ZGD: Livin by a thread.

[M@v]

If Brawl Zelda had hitstun she'd be a LOT better. That's the only reason melee zelda is a better character than brawl zelda. She may be even worse moveset wise, but she had hitstun to make combos.

 

[BJN39]

@ Kataefi Red parts are my responses.

BJ if you're gonna do that, can I suggest a few very obvious things:

If they are sticking with her slower-than-normal jab that seriously does 6% (which is 8-10 frames slower than other standard jabs), they better make it combo into something, or at the very least increase the damage or even just the shield damage...
I'm pretty sure this has already been talked about, and ideas have come up. Such as either making its startup quicker, and/or improving the followup potential.

If they're sticking with escapable smashes, that's fine But my god... give her a followup to the opponent's DI! No one deserves a second chance when hit by a move that's around 16 frames long. We've already seen pika pop out of Fsmash a number of times and kirby slide out of Usmash...
They're sticking with multi-hits, and I'm glad. The easy problem solver is to just fin tune the multi-hits' angles and KBs, and reduce the SDI multipliers. (If SDI ends up being in SSB4.) This has also already been put on the list.

If they're keeping her slower-than-normal grab (which isn't even a tether and twice as slow as other standard grabs), give her a kill throw, or some reward for landing the grab. It seems they're addressing this tho...
You're right, it SEEMS to already be getting attention by the developers. Alongside this, it's possible Bthrow might already be buffed to KO better, and Dthrow has a higher, more combo friendly anlge. So It SEEMS that grab will be a viable move for Zelda.

If they're considerably nerfing the outer circle of din's fire, make the whole thing transcendent so the opponent respects it (unlike brawl where 100% of the cast could aerial it AND her for free damage, making it nearly useless in 1v1...)
This, I myself adressed, and it (and MANY other positive changes. Including the obvious no freefall.) has already been put on the suggestions list.

If they're gonna make her sweetspots difficult to land again, give her some sort of longevity to be able to land them in tandem with the amount of damage the opponent is going to be giving her (heavier weight would do the trick here...), otherwise she'll just be an unrealistically rewarding character that dies at 90 again... whereas, say... 20% more survival could give her just a little more time to land that kick (not a good buff but it's something, right?)
I actually was gonna suggest they make Kicks similar to P:M's hit-box system. I think it's a great design, and keeps the heel sweetspot, too.

Finally... wtf have they done to dtilt and usmash and utilt? I've heard dtilt doesn't even combo anymore and Usmash has no side hitbox... If they're going to keep her slow & light half-character self in Brawl, she needs even BEEFIER hitboxes to catch the amount of faster characters in this game, not nerfed ones. She could be like the hitbox variation of a grappler (seeing as she's always on the approach). You only need to look at character rolls in this game to see how hard she's going to be catching people if they decide to run away from her. It's a good thing projectiles appear nerfed tho...
*Sigh* No one seems to get Utilt and Dtilt's changes... -_- They ARE different, yes, and I will admit Dtilt is now unable to lock like it did in Brawl, but Utilt IS NOT NERFED OVERALL! No one seems to get it until I tell them that it's now a combo move. It combos into itself, and multiple other attacks now. It's also incredibly fast. Dtilt appears to now only hit up which means that maybe it coul be used easier as a combo starter. IDK, though on this one.
(Also, the damage nerfs to Dtilt and Utlit may seem unfair, but take into account EVERY character is getting damage nerfs across the board. Aside from those TWO moves, Zelda was hit a lot less hard by these nerfs.)
Besides it was doing a bad job being the worse but fresh version of Usmash. Now she has a combo move that's fast, and a KO move that's... Slower I guess. (Usmash still has side hit-boxes. IDK who told you otherwise. It's true though the move has very slightly less range. Alongside that, it appears to have a new IASA that makes it faster.)

I doubt they'll listen but I hope they address a few things

I am personally still holding in some hope that some of the changes we're asking will get put in. Maybe now that more people (developers) are working on balance, that they'll look over things a little better.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Sakutroll will strike to put more misery on the princess. X3

#ForeverBottomTier

 

[BJN39]

#ForeverBottomTier

^ Hopefully not. Actually.

 

[SBphiloz4]

^ Hopefully not. Actually.

My post posted like 2 hours AFTER the time I actually posted this...

But here's hoping. Honestly, I'd be extremely thrilled if she even gets promoted to LOW TIER for goodness sake. c':

 

[Alacion]

But what about that feeling you get when beating somebody with Zelda? Doesn't happen all the time but hell it feels awesome.

Low tier isn't 100% bad. Too bad P:M rendered Low Tier events non-existent.

 

[SBphiloz4]

The unfortunate thing is that I've actually never been to an actual tournament before. I really just play casually with my friends and at least try to follow what's up in tourneys... ^^;;

Well, I'm decent enough to beat my friends with Zelda maybe 95% of the time? But I know I'd be CREAMED if I actually went to a tourney to fight. Sooo... I unfortunately don't know that awesome feeling yet. Maybe soon, or maybe I'll never. X3

 

[Alacion]

Losing is the best thing to happen to you... usually since that's when you learn the most. Of course losing an important tourney match sucks.

When I play Brawl smashfests to level up, I'm at a 50% losing rate and probably 98% losing rate to Big D. In Melee, I'm probably at a 80% losing rate and probably 60% losing rate against those at my level give or take a bit (Matchup johns!!!). Of course in tournaments, I do WAY better than placing in the bottom 20% :D

There's not as much room for improvement if you win all the time. I do feel like I'm getting better bit by bit Now if only somebody pushed some P:M motivation to me.

 

[Kataefi]

thanks BJ you are vanquishing mah fears with every post

BUT

I still don't like this new utilt. I don't know why... Worried she's not gonna hit it very much like in melee/brawl. I know it's vastly sped up tho which could make it better. Does the hitbox look any good?

Also i just realised her recovery is amazing now... Speed buff and insta-snap ledges from seemingly any distance... and it's killpower looks strong AND combos into itself from the 1st hit. Looking good!

 

[BJN39]

But what about that feeling you get when beating somebody with Zelda? Doesn't happen all the time but hell it feels awesome.

Well, you can still lose and be mid-tier. I wouldn't mind her just being semi-viable. ' . '



As for Utilt Kataefi, its hit-box appears (Of course without the actual game to compare to Brawl with, it's nearly impossible to know for sure.) to be nearly the same, but possibly slightly smaller. Visually it looks slightly smaller, so that's why it might be slightly smaller. Which I admit would be a little disappointing.

 

[dimensionsword64]

I found a few more Fujin accounts.
There's these,

@Fuujin @Fujin @Fujin Emblem @Fujin Gear Solid @Fujin Reloaded @Fujin Reloaded: The Re-Up @Fujin the unbannable @Foojin

and here's some more.
@Final Fujin 2 @Beyond: Two Fujins @The Last Fujin @FujintalksboutDin'sFire @Justice4Fujin @Phugin
Those are the ones I found, but there's probably more.

 

[SBphiloz4]

There's not as much room for improvement if you win all the time. I do feel like I'm getting better bit by bit Now if only somebody pushed some P:M motivation to me.

I wish I can see for myself what tourney experience is like. Beating friends is not enough. Haha. But I'd love to actually fight some real skilled players (probably would lose miserably too) and learn from that. ^^

Yeah, her recovery sounds a LOT better now! ifonlywegetnonhelplessstateDinsFireImeanwut

 

[Alacion]

Link confirmed to have Skyward Sword outfit.

 

[Fluttershy]

Link confirmed to have Skyward Sword outfit.

Maybe they'll give Zelda hers as well

 

[SBphiloz4]

SS Link loooks SOOOOO good. And now, since I posted more than 10 times, I can FINALLY embed links in a Zelda forum that's talking about Link ATM, linking to a Zelda website also talking about Link. Ye.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/links-new-costume-goes-between-worlds-in-the-new-smash-bros

 

[SBphiloz4]

"Queen" Zelda as shown in new footage of Hyrule Warriors! Damn! She looks so amazing! *w*

If only she had this much strength in her Smash carnations. XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKxp7nrFDD8

 

[Rizen]

^How can she volley light arrows? Is Hyrule located in a black hole?

 

[SBphiloz4]

#NintendoLogic at its finest. ccc:

 

[BJN39]

"Queen" Zelda as shown in new footage of Hyrule Warriors! Damn! She looks so amazing! *w*

If only she had this much strength in her Smash carnations. XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKxp7nrFDD8

1:05

Hold on...

Is that

Ridley?!

and Futo Monobe?!

 

[Kataefi]

So.... apparently the ledge mechanics mean ledges are easier to steal in Smash 4

IF farore's keeps the insta-snap, and stays fast, and still teleports her from A to B uninterrupted...

How on earth is she going to be edgeguarded?

I suppose getting up from the ledge will be tricky what with invincibility running out faster this time but still... HAXxxX!!

 

[Rizen]

I like the new ledge mechanics. I wasn't one of the scrubs who complains about edge hogging being cheap but planking was an annoying tactic in Brawl. If the new ledge game gets rid of all the edge camping and planking then I can accept edge hogging being gone.

 

[BJN39]

Agreed.

Although, I wonder, is it still possible to ledge hog if you grab the edge at just the right time before the opponent? Like, using invincibility frames (perfectly timed) to possibly not be bopped off the ledge by the other person. If so, then ledge hogging would still be in, but you'd just need to be more precise. Which sounds like a good mix IMO.

 

[Rizen]

Agreed.

Although, I wonder, is it still possible to ledge hog if you grab the edge at just the right time before the opponent? Like, using invincibility frames (perfectly timed) to possibly not be bopped off the ledge by the other person. If so, then ledge hogging would still be in, but you'd just need to be more precise. Which sounds like a good mix IMO.

Another way edge hogging could work is if freefalling opponents can't trump ledge grabs and only characters capable of free movement can.

 

[Kataefi]

See, that's going to be a big decider as to whether her recovery is mediocre or wtfhaxxx... If edgehogging is close to non-existent now, (and that's a big if), that means you'd have to intercept the opponent's recovery BEFORE they reach the ledge.

Most if not all characters travel from a to b with opportunities to interrupt their flight path. Because Zelda doesn't have one tho... chasing her on start-up might be the only opportunity to interrupt her, and that's going to be trickier for the opponent now what with teleport still being ranged and notably faster on start-up.

Let us pay tribute to Farore and her flatulent wind, hoping such powerz are granted to us on final release Because I think that could sort of justify her being light (she looks lighter than brawl!)

Also if it does combo from start to end at certain %s, I wonder if the first hitbox comes out faster? If it's decently fast, there's potential to use it as a reversal... (In my mind I envision the opponent being able to DI the startup hitbox forcing Zelda to reappear correctly into them, otherwise she'll miss and be in for a biiig punish. Sounds neat but... I'm probably way off base here!)

 

[SBphiloz4]

Did someone report Farore's Wind being able to "auto-snap" onto the ledge if Zelda is close enough to it or something like that? I think this will at least make her ledge game stronger. Hey, if your aerial game is bad, and your ground game isn't pretty either, at leeeast we got something to work with. X3

 

[BJN39]

Did someone report Farore's Wind being able to "auto-snap" onto the ledge if Zelda is close enough to it or something like that? I think this will at least make her ledge game stronger. Hey, if your aerial game is bad, and your ground game isn't pretty either, at leeeast we got something to work with. X3

Yes. It appears that Zelda will "No-poof, Auto-Snap" a ledge if she's in range of it and angles towards it. (I'm not sure though if she can grab ledges during startup, like Melee though.)

Honestly, I though the changes would make her recovery better, but whatKataefi pointed out made me realize it'll be EVEN BETTER. Recovery definitely seems to be Zelda's most buffed area. Which alone helps her viability a few steps.

 

[BJN39]

*Adds "Phugin" to the list*

 

[Alacion]

Lol it has been completely removed...

 

[Rizen]

Lol it has been completely removed...

...But Fujin's spirit remains. Look the removal of Fujin's presence caused BJN39's posts to come together: to double post! Fujin did that all the time!

 

[BJN39]

So Fuujin, Much wow.


But seriously, I saw it coming.

Location: "Double posting in ur threads"

 

[Alacion]

This is clearly the hangout of the Fuujin fan club.

Super depressed that my work hours have been severely cut and being this far into the summer break means I have little hope of getting more.

 

[Rizen]

^That sucks . I hope things pick up for you.

 

[Alacion]

It will in September

Btw, we could always... QUOTE Fuujin's posts before his posts get removed!

 

[Rizen]

^It's probably better not to. The admins could edit our posts too.

 

[KayLo!]

Pretty sure you'd get infracted for it too lol. Madd respect for Fuu, but I wanna keep my account. ;;

 

[ぱみゅ]

Why would they ban you? No where in the rules it says you can't reply to ban-evading accounts.

 

[KayLo!]

Pretty sure intentionally quoting spam to keep it alive is against the rules lol. Not that I give a **** (& most mods prob don't either), but somebody clearly has it out for Fuu-boo and his antics.

 

[KayLo!]

Double post but uhh @ Fluttershy since I'm not cool enough to see your profile: I got a shiny Greninja through a trade, giving you first dibs if you want it.

5iv (everything but HP), Bold, Torrent, female, has Water Pulse / Round / Fling / Water Shuriken. So nothing special, but it looks pretty badass, and you might be able to trade it for something good. /shrug

Lemme know, or I'll pass it along to someone else.

 

[Rizen]

@ USA people, happy 4th of July!

 

[BJN39]

Woo, yeah! I'll be hangin' with some relatives out of town for the fireworks! :D

Have fun everyone who celebrates the 4th!