Why Greninja getting into Smash Bros makes sense (whether you like it or not)

[HugoBoss]

Ninja.
Frog.

 

[Dracometeor]

They already have a fire type and they already have a fighting type. Greninja is the only starter in Kali's unique typing for smash

 

[Snagrio]

One thing that must be taken out of the equation, as stated several times already, is that Greninja's current popularity had nothing to do with his inclusion. He was chosen way before anyone even know of X/Y's existence. Sakurai stated that he put together a moveset for him in less then a day, so in all likelihood Game Freak consulted him and said, "Here's the starters. We believe the Water type will become the most popular, so use him." "Okay."

 

[BunnyBoy1337]

I personally would've liked Swampert to be in Smash 4 instead of Greninja. So I heard you like Mudkips?

 

[Dracometeor]

Nobody likes Swampert.... It should have been Torkoal.

 

[Arcanir]

One thing that must be taken out of the equation, as stated several times already, is that Greninja's current popularity had nothing to do with his inclusion. He was chosen way before anyone even know of X/Y's existence. Sakurai stated that he put together a moveset for him in less then a day, so in all likelihood Game Freak consulted him and said, "Here's the starters. We believe the Water type will become the most popular, so use him." "Okay."

Actually from the sound of it, it was Sakurai and his team's decision to put him in, not GF (though obviously, they had to have given the OK). In this article, he states that he had a conversation with his team and they pointed out how Greninja would fit in well with the Smash environment, so they gathered up their references and worked on the character as soon as possible. GF by comparison was barely mentioned outside of giving him what he needed to make the character, so it seems that their involvement sounded rather limited whereas the character getting in was played up as a team decision by picking him out from the crowd and going from there.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I think Gamefreak intended to make him the most popular in order to justify his inclusion. Kids think ninjas are cool, and they gave him a great ability to satiate the older fans.

 

[Jmacz]

Well if you look at it, Greninja is the most suitable water starter for Smash. Blastoise, Feraligator, Marshtomp, Empoleon, and Samurott would all make for awkward characters besides maybe Empoleon. Feraligator may work to but I feel like he would play to similar to Bowser but with water.

As for Delphox not getting in, there is a lot of competition in the fire starter department. And even though Delphox was still liked, it is still less popular than Charizard, Blaziken, and Infernape. All of which have suitable designs for Smash.

As for Chesnaught, I know I'm not the only one who didn't like his design, the shell on his back makes him look awkward. I'm obviously pulling for Sceptile. I'm willing to guess Chesnaught may of been shortly considered, but if they knew ORAS was going to be made Sceptile probably looked like a better choice.

 

[L9999]

He is suitable in Smash Bros. and he is one of the best Gen 6 Pokemon.

 

[Brother AJ]

As much as I've grown fond of him/her I'll feel better about the little ninja frog's inclusion once we get a grass type confirmed (Hopefully Sceptile). It just feels incomplete otherwise IMHO. Charizard would of made sense by himself, but that's because he's become a legend at this point. He's such a famous and recognizable 'mon that he stands right along side Pikachu in terms of popularity.

 

[jigglover]

You guys know that popularity has nothing to do with it, right? The roster was chosen a long time before X and Y were released. As in, Sakurai made Greninja completely from beta data and concept art. It was actually GameFreak who chose Greninja to be in Smash as their Pokemon X and Y representative. As Sakurai stated in the E3 Round House, he just asked for an X and Y rep from GameFreak, and Greninja is who he got in return.

So all of this popularity speculation etc. is useless. Greninja got in because GameFreak gave the frog to Sakurai. I suppose he was one of the earliest designed Pokemon..?

 

[Dracometeor]

Game freak sent list, Sakurai and team picked their favorite. That's how.

 

[Brother AJ]

You guys know that popularity has nothing to do with it, right? The roster was chosen a long time before X and Y were released. As in, Sakurai made Greninja completely from beta data and concept art. It was actually GameFreak who chose Greninja to be in Smash as their Pokemon X and Y representative. As Sakurai stated in the E3 Round House, he just asked for an X and Y rep from GameFreak, and Greninja is who he got in return.

So all of this popularity speculation etc. is useless. Greninja got in because GameFreak gave the frog to Sakurai. I suppose he was one of the earliest designed Pokemon..?

That's very interesting actually. Do you have a link to support this by chance?

 

[Arcanir]

That's very interesting actually. Do you have a link to support this by chance?

Here you go!

Though as mentioned above, the team picked their favorite from the concept art they got, it wasn't said that GF picked him out for the team.

 

[jigglover]

That's very interesting actually. Do you have a link to support this by chance?

I've just been searching all around the internet for a good 15-20 minutes and the best I've got is this.

"Q: When was Greninja added to the roster? #nintendo#roundtable#e3

A: All characters were decided at the beginning of development. Even that Pokemon slot for Greninja. Well before X/Y came out." He said this at the E3 Roundtable but for some reason the full audio YouTube video has been made private. Sakurai had a much lengthier answer than what I posted there...

Oh, thanks @ Arcanir ! I guess I just can't google properly 9.9.

But could you point me to where in the answer it says that Greninja wasn't given to him by GF?

 

[Snagrio]

Actually from the sound of it, it was Sakurai and his team's decision to put him in, not GF (though obviously, they had to have given the OK). In this article, he states that he had a conversation with his team and they pointed out how Greninja would fit in well with the Smash environment, so they gathered up their references and worked on the character as soon as possible. GF by comparison was barely mentioned outside of giving him what he needed to make the character, so it seems that their involvement sounded rather limited whereas the character getting in was played up as a team decision by picking him out from the crowd and going from there.

Eh, either way it's evident that Greninja was chosen because of his design which looks cool plus automatically lends itself to easy Smash transition.

 

[Arcanir]

But could you point me to where in the answer it says that Greninja wasn't given to him by GF?

Here's what Sakurai said:

“Oh, well, actually what they did is they said “You know, hey, here’s our… our Pokemon slot,” and then they said “let’s make sure that we have that and then we will fill it in.” However, if we decided at that point to wait for [the release of Pokemon] X and Y we would not have made it in time.”

“Actually, you know, we had a conversation within our development staff quite before that. We said “Hey, listen take a look at this, Greninja, and see is this a character that we think would work well and we had that session well in advance of X and Y. And you know, of course, since we did this way, again, way in advance of X and Y we… we’re doing it… sort of our reference materials were just some drawings at that point. The character that we’re seeing in the game right now is something that I took a really, pretty heavy hand in working on, again, because some of the information did come in late for us.”

I also found this quote from GameXplain's twitter from when posting the Q&A, but it may've been a summary of the above:

Q: When was Greninja chosen to be added? When did they decide to include Greninja?
A: All of the characters to consider were on our internal roster from the beginning of development. We had a slot for a new Pokemon reserved, but did not way for X and Y. We decided to use Greninja well before X/Y came out, based on early reference drawings.

So from the sound of it, Sakurai and his team reserved a general slot for a Pokémon from XY and because they didn't want to wait, they got concept art for some of the Pokémon from XY. Then after looking over it, they saw Greninja and picked him out because they thought he worked perfectly in the Smash environment. GF/The Pokémon Company was mentioned later on in the article, but not as the reason the character was picked, but rather being the provider of the reference materials they needed to make the character for the game.

Eh, either way it's evident that Greninja was chosen because of his design which looks cool plus automatically lends itself to easy Smash transition.

Pretty much.

 

[SmashBro99]

Delphox - We have Charizard already, Greninja is more popular

Chestnaught - Ugly, Greninja is more popular. SCEPTILE

Did I miss something?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I say they chose well then. Sure, the selection was done way before Greninja stablished himself in the pokemon series but I guess that his charm, the same that made him a very popular pokemon, captured the attention Sakurai and his team as well.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Perhaps the reason was because they needed a water starter to replace Squirtle....so they could have a grass starter in Sceptile. :3

 

[Xigger]

Sakurai looked at the hidden abilities and knew Greninja would be top tier

 

[Hexaped]

Someone probably already posted something like this, so I apologize if so. Anyway, an idea was formed, after I learned that Greninja was supposedly chosen for SSB4 before X and Y were released. What if the Pokemon designers deliberately create one, particularly appealing starter, and create deliberately less appealing designs for the other two? This way, they can control the popularity of certain Pokemon. Perhaps this was done with all the starters all along! It's probably how the boxart legendary designs are handled, too: instead of causing purchasers to struggle over which boxart legendary they prefer, create one appealing legendary and one less appealing legendary to bolster one particular game of the duo. This may be why Pokemon Ruby, not Sapphire, generated most sales. Because there is one appealing legendary, and one less appealing legendary, the obvious contrast could even convince those who wanted neither game, to purchase the bolstered game. There is a word for that psychological technique.

 

[jaytalks]

He has best design of the three. The fire starter was out because of the return of Charizard.

Greninja follows the principle of good cartoon design. He make a wonderful, recognizable silhouette. I can't say Chesnaught does the same. And he was my starter.

 

[Hexaped]

I understand. I wonder how Chesnaught would have played if they were chosen instead. They were my starter too.

 

[Bedoop]

Because Greninja rolls off the tongue better than Chesninja or Delphninja.

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

 

[Zeroknight9]

Personally, i like chesnaught more than greninja. Don't get me wrong, all of the new starters of gen 6 are awesome, and greninja is my second favorite, but in terms of power and design i just like chesnaught more. Delphox is good too, but she doesn't seem as cool in comparison to chesnaught and greninja. Now, with that aside, i am still very happy for greninja to be in smash, even if it means no chesnaught, but i'll live. Also, i know everyone loves greninjas hidden move, protean, but i can never take that ability seriously. I know it means that all of his different typed attacks will always be at their strongest, but it also leaves you open to new weaknesses. Maybe it was because my friend always thinks he's invincible when using ice beam on my tyrantrum. Poor son of a ***** didn't see that fire fang coming... But alas, i still believe chesnaughts hidden ability, bullet proof, is better. Still, i'm looking forward to playing as greninja in all his toungey awesomeness in this iteration of smash bros. If someone would like to help me make a possible move set for chesnught (not saying that he's going to be in. there's no way in hell, but just for yucks), just comment. Here are a few of my ideas.

Standing b: (couldn't decide which i liked more)
1.Hammer arm - charges up similar to DK's and can be released to do some powerful kill shots. Maybe a few differences from DK's, but i couldn't think of any good ones. Maybe when it's at full strength chesnaught's speed decreases, but the punch is very powerful.
2.Seed bomb - chesnught pulls out a seed bomb and throws it in an arc torward opponents. Similar to snake's grenades, but cannot be held or aimed. Does around the same damage but has a much greater blast radius.
3.Pin missile - Chesnaught launches several weak pins in succession that, when combined, can do decent damage, but next to no knock back. Very good range though.

Down b: Spiky shield - Chesnaught combines his arms and creates an impenetrable shield with spikes all over it that can be held indefinitely. Only works in the direction you are facing, similar to pit's mirror shield in brawl, but instead of reflecting attacks it just stops them. Anyone who comes into contact with the spikes will be given slight damage and serious knock back. This could be considered a good kill move. Can only be activated on the ground. When in the air, maybe he could place the shield below him so he falls with the shield under him. He falls at his normal speed, but hitting someone with it will result in a meteor smash

Side b: Take Down/Giga Impact - He charges forward and hits the target with his shoulder or back spikes. Similar to charizards flair blitz in the fact that it charges forward and damages user. However, chesnaught's version is strongest at it's end, and will have good knock back if you can land the sweet spot. Does mediocre damage out of sweet spot.

Up b: Vine Whip - basically ivysaur's up b from brawl (it was his only move that could fit)

Final smash: Frenzy Plant - Large vines and roots appear around chesnaught and lash out at enemies and smack them off the arena. The roots are closer to him and do much more damage and knock back, while the vines are much farther out while doing less damage and knock back, but can still kill opponents.

Attributes - Definitely a much slow character than greninja, but sports some powerful moves and could be based more around defensive maneuvers and strong hits. Very heavy, but some pretty good jumps with an okay recovery. A fun little extra would be that whoever touches his back will receive I% damage and no knock back, just to emphasize his spikes.

what do you think? If you have any additional ideas or tweaks, let me know and we can discuss what it could be. Now we just need to wait for greninja to lick up the competition When Sm4sh comes out! Get it? Get it? No one? ok...

 

[IsmaR]

I like Chesnaught more too, but you're probably better off not posting this in the Greninja boards. Suggest you look up the Official Character Discussion thread if you want feedback.

 

[Achluo]

So many pokemons to pick and they picked This frog shiet

 

[Zeroknight9]

I like Chesnaught more too, but you're probably better off not posting this in the Greninja boards. Suggest you look up the Official Character Discussion thread if you want feedback.

I like Chesnaught more too, but you're probably better off not posting this in the Greninja boards. Suggest you look up the Official Character Discussion thread if you want feedback.

Yeah, your probably right. I just couldn't find a page for chesnaught, and seeing how this discussion was the closest to one i decided to use it. The post was more so to show people that chesnaught could have worked for smash. It's pretty safe to say that all of these starters are pretty popular and have viable move sets, but it came down to sakaruai's (they really need to put his name into the autocorrect system. To many people have had his name changed to samurai) decision on which one. Besides, the starter wasn't picked because of popularity because they decided the ssb4 roster before pokemon x/y. Whichever reason sakurai decided to use greninja is his and his own. But i'm not even mad. I like forward to spamming the water shuriken.

 

[Zeroknight9]

I understand. I wonder how Chesnaught would have played if they were chosen instead. They were my starter too.

As much as i would love to have chesnaught in ssb4, there's just no way anymore. I'm defenitly looking forward to playing as greninja, but here are a few moves chesnaught could use.

Standing b: (couldn't decide which i liked more)
1.Hammer arm - charges up similar to DK's and can be released to do some powerful kill shots. Maybe a few differences from DK's, but i couldn't think of any good ones. Maybe when it's at full strength chesnaught's speed decreases, but the punch is very powerful.
2.Seed bomb - chesnught pulls out a seed bomb and throws it in an arc torward opponents. Similar to snake's grenades, but cannot be held or aimed. Does around the same damage but has a much greater blast radius.
3.Pin missile - Chesnaught launches several weak pins in succession that, when combined, can do decent damage, but next to no knock back. Very good range though.

Down b: Spiky shield - Chesnaught combines his arms and creates an impenetrable shield with spikes all over it that can be held indefinitely. Only works in the direction you are facing, similar to pit's mirror shield in brawl, but instead of reflecting attacks it just stops them. Anyone who comes into contact with the spikes will be given slight damage and serious knock back. This could be considered a good kill move. Can only be activated on the ground. When in the air, maybe he could place the shield below him so he falls with the shield under him. He falls at his normal speed, but hitting someone with it will result in a meteor smash

Side b: Take Down/Giga Impact - He charges forward and hits the target with his shoulder or back spikes. Similar to charizards flair blitz in the fact that it charges forward and damages user. However, chesnaught's version is strongest at it's end, and will have good knock back if you can land the sweet spot. Does mediocre damage out of sweet spot.

Up b: Vine Whip - basically ivysaur's up b from brawl (it was his only move that could fit)

Final smash: Frenzy Plant - Large vines and roots appear around chesnaught and lash out at enemies and smack them off the arena. The roots are closer to him and do much more damage and knock back, while the vines are much farther out while doing less damage and knock back, but can still kill opponents.

Attributes - Definitely a much slow character than greninja, but sports some powerful moves and could be based more around defensive maneuvers and strong hits. Very heavy, but some pretty good jumps with an okay recovery. A fun little extra would be that whoever touches his back will receive I% damage and no knock back, just to emphasize his spikes.

 

[Zeroknight9]

sorry, double post.

 

[Enigma14]

I choose Chespin but in terms of movement, I could see Greyninja as the better choice.

It would be cool to have a grappler, especially a grappler pokemon but we kinda have Bowser for that already.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Greninja was the most popular of the Gen 6 starters, but it's also true that the role of Fire-type starter was taken by Charizard and Grass type starters are usually less popular than the other types, in spite of my love for Venusaur/Torterra/Chesnaught/Sceptile. If only two of the three starter types are represented in Smash, it's pretty much a given that Grass gets the short end of the stick, which is a shame, even though Greninja is a completely deserving rep that looks fun to play as.

 

[Kevandre]

I'm so glad that they picked Greninja of the three. Chesnaught is cool but I get the feeling he'd kinda play like Bowser (Which, in SSB4, wouldn't be too bad).

Delphox is my second least favorite Pokemon ever... Behind...

The enemy...

Spoiler

 

[FirestormNeos]

Why? FOR THE GLORY OF SUBSTITUTE DOLL OF COURSE!

Greninja is not only the most popular starter of gen 6, it's the most popular Pokemon in Gen 6 as Lucario was in Gen 4.

Aegislash says hi-- *gunshot*

 

[EgeDal]

Well if you played X or Y, you should know a protean greninja is the most competitive starter ever, like ever. That means being used a lot by players on online matches. Lucario was also pushed very hardly (starring in a movie before the release of 4th gen), Greninja however, pushed itself all the way to the popularity, with his mainstream design(it is a frog ninja, curious why naruto is popular? it has frogs, ninjas, and ninjas that can summon frogs), very very good move pool and ability that makes it super competitive and mysteriousness. I think it's a good choice, and Greninja well deserves to be in a game this popular, i hope he sticks around on the future.

 

[liets]

To me, Greninja seems like the best choice from gen 6, as it is just so unique. It also adds 2 two the number of pokemon types playable in smash. It has it's own signature move and also shows off new special moves. And too, many people prefer Greninja to the other starter finals of gen 6, and that's for a reason. I totally think Greninja is deserving! :D

 

[LeeYawshee]

It's true that Greninja is very popular, his design is cool and it is still very unique despite what most people say.

I skipped a few pages, but apparently some has said Greninja is nothing but a mix and match of several other characters' movesets. While I can agree there quite a lot of his moves look familiar, Greninja isn't the only newcomer to do this.

Look at Rosalina. She's basically the result of melding the Ice Climbers and Olimar into one entity.

I respectfully disagree. Rosalina actually has full control of her second character while Pikmin and Nana(or Popo) have a mind of their own and only follow the leader. Rosalina can position her character freely and work around that. Popo and Nana have to take advantage of each other. Olimar has to make sure to keep his numbers favorable and take advantage of his Pikmin's strengths and weaknesses. The only similarity these three characters share is that they are more than one character. Despite this, all three are beyond unique.

Greninja is also still relatively unique. All of his moves might seem generic, but they all serve a greater purpose. A tricky playstyle. But he's very sneaky and fast enough to have that sort of tricky playstyle which is not one we see very often in the Smash series.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I don't see why not. Greninja is not preventing any other Pokemon from getting in the game since he got in on his own merits. Plus, his moveset adds some uniqueness to the roster.

 

[Tino]

Meh, I don't really care about Greninja because I've never payed much attention to the Pokemon franchise since after Generation 3 so it doesn't really make a difference to me if he deserved it or not.