Why do people think Charizard sucks?

[Charizard92]

How can you be too Powerful any way?! Besides, StarFox characters are a pain, but close in on them and prevent chain grabs and they don't tend to keep their paddle.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

yeah charizard is one of the characters that get the most trouble when faicing a camper(learned that the hard way with a FBspaming zelda) because your aproach is ***** by a camping character, i try avoiding that problem by jumping or flamethrowing, but jumping with zard is risky because his air game is worst that his gorund game, and FT involves standing , and your oponent can do something to punish you, also any of these options serves very well against many proyectiles (think zeldas Fb) , when that happens, i ratter switch to squirtle, because zard can take a lot of damage in that way. That may be a reason for the people saying that charizard sucks (there is MANY people who loves spamming proyeciles)

 

[Charizard92]

Fair, that works somewhat, besides, each character has problems with another type of character, annoyers will have problems KOing/surviving titans due to poor strength and weight, campers have problems nailing characters who can jump over their projectiles, and campers can keep tanks at bay (except in a P. Trainer vs P. Trainer, then it is reversed). Brawl is different than Melee because this rock-paper-scissors type balance is diluted, meaning if there are problems, they aren't big.

 

[TheLake]

The only thing charizard sucks at is sucking.

He head buts rocks for christ sake.

 

[Leahdybug]

Brawl is different than Melee because this rock-paper-scissors type balance is diluted, meaning if there are problems, they aren't big.

thats exactly what I think of course im nto pretending things are all sunshine.

 

[Charizard92]

See people who don't think Charizard isn't good, this thread is made to change your mind and there are alot of people visiting here. I am actually heard!

 

[Alfonzo]

Charizard is my best of the 3. I bring him in as either my starter or in later in the game and just annihilate them with combos and such. He reminds me of Bowser, which I mained for a while, so using him is like second nature.

 

[Charizard92]

In a stock match, I always make sure Charizard is last, even if he has to go first. The way I switch is that after each KO I switch, so KO, switch, repeat. It works too.

 

[manhunter098]

Well I play a bit of PT, but I like Ivysaur and Squirtle, Ivy's just makes for great fun with Bullet Seed and Squirtle has one of the most fun aerial games of any characters.

In my eyes I dont like Charizards jumping speed too much, it takes him too long to get off the ground and execute aerials, which just kind of annoys me, hes a lovely target for getting comboed, juggled, etc too. I can agree when you say hes not slow, but running speed only really helps with combos, the speed at which you can execute attacks is extremely important and aside from a couple moves, Charizard is definitely lacking there.

 

[Charizard92]

HOW much lag is slow?! I don't see it, nor do I see the problems in jumping speed. The large size is more apparent, did you read the earlier posts?!

 

[Homelessvagrant]

people need to learn how to use Charizard right. Charizard can be slow but he can also dish out some fast attacks too and his ground speed is down right amazing for a heavyweight. I'm best with squirtle but Charizard was the first one I learned how to use competitively really. His attacks have great range, rock smash has massive damage with it, flamethrower really racks up damage if you use it correctly and some moves like dtilt and ftilt come at amazing speed have great range and challenge the power of a smash attack.

The only problem I have with him is that he is a big target. But even that can be overcome with the right manuevers and strategy. All of Pts pokemon are equal in my opinion, Pt players just haven't been taking the spotlight as of yet because maining three character and learning the advanced properties of three character and their innerworkings, symbiosis and strattegy takes longer han picking one character and learning old school style.

 

[infernovia]

The one thing I still can't get over is Fair's phantom hit. When I use it right, its like super amazing, but a lot of time it just whiffs.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Just to add to the thread, getting someone caught in Charizard's Flamethrower is the equivalent of Bullet Seed.

 

[SuPeRCuSsIoN]

honestly, all three of them are really really good. they could be all used for specific characters. i really like charizard, his aerials can be auto cancelled making him fast if u know how to use him. as lame as it sounds his flamethrower racks up damage, fast. trap them in that and you can do a fsmash to death.

 

[Charizard92]

Yes, the reason P. Trainer is hard to use is because unlike the other two multi fighters (Zelda/Shiek and Samus/ZSS) you have to master all three of them. I typically fight a lvl 3 (default cpu) opponent, but I do well against some human and higher difficulty opponents. Against a lvl 9 however, Charizard was the first (and only) one I can use without dying multiple times. This is in complete contrast to those nay sayers who think he is pathetic due to his size, but it is even possible to juggle tiny Squirtle. See what I mean, his weakness is shared by all characters, it is just more exploitable.

 

[infernovia]

Except its REALLY tough to juggle a decent squirtle while any decent Charizard will still get juggled. Also its possible to chaingrab him and he gets hit a lot more hits than normal. Usually, a rocksmash to the face would answer all that, but you need to mindgame it.

Basically, you already got your answer. Charizard is an awesome character, we know, but his weakness is more noticeable when you are starting out.

 

[chubas]

The one thing I still can't get over is Fair's phantom hit. When I use it right, its like super amazing, but a lot of time it just whiffs.

I hate that, maybe because I find it annoying for my style. If I try to space my fair, long range attacks just buff me (hello ). If not, I just get shield grabbed. A difficult move to use effectively IMO. If I see a good chance, I prefer to SH into a Rock Smash instead of Fairing. But that doesn't happen that often...

 

[Tenki]

Yes, the reason P. Trainer is hard to use is because unlike the other two multi fighters (Zelda/Shiek and Samus/ZSS) you have to master all three of them. I typically fight a lvl 3 (default cpu) opponent, but I do well against some human and higher difficulty opponents. Against a lvl 9 however, Charizard was the first (and only) one I can use without dying multiple times. This is in complete contrast to those nay sayers who think he is pathetic due to his size, but it is even possible to juggle tiny Squirtle. See what I mean, his weakness is shared by all characters, it is just more exploitable.

fighting lvl 3s is actually not a bad thing for pracitcing against humans.

They don't have the insane dodge reflex that lvl 9s do, and you can practice followup moves on them. Practicing against a reflex dodger might be okay-practice, but knowing what you can follow moves with is much more valuable

I moved/changed mains going from the slower characters (Ike --> Ganon...) and somehow ended up on Sonic. But Charizard is definitely not that slow, at least compared to them. He's about the same weight as Snake or Donkey Kong (~10% lighter than Ike/D3).

It definitely is a big momentum change for people who started off with the 'high tier' Squirtle. The change of playstyle going from a fast to slow character could have been overwhelming to people at first.

Also, F-air's super knockback comes if you get the initial hit to work >_>

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Thats right, a lot of PT mains use squirtle, who is VERY diferent to charizard, and maybe that ruins their game, bit i think all those peolpe will eventually learn how to use well all the three pokemon and so charizard will have his reputation back . For the fair, its perfect when someone is going to you in the air thinking they can still hitting charizard, so a well timed fair(or bair if facing the opositte direction) can turn upside down the match in your favor, and last, yeah, charizard has a very strange jumping and falling speed, but you just have to get it used to it, and i feel like his jumps are very short(fortunatelly there are three of them, gliding and fly)

 

[manhunter098]

HOW much lag is slow?! I don't see it, nor do I see the problems in jumping speed. The large size is more apparent, did you read the earlier posts?!

Maybe its not jump speed but the amount you can actually DI when you short hop an aerial. It just feels very awkward using short hopped aerials with Charizard. Ivysuar and Squirtle on the other hand can do a lot of nice moves out of shield, Charizard has up B there, but you dont want to use that until its time to KO since you dont want to diminish the knockback.

 

[Charizard92]

Maybe it is a bad thing that the moment I turned on the power button I went to the SSE (the reason I did was to unlock every character). In the SSE (if you haven't played it yet), when the P. Trainer joins your team, you play as only the simplest of the three to use, Squirtle, while you get Charizard last, (and the only level story wise that you play as him before the entrance to subspace is the ruined hall in a boss fight against Galleom) which could either hamper one's ability to master Charizard or improve one's ability to understand Squirtle. Either way, Squirtle is often on top and Charizard is below, so training and lvl 3s are the best way to master him.

 

[Tenki]

Since this seems to be the "Charizard character discussion" topic, in a sense,

do any of you who are competent with Charizard incorporate glide/glide attack into your games?

 

[manhunter098]

Well even though I dont like him too much, I do find Charizards glide attack to be useful. Im pretty sure there is a combo with it too, but I havent tried that yet. Its quite powerful though and it comes out fast, so I would say its a good move.

 

[Arcanejazz]

honestly, I think all three pokemon are awesome individually. Ive played Kish Prime and Jeckyl, who both have been playing a lot of PT (Prime mostly using Ivysaur, and Jeckyl almost exclusively Charizard)

The real problem isnt any of the pokemon sucking really, its the fact that after however many seconds (i think its 90 but dont quote me on that) they get "tired" and HAVE to switch out because all their attacks become bad. If the three pokemon of PT were all seperate characters, theyd all be amazing in different ways.

Anyway, on to Charizard specifically, he really doesnt suck. Hes kinda slow, but by no means sluggish (see: Ganon). He has a couple of really awesome properties. Ill come back and talk about him more when ive gone back and tested him and talked to some of my buddies about him specifically.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

It is not HAVING to switch that is the problem, it's switching itself. It leaves you open to so many attacks that it is not even funny, so you have to knock your opponent away first, which is a problem because fatigue reduces your power, making this task difficult.

 

[Arcanejazz]

well, one problem is the result of the other. if it werent for the fatigue thing, then switching wouldnt be an issue. they go hand in hand here.

without weakened attacks, you could knock them away and make the switch if you wanted (zleda/shiek manages to get away with it easily enough it seems), or you could choose to main a single pokemon. itd be like a 3 character the way zelda-shiek is a 2 character.

i dont bring up samus here because you cant switch back and forth whenever you want, obviously xD

in any case, this sorta goes off topic. the focus of this thread is supposed to be charizard, so maybe we should analyze him while ignoring the other pokemon, switching, and fatigue.

 

[Charizard92]

It is essential to use all three Pokemon to win a fight, the fatigue is there to make you switch.

 

[Tenki]

Just wondering:

-Do you switch Pokemon in the middle of a stock?
-What role do you use Charizard for/How early do you use him? (If yes to the first, question, what situations do you use Charizard for?; If no, which stocks do you tend to use him for?)

I used to do PKMN switches during fights, saving Charizard for last, but recently, I've just sent him out first and let him deal damage/kills as a shock trooper until he dies. I'm thinking of using Ivysaur for that role now, as it has good spacing ability and strong KO moves. It also flows straight into Charizard when it dies/changes, so I get to sorta use the 'best' for last, so if things don't go too well with Ivy, Charizard can pick up the pieces. Also, I suck with Squirtle :[

 

[manhunter098]

I would say the only times you should switch Pokemon in the middle of a stock are when you are faced with an opponent who's style of play doesnt let you use the Pokemon you currently have out effectively, basically if they are whooping you. Also if you want to change it up so your opponent doesnt know as well what to expect anymore. The thing with Pokemon trainer is that you can switch between 3 characters that each have an immensely different style of play, so you can always keep your opponent from getting too used to the way that you play. I cant really think of any other times it would be worthwhile to switch.

 

[Charizard92]

I don't typically switch during stock, and because Charizard is my favorite, I typically make sure He's last, even if that means he's first.

 

[fire_wulf]

I do change during stock. It is a way to throw the opponent off to whatever strategy you have been using. I typically start with Ivy and rack up a lot of damage. The only problem is that my opponents can see Ivy's KO moves coming from a mile away and usually have an easy time gimping him. So what i do is rack up a ton of damage.. try to get off a good Fair and while they are recovering.. switch to Charizard. This allows me to bring in a different style of play... and fresh moves that haven't been diminished. I will use these fresh moves to get the kill and most likely Charizard will be at high damage. that is when i keep him out and try to get off a flamethrower or rock smash to get the damage back up quickly. Charizards ability to stay alive is crucial at this point allowing you to rack up damage and maybe even get the kill. I keep Charizard out till he dies cuz sending in Squirtle at high damage is just suicide. Use the little guy to get damage up and if you are having trouble getting the kill... switch again and change things up with fresh moves.

The switch is vital for throwing off your opponents thought of how you play and allowing you to forget about diminishing attacks. I use the switch with Ivy and Squirtle... but never charizard.

 

[Charizard92]

I do, besides, in a four stock match, I don't typically take damage till I switch to squitrle anyway.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Well normally i start with ivysaur, rack up damege as much a si can and if there is the chance i try by all the means get a ko with him, but sometimes i switch to charizard before getting the kill, it all dependes of how well i am doing with ivysaur, if ivy is owning my oponent i keep trying to ko him, but if ivy is on high percent and the fight looks going wrong, i switch to zard to turn the things upside down, then i keep him until he dies ,then squirtle appears and makes his job, normally i fight my second stock betwen him and ivysair, and i have charizard for last, he has helped me to win sooooo much matches that already were meant to be lost.....

 

[enemyoftime]

THe only reason that people say charizard sucks is b/c he is slow and easy to avoid I.E. Ganondorf Syndrome. Example: Everytime my friend plays pokemon Trainer he strats as charizard, He ends up switching b/c I end up running circles around him as Kirby.

 

[Leahdybug]

Ive been thinking about taking out ivy or Charizard mainly first, when I play. Anyone who brings out Charizard that I play first, gives me a difficulty at first. I went to my first tournament (which could be the reason Im jsut not that experienced playing really experienced players) I had a hard time switching but Im super defensive and with an 8 min time limit playing squirlte first I cant kill (hydro planning might help but i place my kills in downthrow because it might kill and if not it gives me time to change if i feel i need to) and it really puts pressure on me. Weres Chairzard Im sure I could get a kill. However, I use squirtle one for mind games no one knows wtf my squirtles going to do. So Squirtle Gives me the opportunity to really test out my opponenet in the first match with out them keeping up. (This of course changes with people but is my general style.)

 

[Charizard92]

They clearly don't know that Charizard is fast and I have a way with dealing with you people. Step 1, once they come in I use flamethrower (if they don't come in, replace with Fair or Rock smash). Step two, send off stage (from rock smash or forward smash) (add flamethrower if not already used). Step three, once off stage, smash before grabbing onto ledge (they typically go upwards, but in case they go short) boom, a KO.

 

[Leahdybug]

* ^^ ah sorry bump*

 

[Charizard92]

What is that supposed to mean?!

 

[Arcanejazz]

after playing all weekend, these are reasons i think charizard is great:

1. very fast considering the power he pulls
2. rock smash appears to have super armor
3. f-air ledge guard (dont know if its the best tactic but it was working great this weekend)
4. really heavy
5. gliding despite that weight
6. a flame thrower you can aim with

those are the ones that i immediately think of. all those things in a single character seem pretty awesome. but this is just opinionated observation, maybe im wrong. im no PT expert.

 

[Exia 00]

people think charizard suckz?........
i dont know why but he seems to be
my fav out of the three pokemon