Yoshi's Island Melee Notes and Stage Discussion

[Jupz]

Recently I have been doing a lot of research on Yoshi's Island Melee (Pipes) and I'd like to share my notes and what I've come across on this stage. *I don't claim to have discovered any of this myself, if you already know all this stuff thats great, use this as a discussion thread for this stage*

Below are the general things I've come across and later I will go over character specific tricks and notes. Use this thread a discussion thread to discuss the tricks and notes below and your opinion on the stage's legality.

General Notes
​

-When you do a throw on the blocks that will cause them to spin, two different things can potentially happen:

-If you are in between two blocks, when the hitbox occurs that will break the blocks, you will instantly stop the throw, the block in front of you will start spinning and the person you grabbed will appear on the other side of the block. They will take the damage of the hitbox that broke the block plus any damage the throw had given them previously.

-If you are directly over a block a similar thing will happen except except you will go flying backwards through the air a set distance for every character (every characters is the same) and hit your head on the blocks behind you (if you were standing over the first block when you did the throw you will hit all 3 blocks behind you and they will start spinning, if you were on the middle block, only the closest two behind will start spinning, if you were on the end block only the closest block behind you will start spinning). The wierd thing is that while you are moving backwards through the air you are in the animation as though you have grab released the opponent. This is caused if you get interrupted during a grab. They will take the same amount of damage as from above and will appear on the close edge of the blocks. The block you are on will start spinning.

-When you land on a slope, you will get a slide down the slope in which you can input any commmand. The length of the slide is directly proportional to the characters momentum in the downwards direction of the slope and their natural slideability when they land. Since momentum is equal to mass*velocity, we can see that there are 4 factors affecting each characters ability to slide; their downwards momentum or fast-fall speed (second most important), their natural slideability (most important) mass or weight (third most important) and their horizontal momentum in the downwards direction of the slope, or air movement (least important). Therefore, fast-falling and holding down the slope when you land will get you the longest slide. The slide works no matter if you are facing up or downhill. Gliding into the slope will get a decent slide if cancelled. Landing lag will not affect the distance of the slide but you will not be able to do anything until the lag is complete. Shielding and spotdodging will stop the slide, as will any attacks that cause the character to move (eg. rolling, MK's Dtilt, Marths Fsmash). You will get a smaller slide if you jump uphill and land with upwards momentum. It can sometimes be hard for characters who can crawl as they may crawl as soon as they land and stop the slide.

This is a tier list for the length of the characters slides. All the characters in the same tier have effectively the same length slide.

A Tier







B Tier



:shiek:






C Tier













D Tier







E tier







This technique is situational and is not very useful, but it can be used occasionally.

-It is hard for most characters to grab someone above them on a slope unless they have a grab with an upward reaching hitbox. Dash grabs usually work fine. If you grab someone on a slope they will be ground released nearly straight away no matter their percentage.

-If the middle block isn't spinning but a side one is, when you grab that ledge you will let go immediately.

-If the two side blocks are spinning and you are on the middle one and you do an attack that will cause the the block below you to spin, as soon as the hitbpx comes out that breaks the block, the attack will cancel instantly and you will fall. You can input any command that you can do in the air straight away (you can also buffer it while doing the attack). If you don't input anything straight away you will grab the ledge you are facing, depending on your characters ledge sweetspot.

-Only 2 characters can air release someone when facing uphill (Snake and Yoshi). Olimar is the only person that will ground release someone facing downhill. However you will always ground release someone if you release them during the hitstun of the pummel (a pummel break).

-When air releasing someone under the block platforms, they will go up and either hit the block and come down at a closer angle, allowing you to hit them, or they will pass through the block and land on the top. It seems to be character specific what happens after they are air released.

-You cannot fall through the blocks from above or jump up from below. If you jump up from below you will hit a block, causing it to spin.

-Hitting the blocks stales moves.

-When you are sent close to the angle of the hill, the best option is to DI down and try to tech on the hill. This can save you from dying.

-When standing on the hill, any throw that would normally cause them to go lower then the angle of the hill will cause them to hit the ground instantly, except for DDD's Dthrow and Donkey Kong's Cargo Dthrow. This is because these throws create a "cushion" of air under the character being thrown.

-Any projectiles will not cause blocks to spin from the side, but all will if they come from underneath. They will ricochet off if thrown from the side. Link's are an exception to this.

Character Specific Tricks and Tips

​

Metaknight

-Metaknight can plank very effectively in the little hole in the middle, which doesn't let people come from the side, only from above. There is very few ways past this, except for a few characters which can completely eliminate the threat of planking. It basically takes planking and exaggerates it. Characters that are normally fairly effective at dealing with it can completely remove the threat of planking at this stage. For characters that have trouble against it, it becomes hell. Why does Metaknight always have to ruin it?

-Metaknight's Uthrow will cause blocks to flip and will go through them on the way up but will simply land on them on the way down.

-When Metaknight is air released under the blocks, he will hit them and come down at a much steeper angle allowing him to be punished easily by any character.

-His best kill methods are Shuttle loop off either side or Uair over the top.


Snake

-If Snake shield drops a grenade on a hill, it will roll down the hill unless picked up instantly.

-An alternative to this is pulling a grenade and pressing back on the C-stick to do a loopy throw. This will cause the grenade to get "stuck" on the hill and it will remain there.

-If snake throws a shield dropped grenade grenade forward or presses forward on the C-stick while holding a grenade normally to do a powerful throw at the slope from a close distance (on the bridge and closer) it will get "stuck" on the slope. The distance for shield dropped grenades is slightly more then powerfully thrown grenades. Normally thrown grenades will get "stuck" as well from a much closer distance.

-Snake can shield drop another grenade to cause any grenade that is "stuck" to begin rolling down the slope.

-Shield dropped grenades thrown from a distance (further then the bridge) to the slope will bounce straight up. The further they were thrown from, the less upright the grenades bounce becomes.

-Mines, C4s, grenades and mortars will cause the blocks they are on to spin when they explode.

-The initial hitbox of the mortar that forces an opponent upwards breaks the blocks below snake, cancelling the move.

-Grenades down thrown from one of the slopes will cause them to ricochet off and get "stuck" on the second hill.

-Depending on where snake starts the mortar hitbox, while Boost Smashing, he will slide over a block and stop the boost and mortar and land on the other side, or stop before a block and stop the mortar, or keep going while leaving a block behind him spinning, or he will stop and start charging the mortar and a block ahead of him will start spinning, or he will go straight throw leaving no blocks spinning. This depends on where the mortar hitbox that breaks the blocks starts.

-When snake is on the far left edge of the pipe, if he throws a shield dropped grenade forward or throws one forward using the C-stick it will become stuck on the other side of the pipe near the top. If he presses B twice or does a loopy throw up, it will become stuck on the close side.

-Utilt kills really early here. Grenades can also kill fairly well here in a campy match, or up on the right slope.

-Snake can deal with Metaknight's planking here very effectively by throwing grenades into the hole, dropping C4's in, and mortaring on the edge. His Dtilt also works very well as a surprise to kill Metaknight.

Wario

-Wario can Gatling combo if he dash attacks into the blocks because his dash attack breaks the blocks. He is the only one who can do this.

-Uair kills rediculously early here. Waft kills great off the sides. Fsmash is an alright killer but sometimes when you are on the slope you will hit them into the slope slowing their momentum.

Falco

-Falco's Dthrow does not break the blocks.

-Falco can IAP up the slopes but not down them.

-Because the initial hitbox of Falco's Usmash, he cannot Boost Smash over the blocks if it will cause him to finish on the blocks. He will sometimes hit the block in front of him, cause it to spin, and cancel the attack and fall, or if he is in between two blocks he will hit the block in front of him and cause it to spin and start charging a Usmash.

-If Falco attempts to IAP up a slope he will suffer the same landing lag as a grounded phantasm.

-Phantasm cancelling before you land on a slope will cause you to land normally as long as the phantasm has finished.

-If Falco phantasms into a block, the block will start spinning, and he will immediately cancel the phantasm and all momentum will be lost.

-Falco's phantasm will follow the direction of the slope.

-USmash is his most effective killer here, or Bair off the left side.

Diddy Kong

-Diddy cannot dribble conventionally uphill, though he can dribble uphill by Fthrowing bananas.

-Diddy can dribble downhill.

-Diddy cannot single naner lock someone up a slope because of the slide he gets when falling. (AFAIK)

-Diddy can dribble facing forward downhill on the right slope only.

-It can be quite hard for diddy to kill here compared to other characers. Utilt, Fair and Uair work. Dsmash or Fsmash on either slope work really well too.

King Dedede

-Dedede's Ftilt will reach through the top of the pipe.

-When he UpB's into blocks, it will stop, he will gain some upwards momentum then fall, helpless.

-He cannot CG anyone downhill.

-He cannot infinite anyone on a slope, nor small step CG them.

-His Fsmash will go all the way to the ground on the hill so can stop people from approaching from downhill as it is hard to punish from that angle.

-His Utilt kills really early here, he can kill by walk off, or Bair off either edge. Dsmash also works.

-If Dedede holds down while sliding down a slope it becomes an epic taunt.

-Dedede can only CG the following people uphill:









Marth

-His most effective kill methods here are tippered Uair and Bair (at either edge)

Mr G&W

-Kills really early here with Usmash/Dsmash and Fsmash off the sides.

-His Dthrow does not break the blocks.

-When he short hops up a slope when he is already standing on it and holds up the slope he will remain airbourne for a tiny bit then hit the ground. He can do any aerial but it won't finish while he is briefly airbourne. This can be used to turn around instantly out of a dash, or jab/tilt/walk/smash instantly out of a dash.

Pikachu

-Pikachu can QAC by going slideways into the slope. If he doesn't jump immediately after QACing he will float down a tiny bit and be able to do any aerial without jumping. These things allow him to QAC faster as he doesn't have to go down as far because of the slope.

-Pikachu can deal with planking very effectively as well with thunder jolts and jumping over and thundering.

-Usmash and thunder kill great over the top. The second hitbox of thunder kills great off the left side.

Olimar

-Usmash is great for killing here.

-His grabs unlike most characters will go up the slope and will have the same range as on the ground.

-Olimars UpB will go at a near perfect angle with the slope, allowing you to attack someone above you with great range.

Ice Climbers

-Ice Climbers can chaingrab fine downhill but can't uphill. (AFAIK)

-Their Fthrow will break the blocks below them, stopping the infinite. Their Dthrow and Bthrow will not.

-Most effective method of killing is infinite->Usmash.

R.O.B

-Rob kills best with Bair and Usmash.

Kirby

-Kirby's Uthrow will cause blocks to flip and will go through them on the way up but will simply land on them on the way down.

-Kirby's best kill method is Usmash.

Lucario

-Lucario's best method of killing is probably Uair or Usmash, or Fsmash off the sides.

Zero Suit Samus

-When ZSS Down B's into the slope it will hit the slope nearly instantly and she can attack instantly. This can be used to reposition her slightly, as mindgames and as an epic taunt if you hold down and mash B. It also allows her to cancel her run into anything.

-Kills best with Uair.

Toon Link

-Toon Links boomerang will ricochet up when thrown at a slope.

-Kills best with Uair and Usmash.

-Dsmash will kill in 1 hit on the pipe.

Pit

-It is hard to arrow loop arrows here because they will hit the slopes.

-Kills best with Fsmash off the sides, or Dsmash.

Donkey Kong

-DK's Down B will travel the normal distance across either side on the slope, making it very useful on the slope.

-His Cargo Dthrow into the slope they will glide along the slope and won't hit the ground but ride along a "cushion" of air, similar to Dedede's Dthrow.

-Kills best with Usmash and Uair.

Peach

-When she floats into a slope she will cancel on the slope no matter if she was in the middle of an aerial or not.

-This allows her to cancel a run into anything similar to ZSS if she runs->jump and down it will stop instantly.

-Kills best with USmash.

Luigi

-Kills best with Usmash.

-Slides slower then most characters, but has the longest slide.

Fox

-Combos quite well on the slopes with his slide he can position himself effectively.

-Usmash is a great killer and kills at rediculously low percents on the slope.

-His side B works the same as Falco's here.

Wolf

-Kills best with Dsmash and Usmash.

Sonic

-Kills best with Uair.

Shiek :shiek:

-Usmash is her best killer.

Bowser

-Bowsers angled fire will go all the way to the ground, stopping people from approaching from downhill. It will also angle itself uphill.

-Kills best with Utilt, Usmash and Uair.

Zelda

-Kills best with Uair and Usmash/Utilt.

Pokemon Trainer

-Squirtle kills best with Usmash.

-Ivysaur kills best with Uair and Usmash

-Charizard kills best with Usmash.

-Charizards fire functions the same as Bowsers.

-Squirtle cannot Side B up a slope.

-When Squirtle runs and short hops up a hill a similar thing will happen as to G&W, although he will be in the air for a little longer. Doing a Fair or Bair increases the momentum gained when you land.

-Ivysaur's UpB goes at a perfect angle with the slope allowing him to attack someone above him with great range.


Ike

-Kills best with Utilt and Uair.

-Ike's Side B will go up and down slopes fine.

Lucas

-He kills best with Usmash.

Mario

-Kills best with Usmash

Ness

-Ness kills best with UpB.

Yoshi

-Kills best with Usmash and Uair.

-When he immediately double jumps up the slope he will receive a slide going up the slope.

Samus

-Kills best with Dtilt.

-Samus' Down B bombs will roll down the slope.

Jigglypuff

-Kills best with Usmash.

-Jigglypuff's short hop on a hill will do the same thing as G&W's except she will be in the air for a little shorter.

Captain Falcon

-Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost work fine up and down slopes.

-Kills best with the Knee or Fsmash.

Link

-Link can't break blocks with any non B moves except Dair. All his projectiles will break blocks from the side, which is unique.

-Kills best with Usmash/Dsmash or Utilt.

Ganondorf

-Kills best with Usmash.

-Warlock kick and his Side B work fine up and down slopes.

Conclusion​

As we can see, there are many tricks on Yoshi's Island Melee, its like the stage has its own little Metagame. It is a very unique stage because of all the random tricks involved with the slopes and the blocks, and the struggle to not hit the blocks with moves you don't want to stale. To avoid walk-offs from Dedede, camp the left side, he can't chaingrab down slopes or Dthrow while on a block. The only issue is Metaknight's planking, but hopefully the ledge grab rule takes care of that to an extent. Certain characters, for example Snake and Pikachu, can deal with it very effectively. I know any of the tricks here aren't game breaking and that they are situational, but they can be useful.

Discuss the stage, any tricks and its legality here

Thanks to Amazing Ampharos, sasukebowser,and UltiMario for some of the info

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'd like to throw out that this is an extremely good Toon Link stage; you missed a few of his great tricks here. He can dair into blocks and bounce off them, effectively letting him safely throw out his dair. Toon Link can also dair into either steep slope on this stage and slide down it, giving him a pretty effective non-conventional mobility strategy.

You are subtly mistaken about the jump break mechanics though generally correct. Specifically, you miss three special cases. Unless his grab is broken extremely early while Yoshi pummels at the first moment, Yoshi always forced a jump break, including up the steep slope. Snake always forced a jump break unless he's pummeling. Olimar always forces a ground break unless he's holding them over an edge. Other than these three, you are right about grab break slope behavior (though do note that pummeling always forces opponents to ground break if they break during the "hitstun" from the pummel except with Yoshi's grab, but Yoshi has special rules).

You might want to note which characters King Dedede can chaingrab up the right slope. Those are the following:

Donkey Kong, Wario, Link, Ganondorf, Wolf, Lucario

He can't chaingrab anyone else up the slope.

Likewise, it's worth noting that Yoshi can indeed force jump breaks up the slope but can't chaingrab anyone up it except Wario who is kinda special as anyone familiar with that chaingrab knows.

There's a trick here with tethers other than Toon Link's with the blocks, but I haven't explored it. I believe you can get "stuck" under the blocks when they become solid before you pull yourself to the ledge.

The grab break animation on the blocks is caused by the grab being interrupted before it finishes. This is a general mechanic that doesn't come up very often, but you do see it on Pokemon Stadium 2's electric form fairly often as I recall.

I don't think this is a good G&W stage (not bad either), but it should really be legal. It's just obnoxious; it's not really unfair at all.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks for all the info Ampharos

Yeah, I didn't comment on each characters performance on the stage due to inexperience.


Thanks for the DDD CG list, the TL tricks and the jump break info, I'll edit that in


Do you have any comments about Metaknights ability to plank in the centre?

 

[Ochobobo]

If Zelda somehow falls through the spinning blocks in the center, she can teleport diagonally to the ledge opposite her to recover. Most would try to teleport straight up, but that won't work for some reason. This recovery seems kind of safer than most other characters' for that area.

Also, the slopes can lead into easy sweetspotted Lightning Kicks, or an easy usmash. The blocks will let you usmash characters all you like into them, comboing into other attacks.

The only bad part of the stage for her is behind that pipe sticking up to the left, just because she sucks at approaching from above. Just Din's someone stalling there, unless it's Ness/Lucas/GW. Then use your best judgement. lol

I'm kind of wondering why it isn't legal myself.

 

[Commander_Beef]

This is a very nice job and what you've done here with the stage Jupz .
I hope to see this stage more in the counterpick category. It seems it doesn't get enough attention but I hope all this information doesn't keep it banned or encourage it even more to stay banned .

 

[Jupz]

Thanks Beef

I think this stage is a counterpick on the official SBR list but not many people allow it in tourney.
I doubt it would encourage it more to stay banned. I love it because its so unique, theres so many specific tricks.

Anyone have any comments about MK's planking?

Thanks for the info Ochobobo.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Hahaha, this stage is beyond amazing for Olimar. easily our best stage if it's legal. We actually had it legal for once at a tournament last weekend and I pretty much just... never lost on my CP haha.

First of all, this stage eliminates Olimar's biggest weakness. Gimps. Olimar is able to run all over the stage without the fear trapping himself at a ledge, because Olimar actually works amazing at the edges of this stage as well.

Alright, as was said earlier in the OP, Olimar's grabs travel up and down the slopes which is amazing. Not only his grabs though, but pikmin toss as well. Camping the right area puts Olimar in danger if the opponent can get through his wall of grabs/spam, however if Olimar manages to get a grab (especially with a blue pikmin) the opponent will lose a stock. I'm pretty sure blue pikmin will kill on the right slop somewhere around 50. A smart Olimar is extremely hard to deal with on this part of the stage. Not to mention the strategy of "getting him off the stage early for a gimp" doesn't exist on this stage.

If the opponent gets usmashed by Olimar under the yellow blocks they get knocked straight back down for another usmash/dsmash unless they tech it. And as stated before, Olimar's usmash kills at unreasonable percents. This doesn't work with yellow pikmin, as the pikmin hits the block before the opponent can hit it, but anything else works.

 

[SuSa]

Hilt, that's a slide from FF'ing on a slope... not how well a character does on the stage.

Just FYI.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, that was a "tier list" for how long the slide was on the slope, not how well they did on the stage

But interesting info about Olimar

So far the best characters seem to be Snake, Dedede, Pikachu, Olimar and Toon Link.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Hahaha don't know how I missed that one ^^;

My mistake, Jupz. Makes a lot more sense now xD

Interesting thread by the way.

 

[Jupz]

No problem, its easy to make that mistake

Thanks

 

[Sosuke]

Toon Link's Dsmash kills in 1 hit on the left pipes.

 

[Ochobobo]

What will it take for this stage to be legal? lol

 

[UltiMario]

I'd like to make a small mention for a trick with Yoshi. You can do a quick Jump -> DJ while moving up a slop to do a wavedash of sorts. A Nice trick considering how much of the stage IS slopes.

Spoiler

Only saying this because I was the initial discoverer of this waaaaaaaaay back when Brawl first came out /bias

 

[DtJ Hilt]

What will it take for this stage to be legal? lol

You have to move to the Midwest >.>

 

[bobson]

What will it take for this stage to be legal? lol

A widespread outbreak of intelligence.
Don't hold your breath.

Alternatively, an expertly-pitched propaganda campaign about how this is Metaknight's worst stage.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

^^^Yup.

This is MK's 3rd worst stage, the latter being Shadow Moses and Bridge of Eldin, neither of which are legal.

So why is stage banned again?

 

[Delta-cod]

Is it true that Yoshi can't CG anyone up the slope? He can do it on DP, but I'm not sure if the slopes have different angles between the two stages.

Also regarding Yoshi's CG, he can fthrow CG some characters up the slope at certain percents, but again this is using Distant Planet's slope as a base. I've never done anything on this stage, or play on it, really.

 

[Kinzer]

What will it take for this stage to be legal? lol

Host your own tourney or convince your local TOs that this stage makes for a fine competitive stage.

It helps to mention that it's MK's worst stage.

Alternatively, an expertly-pitched propaganda campaign about how this is Metaknight's worst stage.

This.

So why is stage banned again?

It's very unpopular and was actually banned unreasonably.

However in the spirit of unbias/subjectivity, I could some problems like some characters perhaps getting too powerful on this stage... though I'm not sure which characters it would be, they are probably out there... then you might have to deal with some characters getting invalidated on this stage... just because this is MK's worst stage and you have high hopes of winning that match, do you think the MK is going to not ban/CP (on) this stage... I know some players who aren't so loyal to characters as they are to... playing to win, which means increasing their chances of victory... and MK won't let them do that there, Starfox!.

However the last part is just part of the system of CPing, it's only natural some characters will have better advantages here and others have their weaknesses much more easier to exploit... how far/good the characters with buffs gets determines whether or not a stage should be banned due to overcentralization...

 

[1048576]

I'd say it was banned for the walkoffs, but I think that's primarily a melee characteristic that automatically and wrongfully got transferred to Brawl.

 

[Ochobobo]

But what exactly makes it Meta Knight's worst stage? We should go into detail here if we're going to make a good case for it.

 

[Kinzer]

Meta Knight cannot use his amazing recovery/gimping skills on this stage because there is hardly any offstage to this game.

What else is there that is major... Eh well I can't think of anything but those, and that should be enough to tell you that MK doesn't do as hot as he usually does on... well... just about every other stage that's legal/should be legal. (and I guess some banned stages too that do deserve it.)

 

[SuSa]

OMFG. Me and my friend were playing on this, Onett, and Green Greens.

We had so many epic battles.

PS:
I beat his DDD with my Wolf on Onett. Then with my Lucario on Green Greens. I only got infinited twice (both times as Lucario, I forgot to break the blocks >.<) but it didn't sway the match that much.

I tried camping on Green Greens and YIM. Didn't work out to well. <_<

I love these stages. <3

 

[Jupz]

I don't think that list on the OP is accurate.
Snake and Toon Link should be higher.

That isn't a tier list, its a list of how long the slide you get down the slope is. Someone's already made this mistake, read through the OP properly or the first page next time please

Is it true that Yoshi can't CG anyone up the slope? He can do it on DP, but I'm not sure if the slopes have different angles between the two stages.

Also regarding Yoshi's CG, he can fthrow CG some characters up the slope at certain percents, but again this is using Distant Planet's slope as a base. I've never done anything on this stage, or play on it, really.

Probably because on DP his toungue goes up the slope, not through it and so can reach further upwards.

Meta Knight cannot use his amazing recovery/gimping skills on this stage because there is hardly any offstage to this game.

What else is there that is major... Eh well I can't think of anything but those, and that should be enough to tell you that MK doesn't do as hot as he usually does on... well... just about every other stage that's legal/should be legal. (and I guess some banned stages too that do deserve it.)

He normally kills off the sides not off the top (except with Uair), and other characters can abuse the low ceiling here. Add this to your reasons = not good stage for MK.

What about him planking in the middle hole? If he does this it could make it a better stage for him, hopefully the edge grab rule limits this.

OMFG. Me and my friend were playing on this, Onett, and Green Greens.

We had so many epic battles.

PS:
I beat his DDD with my Wolf on Onett. Then with my Lucario on Green Greens. I only got infinited twice (both times as Lucario, I forgot to break the blocks >.<) but it didn't sway the match that much.

I tried camping on Green Greens and YIM. Didn't work out to well. <_<

I love these stages. <3

Yeah, I don't really like Onett but Green Greens and YI Melee are my two favourite stages Maybe I should try out Onett.


Thanks to everyone who gave info, I'll add it in and give you credit in the front post.

 

[SuSa]

Some characters have moves that break the blocks and cause you to fall or go into another move. This is actually pretty useful to abuse as some characters (Peach, Downsmash) and Snake's C4 on a block, when hit, will fall. (can switch placement)

I like this stage.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah I think I mentioned that in the OP, you can cancel it into any move. Like MK can Dsmash, get the first hitbox (or second if the block in front of him is already spinning) then cancel with no lag instantly into a Uair or UpB. Interesting about snake though

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I'd say it was banned for the walkoffs, but I think that's primarily a melee characteristic that automatically and wrongfully got transferred to Brawl.

In Melee, it was banned because matches there became incredibly one sided in combination with the Walk offs. Melee Fox was too good there.

Not only can he waveshine nearly half of the roster for easy KOs on the right side, his usmash and uair KO foes earlier than Snake's utilt does here. They can take out most characters at 50%.

Not to mention Fox in Melee could laser camp there like crazy then decide whether or not to backthrow.

Since Fox cannot waveshine and His laser camping capabilities and KO moves got nerfed, I think this stage should be given another chance.

Not to mention D3 can't CG as much as people thought he could.

The only argument against it would probably be related to Pikachu's CG(Falco can't do it on the slopes for long).

 

[Jupz]

If you camp the left side against Pika, even if he grabs you you should be able to get out by the time he gets up there.

What about MK's planking, how much do you think that will influence the stage as a counterpick?

 

[Alfa]

Hey, good thread Jupz. Anyway, here is a brief thread I posted ages ago on the tether trick that can be done under the blocks in the middle of the stage.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214404
Basically, if you are not gay toon link, and if you are hanging from the legde in the middle of the stage with the blocks above with a tether, then when the blocks stop spinning and you get pulled up from your tether, you will hang underneath the block, as opposed to hanging on the ledge, you can still attack and roll from the ledge as normal, you just teleport there, but if you attempt to ledge jump, then the block above you starts spinning as you fall off the ledge.

I think that this is what AA briefly mentioned before.

 

[Jupz]

Aah ok, thanks Alfa

 

[MJG]

Woow good stuff...i didnt know all of that stuff about wario on this stage XD.

I didnt look at all of this since i have to go but being on the left side plays out to your advantage.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks

The left side can also be dangerous as some characters can kill you at very low percents off there.

How do you think Wario fares here?

Anyone, feel free to post comments of how well you think your character does on the stage

 

[Kinzer]

How do you think Wario fairs here?

I didn't even know Wario use Fair for anything but spacing.

 

[Jupz]

Haha omg, I had a feeling there was something wrong with it when I read it

 

[Raziek]

Adding my input on Marth. It's not just Uair and Bair that kill really well here, (Though that is very true) You can effectively use Short-hopped aerials to tech-chase on either slope. I do this on pipes and Distant Planet all the time with Nair and Fair.

Vid for emphasis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-0zYJ5V9lg (Do note: My opponent was not that skilled, but the point remains.)

An opponent on the slope is reduced to very few options:

1: Roll Towards ( This is the most expected option, as people will usually want to get as far away from the blast zone as possible.)
2: Stand up ( Probably one of the smarter options, can only really be punished if you space correctly)
3: Get-up Attack ( Shouldn't hit you if you're spacing correctly)
4: Roll Backwards (Most people won't do this, because it puts them closer to the blast zone, but it is a viable option on the bottom parts of the slopes.)

Just my 2 cents, great read.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks for the contribution raziek


Anyone got anything to say about their character, or MK's planking? Has anyone actually planked here/been planked against?

 

[Tesh]

My impressions of the stage.

Isn't anyone worried about jablocks from a simple upthrow like on Luigi's mansion? Sure you can destroy the blocks, but they come back very often. Its pretty simple to just toss someone into the blocks and if they don't tech, jab lock up the slope for the kill.

I have some things for Sonic that you didn't list.
-Spindash jump up either slope with cause sonic to slide up the slope while in a standing animation allowing for sliding smashes and tilts.
-Instant Spindash jump up either slope will cause about the same thing except with a hitbox until you land going up the slope.
-If you Spindash into the blocks over the pit, sonic can shield cancel and grab someone on the other side (hitting with the spindash or the grab sets up for jab locking even at 0 percent)
-When an opponent is above you on a slope, uptilt has more range than ftilt in front of you.
-Using Down throw on any of the blocks drops your opponent under the blocks and does 4% damage.
-Hitting with spindash can launch people into the slope allowing you to follow up with a smash attack or grab.

If you space Ganondorf's SHDair thunderstorm so that Ganon doesn't hit the blocks on his way up, only your opponent will hit into the blocks, allowing you to chain dair into kill percents if all 3 blocks are present.
Example from 0% dair-dair-hits block-dair-hits block-dair-hits block-Fsmash
-You can also do a "slam dunk" ganoncide on the blocks if people aren't expecting it.

As far as Metaknight goes, I don't quite get how this is a bad stage for him. He can adapt very well, so while the lack of offstage fighting may help poor recoveries, the stage seems to give him many of the extra options it gives lots of other characters.

What so bad about his planking on this stage? There is no lip/risk of stagespike from shuttle loop. He has no spike and the best he can do is just pop you back towards the main stage. Yes he is still winning the exchange, but he doesn't have the option of flying to the other ledge like he would on final destination, battlefield or smashville. He doesn't even have the option of flying farther away from the stage where some characters can't get to him. Its a pretty tight space and that limits his options for evasion since he isn't 100% invincible.

-Can still jab lock set up with tornado under the blocks like on luigi's mansion as long as you don't let the tornado rise and hit the blocks before it bounces your opponent back down.
-Dair still works great on this stage. At 0% he can chain rising Dairs into a slope and if the first one hits you are set up for the next one until he lands with you next to the blast zone with dsmash, its very easy
-If you get caught on the blocks above metaknight, Uair will break the blocks and the next uair will hit you and due to the low ceiling a short Uair chain-tornado can kill if you don't SDI out.
-Most of his ground moves can hit from on the other side of the green pipes, including fsmash, dsmash, ftilt and jab.
-Dthrow leads to (what seems to be) a guaranteed shuttle loop because you are released directly into the slope. At lower percents, you get hit by the strong hit, at mid percents(high for this stage) you hit jab locked by the weaker hit for Shuttle loop which probably guarantees the glide attack.

Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this.

This doesn't seem to be a bad stage for metaknight, the loss of gimps on this small stage are replaced by low percents kills due to the walkoff and small blastzones otherwise. Although it might give snake a clear edge over metaknight on this stage if he can avoid. For some characters it might make the matchup by adding more options to everyone in general.

tl;dr It seems to be really important to tech on this stage. Being hard to hit and combo would be more of an asset than being heavy on this stage due to the walkoff slope allowing ground locks and combos to kill with ease.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, you can tech throws that throw you directly into the slope. Also, you say the boundaries help him, what you forgot is that they can potentially help the opponent more. The low ceiling favors some characters more then MK (snake, DDD).

Thanks on your thoughts about the planking, but remember he is not trying to "spike" the opponent but merely keep his lead. If he keeps on "tipping them away" then he will eventually win when time runs out.

Thanks for the info on sonic and ganon

 

[Jikko]

nice thread, if only this stage was legal though.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I can conclude that this stage is broken by all the discussion and the original post altogether lol.