. I usually main a smaller, princess type character like Peach or Zelda, but whenever I played a heavy, it was Ganondorf, even though he is absolutely awful in past incarnations of smash, I got to play 2 rounds at a demo event at the Mall of America and for one round I chose Ganondorf and had 7 points at the end of the 2 minutes as opposed to everyone else's negative scores (or maybe the one dude had ONE point...anyway XD) He is faster, and his smashes feel better, especially with the sword, but he is still slow overall...so expect to be frustrated by people who play smaller, faster characters well, BUT when you land that massive hit on them and KO them at 30%, it feels really good...Someone who reads their opponents very well should be able to make Ganondorf viable.

He hits like a truck with right stick sword and he's grab is strong which you can follow up on, but he is very slow, I love him but I can see a lot of people not liking him.