why is sheik so low on the tier list?

[riocosta123]

The real reason Sheik is bad (not really bad, but slightly below average) is because her defensive options are very poor. This fact is made extremely evident in her disadvantadged matchups. Marth, Snake, Lucario and ROB are all extremely good at controlling space and limiting her options, especially when Sheik is trying to get back on to the stage (not just recovery wise, but also from the ledge). Sheik really has nothing to fear OOS outside of maybe Nair, which still does not have much range. She does have a projectile in needles, but it is fairly deliberate.

This is not to say that she doesn't have good tools, especially offensive ones, and they help her stay close with a fair amount of characters, but in a game where defense is valued more than offense Sheik simply doesn't have the options that other characters do.

And yes, I am/was a Sheik main, and yes I have beaten ranked players in tournament and money matches with her.

In addition to all I've said, there are very few Sheik players that puts up consistently good results in difficult regions such as WC, EC, Texas, Florida (although I think Snakeee uses her occasionally). If you want to see her go up, get top 8 in a regional and start placing in locals.

 

[Judo777]

stay on the edge-side of single ic and near the edge, as long as there are platforms (FD should be banned) you should be able to outcamp a single IC and force them to come to you.
I'm not sure if single IC can BPG sheik during the cg but if not you should be just fine as long as you stay near an edge which also means more chances of getting them offstage.

I think you missed my point. Sheik should not lose to solo IC. but the reason this matchup is so stupid is because even when you split them up (which btw sheik sucks at doing) you cant just chase down and kill one IC very easily because the other one can still hurt you bad by himself and if one of them grabs you they can cg u btw them self until nana can catch up with him and then you die.

 

[Judo777]

The real reason Sheik is bad (not really bad, but slightly below average) is because her defensive options are very poor. This fact is made extremely evident in her disadvantadged matchups. Marth, Snake, Lucario and ROB are all extremely good at controlling space and limiting her options, especially when Sheik is trying to get back on to the stage (not just recovery wise, but also from the ledge). Sheik really has nothing to fear OOS outside of maybe Nair, which still does not have much range. She does have a projectile in needles, but it is fairly deliberate.

This is not to say that she doesn't have good tools, especially offensive ones, and they help her stay close with a fair amount of characters, but in a game where defense is valued more than offense Sheik simply doesn't have the options that other characters do.

And yes, I am/was a Sheik main, and yes I have beaten ranked players in tournament and money matches with her.

In addition to all I've said, there are very few Sheik players that puts up consistently good results in difficult regions such as WC, EC, Texas, Florida (although I think Snakeee uses her occasionally). If you want to see her go up, get top 8 in a regional and start placing in locals.

Its funny you bring that up because of the 4 characters you named Lucario is the only matchup that is really very bad at all. The others are fairly even.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The real reason Sheik is bad (not really bad, but slightly below average) is because her defensive options are very poor. This fact is made extremely evident in her disadvantadged matchups. Marth, Snake, Lucario and ROB are all extremely good at controlling space and limiting her options, especially when Sheik is trying to get back on to the stage (not just recovery wise, but also from the ledge). Sheik really has nothing to fear OOS outside of maybe Nair, which still does not have much range. She does have a projectile in needles, but it is fairly deliberate.
I am calling bull ****.
Sheik only appears to be straight up defensive because everyone is use to the standered defensive wall.
Instead Sheik can use her speed to out maneuver the foe. She also has a decent camping game and she can just out space + Chain. She can also punish Marth for Fairing her shield be performing DA out of shield (a total of 14 frames). Marth has to east a total of 16 frames of lag.
A well timed Vanish also counters some attacks. It gets invincibility frames and if they go to attack you they screw themselves.
On top of that SH Nair's work as a good cross up and can be done OoS.
Also, B reversal when recovering allows you to Bair potential gimpers.
She also has a good guessing game on recovering. If they don't grab the edge then Chain is perfect. If they do then go up and diagnol.
She can also plank some what with Needle's, stall under the ledge with a wall cling, has the tightest instant wall jump, can Vanish buffer out of ledge hop> Needle's, she can play Vanish mind games, tether stall, rising Fair, Bair on stage, Nair, second jump> double jump> B reversed Needle, wave bounced Needle charge onto the stage and of course your normal options.

This is not to say that she doesn't have good tools, especially offensive ones, and they help her stay close with a fair amount of characters, but in a game where defense is valued more than offense Sheik simply doesn't have the options that other characters do.
The best way to play Sheik is to put the foe on defense, pick them with needles and punish anything they do.

And yes, I am/was a Sheik main, and yes I have beaten ranked players in tournament and money matches with her.

In addition to all I've said, there are very few Sheik players that puts up consistently good results in difficult regions such as WC, EC, Texas, Florida (although I think Snakeee uses her occasionally). If you want to see her go up, get top 8 in a regional and start placing in locals.

*red

(and) I doubt I will be able to start going. Things are coming up excuse excuse excuse.

 

[riocosta123]

Rob, Snake, Lucario and Marth are all 60:40 (I really loathe the ROB matchup, but that's because I've played against Chibo and Tommy). I actually think Lucario is the easiest because his defenses are easier to crack/easier to gimp.

Also, there's a difference between playing defensive and having bad defensive options.Obviously, Sheik needs to aggress, because her defensive options aren't good, it's not exactly a choice. And again, Brawl definitely places a higher emphasis on defense, if you disagree with this, you are either ignorant or refuse to watch years of tournament videos. All those bad matchups I mentioned the opponents defense options are much better than Sheik's offensive options (especially Snake, Marth OoS,, Rob)

If you think needles completely destroy ROB, Snake or Marth, you are not playing good people (Chibo, DSF, MikeHaze). Good players know how to powershield and limit space without getting too close or too far (especially good Snakes who know the matchup *cough* DSF *cough*).

 

[Lore]

There are several reasons why she's low.

1. She has bad matchups against the higher tier characters.
2. She GENERALLY has few killing options. You can still kill fairly easily, but its also very predictable.
3. Under representation. There aren't very many Sheik mains who do well or even compete in tourneys.

I agree that she needs to go higher, but not much higher.

 

[Judo777]

I had a big long post typed up as to why i disagree with what rico said but then i deleted it so ill sum it up. Everyone will agree the boards are wrong with alot of the MU numbers. We can juggle snake and camp him to an extent and if we try hard we can gimp him. Rob only makes it hard for us to kill him but rob has a farily hard mu against zelda so that fixes that imo. Marth ***** us at one specific range but we win at ranges closer and farther away. We can gimp each other about evenly. Lucario is the hardest imo because we have to rack him up to about 140 to kill him and at that point he hurts sooo bad.

@werekill ur 2nd and 3rd points are valid. 1st point however i disagree with because sheik actually does fairly well against top tiers. MK probably being the worst she goes almost even with most of S tier. A tier is where we get wrecked with ICs, pika, kirby, Oli, GW (alothough i never have trouble), and (alothough he is top of B tier) Lucario.

 

[-Mars-]

I played MikeHaze in a friendly this weekend and got it down to one stock......have the feeling he wasn't playing a hundred percent though.

I have a strong feeling that Lucario is one of Sheiks hardest matchups after this weekend.

 

[J4pu]

i got mikehaze to mid percent last stock in a MM (with falco) last year.
point being, mikehaze sandbags hard when he doesn't see you as a threat, even when there's money on the line.
mikeHAZE>>>>>> my falco

no offense to you though, I'm sure your sheik is great.

 

[clowsui]

i almost beat mike in 3 marth dittos in july lol...when i had a stock lead on him he brought out the **** though every time

he sandbags SO hard lol

 

[Lore]

I had a big long post typed up as to why i disagree with what rico said but then i deleted it so ill sum it up. Everyone will agree the boards are wrong with alot of the MU numbers. We can juggle snake and camp him to an extent and if we try hard we can gimp him. Rob only makes it hard for us to kill him but rob has a farily hard mu against zelda so that fixes that imo. Marth ***** us at one specific range but we win at ranges closer and farther away. We can gimp each other about evenly. Lucario is the hardest imo because we have to rack him up to about 140 to kill him and at that point he hurts sooo bad.

@werekill ur 2nd and 3rd points are valid. 1st point however i disagree with because sheik actually does fairly well against top tiers. MK probably being the worst she goes almost even with most of S tier. A tier is where we get wrecked with ICs, pika, kirby, Oli, GW (alothough i never have trouble), and (alothough he is top of B tier) Lucario.

Snake has a MUCH better camping game and he kills Sheik far too easily for it to be a decent matchup.

A tier counts as a higher tier. >_>

 

[BrianTheLion]

shiek is just bad

 

[Mic_128]

Question answered.