Which Nerfs Ganondorf Didn't Deserve From Brawl to Melee

[A2ZOMG]

Most of the nerfs were really stupid... they nerfed his recovery, his jab, and his grab horrendously. But the nerf that hurt the most was the nerf on Fair. The coding error isn't even that relevant TBH; even if they didn't code it wrong, Ganon wouldn't be able to autocancel his Fair out of short hop, which would still make it useless for spacing purposes. Unless your opponent is in the air, you're still going to get that ******** landing lag every time you use Fair.

Also, they added a huge sourspot on Fair. As if the landing lag didn't make Fair bad enough... now we have to space it nearly perfectly if we want to hit with more knockback than our jab. Fair was Ganon's bread and butter in Melee, but now it's horribly unsafe and very situational.

Now to be fair, Ganon's F-air in Balanced Brawl has the coding error fixed, and it's a GOOD move.

For edgeguards and platform pressure basically, and to a lesser extent anti-airs (one of Ganon's biggest weaknesses!). In all situations where the opponent is in a disadvantageous position, Ganon's F-air with the autocancel corrected is a **** move. Offstage it frametraps airdodges perfectly. The option to use it more safely in air to air exchanges makes a significant difference when you consider that Ganon has trouble with anti-airs. The move isn't terrible for air to ground spacing either, if you treat it like Ike's F-air as a long range spacer with high shield push.

As for the discussion on Jab, they did technically buff the damage on Ganon's Jab in Brawl, Sweetspotted it does 9 damage as opposed to a consistent 7 damage Jab that actually starts combos. Furthermore in point blank range, Ganon's Jab has a 5% sourspot.

Ganon's Jab in Melee is retardedly good. 3 frames, combos into itself, grab, F-tilt, and Dash attack at low percents, and generally creates enough space for you to start rushing down your opponent relentlessly. The Brawl Jab however is one of the worst moves in the game. It has the damage and knockback of a weak tilt, but the ending lag of a lot of Smashes.

 

[supersmash43]

Now to be fair, Ganon's F-air in Balanced Brawl has the coding error fixed, and it's a GOOD move.

For edgeguards and platform pressure basically, and to a lesser extent anti-airs (one of Ganon's biggest weaknesses!). In all situations where the opponent is in a disadvantageous position, Ganon's F-air with the autocancel corrected is a **** move. Offstage it frametraps airdodges perfectly. The option to use it more safely in air to air exchanges makes a significant difference when you consider that Ganon has trouble with anti-airs. The move isn't terrible for air to ground spacing either, if you treat it like Ike's F-air as a long range spacer with high shield push.

As for the discussion on Jab, they did technically buff the damage on Ganon's Jab in Brawl, Sweetspotted it does 9 damage as opposed to a consistent 7 damage Jab that actually starts combos. Furthermore in point blank range, Ganon's Jab has a 5% sourspot.

Ganon's Jab in Melee is retardedly good. 3 frames, combos into itself, grab, F-tilt, and Dash attack at low percents, and generally creates enough space for you to start rushing down your opponent relentlessly. The Brawl Jab however is one of the worst moves in the game. It has the damage and knockback of a weak tilt, but the ending lag of a lot of Smashes.

What is this corrected or Balanced Brawl you speak of?

 

[Exalted]

It's a hacked version of Brawl which as the name suggests: balanced.

 

[Z1GMA]

Melee Ganon probably wouldn't be able to combo out of Brawl side B

Dude, if the opponents were Brawl Characters, Meleedorf would have a garantueed jab on all characters in the game after a Flame Choke

His frame 7 iDA would also wreck *****.
Too bad it has less KO-potential that the DA in Brawl, though.

 

[DLA]

Dude, if the opponents were Brawl Characters, Meleedorf would have a garantueed jab on all characters in the game after a Flame Choke

His frame 7 iDA would also wreck *****.
Too bad it has less KO-potential that the DA in Brawl, though.

Oh well I actually assumed that if Brawl side B was in Melee, then the opponent would be able to tech it when they hit the ground. In which case, it would be a really really good move (easy 0-death CG ftw), but I don't think there would be any guaranteed combos.

My point was that Gerudo Dragon would be completely useless in Brawl, since its only use in Melee (combo starter) wouldn't work, due to the fact that he wouldn't actually be able to combo out of it in Brawl. That's why they gave him Flame Choke.

 

[Z1GMA]

Poor Falcon - Beeing left with the good ol' Raptor Boost, which can't true combo in Brawl, lawl.

Falcon'd be pretty coo' with a Gerudo, though.
Lots of garantueed stuff on all characters.

(Assuming he had the same Frame Advantage is Ganon, despite him beeing shorter.)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falcon would probably be at minimum mid tier with a Flame Choke counterpart to his Raptor Boost. What is hard to believe is that the current Raptor Boost in Brawl is in fact a good move. Not godly like it was in Melee, but in the situations where you're supposed to use Raptor Boost, it's GOOD at what it's supposed to accomplish. Due to it's properties, it's very good at baiting and punishing. The main problem with it is of course the risk/reward being pretty lame.

I'd be very terrified of Falcon if his SideB did in fact start true combos. And especially if it happened to be unblockable.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ye, and with a Gerudo, Falcon'd be able to Gerudo -> Ftilt Jablock, heh.

Too bad all of Ganon's attacks are to strong (or slow) to do this.
This makes me think Sakurai looked into it ^^

 

[supersmash43]

Flame Choke is the only real somewhat beneficial addition to Ganondorf even though te nerfs still outweigh the buffs. Maybe the designers didn't intend to downgrade him but thought the changes they made would actually be good?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You guys forget the game was designed with items in mind. With stages like Pirate Ship and 75m in mind. With 4 players and no teams in mind to a certain extent.

Beamsword in hand, Ganon can jablock. Actually, Ganon just has item shenanigans in general. How was that green shell levitation trick done again? I could never figure out how to pull it off.

 

[smashkng]

I think Dtilt is also a buff. It now has really good range and Uair is also stronger and still keeping the tipman properties in his back. It is lame that Brawl has no L canceling at all though, it would make Ganon so much better.

 

[Ganonsburg]

You guys forget the game was designed with items in mind. With stages like Pirate Ship and 75m in mind. With 4 players and no teams in mind to a certain extent.

Beamsword in hand, Ganon can jablock. Actually, Ganon just has item shenanigans in general. How was that green shell levitation trick done again? I could never figure out how to pull it off.

brb convincing people to have items in tourneys

Ganon for top tier?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah see, Sakurai designed the game with items in mind. Flame Choke is HELLA broken when items are on. Flame Choke -> Final Smash ALL DAY.

 

[Z1GMA]

With normal settings on (Item-rate at middle), Ganon still gets destroyed by a lot of characters.
Hell, ICs can take a stock away from you before an item even appears.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

With normal settings on (Item-rate at middle), <insert character here> still gets destroyed by <Ice Climbers>.
Hell, ICs can take a stock away from you before an item even appears.

Fix'd.

Don't get grabbed.

 

[supersmash43]

I think a buff Ganondorf (and maybe C Falcon as well) could have received in Brawl was invisibility frames while their neutral B attack is being executed (but not when it is charging of course). I am talking about the entire ending lag and not just a frame or two!

 

[Exalted]

Supreme Dirt, Green Shell Levitation is performed by fastfalling and throwing the GS downwards and then executing an aerial (preferably Uair) right after throwing it. Remember, you must start falling before you re-throw the shell.

 

[Vermanubis]

Nerf? Haha.

SILLY FOOLS.

 

[Exalted]

That must be Verm's secret to being good with Ganon. He doesn't know he has nerfs.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

That must be Verm's secret to being good with Ganon. He doesn't know he has nerfs.

Yeah, Verm didn't get the memo that Ganon was crap, thus his Ganon > MK.

 

[supersmash43]

That must be Verm's secret to being good with Ganon. He doesn't know he has nerfs.

Or he never played Melee before.

 

[Player-1]

He was too broken in melee, they had to make him crappy in this game to compensate, obv.

 

[supersmash43]

He was too broken in melee, they had to make him crappy in this game to compensate, obv.

Another thing I can't wrap my head around is why they made Snake heavier than Ganondorf. Snake looks a lot less robustly built than Ganondorf yet he's heavier than Ganondorf. imao, I think they should have made Ganondorf the 3rd heaviest in Brawl rather than Snake.

 

[-LzR-]

I have no idea why Snake is a heavy weight in the first place!

Ganon thought is a huge man, he is colossal and a very strong and he wears heavy armor and a sword around.

I think what hurt Ganon was the change of physics. No L-canceling seriously sucks for him.

 

[DLA]

According to Snake's coding, he was designed to be a 20% larger character than he is. But for whatever reason, they decided to shrink his entire body by 20%, but keep his weight and hitboxes exactly the same.

That's why the hitboxes on his tilts are so obscene too.

 

[Exalted]

So that makes Snake an invisible fatass?

 

[-LzR-]

Why would have Snake been much larger than Bowser? What were the makers of this game on...

 

[supersmash43]

According to Snake's coding, he was designed to be a 20% larger character than he is. But for whatever reason, they decided to shrink his entire body by 20%, but keep his weight and hitboxes exactly the same.

That's why the hitboxes on his tilts are so obscene too.

That explains a lot. Yeah he got all the advantages of a heavy weight (large attack hit boxes) yet having a smaller character model than what other super heavy characters have. Snake IMAO is the most broken character in the game.

 

[Z1GMA]

So that makes Snake an invisible fatass?

Not quite.
His Body Frame(hitbox) is just as small as he is.

According to Snake's coding, he was designed to be a 20% larger character than he is. But for whatever reason, they decided to shrink his entire body by 20%, but keep his weight and hitboxes exactly the same.

That's why the hitboxes on his tilts are so obscene too.

I know it's just a game, but that seriously makes me angry.

If his hitbubbles shrunk 20% (or his body/hitbox grew 20% larger),
he woudn't be nearly as gay.

Keeping his hitbubbles big, but not hit body/hitbox.
That's just ********...

-¤-¤-¤-

Any ideas on how MK ended up like he did?

 

[Exalted]

MK is just MK.

 

[AyatoK26]

MK=Sakurai creation=Dreamland as highest ranked universe with at least 3 chars=perfect frame data for MK, a chain-grabbing penguin, and a pink menace with an annoying *** d-taunt.

Edit: Who created the Zelda series? And did he/she get into a fight with Sakurai? Cause that Hyrule tier...

 

[Exalted]

I believe Shigeru Miyamoto came up with Zelda, but Eiji Aonuma plays a major role in developing the games.

Sakurai and Aonuma are good friends IIRC.

 

[supersmash43]

Snake is just broken. Ganondorf has been broken in Brawl.

 

[Mystu82]

this is why is the worst character to play as but still decent but ganon is much larger in twilight princess link is only up to his waist im pretty sure ive only seen the final battle against him

 

[Claire Diviner]

There was a thread about this image already (I think it was deleted though), but for those who have questions about Meta Knight... well, here ya go:

 

[Exalted]

Sakurai is the most succesful troll ever, selling several million copies wordwide.