Why I Hate Dark Pit (Other Clone Suggestions)

[Ryu Myuutsu]

The argument of, "Clones aren't bad additions because they add more characters." is flawed. A character addition really feels justified if they provide a unique moveset or provides an alternative playstyle to an existing moveset a la Falco or Ganondorf. Adding redundant movesets only to buffer up character representation is lazy justification for many of these development-convenient extras. Sakurai likely doesn't care about how I think it should be, but if you aren't going to make these characters unique from their addition, just don't include them at all.

It's like Ryu to Ken to Akuma and the rest of the Shotokan lot. And out of all the characters occupying Clone Row, Lucina has the least Shotokan flavor. And if all 3 were originally meant to be alt costumes, Alph was the most respectable clone we got in this game.

With that being said, I see Dark Pit as "wasted potential" instead of "wasted character." I supported his inclusion, but I hope he gets Luigification or a straight-up overhaul in SSB5.

Sure, it'll take a bigger workload, but Dark Pit is the most convenient character to increase representation for additional weapons in KI:U. Everything he has now feels like stock custom moves for Pit.

His slight mechanical adjustments are fine as they are. Maybe exacerbate them a bit to give him a stronger, weightier feel from Pit. His Silver Bow is fine as his main weapon, even for his standard special. But given that his namesake staff is in his splash art, either make Dark Pit Staff his standard special, main weapon, or both. A lot of Pit's attack animations work fine with it, maybe with replacing his jab combo and some smashes and tilts to make use of the staff's range. Viridi Flight is fine. His additional weapons should reflect his theme of darkness. Change his side special to Pandora Claws. Change his down special to Doom Cannon. Give him a Cursed Palm for extra range and combo setups with his grab and throws. Dark Pit Staff being relegated to Final Smash when it's present in splash art means it's taken out of half of adjusted gameplay, like For Glory. Instead, why not take the facets of another long-lost character: Solid Snake. Have his Final Smash be similar to the Grenade Launcher, but have Dark Pit flying with a large reticle as he dishes out the super-powered attacks of each of his weapons during KI:U's air battles.

Too visually redundant? Give his robes and ringlets a tattered appearance, along with ruffling the feathers of his wings. Change his irises to red and give him an anime canine to accent his feral appearance (both of which are in the Palutena trailer).

There ya go, unique Dark Pit. I'd be on that **** posthaste.

Sorry, but no. Your line of thinking is far more flawed.

Clones aren't bad additions at all when done in small numbers as is the case in this game. In Smash 4, all intended newcomers are chosen mostly based on what they can bring to the table in terms of unique play-style and this is done from the start of development, meaning that each one of them has a respective work cycle. Clone characters such as Dark Pit simply come along mid-development, and this is way past the cycle were the newcomers were implemented. This means that their workload has been met, and they are left with this alts for some of the existing characters which at the end they decide to include as their own because perhaps there were some tweaks to their moves during their inclusion. What I'm saying is that basically the effort in character addition was clearly done and right on schedule so they could simply afford to do an extra something by adding just a couple of clones; calling them lazy for merely doing overtime work is inaccurate, disrespectful and a big, fat lie.

And we are talking about three clones, why you think that they were better off as alts is puzzling. Sure, they may not add a lot but literally nothing is lost and no harm is done by letting them be their own characters instead. After all, we got around 12 unique newcomers and a total of 51 (52) fighters in the roster to compensate. Unless you are one of those people who needs to look for the stain in the eye.

It's fine that you wanted a unique moveset for DP but he was never a priority on the character list, there were simply better choices for that like Palutena.

I, personally, wish that Dark Pit wasn't in the game, but instead the used the time (if minimal) on other characters. Dark Pit is cool, but I don't think worth it.

Literally, not. The way. It works.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd rather have any other character or clone than Dark Pit, but I'd rather have Dark Pit over nothing.

I'm personally well aware of how easy his inclusion was, so as much as I dislike him, I just regard his inclusion as a secondary attribute to the roster.

And hell, I do play him occasionally too. And although he's not very different, I can see myself eventually enjoying using him more than the original Pit, just because of his colour-scheme.

 

[Curious Villager]

From what I understood, they really had very little time and the three clones where upgraded from existing alts near the end of development instead of making any clones/semi-clones like the ones in Brawl or perhaps even Melee.

Though I would have preferred someone else instead of Dark Pit if the possibility where there, but under his circumstances (the only other alternatives where Alph, the Koopalings and the alternate gender/design characters though) I guess I can just let it slide...

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sorry, but no. Your line of thinking is far more flawed.

Literally, not. The way. It works.

Actually, it is. The time used to make Dark Pit (Used a team to copy+paste Dark Pit and then redsign him and then make him a smash) could've been usedon another character. Maybe some touch ups, balances, changes, or more tests. Instead of a copy and paste with a different design (which still takes time, it isn't like "DARK PIT? GREAT IDEAD ITS DONE I DID IT IN 3 SECONDS :D"

 

[TTTTTsd]

My only question is why is this here and not in general character talk where you aren't posting in a subforum where people who like this character are obviously going to be.

That's like....why would you post this here? If you want people to agree with you about a character being what you would define as a waste, why would you go into the boards of the people who actively play and learn this character, exactly?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Actually, it is. The time used to make Dark Pit (Used a team to copy+paste Dark Pit and then redsign him and then make him a smash) could've been usedon another character. Maybe some touch ups, balances, changes, or more tests. Instead of a copy and paste with a different design (which still takes time, it isn't like "DARK PIT? GREAT IDEAD ITS DONE I DID IT IN 3 SECONDS :D"

Sorry, but that is an ignorant thing to say. Everything in this game has a stage of development (mechanics, characters, stages, etc.), including a phase for testing, balance checks, touch ups and more. It's not like the dev team is idling their time away on Dark Pit when they have a list of priorities to complete.
That time you speak off could have very well been Sakurai's lunch break, and in reality DP was probably easier to make than one of the koopalings since he is just a recolor of Pit. The rest of the characters and the game itself received the necessary attention, regardless of his inclusion as a fighter, so saying that he got in the way of whatever thing you may name is stupid. Refer to SmashWolf's post on the first page for more info.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sorry, but that is an ignorant thing to say. Everything in this game has a stage of development (mechanics, characters, stages, etc.), including a phase for testing, balance checks, touch ups and more. It's not like the dev team is idling their time away on Dark Pit when they have a list of priorities to complete.
That time you speak off could have very well been Sakurai's lunch break, and in reality DP was probably easier to make than one of the koopalings since he is just a recolor of Pit. The rest of the characters and the game itself received the necessary attention, regardless of his inclusion as a fighter, so saying that he got in the way of whatever thing you may name is stupid. Refer to SmashWolf's post on the first page for more info.

You don't even know, do you? During testing of Smash 4, they didn't go "ok you guys, you will all play Mario:. They finished the roster, did a BIT of testing and fixing, and then moved on. After they did that, testers go on and just play, different styles and characters, seeing if they can find a bug, which will get fixed if they find it. The koopalings were actually easier, because all it is is a different model. Models aren't easy, but with Pit they recoloured, a new final smash, some redesigns on weapons, and did a bunch of other stuff. They could've EASILY, instead of making Dark Pit, maybe finishing something they didn't have time to complete, or maybe a few skins for characters that don't have very good ones. Its not like they go "okay we did exactly this and now we are done, so lets create another clone character!"

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

You don't even know, do you? During testing of Smash 4, they didn't go "ok you guys, you will all play Mario:. They finished the roster, did a BIT of testing and fixing, and then moved on. After they did that, testers go on and just play, different styles and characters, seeing if they can find a bug, which will get fixed if they find it. The koopalings were actually easier, because all it is is a different model. Models aren't easy, but with Pit they recoloured, a new final smash, some redesigns on weapons, and did a bunch of other stuff. They could've EASILY, instead of making Dark Pit, maybe finishing something they didn't have time to complete, or maybe a few skins for characters that don't have very good ones. Its not like they go "okay we did exactly this and now we are done, so lets create another clone character!"

On the contrary, I`ve done my homework on the matter and I probably know more about this than you will ever do. As I said before, there are different development stages, including one dedicated for debugging, testing and such. Dark Pit came as an afterthought, and he was probably the easiest clone to make with very little priority in mind, so there is no reason to believe that he got in the way of development.
Sakurai and co. could have very well done him in their spare time, not before doing their scheduled workload like implementing the newcomers and tweaking the veterans; they simply wouldn`t be bothering with him at all if they`ve felt that they haven`t been up to date with the more important aspects. He was merely being an conceived as an alt costume but became his own fighter eventually just because they thought they could. Heck, the fact that he is a carbon copy of Pit saves ENORMOUS time in his inclusion. And that new Final Smash you are referring to is merely a copy/paste of Zelda`s with a different color. He couldn`t have been "replaced" with someone or something else because he could have taken like a couple of hours to create; he is just an added extra that was included out of convenience.

In short, DP didn`t prevent Sakurai and his team from doing check ups, tweaking, balancing and revising their work and such. He is not the reason your favorite character does not have the skin you wanted nor responsible for whatever moves they have and how they work. A Dark Pit-less roster would yield the same end result. You don`t have to like him but complaining about his inclusion claiming that he got in the way of whatever you can think of despite the little effort he took is just pure ignorance and pettiness. Is more feasible to complain about the non-clone newcomers you did not want because they actually took a lot of work.

 

[Arcadenik]

Dark Pit doesn't bother me... he is just an extra character just like Lucina is... and just like Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Pichu, and Roy were in Melee.

I just wish that Alph was a separate character like Dark Pit and Lucina, too. I really liked Pikmin 3 and I wanted Alph to use Rock/Flying Pikmin instead of Red/Blue/Yellow/Purple/White/Flying Pikmin. Just imagine, Alph using nothing but Rock Pikmin... that alone would have made Alph stand out from Olimar more than Dark Pit and Lucina ever stood out from Pit and Marth.

 

[Frostwraith]

Dark Pit doesn't bother me... he is just an extra character just like Lucina is... and just like Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Pichu, and Roy were in Melee.

I just wish that Alph was a separate character like Dark Pit and Lucina, too. I really liked Pikmin 3 and I wanted Alph to use Rock/Flying Pikmin instead of Red/Blue/Yellow/Purple/White/Flying Pikmin. Just imagine, Alph using nothing but Rock Pikmin... that alone would have made Alph stand out from Olimar more than Dark Pit and Lucina ever stood out from Pit and Marth.

I think if Sakurai had a little more time, Alph would have been the next alt-to-clone character.

The priority was likely:
1. Dr. Mario - Melee veteran and Sakurai wanted to recreate him from Melee. When it comes to animation and mechanics, he seems to have been worked on the most out of the three clones.
2. Lucina - Aside from a few animation changes for taunts and win poses common to the three last minute clones, she also has slightly different animations for the Counter and Shield Breaker special moves. Removing the tipper wouldn't be much trouble programming-wise, as it is merely change values so that any part of her sword deals the same damage or remove all hit boxes and replace them with a single uniform hit box.
3. Dark Pit - Barely any changes when it comes to animation work and mechanic changes. Silver Bow, Electroshock Arm and his forward tilt are all easily implemented, for they're merely value changes. Aside from the taunts and win poses common to the trio, all he has is a different Final Smash animation. Mechanically, the Final Smash is 100% identical to Zelda's as my tests demonstrated. Out of the three, he was worked on the less time and may have been done at the very last moment.

Why leave Alph as lowest priority? Well, I think it might have been due to several factors.

Alph is less popular than Dark Pit and Lucina, for example, notably in Japan, so that might have been a factor. Dr. Mario is a Melee favorite and Sakurai did say he wanted to pander to those fans when turning Dr. Mario into a clone.

When it comes to mechanics, I think Sakurai and the development team wouldn't want to tinker with Olimar's more complicated mechanics with so little time remaining. It's a risky thing to do.

Whereas all Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit have are mere value changes and a few new animations, tinkering with the Pikmin would probably mean changing the entire mechanic, depending on how the data for each Pikmin might be stored and organized. I'm merely speculating, of course, but it seems to me that Olimar's Pikmin mechanic is more complex than the more straightforward characters like Mario, Marth and Pit.

It might have been a matter of convenience and not taking unnecessary risks with an almost complete game. Sakurai did say they wanted to avoid spending too much time on the clones, after all.

As for other alts, most of them are either different designs () or gender swaps (), so making those clones wouldn't make sense to me. As for the Koopalings, there are 7 of them. Overkill to turn all of them in clones, if I do say so myself. Turning only a bunch of them into clones wouldn't be very consistent either.

(This whole clone debate has really been beaten to death...)

 

[TTTTTsd]

Whenever anybody tells me Dr. Mario doesn't add anything I ask them to play Mario and Dr. Mario side by side in this game and they can't answer.

It's not even close to how it was in Melee, even their base MOVEMENT is different, I have no idea what he's doing down there in the clones section with Lucina and Dark Pit because while Lucina and Dark Pit play like their alter egos to some degree, I can not say this about Dr. Mario at all.

It's weird as **** that he was the one who got this much effort, of all characters.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

On the contrary, I`ve done my homework on the matter and I probably know more about this than you will ever do. As I said before, there are different development stages, including one dedicated for debugging, testing and such. Dark Pit came as an afterthought, and he was probably the easiest clone to make with very little priority in mind, so there is no reason to believe that he got in the way of development.
Sakurai and co. could have very well done him in their spare time, not before doing their scheduled workload like implementing the newcomers and tweaking the veterans; they simply wouldn`t be bothering with him at all if they`ve felt that they haven`t been up to date with the more important aspects. He was merely being an conceived as an alt costume but became his own fighter eventually just because they thought they could. Heck, the fact that he is a carbon copy of Pit saves ENORMOUS time in his inclusion. And that new Final Smash you are referring to is merely a copy/paste of Zelda`s with a different color. He couldn`t have been "replaced" with someone or something else because he could have taken like a couple of hours to create; he is just an added extra that was included out of convenience.

In short, DP didn`t prevent Sakurai and his team from doing check ups, tweaking, balancing and revising their work and such. He is not the reason your favorite character does not have the skin you wanted nor responsible for whatever moves they have and how they work. A Dark Pit-less roster would yield the same end result. You don`t have to like him but complaining about his inclusion claiming that he got in the way of whatever you can think of despite the little effort he took is just pure ignorance and pettiness. Is more feasible to complain about the non-clone newcomers you did not want because they actually took a lot of work.

Please quote me on when I complained about Dark Pit stopping the process, I said that instead of a last minute addition, they could have done some touch ups. I said it before and I'll say it again. I know there are different stages if development, but in a debugging/testing/modeling stage, there is never a point where you have nothing left to do. In coding, even if it;s just recolouring/remodelling, nothing is "easy", it still takes time. So stop with your bias, you're homework was probably looking up"development of games" and skimming through a wikipedia post.

 

[Frostwraith]

Please quote me on when I complained about Dark Pit stopping the process, I said that instead of a last minute addition, they could have done some touch ups. I said it before and I'll say it again. I know there are different stages if development, but in a debugging/testing/modeling stage, there is never a point where you have nothing left to do. In coding, even if it;s just recolouring/remodelling, nothing is "easy", it still takes time. So stop with your bias, you're homework was probably looking up"development of games" and skimming through a wikipedia post.

What kind of touch-ups? Balancing? They're still doing that with patches, you know...

Also, Sakurai did say they come up with the idea of making clones during character balancing when experimenting with each characters. They split Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit off while experimenting with their counterparts' moves.

With Dr. Mario, they recreated his Melee moveset. With Lucina, they removed the tipper mechanic and evened the damage through her entire sword. With Dark Pit, they just changed some moves' proprieties and added Zelda's Final Smash to his moveset.

All minor changes that could have been done overtime during some lunch breaks or something.

The animation work put into those characters is minimal considering they had to make entire animation sets for over 40 characters, a lot of stages and several other elements like items, summons, enemies, bosses and so on. Adding 3 unique win poses, 3 unique taunts and a few animations for a few different moves to models already in the game (note that they were planned as alts, so models were already done and animated) hardly makes any difference compared to the entire work already done.

Given that animation and balancing are handled by different teams, one wouldn't compromise the other. Sakurai has stated they didn't spend too much time on the clones to avoid wasting resources and compromising game balance.

They're bonus content and nothing more. You might as well rant about every single Easter Egg that game developers overall put into games that are completely pointless, yet take time and resources to implement. No one complains about those, yet when three extra characters that are low-effort additions and play similarly to other characters are put in the game, everyone loses their ****. It doesn't make sense to me.

There are a ton of other features that took much more time and are just as bonuses as those characters. For example, the trophies.

Whenever anybody tells me Dr. Mario doesn't add anything I ask them to play Mario and Dr. Mario side by side in this game and they can't answer.

It's not even close to how it was in Melee, even their base MOVEMENT is different, I have no idea what he's doing down there in the clones section with Lucina and Dark Pit because while Lucina and Dark Pit play like their alter egos to some degree, I can not say this about Dr. Mario at all.

It's weird as **** that he was the one who got this much effort, of all characters.

He's in the same corner as Lucina and Dark Pit because, like them, he was a last minute addition. He was an afterthought.

Like the other two clones, he was going to be an alt costume for Mario, but he got his own spot mid-development after being given the changes he has.

 

[civson]

Considering how much she's in Smash 4 already, Viridi would have been a better Uprising representative than Dark Pit.

 

[Arcadenik]

Considering how much she's in Smash 4 already, Viridi would have been a better Uprising representative than Dark Pit.

But then people would cry about how Viridi didn't deserve to get in Smash and how she is a Palutena clone.

 

[Tonzura Koite]

I don't care if he's a clone character. He's still from a way over represented series.
I don't mind clones, like Dr. Mario or Lucina.

But why couldn't we get a different clone character??!??

Dark Samus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Ms. Pacman, Louie, Zero, Pockle, Funky Kong, Daisy...

Anyone else agree?? Did anyone even want Dark Pit...

I'm pretty sure DP is literally a palette swap/coat of paint. Does he even have his own model? It's pretty inexcusable. And yeah, I hate him too, but what can you do?

But hold up, Shadow? You best be kidding. Worst thing to ever happen to the Sonic franchise.

A better choice would have been Tails. If you look at Sonic 2, before Tails became the annoying character most people love to hate, he was just Sonic's cute, silent sidekick. He played exactly like Sonic except he was slower on the ground and could hover. So base him off that game if we're talking clones. Give him a hover after his jump, higher but floatier jumps, and a slower run speed, and change 1 or 2 normals to use his tails for longer ranged pokes. And maybe give him his plane for his Final Smash. If not, I think he had a super form in Sonic 3 so that's an easy way out.
That's all you'd need to do to stay true to the character and please a lot more people than DP has.

 

[LancerStaff]

You're kinda deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make MORE people unhappy though, which is also a matter of facts.

Found exactly what I expected in this topic.

No, that's just incorrect. How many KI fans were there before SSBB? About nil. Pit's dark coloration was a popular choice pre KIU, and was promoted to be a character for said game. He still even plays like Pit to keep the old fans happy.

What I'm getting at is that any character whatsoever will find a fanbase when included in Smash, Dark Pit is no exception. There are more people who like Dark Pit in SSB then those upset about his inclusion, and that's a fact.

The argument of, "Clones aren't bad additions because they add more characters." is flawed. A character addition really feels justified if they provide a unique moveset or provides an alternative playstyle to an existing moveset a la Falco or Ganondorf. Adding redundant movesets only to buffer up character representation is lazy justification for many of these development-convenient extras. Sakurai likely doesn't care about how I think it should be, but if you aren't going to make these characters unique from their addition, just don't include them at all.

It's like Ryu to Ken to Akuma and the rest of the Shotokan lot. And out of all the characters occupying Clone Row, Lucina has the least Shotokan flavor. And if all 3 were originally meant to be alt costumes, Alph was the most respectable clone we got in this game.

With that being said, I see Dark Pit as "wasted potential" instead of "wasted character." I supported his inclusion, but I hope he gets Luigification or a straight-up overhaul in SSB5.

Sure, it'll take a bigger workload, but Dark Pit is the most convenient character to increase representation for additional weapons in KI:U. Everything he has now feels like stock custom moves for Pit.

His slight mechanical adjustments are fine as they are. Maybe exacerbate them a bit to give him a stronger, weightier feel from Pit. His Silver Bow is fine as his main weapon, even for his standard special. But given that his namesake staff is in his splash art, either make Dark Pit Staff his standard special, main weapon, or both. A lot of Pit's attack animations work fine with it, maybe with replacing his jab combo and some smashes and tilts to make use of the staff's range. Viridi Flight is fine. His additional weapons should reflect his theme of darkness. Change his side special to Pandora Claws. Change his down special to Doom Cannon. Give him a Cursed Palm for extra range and combo setups with his grab and throws. Dark Pit Staff being relegated to Final Smash when it's present in splash art means it's taken out of half of adjusted gameplay, like For Glory. Instead, why not take the facets of another long-lost character: Solid Snake. Have his Final Smash be similar to the Grenade Launcher, but have Dark Pit flying with a large reticle as he dishes out the super-powered attacks of each of his weapons during KI:U's air battles.

Too visually redundant? Give his robes and ringlets a tattered appearance, along with ruffling the feathers of his wings. Change his irises to red and give him an anime canine to accent his feral appearance (both of which are in the Palutena trailer).

There ya go, unique Dark Pit. I'd be on that **** posthaste.

Dark Pit is unique, but he has to be alongside Pit.

Remember the flaws with transformation characters? You were supposed to choose the one better for the matchup, but that ment you'd change like once if at all. And you'd have two totally different characters to figure out. What if instead, the changes were minimal yet important and you instead choose outside of the match? Bam, that's what Pit's snarky twin does. You may be thinking this is similar to what custom moves does, and this'd be true. However, picking one move in his case means giving up another, instead of simply going for the best. Just let Pit use the good ones? Then he'd have to be nerfed somewhere else. Yes, it's lopsided in Pit's favor, but that doesn't mean we can't iron out the kinks.

Totally would of liked a single new move though. But it's hard to choose which to change. All his specials are so useful already.

 

[Captain Soviet]

I've said it (and been flamed for it) before, and I'll say it (and be flamed for it) again. Kid Icarus (in my opinion) does not deserve to have more reps than Star Fox, Metroid, F-Zero, and Donkey Kong. Dark Pit feels incredibly lazy, and like a slap in the face to fans of the previously mentioned series. If Sora/Namco really wanted an easy clone to pad out the roster (that's what DP is), they should have gone with Alph+Pikmin.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've said it (and been flamed for it) before, and I'll say it (and be flamed for it) again. Kid Icarus (in my opinion) does not deserve to have more reps than Star Fox, Metroid, F-Zero, and Donkey Kong. Dark Pit feels incredibly lazy, and like a slap in the face to fans of the previously mentioned series. If Sora/Namco really wanted an easy clone to pad out the roster (that's what DP is), they should have gone with Alph+Pikmin.

It never was about reps, it's about what works. Metroid and DK will get characters when a really unique moveset comes out of it. Dark Pit was chosen over Alph because that's what they had time for. They both would of made it if they had enough.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I've said it (and been flamed for it) before, and I'll say it (and be flamed for it) again. Kid Icarus (in my opinion) does not deserve to have more reps than Star Fox, Metroid, F-Zero, and Donkey Kong. Dark Pit feels incredibly lazy, and like a slap in the face to fans of the previously mentioned series. If Sora/Namco really wanted an easy clone to pad out the roster (that's what DP is), they should have gone with Alph+Pikmin.

It's been explained a million times in this topic why Dark Pit was created; it was simply a convenient and easy character to make since it was originally intended to be Pit's alt, and since he is just a color swap of him it saves a LOT of time. Easier than Alph and the koopalings.

And people like you say that X character is not deserving when they mean "I don't like this character, therefore it shouldn't be in".

 

[Wintropy]

I think it also has to do with the fact that Dark Pit was among the last newcomers to be revealed, and even then, it was through a leak.

If people had months and months to get used to his presence like the other newcomers, there probably wouldn't have been nearly as much salt.

 

[PSIBoy]

His conversion from alt to full character would take significantly less time than having to add in a new model. Nintendo just has to change him up a bit more and he should be a properly done clone. But I guess they may not have had enough time to develop Dark Pit further, and you cannot deny that his inclusion increased the size of the roster.

That being said, I wish Ness had a Ninten alt which would be the clone instead of Dark Pit to make up for Lucas.

 

[Captain Soviet]

And people like you say that X character is not deserving when they mean "I don't like this character, therefore it shouldn't be in".

Hey, buddy. Don't tell me what I mean when I say something. There are plenty of characters in this game that I have no interest in because I don't play/haven't played their franchises (Shulk and the FE cast, for example). Notice how it's only the shallow palette swap that I'm irritated at. And I don't see how anyone can defend Pit Recolor 17-32 on the face of, "Whoopsie, the professional game developers just ran outta time, lulzz". Alph as a costume already exists. The model work was done. Why isn't the actual unique model a clone character instead of Shadow Pit. Someone else said that Alph would have been the next clone character if there was time. Why did Deep Pit have priority over him in the first place?

 

[PSIBoy]

Hey, buddy. Don't tell me what I mean when I say something. There are plenty of characters in this game that I have no interest in because I don't play/haven't played their franchises (Shulk and the FE cast, for example). Notice how it's only the shallow palette swap that I'm irritated at. And I don't see how anyone can defend Pit Recolor 17-32 on the face of, "Whoopsie, the professional game developers just ran outta time, lulzz". Alph as a costume already exists. The model work was done. Why isn't the actual unique model a clone character instead of Shadow Pit. Someone else said that Alph would have been the next clone character if there was time. Why did Deep Pit have priority over him in the first place?

I'm guessing popularity. Dark Pit is very popular in Japan, and I'm not sure how Alph is holding up...

 

[Wintropy]

Hey, buddy. Don't tell me what I mean when I say something. There are plenty of characters in this game that I have no interest in because I don't play/haven't played their franchises (Shulk and the FE cast, for example). Notice how it's only the shallow palette swap that I'm irritated at. And I don't see how anyone can defend Pit Recolor 17-32 on the face of, "Whoopsie, the professional game developers just ran outta time, lulzz". Alph as a costume already exists. The model work was done. Why isn't the actual unique model a clone character instead of Shadow Pit. Someone else said that Alph would have been the next clone character if there was time. Why did Deep Pit have priority over him in the first place?

Pit's fighting style is statistically balance and requires very, very little technical adjustments to recreate and subsequently balance.

Olimar's fighting style is statistically all over the shop and requires a hell of a lot of technical adjustments - including reassessing the individual AI associated with such elements and ensuring that whatever other abilities he may have aren't too broken or game-frazzling - to recreate and subsequently balance.

The simple answer?

Dark Pit is more popular and easier to create. And well yep that's that.

 

[Aenglaan]

But why couldn't we get a different clone character??!??

Dark Samus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Ms. Pacman, Louie, Zero, Pockle, Funky Kong, Daisy...

Dark Samus is an assist trophy (a really bad decision mind you) and even if she wasn't, making her a clone would have been insulting considering how different she actually is from Samus. We don't need another Ganondorf situation where a possibly unique character ends up being reduced to a clone for every game. The same goes for Dixie Kong.

And although I don't hate Dark Pit, I wish he had different weapons. I mean, why doesn't he use the DP staff as his B move when that's what his profile shows him using? It would actually make sense considering how the arrows don't bend as much. You might as well show Charizard as its X mega evolution on its profile.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Samus is an assist trophy (a really bad decision mind you) and even if she wasn't, making her a clone would have been insulting considering how different she actually is from Samus. We don't need another Ganondorf situation where a possibly unique character ends up being reduced to a clone for every game. The same goes for Dixie Kong.

And although I don't hate Dark Pit, I wish he had different weapons. I mean, why doesn't he use the DP staff as his B move when that's what his profile shows him using? It would actually make sense considering how the arrows don't bend as much. You might as well show Charizard as its X mega evolution on its profile.

Weeell, the Dark Pit Staff is a weapon that can OHKO other players in multiplayer. Most weapons can, actually. But the Dark Pit Staff is the only one in SSB that can do so easily, besides the Upperdash Arm which can be chalked up to Pit being a noob in his own game.

Basically, most weapons in Kid Icarus are god-tier compared to SSB, and a Final Smash is the only way to accurately portray it.

 

[warriorman222]

I don't care if he's a clone character. He's still from a way over represented series.
I don't mind clones, like Dr. Mario or Lucina.

But why couldn't we get a different clone character??!??

Dark Samus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Ms. Pacman, Louie, Zero, Pockle, Funky Kong, Daisy...

Anyone else agree?? Did anyone even want Dark Pit...

Because not one of those deserve to be clones. Dark Pit is canonically a clone form Sakurai's series, meaning he will be in and never get his own moveset. I expected him to be in, almost exactly the way he was.

 

[warriorman222]

Also, I;'m voting Dark Pit because none of those characters you mentioned, or any at all deserve to be clones, and those that do have other stuff that make them not deserve to be playable. Not even Dark Pit deserves clone status, but he's gonna keep it because he's a clone by canon, concept and design.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'd take Galacta Knight over Dark Pit. Because Galacta Knight using Brawl MK's mechanics would be cruel yet awesome. But no we have Pittoo and we are stuck with him. If you like using Pit you now have the selection of having slightly different properties and a choice of a different sound pack to use.

 

[warriorman222]

I'd take Galacta Knight over Dark Pit. Because Galacta Knight using Brawl MK's mechanics would be cruel yet awesome. But no we have Pittoo and we are stuck with him. If you like using Pit you now have the selection of having slightly different properties and a choice of a different sound pack to use.

Imagine the strongest warrior in the universe fighting like the strongest warrior in the world. At least Meta Knight acheived his life goal and maintained it for 6 years.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Imagine the strongest warrior in the universe fighting like the strongest warrior in the world. At least Meta Knight acheived his life goal and maintained it for 6 years.

Well Meta beat Galacta so technically Meta should be the strongest hoo hah. Come Smash 4 he got dropped a peg. If anything I wish we got the Galacta Knight battle theme to jam to.

 

[Folt]

The Dark Pit staff is pretty much the strongest weapon that Pittoo is shown to use, and is also associated with him even if it's not his signature weapon, so it fits rather handily as a Final Smash. Besides that, the choice between them is mostly preference-based which is p cool.

 

[NoteBlock]

We could hope for Dark Pit to be removed, but Sakurai would never through away his baby... unless he finally decides to quit?

 

[LancerStaff]

We could hope for Dark Pit to be removed, but Sakurai would never through away his baby... unless he finally decides to quit?

They'll just include him in the next game since it takes so little to add him. And Sakurai will be watching over the new guy's shoulder anyway, assuming he actually doesn't make the next one.

 

[MagiusNecros]

They'll just include him in the next game since it takes so little to add him. And Sakurai will be watching over the new guy's shoulder anyway, assuming he actually doesn't make the next one.

Sakurai always says there won't be another sequel and that he won't make it and guess what? He ends up making it once Nintendo knocks on his door. He'll have to keel over first.

 

[Comorant]

But then people would cry about how Viridi didn't deserve to get in Smash and how she is a Palutena clone.

Yeah but look at it this way.

Half Sized Palutena.

Like, a really tiny Palutena clone.

Imagine Little Billy getting his Wii U and Smash for Christmas, playing through classic with everyone, and then finally getting brave enough to try out For Glory.

Only to find a very tiny Palutena there to wreck his day.

Plus we'd have months of people debating the viability of the two characters like the old days of Marth vs Roy feuds all because we have this tiny Palutena clone running around.

It's Beautiful.

 

[MarthOfHyrule]

Seriously tho, I think the roster is perfect. Just in the next Smash game, make Dark pit and Dr mario alternate costumes and every time you choose that costume, specialized weapons show up in game (silver bow, megAvitamins, etc

Roy should not be in the game unless the announcer calls sound different for Roy koopa and Roy.

 

[Tino]

I don't get why some of you people are still whining and complaining about the clones being in the games. If you don't like them, don't play as them or use them as punching bags for all I care. The fact is there in, get over it.

As far as Dark Pit is concerned, I actually enjoy having him around and I'm sure Dark Pit mains are, too.

 

[MarthOfHyrule]

Tino is right. There are always going to be clones. Besides, even with dark pit, would you still get the game? Probably.