Zero Suit Samus Dsmash chain combo tests(All characters tested)(VIDEO!)

[DarkShadowRage]

Well as we all know there is a down A chain combo with ZSS as we all saw in that video, it works well against fox and stops him dead in his tracks and nearly unescapable unless you screw up in it.

What I am going to do is conduct tests on every character with my friend just to see if I can trap them in it and how long before they escape or if they just fly away from the knock back of the First Smash.

I'll be posting on which characters it DOES work against and which it doesnt.
If you are interested but i'll be updating this thread with tests.

Time to see where this takes me

Video Footage of the Double Dsmash Chain:
SSBB Wifi Friend Match (DSR)ZSS vs DSTK-Fox
0% to 95% in a matter of seconds, Though I freaking hate 3 stock because it's too ****ed short.

SSBB Wifi Friend Match (DSR)ZSS Vs WNx-IC vs SRTM-Marth Ice Climbers Chained near the end of the battle.58% Dsmash Chain


Coming soon/Hope to get done:
I hope to get the percentages from when they can be escaped, if anyone wants to help me with this please let me know so we can get this done. And put it up here for all to see.
We need the % damage it deals before they are flying all over.

WHO CAN BE CHAINED AND WHO CANNOT AND HOW TO!:


Characters That can be chained so far:
Fox
Wolf
Falco
Sonic
R.O.B.
Bowser
Samus/ZSS
Ganondorf
Link
Sheik
Pit
Mr Game & Watch
Ness
Captain Falcon
Ike
Pokemon Trainer: Ivysaur
Diddy Kong
Lucas

Chainable but a Gamble:
Ice Climbers
King Dedede

Debateable:
Mario
Luigi
Metaknight(really debateable)
Donkey Kong
Pokemon Trainer: Squirtle

Unable to chain:
Kirby
Lucario
Zelda
Peach
Snake
Marth
Jigglypuff
Olimar
Wario
Yoshi
Toon Link
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer: Charizard

Chainable:

Fox: Fox can be chained very easily, he lands on the ground right after the first dsmash, just fire another quickly after, though be sure to keep up with it. Fox, Falco, And Wolf have a real hard time escaping this, it's almost impossible unless they fly back far enough.
Fox can be double dsmash chained up to 90% before he can escape.

Falco: Falco can be chained very much the same way as fox, however A ukemi can cancel the chain if you don't reach the attack in time.

Wolf: Wolf can be chained just the same way as fox and falco, same tactics and it stops them dead in their tracks.

Sonic: The fastest running hedgehog can be stopped in his tracks, the very same way as fox and falco and wolf, he has a small falling speed when he lands. It makes for a nice chain smash, but be careful he can also evade if he does not hit the ground. but he is basicly the same as fox wolf and falco.

R.O.B.: R.O.B. Can be chain smashed, when he hits the ground kinda like fox and falco, but be warry if he doesnt land, also if he fast falls backwards he can escape it, but he perfectly able to be chained. it's a bit hard but he is chainable.

Bowser: Dispite his huge size, he can be chained, but he can also escape if he fast falls backwards. Easy to chain, but can escape.

Samus/Zero Suit Samus: Yes we can be chained by our own attacks :o I had him use ZSS as well on me, it's escapeable by a backwards air dodge, but it's perfectly able to be chained into the smash as long as you can hit them when they hit the ground but it doesnt happen all the time you gotta be on time with it. Right as they land from the first Dsmash execute the other before they can DI.

Ganondorf: Ganondorf CAN Be chain smashed! it works the same as most others but he goes back a little bit further but he can be chain smashed, but be CAREFUL, he can SHEILD it and cancel your approch after the first smash as well.

Link: Link can be smashed up to 50% before he starts flying out, but can escape with a fastfall backwards as well.

I was able to 0-70% (around that) Link... when I tried again he up-b'd out of it...

Sheik: Sheik can be chained very easily one after the other very quickly, they can escape just by moving backwards fastfall.

Pit: Pit can be chained up to 33% and maybe more but once it's near up to 33% the second smash tends to miss the stun and causes damage, so he is a semi-chain.

Mr Game & Watch: G&W can be chained pretty easily but he backs out quickly, you can get maybe 5-6 dsmashes in before he can escape.

Ness: Ness CAN be chained, but there is the hazard of him absorbing your dsmash so do this wisely.

Captain Falcon: Yes our captain can be chained much like ganondorf but after the 4th attack he can faclon kick you out of it.

Ike: Aether Spam, duh! Well this walking homerun bat can be chained easily he has a quick fall so he falls prey to the chain, becareful of his counter and he can jump out of it as well.

Pokemon trainer: Ivysaur, This pokemon can be chain smashed pretty well though can escape with a jump or fast falling backwards.

Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash.

Lucas: Lucas can be chained but it's rather tricky and he can escape from the first dsmash with a simple jump. Just have to make sure you are close to him while you are doing this to catch him in the chain smash.

Chainable but a gamble:
Ice Climbers: These guys come with a price, make sure you HIT THEM BOTH Nana COULD come out and attack you if you focus on popo, if you are chaining them make sure you catch BOTH! This one is a gamble.

King Dedede: Triple D is a gamble, because he can jump out of it, but he is also perfectly smashable. After the first Dsmash he will land on the ground in the smallest form this is your chance to continue it, and try to keep it going, however if you try again he has a chance to not hit the ground and can jump away, Chaining him is a gamble but it is perfectly possible.


Unchainable:

Zelda: Zelda however cannot be chained, she does not hit the ground after a dsmash, she floats up thus canceling any attempt to chain smash her.

Peach: Peach is just like Lucario, doesnt really hit the ground so she is unchainable as she floats.

Snake: I can't seem to chain him as even he does have a small landing he still isnt on the ground but I can hit him with a second smash which doesnt stun him but damages him.
But he is now unchainable.

Lucario: Lucario can't seem to be chain smashed as he does not hit the ground, I will try further testing later on but as of now he cannot be chain smashed.

Kirby: Kirby is unchainable, he does not land on the ground completely eleminating the chance for a second chain hit, if anyone wants to test more on this fill free to.

Marth: Marth cannot be chained just like zelda and lucario and peach he does not hit the ground, he is too light

Jigglypuff: Jiggs can't be chained as she too is way to light and doesnt hit the ground.

Olimar: He cannot be chained as he bounces too high for the combo to continue.

Wario: Fat blubber boy, cannot be chained his F-flap makes him floaty and he can jump out of the first Dsmash and he doesnt land on the ground.

Yoshi: Once again too light and his able to escape with his kick jump.

Toon Link: Unlike his counter part this walking AR code cannot be chained, he is too floaty in the air after the first smash.

Pokemon Trainer: Charizard, Like the others he's too floaty and he cannot be cought in a second smash.

Pikachu: Too bouncy after the first smash, the second dsmash just glazes him and doesnt even stun him. No chain.

Debateable:
Mario: I can sort of chain mario, though he moves pretty quick in the DI to escape the series of smashes, but if you are quick enough you can catch him in the chain but it's tricky.

Luigi: he's just about the same as mario, you have to be careful of the ukemi
Also anyone can jump to avoid this provided they get in the air in time.

Metaknight: Metaknight is really debateable I have only been able to catch him in 3 dsmashes, he can be dsmashed out of his mach tornado, after the first dsmash he has a small knock back and can be cought again but after the third he can fly to safety, basicly you can only get 3 smashes on him if he trys to escape with mach tornado, further testing will be needed.

Donkey Kong: Giant monkey with tie, can sorta be cought in a chain, but he can also jump out of it after the first smash, testing on this to see what works better will be needed here, fill free to test all you want.

Pokemon Trainer:Squirtle This pokemon can be semi-chained but he CAN jump out of it but he cannot fast fall, if you want to experiment with this go for it.

 

[Tristan_win]

Since Sheik has the second fastest falling speed in the game (or so I recall) this should also work on her as well even though she is so light weight.

I expect falling speed is the culprit here not weight.

Edit: Also you should really be testing this with real and in person players who know how to DI but if anything your test will show who can't escape if your opponent doesn't DI correctly/ jump in time.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Since Sheik has the second fastest falling speed in the game (or so I recall) this should also work on her as well even though she is so light weight.

I expect falling speed is the culprit here not weight.

Edit: Also you should really be testing this with real and in person players who know how to DI but if anything your test will show who can't escape if your opponent doesn't DI correctly/ jump in time.

I would do that, but no one is on >_< I have to limit it to CPU tests for now the real person tests will come later today, Just want to see if I can catch them first.


Edit: Actually I got my friend to come on so we will be doing tests of EVERY character.

 

[Tristan_win]

I would do that, but no one is on >_< I have to limit it to CPU tests for now the real person tests will come later today, Just want to see if I can catch them first.


Edit: Actually I got my friend to come on so we will be doing tests of EVERY character.

I smile at the edit

Once I get home I'll happily look upon your results,

Oh and thank you for going out of your way like this to help the Zamus community

 

[salaboB]

Oh and thank you for going out of your way like this to help the Zamus community

I support this statement.

I'd also expect you'll find fall speed is what matters most for this, since the move seems to have relatively fixed knockback.

 

[Cancel]

im definitley going to try this out when i get home.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Constantly updating this thing, we got a few more characters to go


My friend had to go for a bit, but we got a hand full of characters tested. hopefully it makes sense..I tried to explain it as best I could.

But yes falling speed really is dependant on this combo.

 

[S2]

Great thread.

A video would be helpful, but your written info is really good. Kinda nice that this works on many of the characters that are percieved as being potentially high tier.

Keep up the good work.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

All characters have now been tested.

Discuss? test out the debateables? try it out.

 

[Snakeee]

Very nice job. However, I don't know how good your friend is at DI and escaping combos in general. It still gives a good idea on it though. Also, Dedede cannot chain grab us

EDIT: "Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash."

If he can jump out of it how is he able to get chained?
And I don't understand that last part about Falco, think there's a typo there.

Last, I request you experiment this with double d smashes, they worked on the computer and may have been better than doing single ones... I can't play anyone until this weekend so I can't try this myself right now.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Very nice job. However, I don't know how good your friend is at DI and escaping combos in general. It still gives a good idea on it though. Also, Dedede cannot chain grab us

EDIT: "Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash."

If he can jump out of it how is he able to get chained?
And I don't understand that last part about Falco, think there's a typo there.

Last, I request you experiment this with double d smashes, they worked on the computer and may have been better than doing single ones... I can't play anyone until this weekend so I can't try this myself right now.

Well he's pretty decent at DI, You can chain smash diddy for a little bit but they are able to break free, unlike fox and falco and wolf who have a hard time even getting out of it. these other characters can be chain smashed but they have the ability to escape.

as for Dedede I only said that because he's known for his notorious unescapable chaingrab, so i used that as a counter

 

[Ares And Enyo]

I'm pretty sure this works on snake - perhaps you should try again? Also it would be nice if all of these had exit damages and the "gambles" were put in their own group

 

[TrevynThOt]

yeah man escape damages would be useful i dunno what I'm doin wrong I can barely get fox stuck into it til like 50% and he bounes to high. I'm practicing it in training mode so i can get used to the timing but that video shows him doin it to like 100% what am I doing wrong?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Hmm I guess I should do some escape damage, and as for snake I've tried multiple times he doesnt land in the second dsmash.

 

[Garde]

As you saw last night, Shadow, Wolf can escape after the 2nd d-smash. He can ground dodge/shield before a 3rd d-smash can hit him, unless your timing was off.

 

[Ares And Enyo]

really? I've been able to get him 3-4 times ... but I'm playing with a ntsc-j copy which could be an interesting difference - I'll try to get a video up in a day or two

btw where in texas r u - i'm in austin we should try wifi some time

 

[DarkShadowRage]

really? I've been able to get him 3-4 times ... but I'm playing with a ntsc-j copy which could be an interesting difference - I'll try to get a video up in a day or two

btw where in texas r u - i'm in austin we should try wifi some time

Same area just in the round rock area

 

[DarkShadowRage]

As you saw last night, Shadow, Wolf can escape after the 2nd d-smash. He can ground dodge/shield before a 3rd d-smash can hit him, unless your timing was off.

My Timing was off but you are able to escape it but if the timing is spot on it makes it very hard.


Edit: Well THIS works with DOUBLE smashes! I did it to a fox CPU, I got double the damage got him up to 90% before it was able to escape.

 

[BANSHI]

this is beautiful, whoever came up with this is genious

 

[The Great Leon]

good ****. but just to nitpick...
i had to look up wtf "A ukemi" was (teching)
and dedede cannot chaingrab zamus
but anyway thanks for putting the time and effort into this. movie in the future?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

good ****. but just to nitpick...
i had to look up wtf "A ukemi" was (teching)
and dedede cannot chaingrab zamus
but anyway thanks for putting the time and effort into this. movie in the future?

I've been chaingrabbed by Triple D XD it sucks.

But again the only reason I said that is because he's notorious for his imfamous infinate chain grab of hell

But yeah i'll make a video of some of the chains when I can.

 

[Snakeee]

Edit: Well THIS works with DOUBLE smashes! I did it to a fox CPU, I got double the damage got him up to 90% before it was able to escape.

As I thought, thanks for confirming it for me.
Though, 90%, I didn't think it'd make THAT much of a difference o_O

 

[DarkShadowRage]

As I thought, thanks for confirming it for me.
Though, 90%, I didn't think it'd make THAT much of a difference o_O

Dsmash Dsmash, wait for stun to stop then Dsmash Dsmash again rinse repeat

 

[Snakeee]

Yeah, I know how to do it lol.
Ok, I was looking over all the characters now, and you say a lot of them in the chainable section can escape. Now if they can escape it, then anyone one good WILL escape it. To me if they can escape it they are not chainable. So, in reality if what you said is all correct, then there's really only a few of characters this will really work on.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Yeah, I know how to do it lol.
Ok, I was looking over all the characters now, and you say a lot of them in the chainable section can escape. Now if they can escape it, then anyone one good WILL escape it. To me if they can escape it they are not chainable. So, in reality if what you said is all correct, then there's really only a few of characters this will really work on.

Some are semi chained, but it works really the best against fox falco and wolf, but I say they are chainable because they can be cought in the chain, but they can escape if you screw up or the knock back allows them to escape thus letting them DI from it.

 

[Garde]

Well, a lot of chain grabs were escapable, but they were still considered chain grabs because it became a guessing game (if the chain grabber guessed right, they could continue the chain) to keep chaining. Some people it just doesn't work on, with no chance of continuing the chain (and he listed those people). I think the list should be split up into "no hope of escaping," "can be escaped," and "it doesn't work" sections.

 

[Ares And Enyo]

i second this new division section ... I did feel the word gamble (though just a nit-picky thing) was a little too vauge

 

[Eten]

At least define it where
1-You can put another Dsmash on them before the hitstun from the last dsmash wears off, given your Zamus has perfect timing/spacing/ability to read DI
2-Those who can DI so that they can avoid the Dsmash long enough that the hitstun wears off and they jump/airdodge etc. out of it.
3-Those who simply can not be hit with another dsmash before the hitstun from the previous dsmash weras off regardless of DI/timing.

Because right now your list is not only confusing, but the way many of the things are phrased leave the impression that the accuracy of the testing is questionable, where the individual player's DI + Zamus's timing/spacing on landing additional dsmashes are influencing your actual statements "can be chainsmashed, cannot be chainsmashed"

Remember, these things might be a factor and should show up in the final conclusion-
Dsmash knockback likely diminishes with multiple uses
% damage likely influences knockback
It would be best if these two variables were kept track of.

Additionally
character fall speed
Character size(big enough to end up in dsmash range despite possibly not falling quickly)

 

[DarkShadowRage]

At least define it where
1-You can put another Dsmash on them before the hitstun from the last dsmash wears off, given your Zamus has perfect timing/spacing/ability to read DI
2-Those who can DI so that they can avoid the Dsmash long enough that the hitstun wears off and they jump/airdodge etc. out of it.
3-Those who simply can not be hit with another dsmash before the hitstun from the previous dsmash weras off regardless of DI/timing.

Because right now your list is not only confusing, but the way many of the things are phrased leave the impression that the accuracy of the testing is questionable, where the individual player's DI + Zamus's timing/spacing on landing additional dsmashes are influencing your actual statements "can be chainsmashed, cannot be chainsmashed"

Remember, these things might be a factor and should show up in the final conclusion-
Dsmash knockback likely diminishes with multiple uses
% damage likely influences knockback
It would be best if these two variables were kept track of.

Additionally
character fall speed
Character size(big enough to end up in dsmash range despite possibly not falling quickly)

Sorry that it was confusing to understand, I tried my best to word it as best I could, I am also still working on the amount of damage % basicly all we are doing is starting the dsmash and to see if they can get out of it before I land the second one, the ones where the second one hits, often leads into the third and so on and so on, the ones who don't hit the ground cannot be hit by the smash as falling speed is a variable, but understand I can't give exact number data on this stuff Maybe damage percentages and the amount of hits.

We tested it multiple times to see that if we could land the second dsmash to start a chain of smashes, the ones where we couldn't could not be chained because they simply do not hit the ground fast enough as they are floaty. they have to hit the ground to chain, but I am still doing more testing because i'm sure I Might have made a few mistakes along the way, that's why I encourge people to try out with the given information for theirself to see if I made any errors and correct me as needed so I can clear up confusion.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I just 3 stocked some guys fox, I double Dsmash chained him at the end, though I hate 3 stock battles because they where too **** short but it's a video of the Double Chain in action.
He went from 0% to 95% in a matter of seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_88uiY36qQ

Chain Smash at the end people 0% to 95%

 

[TrevynThOt]

ok so I've been doin this in training mode vs a fox just tryin to learn the timing for it now by 50% when the down smash stun is done the fox bounces out to high to continue the chain now when i watch yaw videos and they don't bounce that far i don't understand why can anyone help me with this?

 

[Eten]

Try it outside of training mode
plug in another controller and do it against an idle human player probably

I suspect it might have to do with dimishing knockback. It it works, report, eh?

 

[TrevynThOt]

well I'm just wonderin i it has to do with bad DI or somethin cause if a computer can get outa it obviously a person can get outa it, now I'm also wonderin if they training mode has a damage ratio set to somethin higher than normal play you know what I mean cause if thats the case than any american verision should be able to do this, but the first video it was a japanese game i don't know if they have different settings either sorry these are just a buncha i don't know about the game I'm tryin to clear up.

 

[Eten]

No, but training mode doesn't get effected by diminishing knockback on attacks, which could be the issue.

 

[TrevynThOt]

ok cool this tactic is amazing but it's really tough to land espically on someone good heh i can barely get down smashs on good people, the best chance i see this workin on is when they are on the ledge and you know they will roll tap on or get up attack you know? but yeah freakin awesome discovery and you'd have to land it at like 0% for it to work cause if they at 50% and it's your first hit the knock back will allow them to escape which is lame

 

[Orichalcum]

I can party confirm on wolf being chainable, i pulled off a 0 to 70%ish chain on him yesterday. I dont know if he tried hard to get out or not but yeah, probably since that were kind alot of fsmash lol

 

[Sonic_keyblade]

I was able to 0-70% (around that) Link... when I tried again he up-b'd out of it... maybe you should put that on...

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I was able to 0-70% (around that) Link... when I tried again he up-b'd out of it... maybe you should put that on...

Thanks! I'll add that

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I think I might have been wrong about Marth I almost cought a cpu Marth in a double dsmash, but I think in order to catch him you have to move forward instead of remaining stationary...I Have to do some more testing on that to see if it really works but It might have been dumb luck.

Anyone else willing to test out Marth as well?

 

[Da Illlest]

I never use this move, always thought it was impossible becuz i play some competitive opponents. But now i know its chainable its defenitley worth working on. So how does this really work? Down smash twice wait for stun then do it again? Also u mite wanna add how it works at the very top of ur post.