Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread

[AlanHaTe]

ow the only things I know about yoshi is that PSing the eggs is very easy, and Usmash OoS when he Bairs actally works o_o

other thing is that if you footstool him offstage he's dead... the bad news: if the yoshi is smart this won't happen too often but still it's a good mix-up/thing to know.

Also Dtilt trip > Bair would be like the best thing you could do, but the spacing for that is too strict so it may not work if you're too close or too far.

can't give a ratio for this one, but well

 

[MrEh]

You should ask DM about Zelda vs Yoshi. He played that matchup to death.

I personally think this matchup is 40-60 though. Just because Yoshi outcamps Zelda and pivot grabs eat up everything she does.

 

[GodAtHand]

I was just gonna let you guys do this entire thread yourself. But having played GreenAce, and seeing the way this matchup is going in your opinions, I thought I would throw out that I believe this matchup is 50:50 eggs and dins are equal in the particular matchup and although Yoshi is heavier Zelda's kill power keeps it even.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I somewhat agree but eggs are just so obnoxious! Poltergust is so good!!! I wanna say even but it's so hard to get a hold of him. He's so evil!! Damn blood god.......Our Ftilt beats his aerials but they are much harder to time up since he has such fast aerial mobility. His DJ cancel -> egg lay is so good!!! His shield, isn't as bad as everyone says because he cannot be shield poked (except by us lol) and he'll roll away if we hit said shield so he can get away alright. We have to be landing Dtlit to Bair to hopefully get some early kills because he'll live a while otherwise.

Good thing he's often a teammate of mine.

 

[Fluttershy]

Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are now up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Oh god, there's so much to think about in a matchup with 2 people who can tranform at will, one of whom has 3 forms and MUST change.

Well both of us have pretty subpar recoveries too so we actually have a bit in common.

"Good" pokemon trainers are so excedingly rare that I can't really say as I have much familiarity with the matcchup at all, but I will say that the experiance that I do have has led me to feel that it's, again, pretty even.

I mean squirtle and ivy can zone us pretty well, but they die SO HARD SO FAST from zelda's attacks and, I know it's not easy to land, but I believe ivy takes bonus knockback from din's AND uair... and uair already kills early. pretty sure ivy even dies on high ceiling stages at, like, 60% damage from that puppy.

as for charlie, I mean, he's a much bigger target, which is nice, and he's slower, but he IS harder to kill and he DOES hit harder. plus he still has really good range. . . but he's so easy to hit with lightning kicks.

Iunno. if there's something obvious I'm missing I could be wrong, but it feels like it's somewhere between 50:50 and 60:40 Zelda's advantage but I have no idea what the actual numbers should be.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i havent fought a good pokemon trainer ever so i have no comment

 

[GodAtHand]

Charizard and Ivysaur I feel are in Zelda's favor. Squirtle on the other hand I feel is slightly in Squirtle's favor. Overall I would probably give this matchup a 40-60 Zelda. Only because Charizard and Ivysaur are just not good against Zelda. Charizard is like a worse Bowser, and Ivysaur is just Ivysaur.

 

[AlanHaTe]

i havent fought a good pokemon trainer ever so i have no comment

same here

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I NEVER gave zelda an advantage over lucas BTW, don't know why the OP says that.

I said he either is 50:50 or HE has a 55:45 advantage depending on the stage.

 

[Fluttershy]

The Super Powered Boy: Ness is now up

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

The Super Powered Boy: Ness is now up

in general, I find ness slightly easier to fight against than lucas with either Zelda OR sheik. Really feels 50:50 to me.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Well for me that's like a weird MU, I have more trouble with Lucas, but here there not that much trouble but still that doesn't mean it's easy...

First of all... sucks that he shuts down din's, I know it's not the best proyectile but it better to have than not having it ._.

If you get hit by Fair try ti SDI out of it, if you can SDI behind him hope to land a Bair sweetspot and kill him, or just shield it and try an Usmash OoS... Be careful though after his SF Fair he still has time to DJ Nair and that sucks, because he can shield poke or hit you =_=
His second jump is weird and hard to hit(at least for me)...

if you can put him in a position where he needs to use UpB abuse it and kill him!!! but be careful because if you screw it up and take to long he will successfullly get back to stage and kill you in the process ._.

I think that's like the only things I could write here, not that great stuff but it's something ._.

I'd say 60:40 Ness

 

[JigglyZelda003]

didnt someone post a long time ago you could jab Ness Fair, even if its spaced? just asking.

last time i played this matchup was lol lagfi 2 years ago, so i got nothing.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

lagfi

ah lagfi . . . the secret technique that let's Zelda ascend the tier-list.

 

[Fluttershy]

Sheik is up now

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ok, time to catch myself up on this again èn masse!

Pkmn trainer is a pain in the *** due in large part to our light weight. Yes, Ivy and Zard aren't to good but they hit hard. Squirtle is just obnoxious! You gotta keep the hitboxes out there. On the bright side, Squirtle doesn't have any extended tilt strings on us so it helps.

+1 for us because we can beat the other two pretty well.

Ness is -1 because he has strong options. If we get hit by PK fire, mash Nayru's and we are safe. Of course all his aerials are great but Ftilt can beat them all out (if timed). The ability to kill with a throw is HUGE! Dunno if we have any GR shenanigans so that may sway me but I'll say -1 for now.

Sheik is -1 at best! Her mobility makes things awful difficult for us. Her moveset strings very easy for quick damage and juggling is one of her best attributes. We may live long but it's incredibly tough. On a plus, she is a fast faller so DIing our moves is difficult and she locks pretty well so that's our one biggest plus.

-2 doesn't seem right to me because I have loads of exp in the MU and usually win much more than I lose. Our few pluses are nice pluses. -1 for my fav ninja princess.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

If we get hit by PK fire, mash Nayru's and we are safe.

wouldnt it be better to just DI out most of the time rather than mash Nayrus?

I do remember that i as Ness would purposefully try to land PKFires on Ocho's Zelda so i could hit him w/ a Dair when he tried to Nayrus out.

On Sheik i pretty much agree w/ Ed.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

wouldnt it be better to just DI out most of the time rather than mash Nayrus?

I do remember that i as Ness would purposefully try to land PKFires on Ocho's Zelda so i could hit him w/ a Dair when he tried to Nayrus out.

On Sheik i pretty much agree w/ Ed.

Most Ness players will go for the obvious grab. If they don't, adjust for the next time. That's when all the mindgames start lol. I agree with ya man. My old partner Hulk and Shaky usually went grab as read 1 and change it up after one Nayru's.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I have very little experience playing just Zelda vs. Just sheik . . . I normally play as Zelda/Sheik vs sheik and my experience there is +1 Zelda/Sheik . . . but yeah.... no opinion on just zelda vs just sheik.

maybe 55:45?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

55:45 Ness
55:45 Sheik

imo

 

[Fluttershy]

Ike is now up
also i'm looking forward to what you all have to say about him. one of my friends use him and so far has the only win against me

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ike hits us too hard, outranges us too easily, is 10x better in the air and is too heavy for us to kill easily.

He's, sadly, like snake-lite for us even though he's ike.

Luckily he's fairly slow and has no projectiles so we have an easier time damaging him than vice versa, but we really can't go toe to toe with him without coming out behind.

If you switch to sheik this match is not bad at all, but if you don't, I'd say that, even though we can out camp him and out damage him, this match is still easily 55:45 Ike's advantage.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I think its about 60:40 Ike.

sure he's kinda on the slower side, but so is Zelda and then he has that damn jab......

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ike is difficult but not bad at all. I would place him only at a -1 (55-45) disadvantage personally. The biggest fear honestly is messing up recovery with an onstage Ike.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ike is difficult but not bad at all. I would place him only at a -1 (55-45) disadvantage personally. The biggest fear honestly is messing up recovery with an onstage Ike.

yeah. you'd better learn finesse with that Farore's, teleporting into ike's Fsmash is worse than teleporting into lucas' Usmash

 

[Fluttershy]

Sonic the Hedgehog is now up

 

[JigglyZelda003]

fffff Sonic and his running speed. :L

Sonics fast, but if we get him into our hitboxs first we can come out the winner...... i think its about 60:40 Sonic though. if he gets that few percent lead he can run away and wait till we come to him only to hit and run again.

damn Zelda for running so slow and akward.

 

[AlanHaTe]

well for Ike, as it's been already said, you better not mess up with recovering...

Ike's jab can link to a Bair so be careful when trying to SDI out of it because we can die erarlier from that. I don't remember where I SDI the jab to at least shield or dodge the last hit, but it's not easy, I remember I watched Jujux SDI and Fair lol

Also against Ike, If he Aethers too high you can always go there, PS the hit when he goes down and then Dsmash, that would kill him way early. Or if he isn't that high just time Din's Fire to hit him when his Super Armor frames end and you will at least get some nice free damage always useful.

watch out for platforms, they are more useful for Ike than for Zelda so be careful... I think it's something like "the one who's under the platform has advantage on the situation". His Uair is way good for poking shields form under platforms and will kill early...

I'd try and save Dsmash for early kills.

+1 or +2(?) Ike/60 - 40 or 55 - 45 Ike


Sonic... well, if you dare using Din's fire better explode it where sonic WILL be, if we mess up with that just a bit sonic will be right in our face and get a free [insert move here]

Nair can be way useful here, I think it beats many things, but I'm not really sure if it is because I predict and start doing it earlier o what happens xD

normally sonic can make his way in with side/down B(not sure which one is or the diff lol) but if we shield it we can get Nair, Bair, Uair, Usmash(?) some things like that because he jumps and just try to see where to jump and attack... the bad news here are that if sonic catches up he can easily escape with his Up B and hit us with that thing... so as always mix it up.

Tech Dthrow!!! if you DI down the Dthrow and tech it you will tech it in sonic's face, but he may be able to Fsmash, so mix up tech rolls.

watch out for Uthrow > Uair > Uair stuff that can kill way early if you don't DI x_x Dair's last longing hitbox can help to avoid the hit from Uair, still be careful.

I don't remember other thing right now but I think this will work!

this may be: +2 sonic

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Tbh, this MU is pretty easy. If you can do the momentum cancel, you will be living for a while a well.

Just walk at Sonic, no running at all. Simple walking at Sonic makes him have to make a move an as long as you're walking, shield will come faster. Afterward, it's just basic punish if possible. It'll be a long drawn out game of spacing and baiting but walking well help most.

-1 for us imo.

 

[Toadallstar2]

If a Sonic has an annoying habit of using their dair, just use an up-tilt, and he'll connect with that. Very useful when he's at high percents, and can kill.

You have to time when he will come at you and then maybe you'll have a chance to defend and punish. Sometimes I'll forward smash when he's away and he'll just run into it.

60-40 sonic's advantage imo.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Tech Dthrow!!! if you DI down the Dthrow and tech it you will tech it in sonic's face, but he may be able to Fsmash, so mix up tech rolls.

i think we can at least get a Dtilt or jab off if not a grab before sonic can react if we tech the Dthrow

 

[AlanHaTe]

i think we can at least get a Dtilt or jab off if not a grab before sonic can react if we tech the Dthrow

maybe you're right, I'll test it so we know what are the pros and cons of doing this

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think everyone has already said it all about sonic. He's really annoyingly fast and can run away really really well.

he has a really freaking hard time killing us though as long as we don't let him get us off the stage and abuse our recovery and we have sone really nice high priority lingering hitboxes.

The sonic vs. zelda matchup is, really, a test of the mind over anything else. Sonic flat out cannot win any exchange with Zelda . . . but he can trick us really REALLY easily meaning that if the sonic is good at tricking us, we won't be able to react fast enough to punish him. Alternatively, if he fails to trick us, he'll eat a lot of damage that he can't afford to take.


The dealbreaker here, though, is that sonic really doesn't need to commit very often so he can just poke us, more or less, so even if he can't fake us out we'll have a hard time hitting him... hard enough, at least to give sonic the edge here.

I'd give this matchup to sonic 55:45 only because zelda is so freaking slow so, once he gets an advantage, it's excruciating to try to take it from him.

this matchup is really helped a lot if you're familiar with sonics, though, and you know their tricks. This matchup is very winnable so be sure to give yourself all the tools you can to win it.

Also, if memory serves, Jab can actually be moderately useful in this matchup even though it's normally a steaming pile of poo.

+1 or +2(?) Ike/60 - 40 or 65 - 55 Ike

65:55 isn't an actual ratio. Based on what +1 and +2 mean, however, I asume you mean 55:45?

 

[AlanHaTe]

65:55 isn't an actual ratio. Based on what +1 and +2 mean, however, I asume you mean 55:45?

lol you're right I messed up with the numbers... now it's fixed, thanks for saying something about it.

EDIT: and I tested it... seems like we can get Dtilt* and Dsmash only.

Dtilt MUST be buffered if you want it to actually hit, and it's something hard, if you mess up Sonic will PS the Dtilt, also, it's much easier to hit if sonic decides to jab.

 

[Fluttershy]

Star Wolf is now up so play time is over

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Wolf? 60:40 Wolf

Wolfs Bairs and Lasers are annoying and hurt. fortunately unlike the other two spaceys we can walk towards Wolf and PS lasers pretty well cause they are slow single shots or hop over them. w/e you want to do. its nice to be camped but not overly camped for once.

Wolf can have a field day w/ poor Zelda if you get tossed up in the air. i think his Uair out reaches our Dair plus its fast and disjointed and him falling faster than us even makes trying to airdodge down a mixup chore. so try and stay grounded or under wolf as much as you can.

Wolf is easy to chain Usmashes on at early percents so if you feel you can catch him in it go for it. when near the edge be wary of edge scarring as you don't want Zelda flying off in some direction. i prefer to edge guard from dash grab distance this way any scarring that happens i can Fsmash Wolf back and im still able to close in quickly w/ a ground action (dash grab/attack) or go aerial w/ Nair or Fair.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Wolf is easy to chain Usmashes on at early percents

Down B and chain Usmashes becomes useless...

I really think this is a hard MU, the 2 times I have played Hedi's Wolf it has been a pain, and I really don't know how I got to his last stock, because there's something hard x_x

Wolf's Bair is a real pain, I don't know exactly what we can do to actually hit wolf when he's using it, Ftilt may get the job done but if we miss it we get punished hard(what a surprise)... so I think the best choice is to PS and Usmash or even Dsmash, btw it has to be a rising Bair in order to get the chance to punish, if not it gets auto cancelled, so better watch when it is done and there we know what's best to do.

his lasers are some of the easiest things to PS in the game, the problem is... what to do if we PS them? maybe nothing if we are far away, but if we need to approach, well, not to much really, just predict what the wolf would do and/or bait with something and then punish...

we need to try to save and keep as fresh as possible our Dsmash, it ***** wolf, and can make a big difference.

this one happened to me when wolf was offstage, I was just sitting there launching Din's to se if I could hit with one when wolf used his Side B and BAM! he went through smashville and hit me ... that was when I remembered he can do that, so keep that in mind and if you think it could happen to you shield ASAP just in case... or if you know if he will do it or not do what you have to do.

his fall speed and air speed can be a problem because he can easily bait us.

I think I can only say,

to play safe and always keep in mind that his Down B exists and it's >>>>> any move we can do unless it's perfectly spaced and timed... (it should be timed to hit AFTER the reflector's hitbox)

bait and punish

remember that side B thing

fresh Dsmash = possible early kill

that's all I can think of right now...

this one I think is 70:30 / +3 Wolf

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Down B and chain Usmashes becomes useless...

oh yeah i forgot about that move..... oh well.

Wolf's Bair is a real pain, I don't know exactly what we can do to actually hit wolf when he's using it, Ftilt may get the job done but if we miss it we get punished hard(what a surprise)... so I think the best choice is to PS and Usmash or even Dsmash, btw it has to be a rising Bair in order to get the chance to punish, if not it gets auto cancelled, so better watch when it is done and there we know what's best to do.

maybe jab the Bairs? i try not to test the Bairs and instead try to guess the next action after the bair to counter it.

his lasers are some of the easiest things to PS in the game, the problem is... what to do if we PS them?

wavebounce lasers move Wolf to far away for Zelda to really punish. i would just continue to move to a closer position.

 

[AlanHaTe]

oh yeah i forgot about that move..... oh well.

yeah, I also forgot about that move the last time I played a Wolf and I was horribly frustrated

maybe jab the Bairs? i try not to test the Bairs and instead try to guess the next action after the bair to counter it.

I was thinking about that, but I'm not really sure how safe it is, still we can try it