ZSS 1.0.4

[CupofT]

Global Changes:
- DI is back. VI is out
(http://smashboards.com/threads/dawn-of-a-new-day-vectoring-mostly-removed-in-patch-1-0-4.378709/)

Standard move fixes:
- Side-b works better now; the first hit doesn't launch directly into the sweet-spot in earlier versions. Also recovers faster due to more interruptable frames.
- Forward Smash connects better and is easier to sweetspot, working better on Greninja among others. It is a little safer on block now.
- Neutral air has a different subtly knockback angle now which makes some old combos not work but enables some new (better) ones.
- Down Smash is safer on block, enough that you can jab before the opponent can drop their shield
- Up-B connects better from down throw now (in the air).
- Down throw knockback is different; it starts lower, and instead instead of growing to eventually become more vertical, they are now launched at a set distance in front Zero Suit and the growth is vertical from that set point. I don't know how to explain this in technical terms, but opponents are no longer at a very vertical point from Zero Suit at high % after down throw.
- Zair recovery tether distance reduced when above the stage or too far below the stage. When she is lateral with the stage it is the same.
- Airdodge landing lag increased to 22f of lag from 15
- Paralyzer Shot's uncharged shot has a few more frames of recovery. Full charge is unaffected.
- Fully charged lasers no longer slightly launch opponents

Customs:
- Blast Shot and Spreading Shot can now be released before being charged fully.
- Spreading Shot now lasts long enough for ZSS to get a follow-up
- Whip Lash got the same buff as normal side-b, it is interruptable from an earlier point
- Impact Kick now properly absorbs the target so that the final hit connects properly
- Lateral Kick now allows ZSS full aerial movement during special fall
- Low Flip travels faster across the field

Stolen from: http://smashboards.com/threads/3ds-community-patch-notes-v1-0-4-engine-changes-to-di.378404/
(may contain slightly repeated changes)
USMASH
HITS ON : Frame 9 ⇒ Frame 11
PARALYZER
ENDING LAG : Increased
SPREADING SHOT
ENDING LAG : Reduced

 

[Carrill]

Does anyone else think they nerfed the range on her dash attack? Seems like it covers a lot less distance to me.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Does anyone else think they nerfed the range on her dash attack? Seems like it covers a lot less distance to me.

I feel the same, seems a lot shorter.


Up b feels way easier now to connect, especially with the new downthrow mechanic.
Perfectly justifies the later killing percent of up b.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

NAir seems stupid broken now. It's still safe and the angle it sends you at lets you get a Down B + Kick at higher percents. Haven't tested on a human but I don't remember it doing that before.

Confirm if this is something new and I'm not just insane?

 

[Daisy101]

if up B is fixed, its about time.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

if up B is fixed, its about time.

If you start from a too low position the last hit will still not connect but it feels a lot better.

Edit: Maybe I just suck but I cannot get the last hit of up b against marth. He just falls out every goddamn time.

Edit2: False alarm, I really just suck.

 

[David Viran]

This all sounds good. Most of these changes were needed accept to dtilt. This used to be one of my favorite moves in brawl, but it got nerfed in this game only to get nerfed again. Just makes me sad.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

what happened to dtilt? don't see anything about it in this thread.

 

[hiROI]

One of my favorite was the downthrow angle change. I find it easier to connect with Fair and then Uair.

 

[DeLux]

Weirdly in the new patch, I can't complete boost kick to save my life. I am hoping it's some sort of confirmation bias on my part though.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Weirdly in the new patch, I can't complete boost kick to save my life. I am hoping it's some sort of confirmation bias on my part though.

On whom did you try? I can easily do it on most of the cast except for Marth.
It feels a lot better than in 1.0.3.

 

[DeLux]

Like every character with the setups that I'd been using pre-patch. Soft read landing lag to boost kick.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Like every character with the setups that I'd been using pre-patch. Soft read landing lag to boost kick.

Well I am not nearly as good as you are but I can hit it most of the time.
Tried a bit more on marth and can pretty much hit him consistently too now.

Maybe the positioning changed slightly and you need to get used to it because you had the positioning down precisely.
I don't because I don't really know what I'm doing anyway, making it easier for me to hit with the kick.

I know, backwards logic but all I want to say is that it seems to work for me.

 

[David Viran]

what happened to dtilt? don't see anything about it in this thread.

I heard they changed the angle at which it Hit, for the worse.

 

[DeLux]

Well I am not nearly as good as you are but I can hit it most of the time.
Tried a bit more on marth and can pretty much hit him consistently too now.

Maybe the positioning changed slightly and you need to get used to it because you had the positioning down precisely.
I don't because I don't really know what I'm doing anyway, making it easier for me to hit with the kick.

I know, backwards logic but all I want to say is that it seems to work for me.

I am not going to lie, I am pretty bad
Not going to worry too much about it until we see me in Smash Wii U

 

[hiROI]

With the edits of the rest of the cast, do you think ZSS will remain in the top tier spectrum before the update?

With the update, I find it easier to combat against Sheik, especially with downthrow angel. I'm going to a tournament this weekend and test ZSS out with different characters. I feel that ZSS will remain up on the tier list, but I know other characters (for example Ness) got boosted due to the nerfs of others.

 

[Los4Muros]

Most of the things they did to her seem to be positive things? Does this mean they buffed Zero Suit Samus instead of nerfing her? I've been playing with her online and I'm pretty happy with the changes they gave her. It seems that she has everything she needs in a slightly more balanced way. And our biggest fear of having her drop in the Tier List is sfae for now.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Most of the things they did to her seem to be positive things? Does this mean they buffed Zero Suit Samus instead of nerfing her? I've been playing with her online and I'm pretty happy with the changes they gave her. It seems that she has everything she needs in a slightly more balanced way. And our biggest fear of having her drop in the Tier List is sfae for now.

Yeah - while the laser ending lag and airdodge landing lag nerfs hurt her a little, having a reliable side-B and up-B, as well as a better down throw angle, are certainly nice additions that improve her quality of life. I feel that she was slightly buffed overall, but she should also be a little less difficult, or frustrating, to play against considering punishing her for lasers and airdodging will now be easier.

 

[David Viran]

Question about her down throw. How long does it have true follow ups? Like about what percent on average with vector.

 

[Remzi]

So, now that vertical vectoring is out of the picture, ZSS should be able to follow up on dthrow until much higher percents. That is amazing

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So, now that vertical vectoring is out of the picture, ZSS should be able to follow up on dthrow until much higher percents. That is amazing

I thought just down vectoring is gone?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I thought just down vectoring is gone?

In short, people can no longer VI upwards to escape her down-throw follow-ups, meaning that her grab is now an even better punishing tool.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

In short, people can no longer VI upwards to escape her down-throw follow-ups, meaning that her grab is now an even better punishing tool.

But you can still VI upwards, only downwards VI is gone.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

My understanding is it's now the same as Brawl's Directional Influence. You can influence the trajectory you're sent off but can't change the distance of the knockback like before.

 

[NairWizard]

My understanding is it's now the same as Brawl's Directional Influence. You can influence the trajectory you're sent off but can't change the distance of the knockback like before.

You can change the knockback, but only horizontally, I believe.

 

[ffadicted]

Up B feels good now, confident it always hits... I'm so happy about this

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Up B feels good now, confident it always hits... I'm so happy about this

I still can't do it consistently, especially if the enemy di's away from me. Good to know that it's possible though, so I just have to git gud.

 

[Shadowfury333]

From what I can gather, it will work reliably when Samus is about the distance between Battlefield's floor and one of the lower platforms, up until she is level with the target.

 

[pichuthedk]

@ CupofT
Could you please add this to the change list regarding the laser change.
Fully charged lasers no longer slightly launch opponents (Unless of course this was changed in like 1.0.3)

@ Tobi_Whatever

Actually Aiming the upb and being as close to them as possible is imperative to determining whether you get them or not and you IF you notice they get out of it more then they should, You can down smash them -> fox trot past them and up almost immediately after you've run past them so that the down smash releases them into Samus as shes throwing out the final kick.

 

[CupofT]

@ CupofT
Could you please add this to the change list regarding the laser change.
Fully charged lasers no longer slightly launch opponents (Unless of course this was changed in like 1.0.3)

Added it to the bottom of "standard move fixes". Also changed "hitbox fixes" section header to "standard move fixes". Seems more appropriate to me.
Let me know if there are any other changes I haven't added.
Thank you

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

@ Tobi_Whatever

Actually Aiming the upb and being as close to them as possible is imperative to determining whether you get them or not and you IF you notice they get out of it more then they should, You can down smash them -> fox trot past them and up almost immediately after you've run past them so that the down smash releases them into Samus as shes throwing out the final kick.

problem isn't hitting with up b if I got the first up b hit, problem is hitting with up b if they DI away after dthrow.
I can't get fast enough to them most of the time, resulting in them airdodging.

 

[pichuthedk]

Well that definitely seems like a problem I'm starting to not bother trying to up b from down b that much anymore unless its certain characters that i know will get murdered by it.
What you can do is try to bait an air dodge and up b almost after its finished.

I don't know about you or anyone else but there are just those moments when you absolutely feel it and know they are gonna get hit by up b, I still prefer to take it safe however have you thought of other ways to set up the up b? maybe grounded/short/Full hop charge laser / b revered laser when players are immobilized is generally the best way to initiate up B.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Well that definitely seems like a problem I'm starting to not bother trying to up b from down b that much anymore unless its certain characters that i know will get murdered by it.
What you can do is try to bait an air dodge and up b almost after its finished.

I don't know about you or anyone else but there are just those moments when you absolutely feel it and know they are gonna get hit by up b, I still prefer to take it safe however have you thought of other ways to set up the up b? maybe grounded/short/Full hop charge laser / b revered laser when players are immobilized is generally the best way to initiate up B.

Yeah, most of the time I do my up b with down throw or down b ground pound. Good idea with the airdodge bait.
I still have to work a lot on my combos anyway.
My biggest problem is that I don't know what to do with short hop nair fast fall. I always get hit or just miss if I try to do something with it.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah, most of the time I do my up b with down throw or down b ground pound. Good idea with the airdodge bait.
I still have to work a lot on my combos anyway.
My biggest problem is that I don't know what to do with short hop nair fast fall. I always get hit or just miss if I try to do something with it.

it's tricky because of it varies depending upon what character they are using, generally I will have a feeling that I didn't space it properly and expect a grab punish.

however I have somehow gotten around this by f-tilting immediately (like spam ) because it hits them during the grab or before it comes out or just their shield which might in turn push them outside of grabbing range.

you also always need to be aware of how the can of Lysol err whip extends out.
@ DeLux

it is possible to miss nairs you would have otherwise gotten because of poor timing and spacing, practice nairing in multimans so you get the feel for hitting in different angles.


fix this /post more when I'm not on a phone xD

 

[DeLux]

Boost Kick shall henceforth be known as shuttle loop.