"Why is Smash Bros the laughing stock of fighters?"

[wowoduend]

I would not say Smash is a fighter. Though i would say it's a party fighting game. Like MvC2. Smash is not all party game. It has casual and competitive aspects. Though thats been said already.

Edit.

 

[Jakandsig]

Mvs.c2 is not a party-fighting game. Know your fighters.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Um. Because it's a cartoon? Clearly, Smash Bros is a very different atmosphere than works such as Mortal Kombat or Soul Calibur. Or Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Calibur, Soul Fighter, Street Tekken and the many other cookie-cutter fighting games.

 

[TheloTheGreat]

Ever see a T. Hawk vs E. Honda match?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ax-OopF8Y

Hah, I was wondering why there suddenly was a bunch of comments on this video today! (I'm the Honda player there)

For what it's worth, I play Street Fighter competitively, but I'm cool with you guys. Final Smashes and extensive banlists are pretty weird to me, but oh well. Just keep rockin' and doing your own thing.

 

[Zodiac]

Well ****, I browsed most of those boards and Im pretty surprised by the sheer amount of ignorance contained there-in. Most of them argue that it takes less skill when items and stages are banned, which tells us that they really have no knowledge of the game and don't know that items unbalance the game. Furthermore a lot of them seem to have it in their head that we just like to play, no items, fox only , final destination. Its the "Laughing stock" of fighters because of several reasons.

1.Its on Nintendo, traditionally fighters don't appear on Nintendo, Tasunoku vs capcom will get similarly bad publicity.

2.Its not a traditional figther, while anyone can see smash IS a fighting game and it obviously draws its roots from the traditional fighting game genre. Since its different people kind of just have an auto-fail attitude towards it.

3.Stages, smash stages are incredibly varied compared to other fighting games, we have multiple platforms.

And most of all because the forums for other fighters just don't have open minds about the game, they dont think it could possibly be a serious game because they probably saw their 12 year old cousin or something playing with items and 3 of his friends.

 

[ETWIST51294]

TvC is very successful in the competitive scene. Just pointing that out.

 

[Zodiac]

TvC is very successful in the competitive scene. Just pointing that out.

In the U.S.?

 

[Big-Cat]

1.Its on Nintendo, traditionally fighters don't appear on Nintendo, Tasunoku vs capcom will get similarly bad publicity.

That has nothing to do with it. Besides, are you forgetting Soul Caliber 2? Also, I've seen on SRK that 360 and PS3 owners would love to have TvC ported to that console. That should say something about its publicity.

2.Its not a traditional figther, while anyone can see smash IS a fighting game and it obviously draws its roots from the traditional fighting game genre. Since its different people kind of just have an auto-fail attitude towards it.

Surely the flaws of the games have nothing to do with it.

3.Stages, smash stages are incredibly varied compared to other fighting games, we have multiple platforms.

Where are you seeing this hate?

And most of all because the forums for other fighters just don't have open minds about the game, they dont think it could possibly be a serious game because they probably saw their 12 year old cousin or something playing with items and 3 of his friends.

Yet we had kids that age and younger back when 2D fighters came out. Assuming what you said isn't an over generalization, the others have forgotten their roots.

In the U.S.?

I can't answer that, but remember that the game just came out.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Especially in the US even since the Japanese release. ^_^

 

[Zodiac]

That has nothing to do with it. Besides, are you forgetting Soul Caliber 2? Also, I've seen on SRK that 360 and PS3 owners would love to have TvC ported to that console. That should say something about its publicity.

That just means they dont want to get a wii for it, and hopefully its not ever ported over, and frankly nintendo has not been looked at as a hardcore console for years, that died with the gamecube and even a little on the n64. People have long long looked at cube/wii as a kiddy console. And they would logically assume,(Assuming they look at nintendo as a kiddy console) that all the games exclusive to it are in fact for kids and party games. This is why they have an auto fail mentality when it comes to smash.

Surely the flaws of the games have nothing to do with it.

It depends on which game your looking at, brawl has a **** ton of flaws in the balance, melee, not so much.

Where are you seeing this hate?

Did I say anything about hate? which post are you reading?

Yet we had kids that age and younger back when 2D fighters came out. Assuming what you said isn't an over generalization, the others have forgotten their roots.

the problem with that analysis is that back when the 2d fighters came out there were no hardcore crowds, there were no fighting game standards. fighting games invented the "Hardcore gamer" and the hardcore game genre, before those we mostly just had silly little arcade games, nothing that could be called hardcore. Now the same crowd that grew up with street fighter is still there and playing. Smash bros. was a very late entry into the world of fighting games. so what you said about them forgetting their roots is very true.

I can't answer that, but remember that the game just came out.

I hope it will catch on, although I'll probably never play it.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

It won't be ported over. Even the arcade cabinet it was built into works like a wii. TvC will deffinately be a wii exclusive. It'd cost too much to do anything more than what's been done. I'm just glad I didn't have to import it and Zero and my favorite Megaman. Zero and Volnutt (maybe not strategically) is just awesome.

Smash is not a traditional fighter. And was never intended to be serious. That's probably part of why Sakurai purposely took the elements ouf of the new game he did. And the fact that it seems like everything on the wii must be rediculously easy.

Street Fighter isn't realistic, they have a Little Hulk/Pikachu with orange hair abomination as one of it's main characters lol

Plus this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ09-rUFlKY

Games like Street Fighter, Soul Caliber, Tekken, and Virtua Fighter are created with the knowledge, and the acceptance that the players are going to disect the game to it's basest elements and will find and utilize any errors in programming or oversights they make and even support it.

They are forced to make an extremely solid playing game with everything that comes with that ie: controls, character balance, properly working hitboxes etc, because they know it will be picked apart by the main population of gamers that will be purchasing said games. The "hard core gamer" is their main demographic.

Smash..on the other hand...the competitve community is kinda the minority here. If not literally and I do believe it is literally or at least was when it came out and sold the most, it's obviously not Nintendo's target demographic. As a party or party/fighter game it's good enough as far as the mechanics go and great fun.

As a traditional, balanced, thought out, structured, polished fighter..it's truely sub par in comparison..

We, the community made the game a fighter. And as we have it, it does do a pretty good job..but to traditional fighting enthusiests..it's probably not worth their effort for the results they are going to get.

 

[Kitamerby]

2.Its not a traditional figther, while anyone can see smash IS a fighting game and it obviously draws its roots from the traditional fighting game genr

Smash actually draws most of its roots from Kirby. Just wanted to say that.

They hate us more then other fighters because we hold 600+ Brawl tournaments in a year and have hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money and are the most popular and best selling fighting game.

So, we are the biggest target, which is why we get the most ****.

But we still can't get a real slot at EVO, and MLG doesn't love us anymore. :\

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But we still can't get a real slot at EVO, and MLG doesn't love us anymore. :\

Because they want to undermine our rule set and force rules that they very well know we don't endorse.

They think EVO is the highest level of tournament play, so it can't be broken unless it breaks EVO.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Especially in the US even since the Japanese release. ^_^

TvC is a much better game than Brawl or Melee imo. Do not get me wrong, I love smash, but TvC is not like MvC2 or Brawl or Melee because all of its characters are viable. Every one. Even though MvC2 had ~54 characters, maybe 10 were actually worth using.

 

[Kuraudo]

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom is definitely a well-balanced fighter.

But in anycase,

Not to add fuel to the fire of a heated debate in the tactical discussion already, but... I'm sure a lot of the fighting game community can look down on us for the seemingly endless squabbling over the status on Meta Knight. To us, it's a dilemna to the evolution of the metagame, whether it gets healthier or sick. To them?

It's probably just silly.

 

[ETWIST51294]

They think EVO is the highest level of tournament play, so it can't be broken unless it breaks EVO.

*cough*SBO*cough*

And Brawl got us kicked out of EVO. Thanks Brawl.

 

[LuLLo]

Smash actually draws most of its roots from Kirby. Just wanted to say that.

Nope, the idea of Smash began with a pinball-machine, after that comes the ''2D fighter/platformer in a 3D realm'' thing, and THAT idea was long taken by games before Smash (Like Mario for the Virtual Boy...lol...).

 

[Christian_CAO]

Nope, the idea of Smash began with a pinball-machine, after that comes the ''2D fighter/platformer in a 3D realm'' thing, and THAT idea was long taken by games before Smash (Like Mario for the Virtual Boy...lol...).

lol... A pinball machine eh? Well twenty year old egg on my face
Ah, I only thought that smash was based off of kirby super star cause I played the two games a long time ago and compared them. I didn't have any real info on the "origin" of SMASH (though Brawl is the closet to being as Kirby Super Star as it gets...). In my defense though... Sakurai still has yet to "make" a game that isn't based off of his Kirby games... unless there's some game he helped create buried deep under ground or something...

 

[Shorts]

the people who hate smash have never played it. seriously EVERYONE i know whos played it likes it.
Boys, girls, kids, adults, gay, straight EVERYONE.
and you know a game is good if even me and my fellow gays are playin it! even girls like it!

even halo players at my school cant deny smash is fun.

 

[Big-Cat]

Smash..on the other hand...the competitve community is kinda the minority here. If not literally and I do believe it is literally or at least was when it came out and sold the most, it's obviously not Nintendo's target demographic. As a party or party/fighter game it's good enough as far as the mechanics go and great fun.

As a traditional, balanced, thought out, structured, polished fighter..it's truely sub par in comparison..

It's really difficult to determine as to what Nintendo, or Sakurai in particular, wants with the series. They have explicitly acknowledged that tournaments go on what with the tournament scene described once in Nintendo Power, tournaments were mentioned in a letter to Sakurai back in the pre-Brawl days, and I believe Nintendo has officially endorsed tournaments in the past.

It seems to me that there are two predominant problems with the series more than anything else:
1. Every game developed has suffered some kind of limitation.
- 64 had budget, Melee had time, Brawl had the SSE consume time. The games might have been more rigid in its coding had it not been for these.
2. The games are perhaps too "scrub friendly"
- Sakurai has always referred to beginners which is now getting to the point that he's not giving newbies enough credit and that his desires are at the expense of people who aren't newbies anymore.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

*cough*SBO*cough*

And Brawl got us kicked out of EVO. Thanks Brawl.

Wrong.

Mr. Wizard kicked us out because he tried to force an item rule set on us again and the community back-lashed. So wanting to go on his little power trip, along with the fact he doesn't like Smash, he booted smash out of Evo.

Do research before making stupid comments like this again.

@TvC: Don't call the cast viable until the game is out longer, the game was kicked from the first release but we need to wait longer before people make these claims.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Thats funny considering that Evo2k9 had NORMAL rules with NO ITEMS. Do your research. Melee never got smash kicked off, Brawl did.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

It's really difficult to determine as to what Nintendo, or Sakurai in particular, wants with the series. They have explicitly acknowledged that tournaments go on what with the tournament scene described once in Nintendo Power, tournaments were mentioned in a letter to Sakurai back in the pre-Brawl days, and I believe Nintendo has officially endorsed tournaments in the past.

It seems to me that there are two predominant problems with the series more than anything else:
1. Every game developed has suffered some kind of limitation.
- 64 had budget, Melee had time, Brawl had the SSE consume time. The games might have been more rigid in its coding had it not been for these.
2. The games are perhaps too "scrub friendly"
- Sakurai has always referred to beginners which is now getting to the point that he's not giving newbies enough credit and that his desires are at the expense of people who aren't newbies anymore.

Nintendo's general big thing this whole generation including brawl has been to help the new player/non gamer/grandpa/what have you and they've taken it to the point where in many's opinion, it's at the expense of game quality.

 

[Big-Cat]

Nintendo's general big thing this whole generation including brawl has been to help the new player/non gamer/grandpa/what have you and they've taken it to the point where in many's opinion, it's at the expense of game quality.

Care to explain why we have SMG 2 geared for the hardcore, Metroid Other M having a large story focus, and just Zelda in general? Ever since they announced it last year, Nintendo is going to be catering to both audiences. It's this direction they've taken that gives me hope that SSB4 can be good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Thats funny considering that Evo2k9 had NORMAL rules with NO ITEMS. Do your research. Melee never got smash kicked off, Brawl did.

Not as main station. Street Fighter and others got much better support than smash, past Evo's for smash, excluding early Melee events, were supported much better than Brawl was at 2K9.

It was on the side as a side event because we didn't endorse their ruleset before and they booted us for a year.

Brawl didn't do it, Smash did.

Cut your bias, it's making you much less credible.

 

[SmashChu]

*cough*SBO*cough*

And Brawl got us kicked out of EVO. Thanks Brawl.

Brawl was removed from EVO due to the attitude of the players, namely there whining. Everyone whined and cried rather then trying a new rule set that was never tested. Brawl was a new game and, logically, Mr. Wizzard decided to use a rule set that made sense for Brawl. Items are in Brawl and they don't break the risk/reward system, so they are good to go. While the rule set is a matter of opinion, one people are allowed to disagree on, people acted like children laughing at him and throwing temper tantrums. EVO didn't want to deal with Smash plays, so they kicked Smash out of EVO.

The community got Smash thrown out of EVO.

Nope, the idea of Smash began with a pinball-machine, after that comes the ''2D fighter/platformer in a 3D realm'' thing, and THAT idea was long taken by games before Smash (Like Mario for the Virtual Boy...lol...).

No, Smash is Kirby Super Star the Fighting Game. Play the game and you'll see the similarities (even the music).

 

[BG3]

A pinball machine? Really? That's pretty strange.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Not as main station. Street Fighter and others got much better support than smash, past Evo's for smash, excluding early Melee events, were supported much better than Brawl was at 2K9.

It was on the side as a side event because we didn't endorse their ruleset before and they booted us for a year.

Brawl didn't do it, Smash did.

Cut your bias, it's making you much less credible.

How am I becoming less credible? Melee used to be LIKED by Evo, they even use to call us mini marvel. Brawl lasted TWO YEARS. Am I lieing? Melee had nothing to do with smash getting kicked off of Evo.

I like how you act like you're some all knowing top pro or some ****. Guess what? You aren't. Why should I care about being credible to you?

@SmashChu: I'm sorry, but can you not put our scenes together? Melee and Brawl are two different communities. Their overall community is more likely to cry because their scene has much younger crowd of players. It wasn't Smashers attitude, it was Brawlers attitude.

 

[BG3]

LMAO at your sig ETWIST!!

 

[Alphatron]

How am I becoming less credible? Melee used to be LIKED by Evo, they even use to call us mini marvel. Brawl lasted TWO YEARS. Am I lieing? Melee had nothing to do with smash getting kicked off of Evo.

I like how you act like you're some all knowing top pro or some ****. Guess what? You aren't. Why should I care about being credible to you?

@SmashChu: I'm sorry, but can you not put our scenes together? Melee and Brawl are two different communities. Their overall community is more likely to cry because their scene has much younger crowd of players. It wasn't Smashers attitude, it was Brawlers attitude.

Then wouldn't it be the community and not the game itself?

 

[ETWIST51294]

It was both.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How am I becoming less credible? Melee used to be LIKED by Evo, they even use to call us mini marvel. Brawl lasted TWO YEARS. Am I lieing? Melee had nothing to do with smash getting kicked off of Evo.

I like how you act like you're some all knowing top pro or some ****. Guess what? You aren't. Why should I care about being credible to you?

@SmashChu: I'm sorry, but can you not put our scenes together? Melee and Brawl are two different communities. Their overall community is more likely to cry because their scene has much younger crowd of players. It wasn't Smashers attitude, it was Brawlers attitude.

First off

Then wouldn't it be the community and not the game itself?

^This, second,

Brawl wasn't at fault for this, smash itself and the community were at fault for getting kicked out. If they were trying to add items to Melee people would have whined the same way.

Guess what, Melee wasn't a main event until 2K7 when it got actual coverage rather than being a side event. Evo didn't like the game until it's community shaped up and hyped the series.

Two years, gee I dunno maybe that's because the game has only been out for two years, surprise surprise. The age difference, that is attributed to the fact most newer player go for Brawl over Melee, newer game and all that. It's like people going for Street Fighter 4 rather than Street fighter 3S, newer game easier to find. Melee has a larger entrance barrier compared to Brawl, it's harder for people to get into it for some people. The age gap is mostly from a combination of that and the Melee fans sticking to the game. So the whinier players who know very little about the game get into it.

The only reason I'm more credible is the fact you can't seem to drop your hate for Brawl and your **** sucking for Melee. Am I a pro? no, I never claimed to be one. I like Brawl more than Melee, Slower less stiff feeling gameplay dunno how to explain it, but I'm actually attributing the causes of what happened with Evo to what actually happened, not "Because of Brawl."

 

[ETWIST51294]

Melee actually tested items before. Brawl DIDN'T. Thats why items were forced in like that.

I get the new game ****. I hate it too. A new game does not equal a better game but thats how so many people think. And Melee players never *****d and cried about anything(accept for brawl) but look at you guys, WAHHH MKs TOO GOOD WAH BAN HIM, WAHH PLANKINGS TOO GOOD, WAH SCROOGINGS BROKEN, just shut up and play the **** game. ****

Brawls not less stiff but lets not go into that.

edit: BTW i know you're not one of those *****y brawlers and I commend you for that.

 

[Kitamerby]

I find it funny that people still want to test out items after EVO 2K8.

Even when random wifi casual players came out of nowhere to beat big name players with lucky item spawns, even when one of the best smash players in the world lost to a random no-name at the time due to the kid simply getting lucky with the smashballs and having one of the best final smashes, the people who don't actually play the game competitively still think that items still MIGHT hold some merit in a tournament setting.

I honestly find that hilarious. After that horrid ****fest, I would've sworn that nobody would ever even dare to bring up the prospect of items in a tournament setting afterwards.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I don't like items lol. I was simply stating why Evo used that ruleset. Melee used items for about 3 years, you guys just used our ruleset on a completely different game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Melee actually tested items before. Brawl DIDN'T. Thats why items were forced in like that.

Hylian actually said the SBR tested items for Brawl before Evo, Evo didn't listen to our community and the immature part of the community whined like crazy and got us booted. Evo doesn't think something is broken until it breaks Evo since they assume Evo is the biggest or biggest tournaments around and that is only what matters.

Items were even a touchy subject in Melee with West coast vs East a while back.

I get the new game ****. I hate it too. A new game does not equal a better game but thats how so many people think. And Melee players never *****d and cried about anything(accept for brawl) but look at you guys, WAHHH MKs TOO GOOD WAH BAN HIM, WAHH PLANKINGS TOO GOOD, WAH SCROOGINGS BROKEN, just shut up and play the **** game. ****

I agree with the new game BS players go for. I like MvC1 way more than MvC2, half the cast doesn't have multiple infinites and the top 4 don't run the show.

Are you kidding me about the whining about the game stuff? The whining of Sheik? then the whining of Fox? People whined about Melee just like they did with Brawl.

MK is debatable, but I'm against his ban.

Scrooging is stalling plain and simple.

Planking I worked on a project to test who was wrecked by it or not, the only character that gave the cast serious problems while planking was MK.

You are right about the last point, people need to shut up and play the game more.

Brawls not less stiff but lets not go into that.

kk.

 

[Kitamerby]

Items were definitely better in Melee anyways.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah, nobody ever whined about Fox or Sheik. Sorry. :l

People do whine about Puff tho, mainly because there's not one, but TWO puffs that are good and one can't beat the other without using Puff. But we've stop whining over Jiggs, now we're just trying to find a counter. Right now we're on Doc.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, nobody ever whined about Fox or Sheik. Sorry. :l

In the past people did, mostly in the early days of Melee. Sheik whining went down when people realized she wasn't the best in the game at the time.

People do whine about Puff tho, mainly because there's not one, but TWO puffs that are good and one can't beat the other without using Puff. But we've stop whining over Jiggs, now we're just trying to find a counter. Right now we're on Doc.

Whining about Jiggs sounds silly, no offense.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Jiggs is pretty **** good. People did complain about Sheik, but no one complained about Fox. Sheik was easy to play and all of the other characters weren't really played right yet. lol

Jiggs is mad hard to beat tho, especially for a Falcon player like me.