Yoshi Tournament Results: End of an Era, A New Beginning? *updated August 19th

[RaptorTEC]

I never pulled it off that set, but I usually can dj out and down b through the middle of nado (happens semi frequently actually it just didnt work that set and of course it depends on whether the MK nado'd perfectly or not)

 

[CourageHound]

Looked rreeeaally greedy for the kill chasing after MK when you had the lead. But ya got the kill so thats all that matters I guess. Just kinda risky imo.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yeah after watching the set I realized i need to try and not panic because i started getting really desperate for the kill.

 

[CourageHound]

Don't ever down b during nado, I just usually di under nado & uair

You cant SDI nado. Once you get hit you are stuck till it pops you up. Getting under it is out of the question once you get hit.

 

[Nikes]

While on the topic of nado, I've been able to Uair MK at the end of it sometimes, but I can't do it consistently. Can anyone shed some light on this? (Guessing MK would have to be descending)

 

[YellowRello]

anyone knows for sure? let me know.

 

[Delta-cod]

"Paddy Blank 1 day ago
the yoshi timout win vs meta knight is finally up! this is history"

This guy must be new. Gotta admit though, that timeout was impressive.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yellow you can't sdi out of nado. If you get out that's because MK didn't nado right. Although I do think you can sometimes DJ out even if they are doing it right. Not too sure on that one @.@

Delta, when the timeout happened the first thing that popped in my mind was "Delta would be so proud :3c" Funny thing is I didn't even realize time was running out until after I got dash attacked at the 10 sec mark.

 

[CourageHound]

Once i've been popped out of nado, all i've ever been able to do was Yoshi Bomb if the MK hadn't touch the ground at the end of the nado.

Speaking of yoshi bomb, i was messing around yesterday and was practicing B-Air > Footstool > Yoshi Bomb on a lot of characters at low mid to mid percents. Does yosh have a more powerful followup after the footstool other than Yoshi Bomb? Kinda sad we don't have a true job lock.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Maybe DJC egg lay? I'm assuming this is on the ground?

 

[CourageHound]

Right above the ground yes. Egg lay does sound interesting, but i almost always waste my double jump by accident going for the footstool...

 

[Deleted member 189823]

How does one not "'nado right'"? Do you have to press B really fast so they can't pop out?

 

[Sinister Slush]

That and not following the movements of your enemy rigt while they're trapped in your circle of doom. Go too far to the left for example when they get hit and go a tad bit to the right. They might escape, and vice versa.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

That's interesting...is it really unescapable?

 

[~Firefly~]

Once i've been popped out of nado, all i've ever been able to do was Yoshi Bomb if the MK hadn't touch the ground at the end of the nado.

Speaking of yoshi bomb, i was messing around yesterday and was practicing B-Air > Footstool > Yoshi Bomb on a lot of characters at low mid to mid percents. Does yosh have a more powerful followup after the footstool other than Yoshi Bomb? Kinda sad we don't have a true job lock.

Have you tried fastfalling with a Nair? I think that might jab lock, though I'm not entirely sure about that. The there's the fact that you might not be able to get down there on time anyway...

 

[CourageHound]

Have you tried fastfalling with a Nair? I think that might jab lock, though I'm not entirely sure about that. The there's the fact that you might not be able to get down there on time anyway...

Yea I tried but yoshi jumps to high and is too floaty to make it down in time. Oh well.

I mighty try a few more times later to be sure.

 

[RaptorTEC]

SKTAR 2 - NJ
http://smashboards.com/threads/sktar-2-results.339612/
8/3/13
25th of 141
Delta

SKTAR 2 - NJ
http://smashboards.com/threads/sktar-2-results.339612/
8/3/13
49th of 141
Raptor

Lost to 3 Falcos and Esam this tournament lol. My set vs Keitaro (the bracket one not pool one) and Esam will be uploaded.

Smashacre Gluttony - Scotts Plain, NJ
http://smashboards.com/threads/smashacre-gluttony-results-all-results-up.339897/
8/10/13
9th of 30
Raptor

Smashacre Gluttony - Scotts Plain, NJ
http://smashboards.com/threads/smashacre-gluttony-results-all-results-up.339897/
8/10/13
5th of 30
Delta

 

[Sinister Slush]

Updated

Rescue 3
http://smashboards.com/threads/rescue-3-presented-by-smashtournament-com-paramus-nj-7-27.339223/
(07-27-13)
9th out of 26
Raptor

SKTAR 2
http://smashboards.com/threads/sktar-2-results.339612/
(08/03/13)
25th out of 141
Delta

SKTAR 2
http://smashboards.com/threads/sktar-2-results.339612/
(08/03/13)
49th out of 141
Raptor

Smashacre Gluttony
http://smashboards.com/threads/smashacre-gluttony-results-all-results-up.339897/
(08/10/13)
9th out of 30
Raptor

Smashacre Gluttony
http://smashboards.com/threads/smashacre-gluttony-results-all-results-up.339897/
(08/10/13)
5th out of 30
Delta

San Japan Sinister 6
http://smashboards.com/threads/san-japan-6-64-entrants.340097/
(08/17/13)
5th out of 64
Slush

In all honesty, why haven't we talked about the Snake match up? I feel like he could be more than a 1. As for my previous question it's a tad bit of sarcasm since the Snake panel didn't exist at all and we used up all of our spots for more important stuff, but after how the Snake mains are starting to play in this day of age I'd think it'd be a -2 for us.

 

[Nikes]

What makes you feel it's that bad Slush? I'm just curious that's all. (I know he can live forever and kill us early, but we can gimp him early just the same, and juggle him)

Also great work on the results guys

 

[Sinister Slush]

A good snake wouldn't get gimped by us since they'd be at the top of the level quite honestly everytime they were offstage, and his grenades/explosive camping is annoying.
Dash attack ***** us quite hard, and his way of racking up damage from 2 moves is of course superior to our own from juggling him for like... 35% for 4 or 5 moves when Snake can just use F-tilt for 21%/28+ (knee twice then last hit of F-tilt)

 

[Delta-cod]

Dtilt sets up excellently for gimps, and is a solid poke.

I'd be more willing to say Dash attack beats us bad if it weren't easy to beat dash attack if you're expecting it. So dash attack happy Snakes end up in trouble.

Grenades are annoying, but just that. They're not terribly effective against us.

Damage output is the worst part of the MU. But at least our damage output gives us good positional advantage while he just kinda knocks us away to camp again.

 

[Scatz]

Given how much easier it is to get damage on him once we're in, and how dash attack is mainly an annoying mechanic (wouldn't call it grame breaking when we have legit answers to it), I'd say it's a strong -1. His damage output and ability to nab the kill much easier than us is what kills the matchup often times. Without being able to SDI consistently out of his moves to reduce the total damage, we tend to eat more than we should. Grenades are quite the nuisance on select stages, so I can also see what you'd want it to be a -2.

I don't check anything else but here. What are the matchup numbers for us again?

 

[Delta-cod]

Uhhh. Going by the most recent release of the MU chart...


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

I have a few disagreements, but whatever.

 

[Nikes]

Looks just about the same as the tier list itself.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah, but tier lists don't decide match ups. Characters do.

Although that is an interesting observation I hadn't noticed before. Lemme see here...


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

SS: Meta Knight
S: Ice Climbers
A+: Olimar, Diddy Kong
A-: Marth, Snake, Falco
B: Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus, Wario
C+: Lucario, King Dedede, Toon Link
C: Wolf, Fox, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit
C-: R.O.B., Peach
D: Kirby, Donkey Kong, Sonic, Ike, Sheilda, Sheik, Ness, Yoshi
E: Luigi, Pokémon Trainer, Lucas
F: Mario, Samus, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Link, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf

According to both official lists, Yoshi beats everyone below him in the tier list, goes even with his own tier, and the match ups tend to go from -1 to -3 the higher up the list you go.

I do believe that we go even with/beat some of the high tiers, and go even with a lot more characters that are above us in general, but lolMUchartprocess

 

[Nikes]

I do believe that we go even with/beat some of the high tiers, and go even with a lot more characters that are above us in general, but lolMUchartprocess

100% agree with this, yet I can't put my finger on what's wrong with this chart. :s Oh well, it's just people's opinions, doesn't actually change anything in the game, besides maybe peoples mentality.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Olimar being a -2 and Wario being a -1 is still depressing

 

[Sinister Slush]

Olimar being a -2 I can deal with.
Wario mains (or at least the one with more brains and experience than the ones arguing outside of MAYBE Reflex) agreed with Even but we still lost and got -1 cause >Final Panel Opinions

 

[Scatz]

Looks fine to me. Though, I'm a washed up Yoshi player XD

 

[Lukingordex]

Your guys may think i'm dumb,but Luigi is even imo.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'd be more inclined to agree with that if Luigi could get in, stay in, and if him getting in didn't rely on hitting us with Cyclone, which knocks us away, lol.

I'm still sad about ICs being -1. But whatever.

 

[Nikes]

Weren't we even with IC's and Wario on the previous MU chart?
Regarding Luigi, I can't input my opinion due to there being no Luigis here.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yes we were.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The Yoshi:IC/Wario MU was definitely played quite enough to warrant a change.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Your guys may think i'm dumb,but Luigi is even imo.

I wrote this a while ago about why I think Luigi is +1 in our favor.

The main problem Luigi has in this mu is getting in and getting a kill move. Luigi literally can not approach Yoshi safely when the Yoshi is playing patient enough. I will admit though, that if he does find a way in at low percents, it can easily get Yoshi to 30-50% off of combos/strings/good reads. Good Luigis pull these crazy strings all the time. After that though, it usually becomes a reset after Luigi gets in which is already hard enough as it is. Fireballs don't do much in this mu since we can literally just jab them. They don't really force us to approach which, once again, is where the problem comes in with Luigi. He can't
approach us safely lol.

Just like Luigi, we can also rack up a significant amount of damage when we get the opponent in the air. Imo its more effective for Yoshi because, unlike Luigi in this mu, we can still effectively get some strings past low-mid percents and keep the momentum going. Luigi can't keep the damage going for too long (excluding low percents) due to our air speed. The more significant difference is when this is done off stage though. Yoshi completely destroys Luigi offstage. With practice, any Yoshi should be able to rack up a good amount of damage offstage against Luigi. Our mobility makes this a little easier to do so compared to most of the cast. I've heard LuigiSama say this many times. "No priority" when reffering to Luigi's side B. I've spiked him numerous times out of side b/spaced a bair/daired from the top/egged the side b leaving Luigi completely open to free damage after he picks from the few bad options he has left at that point/fall under to up air. There's so much we can do. When Luigi gets back to the ledge.... It's still bad lol. Our eggs make it really hard for him to get back on the stage safely. Most of the time, Luigis resort to jumping off the ledge and then cycloning towards Yoshi. This is also easily punishable by up smash or pivot grab. Or you could just shield the whole thing. I've come to notice this is a last ditch effort many Luigis do.

Both characters have about the same amount of trouble killing each other, but id say Yoshi has a slight advantage just because eggs will eventually put Luigi in a bad position once hit.

Also, if you look at records they point towards this being a favorable mu for Yoshi. Delta has beaten Luigisama (A good Luigi who has played this mu milllionssss of times) 2 out of 2 times and I'm pretty sure he's never lost to any other Luigis before. I have a winning record on Luigisama as well. I've also played YoshQ in numerous friendlies at Apex2013, which I took the majority of and also beat him in a mm at Apex2012. Same for Boss except it was a 2-0 with a 2 stock on game 1 and a timeout on the second game. He just couldn't find a way in. I'm also pretty sure Firefly has played and beaten Zhao before but I'm not 100% on that.
So yeah with that said, I think this is a +1 mu for Yoshi.

 

[Delta-cod]

The Wario MU was played enough to warrant a change in OUR favor, lol.

ICs MU was only played enough between Firefly and Big D, where we decided that Firefly was horrible at the MU.

 

[Sinister Slush]

My post had sarcasm in it, Delta. But yeah, Firefly only one to play the ICs MU, and the Wario one not happening in awhile at a high level.

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh. I'm just bad. Oopsies.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Dtilt sets up excellently for gimps, and is a solid poke.

I'd be more willing to say Dash attack beats us bad if it weren't easy to beat dash attack if you're expecting it. So dash attack happy Snakes end up in trouble.

Grenades are annoying, but just that. They're not terribly effective against us.

Damage output is the worst part of the MU. But at least our damage output gives us good positional advantage while he just kinda knocks us away to camp again.

Late but.... dtilt is good against snake? His main moves keeps us away, especially since our fat noses exist. And cause of his stage control with explosives and grenades, we either get smacked in the face for 3% or jump and avoid that damage and the detonator randomly going off possibly but only to eat a Dash attack depending where we land (and stage.
I don't see any other times they'd use Dash attack outside of using it for DACUS which would be for getting asway from us or to approach when we got hit by something.

Basically saying we're in the air for most of the match up and the easy to predict Dash attack to Pivot grab we can't even do more than half the time cause we're jumping around avoiding his tack damage from grenades which actually matter quite a bit in this MU since his U-tilt kills us around 100+% if bad DI or no DI, and dash attack grenades F-tilt etc. will tack on the rest of that 99%.

Also while our damage output puts him in bad situations, his damage output puts us either in the air or off the stage allowing him to set up with DownB/Smash and throwing grenades at us or anywhere on the stage to hopefully catch us in the air or simply tack on that extra 2-4%

I will agree strong -1, but if brawl somehow survives long enough for another horrible MU chart and Yoshi's play more Snake mains, I might argue for -2. Why? In SA/TX my own town had 5 or 6 different snake players so I've played that MU enough, while I've also played quite a few Marth mains in my time and probably Nike 300 or so times in the past 4 years almost.

I mention those two characters cause I've played those the most annoyingly enough in my time, so that's why I feel indifferent about Snake kinda and Marth too back before the MU chart v3 even started and when you thought it was even when you beat Neo I believe.

 

[Delta-cod]

Late but.... dtilt is good against snake? His main moves keeps us away, especially since our fat noses exist. And cause of his stage control with explosives and grenades, we either get smacked in the face for 3% or jump and avoid that damage and the detonator randomly going off possibly but only to eat a Dash attack depending where we land (and stage.
I don't see any other times they'd use Dash attack outside of using it for DACUS which would be for getting asway from us or to approach when we got hit by something.

Basically saying we're in the air for most of the match up and the easy to predict Dash attack to Pivot grab we can't even do more than half the time cause we're jumping around avoiding his tack damage from grenades which actually matter quite a bit in this MU since his U-tilt kills us around 100+% if bad DI or no DI, and dash attack grenades F-tilt etc. will tack on the rest of that 99%.

Also while our damage output puts him in bad situations, his damage output puts us either in the air or off the stage allowing him to set up with DownB/Smash and throwing grenades at us or anywhere on the stage to hopefully catch us in the air or simply tack on that extra 2-4%

I will agree strong -1, but if brawl somehow survives long enough for another horrible MU chart and Yoshi's play more Snake mains, I might argue for -2. Why? In SA/TX my own town had 5 or 6 different snake players so I've played that MU enough, while I've also played quite a few Marth mains in my time and probably Nike 300 or so times in the past 4 years almost.

I mention those two characters cause I've played those the most annoyingly enough in my time, so that's why I feel indifferent about Snake kinda and Marth too back before the MU chart v3 even started and when you thought it was even when you beat Neo I believe.

Dtilt isn't a move to use at neutral, but rather to catch him with once you get in. Say we manage to get in with a grab and release him offstage. 90% of the time, Snake will just recover high, so you follow his landing and catch it with dtilt, putting him in a terrible position offstage.

I dunno if this is just me, but I don't really have an issue with getting hit while dodging nades, unless I try to dodge aggressively and approach Snake while doing so.

I can understand what you're saying, since I've felt that this MU is booty too at times. But for every time I have a horrible time in the MU, I do things like go close with MVD/Ally and I wonder whether or not I was just playing wrong or if they're just not playing the MU optimally. I have too many widely different experiences with the MU to accurately say which is more valid, so I just go with what happens more often, which is me going close then not being able to kill.

I've always thought Marth was even, since I practice against Marth all the time. I can understand -1 though and I'm okay with it. I think the MU is hilarious in certain situations though, and my main practice partner cringes every time I tank an attack with DJ.