Why Brawl can never be patched/updated

[SmashChu]

Informative, but it does a bad job because it makes too many value judgments. It looks for wrong rather then reason.

 

[ElectroBlooper]

Auroreon makes some good points. Another thing that you all really need to remember is that Nintendo is a much smaller company than Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo knew perfectly well that no matter how hard they tried, they would never be able to compete with these two companies for the hardcore gaming crowd. Why? Because they do not have the money and resources to invest in the development of the kind of hardware that Microsoft and Sony can. Unfortunately for Nintendo, this is exactly what the hardcore gamer wants: more advanced graphics, more powerful hardware to run more advanced games on, more features and options that improve gameplay and allow you to do more with the system, etc. If Nintendo stayed with this approach and continued trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft for the hardcore gamer demographic, they would lose the console wars every time. I personally am not sure Nintendo would even have survived long enough to compete in another generation if the Wii failed as much as the Gamecube did.

When Iwata became president of Nintendo, faced with the hard fact that his company could not compete with others for the main demographic of the videogame audience and that whatever his company did technology-wise, his two competitors would always be able to do better, he did the only thing he could: shift the company's focus to expanding the market into an untapped demographic his company would be able to compete for, largely because no one else had really tried: casual gamers, people who are not going to be interested in learning to play complex games like Halo or Soul Caliber but might be interested if there were videogames that were simpler to learn and did not require the effort or skill involved in more complex titles. While the more hardcore gamer may scoff at such a focus on motion control based gameplay, it sounds creative and fun to someone who isn't interested so much in learning complex controls, even if they are a little more precise. They care more about whether they have to deal with overheating or breaking systems. Notice that the Wii is designed partly to minimize headaches like those that the hardcore gamer is a lot more willing to endure than the casual gamer. Nintendo's move towards a less serious audience was also helped by its company image: instead of trying hard to fight its negative rap among hardcore gamers as a kiddy console, they used the image to their advantage and aimed for people who would go more for a less serious, hardcore console.

So next time you feel like b¡tching about the Wii, remember that Nintendo can't succeed by appealing to the hardcore gamer. They didn't "turn their back" on their fans for extra cash, they changed their target demographic from one they could never compete for to one they could dominate. They should be proud of themselves and they weren't wrong to codename the Wii "Revolution." The move to appeal to non-gamers really was revolutionary when you look at how closely videogames have always stuck to the traditional audience. It was frankly a very intelligent move that allowed them to survive, at least for now. The article the OP linked to does seem to point out some very poor choices that Nintendo made in terms of development of the Wii: they definitely should have thought more carefully about how to allow for external expansion of memory and the online implementation of updates. I don't deny there may be things to complain about. Nintendo crapping on its fans or the limitations of the Wii, however, are definitely not among them.

As far as the PS3 flopping and the Wii kicking a$$ sales wise, Sony's approach was basically the exact opposite of Nintendo's. They invested tons of money in developing a super powerful system that ended up being so expensive that no one bought it. For all of Nintendo's problems, they sell a much cheaper system at a good profit while Sony loses money on a much more expensive system. To compound this, it is much cheaper to develop titles for the Wii than it is for the PS3 because of how advanced the two systems are. I don't hate Sony or anything, but props to Nintendo for handily outmaneuvering a much bigger company. Underdogs FTW.

/Rant

 

[homsar]

Anyone ever notice that in the 6th gen everyone said GC was a kiddy console and that the PS2 was the hardcore console but now that its 7th gen everyone says that PS2 was the casual console and GC was the console with the best games.

That makes me lol.

 

[j.rob]

Awwwww man.....Its hard being a nintendo fan these days........

Last year i allmost sold my wii due to the hundreds of "SUPER FAMILY FUN PS2 QUALITY GAMES WITH RUBBISH MOTION CONTROLLS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY" games. Thank god for Brawl and mario kart, its the only thing keeping my wii alive.

But this year things are looking better.

Madworld,The conduit (wich will be the best game ever on wii) No more heroes 2, Sin and punishment 2, punch out wii, and hopefully some Big announcements at e3 like Pikmin 3, Zelda and a new mario.........Oh and please nintendo.......Make a F-Zero wii with online play....

 

[BentoBox]

Anyone ever notice that in the 6th gen everyone said GC was a kiddy console and that the PS2 was the hardcore console but now that its 7th gen everyone says that PS2 was the casual console and GC was the console with the best games.

That makes me lol.

No, nobody says that.

@Electro: They should then stop making empty promises and pretend they're still trying to cater the hardcore mass (e.g. e3). Nobody knew what they were getting into when the Wii first came out. We were promised a revolution (we, as in the already existing fanbase and not an untapped market), and never did get anything in the end. We're kept playing rehashed 1rst parties with "innovative" controls while they send a message to the 3rd parties clearly enticing them towards a new cash cow; we were let down.

They did also say that Wii2 would be an actual new gen. Let's wait and see how that'll turn out.

 

[ElectroBlooper]

I do see what you're saying about empty promises, Bento, but try looking at it in a different light. First of all, Nintendo is never going to be dumb enough to straight up abandon the hardcore gaming audience. That is still an important part of the market that they don't want to totally lose if they can avoid it. I'm not sure what "promises" they have made, but Nintendo wants to do what they can to please the hardcore audience so long as it doesn't encroach on their efforts to reach casual/non gamers. I'm not being an optimist, this is just obvious from a business standpoint: they don't want to lose entirely a relatively large and stable segment of the market. Also, there are still good games for the Wii. Go to a review site like IGN or something and read some of the reviews for the top games on the Wii. There is still stuff on the system worth getting. However, as I explained at length in my last post, Nintendo has no choice but to look for a different audience because they can't survive just catering to the hardcore one. Keep in mind Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony are all businesses at heart. If you think that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't have gone Nintendo's route in a heartbeat had they thought it was the most profitable option, you are pretty ****in naive.

Also, I think you kind of interpreted what Nintendo meant by "revolution" to mean what you wanted it to. Nintendo never promised a "revolution" specifically to and for the hardcore gaming audience; they promised a revolution to Wall Street, their shareholders, and the general public at least as much as they did to us. What were you even expecting? A Nintendo system that had all the features of a gamer's wet dream and surpassed the PS3 and Xbox 360? A control system that was magically better for hardcore gaming than a straight up controller? Get real. As I explained before, they couldn't have afforded any kind of "revolution" technology-wise. No weird new way of controlling the game that didn't cost about a trillion dollars could have been better than a regular controller.

If you feel let down, maybe you were expecting things from Nintendo that were unfair of you to expect. Nintendo did try to compete for hardcore gamers with the Gamecube and guess what: we let them down. They couldn't shake a rep for making kiddy consoles and games, and hardcore gamers flocked to more powerful systems made by bigger companies. Do I blame the gaming community for "letting Nintendo down?" No, of course not. It makes perfect sense that people who haven't grown up with Nintendo (or even those that have) would choose the more powerful console with more features instead. It also makes sense for a company that knows it will never win over hardcore gamers as well as the competition to focus on a different demographic. That doesn't mean it will want to completely neglect hardcore gamers, but obviously they aren't going to be Nintendo's focus. And what exactly do you mean by Nintendo should stop "pretending" to cater to hardcore gamers? Should they just issue a public "f*** you" to hardcore gamers so that nobody's still confused? They want hardcore gamers to like their products, but they can't afford to focus on making sure they do.

I don't disagree with being optimistic for the Wii2, especially since they'll have a lot more money to invest in it this time around, but don't get too hopeful. Look at what Nintendo has learned from the Gamecube and Wii: focus on hardcore gamers = failure, focus on casual/non gamers = smashing success. I doubt Nintendo will see it in quite such simple terms, but it does suggest to me that they may very well take a similar approach with the successor of the Wii.

 

[Meese]

well this blows.
that is all.

 

[Mardyke]

I wonder how many Wii haterrs have even heard of Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, let alone played it.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You know what's sad?

If Nintendo were to suddenly stop making consoles (like Sega) and become a third-party developer, then I would be thanking the lord.

Nintendo, get your **** act together.

Agreed. This would be for the best.

Because they stopped aiming their games at gamers and went to where the money is at.

Yes. This will get through this economic downfall now. There is a big hole in their strat in terms of long term though. Casual gamers will not stay casual forever. They will move on to something else or their tastes will eventually mature to the point where they won't tolerate games like Wii Sports resort. Who knows if they will be on board if they make the "next generation" Wii.

Also, more and more people are saying the Wii is a fad. I'm starting to agree. Thank lord I have a PS3, because Brawl and Twilight Princess(I finished the GC version though) are the only games I have on the Wii and they aren't enough to hold me over until the next Zelda/Starfox/Mario/Metroid/F-Zero/Yoshi's Island/Kirby/etc. game comes out. MGS4 FTW.

Only time will tell if karma comes back to hit them hard. Wait about 2.5 years and come back to me.

I even play my PS2 more than I play my Wii. To be a Nintendo fan at this point feels like an act of masochism. I won't be getting the "next-gen" Wii console from Nintendo. Would you?

Edit: I may try Fire Emblem, but I'll play the GBA games before Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn.

 

[Oracle]

More reasons to hate nintendo! Yay!
I say we organize a nintendo boycott until they remove their heads from their *****

 

[Dark Sonic]

Edit: I may try Fire Emblem, but I'll play the GBA games before Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn.

I'd suggest you avoid Sacred Stones if you're looking for even a small amount of challenge in a strategy game (that game is seriously just too easy). Among the "hardcore" FE fans, it's one of the lowest rating games of the series (only topped by FE2 apparently). In contrast, FE5 is said to be the hardest game in the series, mostly because of you having under leveled units for pretty much the whole game.

FE7 (just called Fire Emblem outside of Japan) is a good place to start. It's got a little tutorial mode to get you started (which is actually like a prequel to the main storyline), it's got a good variance of difficulties, and it allows you to use mostly units of your choice (especially on the lower difficulty levels). It's a good representation of the series.

 

[Cheapless Jared]

I just had a very bad thought. What if it could be patched, but you would have to BUY them from the wii shop channel?!?

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo saw the success of the PS2, a casual console (don't try to deny it, as much as people would like to believe, the PS2 was severly underpowered in the sixth generation and attracted a huge ammount of shovelware). And they saw how the Gamecube, a console aimed at gamers, was for the most part a failure.
The fact is, whoever makes the worst, most underpowered, featureless crappy console will always come out on top. And Nintendo knows this

Where do I begin? The PS2 was NOT a casual console. That is called a mixed console, with some shovelware and some amazing 1st and 3rd party games.
The PS2 was "severely underpowered"? It was 2nd most powerful in the generation! If the PS2 is underpowered then what is the GameCube? So the most featureless and crappy systems win huh? Amazing that the WonderSwan and Hyperscan didn't win then.

 

[Mardyke]

Yes. This will get through this economic downfall now. There is a big hole in their strat in terms of long term though. Casual gamers will not stay casual forever. They will move on to something else or their tastes will eventually mature to the point where they won't tolerate games like Wii Sports resort. Who knows if they will be on board if they make the "next generation" Wii.

The casual market can indeed be a fickle thing, which could work against Nintendo. But at the same time they're easier to control than the proper hardcore market (that being the hardcore-hardcore, not the mainstream-harder), which are already impressed by the reputation of their more stellar and long-lasting franchises. Furthermore, Nintendo are paying attention to other franchises like Punch Out and Sin And Punishment. Who knows, we might see a new Mach Rider if things get flexible enough.

Also, more and more people are saying the Wii is a fad. I'm starting to agree. Thank lord I have a PS3, because Brawl and Twilight Princess(I finished the GC version though) are the only games I have on the Wii and they aren't enough to hold me over until the next Zelda/Starfox/Mario/Metroid/F-Zero/Yoshi's Island/Kirby/etc. game comes out. MGS4 FTW.

I have trouble believing it's a fad, mostly because I've doubted Nintendo before and have been proven wrong for it. Very wrong. Nintendo haven't lasted this long by being short-sighted; chances are, their initial success with the Wii is step one more than anything else.

On the games department, I'm afraid we're a bit split. There are many good games for the hardcore gamer out there - more than I actually have time for, especially if I want to take them in on a hardcore level.

Only time will tell if karma comes back to hit them hard. Wait about 2.5 years and come back to me.

You're acting as if Nintendo has betrayed people. Which, in all fairness, it hasn't really. To me it feels like they're doing what they've always done.

I even play my PS2 more than I play my Wii. To be a Nintendo fan at this point feels like an act of masochism. I won't be getting the "next-gen" Wii console from Nintendo. Would you?

I reckon I will, since all the intelligent gamers are multiplatform anyway.
'Sides, Shadow of the Colossus and Snake Eater were great games: I wanna go back to them myself.

Edit: I may try Fire Emblem, but I'll play the GBA games before Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn.

I entered the series with Radiant Dawn. It's hard as nails, but feels oh so rewarding. I'm still working my way through Hard mode. I'd almost urge you to go for that one and boost the sales while they're still vaguely noticed, if they are. Micaiah's worth it, anyway.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I have trouble believing it's a fad, mostly because I've doubted Nintendo before and have been proven wrong for it. Very wrong. Nintendo haven't lasted this long by being short-sighted; chances are, their initial success with the Wii is step one more than anything else.

Look Around you. There is quite a bit of evidence in many places, such as the fact that most Wii owners don't play it very often when compared to other consoles(5 hours a week) and the horrid attach rate. Also, the overall horsepower and processing potential of the Wii is subpar in this day and age. If you look online, you can see more and more people on message boards and interviews are saying it's a fad. Only time will tell if the Wii will overcome that.

On the games department, I'm afraid we're a bit split. There are many good games for the hardcore gamer out there - more than I actually have time for, especially if I want to take them in on a hardcore level.

They aren't coming out at a sufficient rate to keep us interested in Wii for long.
Look at the rate of good games coming for the PS3/360 and compare that to the Wii's lineup. You will find the ratio of good games to bad games is very different.

You're acting as if Nintendo has betrayed people. Which, in all fairness, it hasn't really. To me it feels like they're doing what they've always done.

Sigh.... We were betrayed last year in more ways than you think.
Here they are.

1. The decisions made in the development of Brawl and MK Wii, which were supposed to be games for the core gamer. - I see tripping as the embodiment of those decisions.

2. The lack of first party releases on the VC- I've tried to keep up hope that one of the following first games would be released on the VC, but my hope ultimately got shot down repeatedly to the point where I got sick of waiting.

Earthbound - This won't ever come on the VC sadly.
Mother/Earthbound Zero
Zelda: Majora's Mask
Mario Tennis
Mario Party 1 & 2
Super Mario Kart
Super Smash Bros 64.
Donkey Kong 64
Kirby Super Star
Super Punch Out!!
Starfox
Diddy Kong Racing - This won't ever show up either.
Goldenye 007 - See Diddy Kong Racing.

3. The E3 Press conference - We were expecting many things from this event. I was expecting one of the following:

A. A solution for the Wii's lack of space

B. A new Starfox/F-Zero/Kirby/Kid Icarus/Donkey Kong/Yoshi/Pikmin game. I knew there wasn't going to be a Mario or Zelda game this time.

C. An method to improve the Wii's online functionality

and guess what? We got none of the above. What we got was Wii Music and Wii Sports Resort.

Before you reply to this, be aware that I have tried incredibly hard to stay optimistic about the Wii in 2008, but I lost hope when the year was over with nothing interesting on the Wii came out this winter. It just set me up to get my hopes shot down to the point where even playing regular Brawl for more than 5 minutes fills me with sorrow.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I love Nintendo. but I am severely disappointing in the Wii. relatively, it is arguable that the gamecube was a flop (not many titles, mostly spin-offs). Still, I liked the Gamecube, and had high-hopes for the Wii (although they really should have stuck with the name Nintendo Revolution). What do I get? Wii sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii sports resort, and countless other shovelware (created by nintendo!). the good games:

Twilight Princess - Disappointing
Metroid Prime Corruption - disappointing (what happened to that amazing 2 player I used to love! they could've done better!)
Super Mario Strikers Charged! - I like the game, but mostly for its wifi, and even that sucks.
Galaxy - eh, couldn't top SM64 at all
Brawl- sucked
Mario Kart Wii - gimmicky, in all I like Double Dash better
FE Path of Radiance - eh, disappointing
Wario Land Shake it! - I like it, but should've been longer with a multiplayer
Okami - Not made by Nintendo, but good

for VC- just use an emulater lawl. I was patiently waiting for a Mario Tennis, but with the new Control feature added to Power Tennis, I'm afraid it may not come for a while (they took the easy/cheap way out). Also, I desperately want a new Kirby for the Console and a new Star Fox would be nice.

In all - Now that I have the 360 and the PS3, I'll probaably be playing it more than the Wii. I love Bioshock more than any other Wii game, and in all it probably comes just behind Melee in my "Favorite Games" list.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You guys who are promoting the PS3 over the Wii are out of your minds. The Xbox360 is a high quality console so I'm not going to attack it (in terms of games at least; they break left and right which translates to garbage hardware to me). The PS3 is just a joke; why do people take it seriously? Seriously, it has had lots of time. Let's try naming good exclusives for it. It does have a few. It has Valkyria Chronicles, Little Big Planet, and Metal Gear Solid 4. Those are interesting games no doubt. However, that's a really thin set of offerings, especially when you consider that certain important games (like Street Fighter IV) run better on the Xbox360.

The Wii had so many more games worth owning. Brawl alone is a good reason to own the console; I shouldn't even have to justify why Brawl is an amazing game here (and I'm not going to). Super Mario Galaxy was an insanely good game; it exceeded my expectations in just about every way and very easily stands up next to Super Mario 64 (which was already one of the best games ever made). Seriously, the gravity stuff was just mind blowing; Super Mario Galaxy was a major step for gaming as it stopped trying to merely recreate real world physics and instead invented its own laws of physics that were designed to best accommodate what it wanted to do. Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz is a massively underlooked game; it's a rock solid and thoroughly challenging platformer. Name any other game this generation that fits that description. Zelda: Twilight Princess was a flawed game on a lot of levels, but it was still definitively worth playing (and better than Wind Waker at least). Fire Emblem 10 was quite solid and a big improvement over the already decent Fire Emblem 9 (it was possible for non-braindead people to lose a few of the missions). Metroid Prime 3 was worth playing for quite a few reasons I don't feel like getting into. Tales of Symphonia 2 was definitely only worth playing through once so it's a lot worse than the other 3d Tales games, but even a bad 3d Tales game is still a game I would advise everyone who is able to play (Tales series is too good). Super Paper Mario was way too easy, but it was still good fun with series typical great writing (Mr. L and Count Bleck were too good). It was always a really pretty game; it was probably worth playing just for all the cool graphic things they did (a good example of why smart artstyle is more visually appealing than 10^23 polygons every time). I confess to not having played Wario Land Shake it!, but being a platformer makes it instantly interesting to me (seriously, this genre is too good, and if you like it, you had better learn to love the Wii). Sonic and the Secret Rings even justified a playthrough though I can't say it's going to earn game of the year or anything. Given the Wii's $250 price tag, I feel this selection of games very easily justified my purchase, and the Wii isn't even done yet. There's a new Tales game on the way, we have that TMNT Smash Up game that could be good, and the Punch Out!! remake is intriguing for sure. And who knows what we'll see in the future, and further I can't say I have even experienced everything the Wii has to offer.

As a second point, consider the access to homebrew on the Wii. I will happily trade game updates for what the homebrew people have already done on the Wii. The Wii is the main platform I use to play NES, SNES, GBA, and Genesis games. Can the Xbox360 or the PS3 do that? Nintendo certainly didn't intend for it, but we can only consider how things turned out here. As they turned out, the Wii has all of those things available. My Wii's disc reader doesn't work, and I still get more use out of my Wii than I would with a PS3 just because of this. While I'm at it, notice that the Wii is all but perfectly backwards compatible with Gamecube games (only the LAN/online stuff in a very few games and the Gameboy Player don't work on the Wii). The PS3's latest models don't even include backward compatibility (the older versions making it cost even more), and the Xbox has a download system to handle "backward compatibility" that is a lot worse than a direct model (not that the original Xbox had all that much to offer anyway).

I'd also like to point out that you can just ignore Wii Sports etc. I don't play them; as far as I'm concerned, they don't exist. They aren't any worse as shovelware than Madden or Guitar Hero or similar garbage. These sorts of games have always existed; real gamers would do best to just ignore them. Ignoring them means you don't hold them against the console they are on; you just act as though they don't exist.

Price is another concern. If you want an Xbox360 that doesn't lack very important features, it costs $300. The PS3 costs $400. The Wii costs $250. Some of us aren't rich; all of these cost a lot of money. The PS3 had better be so amazing that it's worth giving up buying 8 other games to own, but look at how it is. It has the least quality for the highest price. Why would anyone buy it? If I had the money, I'd definitely buy an Xbox360; the Xbox360 and the Wii are both high value purchases. The PS3 is a horrible value, and you should only buy it if you have tons of money to waste. You're basically paying $550 (or is it more with that scam of $60 games that they like to do these days?) for 3 games.

People are free to list good PS3 exclusives to prove me wrong. Note that games that are also on the Xbox360 don't count. Please try to limit the number of boring gun games on your list (Resistance). Listing games that aren't out yet doesn't help you much either; it's not like every console doesn't have good games on the way.

 

[BentoBox]

Boring shooters? Nintendo hasn't had a quality FPS on its consoles since the n64. Note how everybody hypes the hell out of The Conduit. Why pretend to be spoiled?

 

[MiniTroika]

Where do I begin? The PS2 was NOT a casual console. That is called a mixed console, with some shovelware and some amazing 1st and 3rd party games.
The PS2 was "severely underpowered"? It was 2nd most powerful in the generation! If the PS2 is underpowered then what is the GameCube? So the most featureless and crappy systems win huh? Amazing that the WonderSwan and Hyperscan didn't win then.

Are you nuts? The gamecube was more powerful than the ps2. Julius eggebrecht of the studio that made those gc star wars games said you could get more out of the gamecube than the xbox. It just took more effort.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

@Amazing Ampharos: Please look at a chart displaying the ratio of good games to bad games released on each console and you will find that the Wii has the highest amount of shovelware. At least when waiting for a PS3 game to come out, you aren't saturated with crap like the Wii.

For the PS3, you forgot to mention Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Calling All Cars(DLC) and Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction.

I have to rely on Homebrew to play classic games like you because games like Earthbound and Goldeneye are NEVER coming to VC.

This will explain why EB won't ever come to the VC.
http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-legal-issues/

Anyway, I feel that the Wii is worse than the Gamecube.

 

[Mardyke]

Look Around you. There is quite a bit of evidence in many places, such as the fact that most Wii owners don't play it very often when compared to other consoles(5 hours a week) and the horrid attach rate. Also, the overall horsepower and processing potential of the Wii is subpar in this day and age. If you look online, you can see more and more people on message boards and interviews are saying it's a fad. Only time will tell if the Wii will overcome that.

For clarity's sake, what do you mean by attach rate?

What's important to remember about console power is that we're nearing the days when that has peaked. Graphics have long since stopped impressing me, so much to the state where I prefer seeing a game with poor graphical power than one with super-realistic gigantic hordes of brown and light shining off of horsecrap graphics. Animations and the like are still a given, but what matters most to me is that the game runs smoothly. I'm not a Graphics-Don't-Matter person at all, but I welcome the Wii for breaking what felt like a console monotony of graphical power.

They aren't coming out at a sufficient rate to keep us interested in Wii for long.
Look at the rate of good games coming for the PS3/360 and compare that to the Wii's lineup. You will find the ratio of good games to bad games is very different.

See, this is where my main beef with Wii-hate pops up; how to enjoy a game in the hardcore fashion. A hardcore gamer is a gamer - last I checked - who examines everything in clean detail. Looks for all the secrets, best ways to play the game if there are any (if not then he finds all the ways to look at the game), grabs everything there is to know, etc. The casual gamer is the one who picks up a game, beats the single player, then doesn't come back to it again. Either way, there's plenty for the hardcore player on the Wii. Mario Galaxy speedruns, Brawl's competitive game, nailing a perfect no-death run on Fire Emblem, high scores on Trauma Centre operations, etc.

Not to mention that I actually welcome the slowdown in the Wii lineup. Normally the pace is so frantic that I'm buying game after game without time to go back to the ones I already liked. The Wii's actually let me take it easy, go over the past ones. I remember in the days of the N64, I'd played Ocarina Of Time start-to-finish eight times: I've not even had the chance to replay Twilight Princess at the pace things are going. I wanna be able to go back and try Galaxy some more, I still have a Bioshock hard-mode run to finish...yet I actually can't, seeing the flood of must-buy games. With the pressure taken off the hardcore market as far as the Wii goes, I'm relieved to feel that I can take it easy and just enjoy what I have instead of rushing to the next big thing.

Though on a different point, it perplexes me that the more underrated games (in sales) like No More Heroes and Okami hadn't got more attention with the reduced competition on the Wii.

Sigh.... We were betrayed last year in more ways than you think.

---

and guess what? We got none of the above. What we got was Wii Music and Wii Sports Resort.

Nintendo never actually promised any of this. It was simply assumed - which was actually a very foolish assumption for gamers to make, actually. I feel like I'm the only one aware of the knowledge that if Nintendo wanted to make gains in the casual market, it wouldn't be able to support its regular overdose of high quality titles. In other words, the hardcore gamer would have to learn the meaning of actual patience.

The way I see it, Nintendo's plan was made clear from the very beginning; try to expand the gaming audience over the world, as opposed to continuing its introverted path. Hence the casual love. I can safely attest to it when my family were openly interested and discussing the Wii after playing it through Christmas. Some time later, I tried showing my mother the introduction to Bioshock, just to show her the artistic merit. She actually saw it and was amazed, yet couldn't control the thing for the life of her, meaning I had to take over and solve most problems for her. Yet given just an ounce of time, familiarisation with the controls, she'd have been perfectly fine and could have played the game by herself if she ever stopped jittering.

In other words, Nintendo are hitting the nail on the head psychologically.

Before you reply to this, be aware that I have tried incredibly hard to stay optimistic about the Wii in 2008, but I lost hope when the year was over with nothing interesting on the Wii came out this winter. It just set me up to get my hopes shot down to the point where even playing regular Brawl for more than 5 minutes fills me with sorrow.

I don't measure console quality by the amount of support it receives, I measure it by how much I enjoy it. At the moment I'm following my 360 for Call of Duty 4, Banjo-Kazooie, Gears of War and Street Fighter. When I get a PS3, it'll be for Metal Gear Solid and LittleBigPlanet. I've plenty of games to go through at the moment, yet I'm more compelled to go through the Wii ones again then I am my other ones. I spen sixty euros just to get this thing, I'm not about to leave it to collect dust.

I suppose I differ from the regular hardcore gamer in that I'm not as rabid a consumer. I'm not up for rushing to the next game. If there's one good game on the Wii lineup, that's enough for me - I already have good games on the console.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You live in the PAL regions don't you? I live in the NTSC ones. Be aware that games come out in the NTSC regions long before they come out in Europe and the PAL regions. For Example, ALL OF THE WII GAMES YOU MENTIONED CAME OUT IN THE US IN MARCH OF 2008 OR BEFORE. The US hasn't had a noteworthy Wii game in over 9 months. In this time, we have finished with playing those games, hence our patience over here expiring.

I somewhat agree with you with it not being all about the graphics. However, it's not just the graphics that are the problem. It's the lack of processing power the Wii has. It's one of the main factors that prevent multiplatform games from being ported in their original forms.

 

[BentoBox]

I would agree with you if with lower graphical standards came a much richer gameplay and greater immersion; but such an exceptional game has yet to be found on the Wii.

 

[GHNeko]

Brawl+ anyone?

This.


Also. Thank you for adding on to my list of reasons to hate Iwata.

Remember guys, this console is completely Iwata's project. Completely his. Blame Iwata. Not Nintendo. I want the old president back. >:

 

[Ulevo]

Well, it's a good thing that Brawl is such a good game.

Oh wait.

 

[PityLord]

This.


Also. Thank you for adding on to my list of reasons to hate Iwata.

Remember guys, this console is completely Iwata's project. Completely his. Blame Iwata. Not Nintendo. I want the old president back. >:

Yeah hate Iwata for not making Nintendo die -.-.

Do people have that much money and time to get every interesting game for any concole they want and still be bored? Wow sucks to be you then. I have a total of 6 Wii titles wich I enjoy very much and I still dont have Mario Galaxy and LoZ:TP. And yeah I live in Poland where Nintendo is NONEXISTENT and games are hard to come by but I still love playing my Wii.

I agree that it is kinda hard to find worthwile games among all the shovelware but I'm not that lazy to just go ahead and reasearch wich games I might enjoy and are worth buying. Still as I said I dont have the money to get the main titles so it doesent bother me anyway.

 

[metalmonstar]

Some Insight

I find it really funny that when Nintendo finally does something right, the fanboys decide to jump ship. Seriously the 64 and Cube were utter failures and yet you can defend them but not the wii. Just shows how loyal the Nintendo fanboys are.

Nintendo generally has always been a bit behind the times. Sega's consoles almost always beat out Nintendo when it came to power, yet Nintendo always won the war hands down.

Nintendo has also always tried to make consoles for everyone.

Now last generation we have Sony push out their over hyped PS2. Then Sony proceeds to bully Sega out of the console market. Now there is some speculation that the Dreamcast was more powerful than the PS2 but I am not sure about how true this is. The PS2 pretty much for a good bit of time has a monopoly. 3rd parties are forced to develop for them. By the time Gamecube and Xbox were released, the PS2 had already won the generation. Its DVD player allowed to be accessible to the casual players and it vast library that was rapidly improving allowed it to appeal to the core audience. PS2 was the console for everyone last generation. It had a good mix of just about everything. I figure Sony didn't worry at all about the Xbox. I mean it was a new console from a western company. It could never compete with them. Nintendo however had been in the business for a while. Sony knew that casual gamers don't keep up with gaming news, so they attacked the Gamecube, calling it a kiddy console. Sony fanboys at this up and helped out the cause. Leaving the core audience away from the Gamecube.

Despite being one of the weakest systems that generation the PS2 was able to come out on top, for a multitude of reasons. The Gamecube was left in last places for several reasons. Mainly image and lack of third party support.

From this Nintendo must figure that they cannot compete with Sony and Microsoft if they continue to follow the same pattern. In order to stay alive they have to do something completely different and take a gamble. Thus the Wii is made and the "blue ocean" strategy begins.

Sony on the other hand figured that the casual would once again buy their product after all they have a strong brand name. Just to make sure they repeat the PS and PS2 strategy, they add a blue ray player and backwards compatibility. Nintendo to them is no longer much of a threat. So at instead they attack Microsoft, in hopes of keeping their core audience and providing a vastly superior video game experience. Once again the PS3 is overhyped. This time however the price is just too much for many core gamers and nearly all of the casuals. I am sure many core gamers would have just waited things out, but Sony got desperate and dropped their biggest feature, backwards compatibility, in order to cut cost. Sony's move failed. The PS3's library just isn't good enough to stand on its own yet.

If anyone has gone back on their words it is Sony. Nintendo is just doing what it is always done. In fact Microsoft has recently attempted to draw in these casual players. The only one really holding back is Sony. I think they are in shock that they are losing, so they hide behind a ten year plan.

Wii is doing well because of the new controls and the new market. Xbox is doing well because of their money hatting. PS3 is doing poorly because Xbox is stealing their core audience and Wii has the casual market.

The attach rate thing that someone brought is grossly exaggerated. First of all the Microsoft consoles have always had the best attach rating. I believe this is due the fact that their demographic is so centralized and that there are only a few "must have games." Secondly the Wii isn't that far behind in terms of attach rating. If I recall, Xbox has an attach of about 8 and the Wii is in second with an attach rate of just over 7. That is pretty good considering how diverse the Wii's demographics are.

TL;DR Gamecube and 64 sucked, Nintendo finally does something right and the fanboys jump ship.

Anyway back to the topic. I really don't find this to be a big deal. Though it does raise the question as to how COD got an update. Also the storage issue should be fixed sometime this year. Iwata has heard are complaints and is set to fix them. As far as DLC goes, I generally find it to be worthless with the exception of music games. Give us a full game at launch. Also fixing a fighter games problems could change the game drastically. It would suck to have to start over everytime they change the game to their liking.

 

[PityLord]

Also kinda on topic. Did anyone notice the Wii Want More thingy? Aperently in May we can get 4 more characters and 2 more stages for Brawl :D.

 

[Levitas]

I'm sad that in the small portion of this thread I've browsed since reading the article, the most reasonable solution was based in the gaming community making the games better.

Isn't it the gaming company's responsibility to make the games and the community's purpose to play them?

This indicates a MAJOR failure on the part of Nintendo to keep providing us with their media. Honestly, I've probably bought 5 DS games since the last time I bought a single game for Wii.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Also kinda on topic. Did anyone notice the Wii Want More thingy? Aperently in May we can get 4 more characters and 2 more stages for Brawl :D.

Fake Fake fake. That was an April Fools Day joke LAST YEAR...

 

[PityLord]

Fake Fake fake. That was an April Fools Day joke LAST YEAR...

Ok I didnt hear it on april fools so I got fooled later lol .

 

[fwb]

Wii MotionPlus

/thread

 

[GHNeko]

Wii MotionPlus

/thread

That really doesnt have anything to do with the console software, but the actual software inside the remote. The remote has memory. How else does it story Mii and Brawl Names?

 

[Sukai]

Something people have to live with.
The Wii wasn't designed for an in depth cult following like the 360 and PS3, it was designed for families for them to have fun--as a family.
Of course notwithstanding third party developers, the Wii's base went off of that one concept, it's not entirely fair to expect the same out of this console, when the muse for this console was not the same as the others.
Not that I'm defending them, the concept--although financially effective--is not the best to improve their already lasting fans' community.

Plus, since when did people worry about firmware updates before now???
No one complained in any other gaming generation, although it's natural to increase your standards with better quality, it's not like this is a huge deal, like seriously....
Everyone knew from the start that the Wii had (for lack of a better suitable word) outdated hardware, and thus was going to make outdated software, a further insight shouldn't change much about your standing feelings.
I didn't buy a Wii because I thought Nintendo was able to give out patches to liven up my "gaming experience"--not that I'm saying I did, but the point remains, you buy a console for the games, not for it's updating capability--or lack of one.

Nice read, but people here are taking this waaaay to seriously.

 

[GHNeko]

Something people have to live with.
The Wii wasn't designed for an in depth cult following like the 360 and PS3, it was designed for families for them to have fun--as a family.
Of course notwithstanding third party developers, the Wii's base went off of that one concept, it's not entirely fair to expect the same out of this console, when the muse for this console was not the same as the others.
Not that I'm defending them, the concept--although financially effective--is not the best to improve their already lasting fans' community.

What what? What does the console poor architecture have to do with it being a core gamer console or a family console? That just plain silly. By giving the console a good platform, that would be better all around. No matter who it was designed for. It would give Nintendo the ability to make the console even more family friendly because they could just update the platform like the 360/PS3 with new family friendly features ie Music Player/DVD Player/More Format support for the picture viewer/old games with more controller support. The list goes on.

The console platform affects everyone, though it affects core gamers more because that's who push its capabilities the hardest and demand the most. Financially, at first, it could be costly, but being the "marketing geniuses" that the guys at Nintendo are. They could update the architecture and release more things to sell to the casual market.

Plus, since when did people worry about firmware updates before now???
No one complained in any other gaming generation, although it's natural to increase your standards with better quality, it's not like this is a huge deal, like seriously....
Everyone knew from the start that the Wii had (for lack of a better suitable word) outdated hardware, and thus was going to make outdated software, a further insight shouldn't change much about your standing feelings.
I didn't buy a Wii because I thought Nintendo was able to give out patches to liven up my "gaming experience"--not that I'm saying I did, but the point remains, you buy a console for the games, not for it's updating capability--or lack of one.

Nice read, but people here are taking this waaaay to seriously.

Outdated hardware doesnt mean that you have to run outdated software. Look at the PSP Fat. The hardware is outdated compared to the PSP Slim and PSP-3000, but they still update the firmware on that. Big N easily could of created software that was easily up to date and up to par on that overclocked gamecube with waggle.

Yes, you buy a console for games, but what makes a console and its library ultimately better is a console that updates its games. SCIV on 360 gets patched. Multiple games on 360 and PS3 get DLC. Those make older games better and increase lifespan. That increases the fan base and overall satisfaction. That increases your chance of them buying your next console and the sequal/spin off of the game.

Yes. There less than meaningful updates to consoles and firmwares, but you know what. YOu know what updates do matter? The ones that make gaming that much better. Would I like to listen to my music that I put on my console while playing my favorite game? **** yes I would. Would I download an update do the console OS to do so? In a god **** heart beat. That enriches my gaming experience and makes me want to continue following the company that gave me such awesomeness.

Nintendo failed to do this. And the word is out. I have less respect for Iwata and his Tech Team because they're just halfassing around now.

Dont care if they're supposed to be making money. Giving a console a proper OS increases overall experience from both sides of the market because of potential. You suddenly come up with a new idea (PSP and PS3 remote play with PSX and what not) or suddenly want to supercharge the user experience? (NXE for 360). You ****ing do that **** and watch how happy the consumer because with his closet full of extra **** that only he cares about and how the gamer gets happy with patches to his favorite game.

 

[Sukai]

What what? What does the console poor architecture have to do with it being a core gamer console or a family console? That just plain silly. By giving the console a good platform, that would be better all around. No matter who it was designed for. It would give Nintendo the ability to make the console even more family friendly because they could just update the platform like the 360/PS3 with new family friendly features ie Music Player/DVD Player/More Format support for the picture viewer/old games with more controller support. The list goes on.

But then it goes outside of being a game console.
Allow me to elaborate a bit more, perhaps from the oh-so-surreal company standpoint.
You have your demographic, now it is your job to work within appeasing that demographic, yes adding more does sound like a treat, but there is little point spending more money developing features that won't be used often by the targeted demographic.
Families don't buy game consoles to watch dvds or listen to music, debate on that as you please, but seriously, no casual gamer buys a console with hopes of watching a DVD on it, it's a **** neat bonus, but not a must have for a casual gamer.
The architecture of the console was made to optimize appeasing the
targeted demographic.
Take the "Girl Tech" toys, the design and general appeal to that stuff is designed for you stereotype adolescent female, not for boys who wouldn't normally sway to it. Yeah it would be nice to include features meant to a appeal to males, but there is little point when you're trying to appeal to girls.
How many casual gamers buy a 360/PS3 to play the games on a friday night with their family? That is because the 360/PS3 are to appeal to non-casuals.

The console platform affects everyone, though it affects core gamers more because that's who push its capabilities the hardest and demand the most. Financially, at first, it could be costly, but being the "marketing geniuses" that the guys at Nintendo are. They could update the architecture and release more things to sell to the casual market.

Which isn't necessary is what they're getting now is enough. That's some wishful thinking there, but be honest, was Microsoft or Sony pulling out all the stops when they rushed their consoles to the market with second rate hardware production? A bit unrelated, true, but the fact remains that a companies go for profit. Appeal is an element to gaining more profit, but no company operates for appeal alone, so to make the best profit, their appeal is targeted most at their selected demographic. Now to meet the demands of appeal, they released the consoles before they were properly bug tested, and we all know what happened afterwards.
Sony had to recall all their consoles and the RRoD is still an issue 3 years in the Xbox 360's lifespan. The moral of the story: if what you said is completely true, from Nintendo's perspective, they did everything perfectly by avoiding alot of other things. I guess I strayed a bit here, but my point is firmware updates are not mandatory to a console's success, it's nice touch--a very nice touch, but it's not mandatory, if it was, then the Wii wouldn't be the best selling console to date and still running--in both the US and Japan mind you.
If you want to take advertising into consideration, see this---casual consumers don't care much for specs, when they're buying something, they just want to know what it does, not specifically how capable it is of it.
Seriously, would a casual consumer know anything about--Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E7300, 4 GB Memory, 640GB hard drive (1530-115B/SE198WFP/NX105)??
Those are computer specs, but thats the perfect example, all they care about is if they can check their email and download crap.
It's surprising how many people don't know what Computer Memory is, they confuse it for Storage, but thats a different story. They don't care about specs. Even most non-casuals don't care about specs, if the graphics are good thats enough for them.

Outdated hardware doesnt mean that you have to run outdated software.

I'm referring strictly to the Wii, not anything else.
With limited developing capabilities, it can't evolve much beyond outdated.

Yes, you buy a console for games, but what makes a console and its library ultimately better is a console that updates its games. SCIV on 360 gets patched. Multiple games on 360 and PS3 get DLC. Those make older games better and increase lifespan. That increases the fan base and overall satisfaction. That increases your chance of them buying your next console and the sequal/spin off of the game.

Yes. There less than meaningful updates to consoles and firmwares, but you know what. YOu know what updates do matter? The ones that make gaming that much better. Would I like to listen to my music that I put on my console while playing my favorite game? **** yes I would. Would I download an update do the console OS to do so? In a god **** heart beat. That enriches my gaming experience and makes me want to continue following the company that gave me such awesomeness.

You know, you just proved my previous statement about people increasing their standards with better service, but at the same time it's not like it was a huge problem any time before now, sometimes with game glitches the company won't even care to offer an update, I've seen updates for games that centered around online multiplayer to get rid of glitches, thats about it, not that big of a deal again. It would be great as hell to see Nintendo patch the laggy wifi, but--oh well.
The game was designed to be strictly uncompetitive.
You think that a casual player would care much about lag, when he's having a free for all with his friends across the street on wifi with items on?
If thats to theoretical for you to accept, Sakurai didn't like the competitive scene, do you think he'd go out of his way to fix the wifi for us serious gamers (assuming he could)?
Think about this, not being a casual gamer, we were not the targeted demographic for this game, so it's understandable that it would not entirely appeal to us.
it is true in a sense that all smash games targeted casual gamers, but Brawl was deliberately designed to be noncompetitive, unlike Melee or 64.
Big mistake on Sora's end, but whatever.

Nintendo failed to do this. And the word is out. I have less respect for Iwata and his Tech Team because they're just halfassing around now.

Dont care if they're supposed to be making money. Giving a console a proper OS increases overall experience from both sides of the market because of potential. You suddenly come up with a new idea (PSP and PS3 remote play with PSX and what not) or suddenly want to supercharge the user experience? (NXE for 360). You ****ing do that **** and watch how happy the consumer because with his closet full of extra **** that only he cares about and how the gamer gets happy with patches to his favorite game.

I can understand your rage, but it isn't that big of a deal.
I have an Xbox, although the NXE makes for better eye candy, the convenience isn't that great, it's something that people would have had no problem living without it.
But the Xbox and Playstation are targeted to non casuals, so thats understandable.
On a side note, some Wii Shop Channel games (not virtual console) have downloadable content.

This all come back to the very first thing I said.

Something we have to live with.
So live with it, or sell your Wii, doesn't matter.​

 

[GHNeko]

But then it goes outside of being a game console.
Allow me to elaborate a bit more, perhaps from the oh-so-surreal company standpoint.
You have your demographic, now it is your job to work within appeasing that demographic, yes adding more does sound like a treat, but there is little point spending more money developing features that won't be used often by the targeted demographic.
Families don't buy game consoles to watch dvds or listen to music, debate on that as you please, but seriously, no casual gamer buys a console with hopes of watching a DVD on it, it's a **** neat bonus, but not a must have for a casual gamer.
The architecture of the console was made to optimize appeasing the
targeted demographic.
Take the "Girl Tech" toys, the design and general appeal to that stuff is designed for you stereotype adolescent female, not for boys who wouldn't normally sway to it. Yeah it would be nice to include features meant to a appeal to males, but there is little point when you're trying to appeal to girls.
How many casual gamers buy a 360/PS3 to play the games on a friday night with their family? That is because the 360/PS3 are to appeal to non-casuals.

That's still completely besides the point. It's having the ability to do so incase there is enough demand for something. Casual gamers dont normally want their consoles to do everything, but that doesnt mean the majority/minority/half can't request a feature that can be easily added through a OS update. The main core demographic of the 360/PS3 might be aimed at non-casuals, but they have the capability to update and upgrade OS wise in order to pull in more of casual demographic. Of course, they wont change the main focus, but as a buisness, pulling in more people means more profit. That's why having an OS in which you can update and patch is ultimately win win. You can add things peole want with enough demand. Hell, if enough people screamed for it, they'd add a DVD player function through patching and what not. What the people don't want don't become standard features, but with demand they can become addon to appeal to the miniority who DO want it. Look at Nintendo's console. There was enough of a demand for DVD playback that the homebrew scene made it possible. Why? Its really convienet for console owners and people who dont have DVD player. Or better yet, console owners who travel. Its not a standard feature, but the ability to have it patched to the console made the console that much better. Granted its an unofficial patch, but you see the point.

Which isn't necessary is what they're getting now is enough. That's some wishful thinking there, but be honest, was Microsoft or Sony pulling out all the stops when they rushed their consoles to the market with second rate hardware production? A bit unrelated, true, but the fact remains that a companies go for profit. Appeal is an element to gaining more profit, but no company operates for appeal alone, so to make the best profit, their appeal is targeted most at their selected demographic. Now to meet the demands of appeal, they released the consoles before they were properly bug tested, and we all know what happened afterwards.
Sony had to recall all their consoles and the RRoD is still an issue 3 years in the Xbox 360's lifespan. The moral of the story: if what you said is completely true, from Nintendo's perspective, they did everything perfectly by avoiding alot of other things. I guess I strayed a bit here, but my point is firmware updates are not mandatory to a console's success, it's nice touch--a very nice touch, but it's not mandatory, if it was, then the Wii wouldn't be the best selling console to date and still running--in both the US and Japan mind you.
If you want to take advertising into consideration, see this---casual consumers don't care much for specs, when they're buying something, they just want to know what it does, not specifically how capable it is of it.
Seriously, would a casual consumer know anything about--Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E7300, 4 GB Memory, 640GB hard drive (1530-115B/SE198WFP/NX105)??
Those are computer specs, but thats the perfect example, all they care about is if they can check their email and download crap.
It's surprising how many people don't know what Computer Memory is, they confuse it for Storage, but thats a different story. They don't care about specs. Even most non-casuals don't care about specs, if the graphics are good thats enough for them.

I know casuals dont care about specs. I know firmware updates aren't mandatory. But when they do things such as patch games, add demanded features, and overall improve the experience of the owner. Nothing but good can come out of it for the user. Its a nice touch for a reason. It's a recommended thing as well. Updating firmware gives users access to whole new features. Look at the PSP again. It started out with piss poor features but gained more as updates went along. Yes. It made it more than a portable gaming handheld, but IIRC, a nice section of those features were well welcomed or requested. If they already existed, they were improved upon. Certain things stray from the original intent, I agree, but like you said. They are a buisness. They want profit. There was a small minority of people that bought a PSP for media only. There was a small minority that bought a PSP for media only. If sony simply stuck to their oriignal demo, they would of lost of money. I know for a while, I used my PSP as a media device because I had nothing else. That simple convienence made the PSP rise in my eyes, and now I give more than two craps about the PSP than I did before.

I'm referring strictly to the Wii, not anything else.
With limited developing capabilities, it can't evolve much beyond outdated.

Regardless, if they had give the console a proper OS, they could of done alot more than what they can do now.

You know, you just proved my previous statement about people increasing their standards with better service, but at the same time it's not like it was a huge problem any time before now, sometimes with game glitches the company won't even care to offer an update, I've seen updates for games that centered around online multiplayer to get rid of glitches, thats about it, not that big of a deal again. It would be great as hell to see Nintendo patch the laggy wifi, but--oh well.
The game was designed to be strictly uncompetitive.
You think that a casual player would care much about lag, when he's having a free for all with his friends across the street on wifi with items on?
If thats to theoretical for you to accept, Sakurai didn't like the competitive scene, do you think he'd go out of his way to fix the wifi for us serious gamers (assuming he could)?
Think about this, not being a casual gamer, we were not the targeted demographic for this game, so it's understandable that it would not entirely appeal to us.
it is true in a sense that all smash games targeted casual gamers, but Brawl was deliberately designed to be noncompetitive, unlike Melee or 64.
Big mistake on Sora's end, but whatever.

What does this have to do with Iwata's consoel and its poor software design? I'm talking about how Nintendo failed to design a proper OS for the console in which they could update like the PS3 and 360 in order to create a more pleasent experience for both demos. You cant even call it an OS. Its not. Its like a fancy bios screen. They deliberately designed the console as such. If the casual demographic could so much as grasp as what that means, I'm sure that would NOT be good for Nintendo.

I can understand your rage, but it isn't that big of a deal.
I have an Xbox, although the NXE makes for better eye candy, the convenience isn't that great, it's something that people would have had no problem living without it.
But the Xbox and Playstation are targeted to non casuals, so thats understandable.
On a side note, some Wii Shop Channel games (not virtual console) have downloadable content.

Regardless, you can't say the your console experience has been ultimately made worse with the update, can you? Can you not do all the things prior and more? The convenience isnt that great, but it isnt horrible nor is it bad according to you. If it so much as even improves your experience by even the most insignificant amount. It's done something good. Now look at all the people who DID love the update compared to the people who probably didnt. The majority probably did and that's good for Microsoft because that means more customer loyalty and more potential sales. Which is what they want in the first place. A buisness has to appeal to succeed.

Updating your console to appeal more cannot be a bad thing. Especially if you can appeal to both demographics. You just have to do it right.

This all come back to the very first thing I said.

Something we have to live with.
So live with it, or sell your Wii, doesn't matter.​

And its pretty unfortunate. I wont sell my console because I enjoy my homebrew apps and updates. It's also a gift, and I do enjoy some Brawl+.

So you know what. I'm going to stay with it on my own terms. Not nintendos.

EDIT: Sorry about typo's and grammar. 0653 hours does not help me at all. x__x

I'm also too tired to correct as well, so bare with me.

 

[Sukai]

That's still completely besides the point.

But see..thats the thing, it's not.
I really can't explain it any further.
A company won't spend more money to make features that will not be used or need to be used often by or for the "core demographic", it's as simple as that.
They could have, but they didn't.

I'm also too tired to correct as well, so bare with me.

We're all human.

 

[GHNeko]

The thing is. There are plenty of features that have been demanded and requested and could of put in from the start. Some hardware based. Some software based. But alot of these things, could and maybe should of been standard. How can you say for sure that they wont be used? How much research has nintendo put into it? None. They designed this console to be a family console? They want it to be the center piece of the living room? How can it be a centerpiece when it lacks features that people do use on a day by day basis? That people use on the opposing consoles? If you have a 360, you don't have a DVD Player in the same room. If you have a PS3, you dont have a Blu Ray in that room. Those consoles dont aim for the casual demographic, but Iwata's console does, yet it lacks casual demographic features that are were standardized by the PS2 and Xbox? What?

The console can play DVDs. It's the standard format. If it had a legit OS, but no DVD Movie play back at launch, the demand from both demographics would of allowed Nintendo to update the console and please both sides, securing more customers and more money, and making them look better.

Auhhal;sdjfdfsd. I'm raging more than I want to know and its 0746 Hours. God I do not like Iwata. His marketing skills are superb, but his viewpoints and ideology are just plain ridiculous. All I know is that he purposely made the console like this, locking out the potential to appeal to both core and causal and generally acting silly.

Eff this. I'm going to bed.


EDIT: And the funny thing is. With the DSI, they are trying to make the DSi an personalized object that the owner can't leave home without. They gave it a whole bunch of unnessecary features such as 2 cameras and photo manipulatiobn. Musicplay back (Why AAC only, only god knows.) Wifi Picture transfer, and a whole bunch of casual gimmics, while removing the GBA compatitiblity of the DS.

How in the hell are they pulling this kind of theme but not the same theme with their own console? Makes no sense.

 

[DarkISDA]

People are free to list good PS3 exclusives to prove me wrong. Note that games that are also on the Xbox360 don't count. Please try to limit the number of boring gun games on your list (Resistance). Listing games that aren't out yet doesn't help you much either; it's not like every console doesn't have good games on the way.

It's not only about the game, or the price of the console, but the long term cost! If you plan on playing on the internet but you don't like that much, let's say, Halo 3 or Gears of War, PS3 will cost way less than the 360, since you don't have to pay anything to play online. The difference is a 100 $? 360 gets it back in 5-6 months, then a year after, 100$+ over the PS3. Seriously, the PS3 for me is better as a money saver than the 360.

And for the exclusif games: Disgaea 3, resistance (I don't care about your limit, it's still exclusif), killzone 3, the future Final Fantasy Versus XIII, God of War, Ratchet & Clank, MGS4 (obviously, best game ever so far), Motorsport, Gran Turismo 5, and more.