X is the best sonic.

[Chis]

Go ahead I suppose, as long as it remains civil.

 

[Xyro77]

ok ill make it. gimmi just a bit

 

[Trent]

Oh god.. Xyro strikes again.

 

[Zatchiel]

Xyro gonna get @ San for some matches.
The apocalypse is in production.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

this is the best thing EVER

 

[da K.I.D.]

xyro, I will hype that shiz up so hard, you dont even know. me and espy are straight up MASTERS at trolling Xs region.

 

[Zatchiel]

KID, you must teach me your methods.

 

[Aglow]

I heard X was the best sonic. Did anyone here hear that?

 

[황미영]

I'm deaf. I can't hear.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

thats cause your in the kitchen too busy cooking up a delicious steak to hear all the type amirite

 

[Zatchiel]

3nergy is too good. XD

 

[Sexy Yaz]

You guys should be getting ready to troll Tyrant and DSF harder.
I mean, M2K actually won the game. These two scrubs didn't.
Hell, you should troll Tyrant for losing TWICE

If you're really calling two of the better players out there scrubs... You're insulting all the amazing players they've both beaten.

He took TWO games off of M2K... with SONIC!! I don't think you understand the magnitude of this. He GIMPED M2K... With SONIC! Who else can say they've gimped M2K twice in one set???? M2K said himself that X is a great player and was happy he had a challenge at S.I.N. 2. He also said the skill level between him and the next sonic is tremendous. Yes, he said he's a ton better than you

There's no reason to troll amazing players for losing to other amazing players...

X has shown consistency in his play and deserves the recognition he's getting.

This is a major meat riding post but it's the least I can do for my bro ;0 :D :D

 

[Espy Rose]

They lost to Sonic with Sonic's worst match up in the game (Tyrant, at least. TWICE. Who did DSF use?).
They suck. It's that simple, really.

And I'm not taking away anything. X ***** the West Coast.

also interesting is this Sonic named X just beat DSF 2-0 and Tyrant 2-0 (2 stocked tyrant first game), then I beat him 3-0, then he beat Tyrant in losers finals 3-2 last stock high %, then I beat him 3-2. I was about to get 3-0d but I made a big comeback. Got a 3 stock 3rd game too. He is by far the best sonic. He also got 2nd in teams barely barely beating DSF and Tyrant in a rematch set that went to game 5 using a Sonic + Rob team vs double MK.

I read this as, "I was about to get 3-0'd, but I forgot that I was Meta Knight."

=====

Still, good **** to X for destroying everyone in the West Coast, as well as M2K (for two rounds, at least).

 

[Suspect]

Lol Utah/WC

 

[Tenki]

I read this as, "I was about to get 3-0'd, but I forgot that I was Meta Knight."

i lol'd

then i went to check the thread but is a protected post >:[

 

[~TBS~]

I love this thread. hmm......it just makes me wonder about alot of things........

 

[JayBee]

link the tourney results thread please. im having trouble finding it. Good stuff X. It boggles my mind how you win sometimes, but since you've done it consistantly for so long i clearly need to reevaluate how I play Sonic. This seriously lifted my sprits a bit concerning playing the blue blue in tourneys. I think as long as you dont play him on Smashville you'll beat him. just dont go there man.

I lol'd a lot the whole set. It really looked like you made M2K upset, because he got really aggro some points, outside of Sv, where he is way too comfortable playing the ol planky style. when he went to Pictochat, I was sure that X had it in the bag, but M2K is M2K is meta...


I hope we get a better quality of those matches soon.

espy: MK is sonic's worst matchup? since when?

 

[Kinzer]

Don't worry if you're having trouble finding it.

Chances are there isn't one up yet to begin with.

 

[Espy Rose]

lol.

Kojin's been gone way too long.
What do you think is Sonic's worst match up?

=====

Nah, it just took M2K three games into the GF set to remember what character he mained, and who he was playing against.

=====

We should all try the same style of gameplay that X does. Let's see how far we all go with it.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't think it was MK that got M2K the win. For some reason it just feels that X didn't try to abuse other things. Even though what he had was working for a while it only goes so far before a player; especially one of his opponents' caliber, will pick up on that and adapt. I'm not trying to downplay anything but I just cannot shake off that feeling that something was missing.

 

[Espy Rose]

Obviously should've done downB a little more.

 

[Dark Ryu]

Espy just mad and salty that he isn't that good. So who cares.

Good job bro.

 

[Kinzer]

I hope you're not joking now papa. I am really trying to observe all this, because all I can do is analyze until I can go to more tournaments. :< Plus I want to get better and I want to know why X is so successful and what can be improved on. Both in his style and my own.

I strive to become "the perfect Sonic," even if that's an impossible goal. I tossed my sanity out the window a long time ago.

 

[ithrowthings]

What I find unusual about X beating Tyrant and losing to M2K is that when I fought Tyrant at MLG he 2-stocked me both games. When I play M2K in friendlies and brackets and whatnot, I get him down to last stock med-high % and win sometimes. Tyrant really seems to know the Sonic matchup much more than M2K so I'm suprised X didn't beat M2K.

He probably fell victim to the classic "oh crap, I'm playing M2K!" trap. You'll get him next time (then he'll be forced to learn the matchup and be even more of a pain in the *** to sonic mains)

 

[shikashake2]

Sonic's matchups are known for depending largely on player style, perhaps moreso than any other character, but I think you have a point there.

Also, conrgats X! Next time you'll beat M2K, we believe in you!

 

[Espy Rose]

I hope you're not joking now papa. I am really trying to observe all this, because all I can do is analyze until I can go to more tournaments. :< Plus I want to get better and I want to know why X is so successful and what can be improved on. Both in his style and my own.

I strive to become "the perfect Sonic," even if that's an impossible goal. I tossed my sanity out the window a long time ago.

I'm just waiting for higher quality videos to be uploaded.
I wanna count how many downBs he used.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

does sonics side b and down b really play that much into how you use them in matches? like in terms of damage, follow ups or maybe even mind games?

 

[Kinzer]

does sonics side b and down b really play that much into how you use them in matches? like in terms of damage, follow ups or maybe even mind games?

I would go as far as to say that Sonic would not be where he is now without them. I'm not sure if you want a detailed response but I can give you one at request.

 

[Espy Rose]

D3: SDR wracks up damage, sets up for follow ups and tech-chases out of footstools, has a KO option at higher percents, and can trick your opponent if you sit there and charge it for different amounts of time.

During friendlies with Dojo/Infinity the other day, I just downB'd in place, and was able to bait the obvious shuttle loop, and punish accordingly.

They're good. Really, really good.
Sonic's pressure game wouldn't exist if they weren't here.

SideB alone is the reason why we counter pick Yoshi's Island and PictoChat.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

yea go for it kinzer, i dont/cant play sonic but i find his spin dash meta game very interesting

@espy, yea i know about some of side bs trickies with slants, however when we throw X into the equation-- whats he doing others arent? and why does it work?

 

[0mega 75]

While I was watching the uploaded vids they barely posted, I noticed that X used a lot of spindash. In my own opinion, I think he used it out of the blue and smart. I think thats mainly why, im guessing.

 

[Sinz]

Espy be mad.

Just sayin that some of the top players in the world suck is kind of funny.


Tyrant sucks according Espy.

I have tried to do that before and he said he would go but he ended up bailing on me. I even offered him free entry in singles/doubles/LOW TIER singles(when sonic was legal). He was gonna make LOADS of money and he still bailed.

that was my fault. I was supposed to find us some decent flights through my uncle. But we couldn't find anything.

 

[Espy Rose]

@espy, yea i know about some of side bs trickies with slants, however when we throw X into the equation-- whats he doing others arent? and why does it work?

He's doing it more often. That's about the only difference.

Funny thing is, you'd expect it to be punished every time (especially since he does it at alarmingly far distances which give the characters a heads up) he tries it, but it's not.

As for WHY it works: Either his SDR game is incredibly tricky, or the opponent is too stupid to throw out any attack with a little something called RANGE.

Hell, it's probably most likely both of those things.

@Sinz: Tyrant does suck. He's losing match ups that are practically free wins.
Oh, and drag X's *** down here. You guys were gonna be given free everythings by Xyro and you blew it!
Flushin' free money down the drain, boy!

 

[Dark 3nergy]

will you mm X bb espy

and i think you've said before that his spins are low priority..so yea i agree mix of both

 

[Espy Rose]

His spins have no priority, no range, and at farther distances, are easily projected in approach (unless you jump out of it in mid-spin, which puts you at a bad spot in the air if you're playing certain characters like Meta Knight).

As for a MM?
Sure, why not? It'd be hilariously boring.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

requesting there be a 10min timer rule for it

i know how bad those can get

*patiently waits for xyros thread*

 

[Espy Rose]

No.
No timer.

Only cowards time people out.

 

[Kinzer]

Edit: A lot of people posted before I could get this out of the way. Thisi s directed at Dark 3nergy but I suggest other people read it too.

Espy kind of gave the tl;dr already, or at the very least gave a more straightforward and direct response.

I really don't like to settle for absolutes in theorycraft though. Err well I don't know how I go about this kind of thing actually, but that's aside from the point.

I don't know where to begin to be honest. It's just like any other character who is notorious for one good option. Not like the top/high tiers who have more than one of those, or low/bottom tiers who may not even have an ace. Fox has his USmash, Ike has his Jabs... Sonic has his spin game if you want to be really simple about it.

Only because I play the character will I say that it's not just his Side-B and Down-B that are his trumps. Rather, those two moves assist in something(s) even greater. Sonic I believe is the embodiment of trickery and disarray. Sonic cannot be approached directly or you will be broken down and taken advantaged of. It's probably also safe to say that you have to think twice before you go on and about throwing an attack at a Sonic. He just has so many options, nevermind the effectiveness of them; that makes Sonic such a really difficult character to evaluate in a complete manner.

It could be argued that because Sonic's multitude of options are lackluster compared to some of the others that get more direct results, that there isn't much to be rewarded when investing into this character. I don't know about too many people, but as for myself I appreciate having more than one thing to fall back on at any given time. It may also be due to bias but I believe that Sonic's arsenal of assets are just, good enough to be able to get the same results. While it may be nice to have one thing that works a majority of the time, if it's the only thing that a character has going for them people will eventually figure out how it works and how to stop it dead in its track.

It is very difficult to find a situation where Sonic is vulnerable and/or cannot do something. A lot of the time he has something to break away or something that can force a reaction and counterattack a counterattack. Just because Sonic has to work one hundred times harder for the same result another character will get in another field they excel in does not mean that Sonic cannot get it done at all.

Spin Charge and Spin dash help so much in doing that because a lot of Sonic's "mindgame" options are in those two attacks alone. Not only that, but that also assist in something that Sonic already excels in, which is movement. The way Sonic moves is just one way that an opponent is forced to think about what he has to do in order to avoid taking damage. Another way to go about forcing an opponent to react is by using attacks not as a direct offensive act, but sort of like what a hypnotist does with mesmerizing his audience. Using Spin Charge as an example, yes it can be used to eat away someone's shield, however that's just one thing. Would it ever occur that perhaps the purpose was not to drain the shield but rather shield cancel the aerial Spin Charge right into a shield grab.

Why stop there? It doesn't always have to be a shieldgrab, because if that is abused as explained earlier, the opponent will pick up on it and avoid the situation all-together, if not counter that approach. Sonic could just very well go through with the attack and keep rolling past while the opponent was waiting for something else (or in some cases just doesn't know what to do).

Yes, I don't deny that I know of one surefire thing Sonic has that is guaranteed to never backfire on him, but at least Sonic can keep doing different things until something works, and move on to something else; or even go back to an option that may or may not have had success in the past, try that again and acquire a newfound attack. There is just so many things Sonic can do in Spin Charge and Spin Dash that will either act to reinforce something like offense, defense, resetting a situation, or take the lead in something else all-together... and etcera etcera (please don't make me go over everything, there's just simply too much).

I'm sorry if I am repeating myself at this point but I don't think it's possible to not do so when a lot of the times things are just... Hmm~, let' say "blast's from the past?"

 

[Sinz]

The thing I don't understand is how come every time that X places well. A bunch of you guys come out here and say oh he was playing against bad people.

 

[Kinzer]

A bunch?

I really only see Espy doing that kind of thing, and even then he's not entirely wrong.

At least not when he bothers to go into detail, and I'm not pointing directly at the "X plays bad people" argument.

Who else is "downplaying" X? (I put downplaying in quotes for a good reason(!))

Also, some guys should probably help X pay for a computer and/or a stable internet connection. I would help if I were actually able to get a job. I really wish he were able to post more often around here because I'm interested in what he has to say and what he thinks about some stuff.