ZSS Down B kick questions

[V4n1sh]

I'm a newbie ZSS here, and I'm really in the shade with the Down B kick, so I thought I should ask here.

- What moves combo into Down B Kick?
- What uses does it have?
- Where is the spike hitbox on the it?

Thanks for helping!

 

[ぱみゅ]

IMO, Flip Kick deserves a whole guide for its own.

That is if you want only Flip Kick, as there exist Shooting Star Flip Kick and Low Flip both as different forms of Down B's.

 

[Otterz]

I'm a newbie ZSS here, and I'm really in the shade with the Down B kick, so I thought I should ask here.

- What moves combo into Down B Kick?
- What uses does it have?
- Where is the spike hitbox on the it?

Thanks for helping!

The uses? There's a lot, this is my favorite move to be honest. It can be used for recovery, for getting out of combos (Invincible on startup, frame 3-13), for spiking, for killing at high percents, for reseting to neutral, for mixups and maybe more I'm forgetting. Just don't spam it; just like any other good move, spamming never really works out.

The spike hitbox is the tip of her foot when she is kicking.

 

[Metallinatus]

The uses? There's a lot, this is my favorite move to be honest. It can be used for recovery, for getting out of combos (Invincible on startup, frame 3-13), for spiking, for killing at high percents, for reseting to neutral, for mixups and maybe more I'm forgetting. Just don't spam it; just like any other good move, spamming never really works out.

The spike hitbox is the tip of her foot when she is kicking.

It helps landing a lot too.

 

[Equin0x]

Zero Suit Samus' Dspecial, named Flip Jump, is probably one of the most useful single moves in the game. I'll separate the uses I can think of into the different gameplay states.

Disadvantage
--- Combo escape on frame 3. Flip Jump makes the user intangible for 10 frames starting on frame 3. Combine this with the mobility of Flip Jump and you have a reliable way to escape comboes. However, you have to be careful when using it in this way. The intsngibility starfs on frame 3, but if you get on the first or second frames of the move, you'll be interrupted and left without Flip Jump until you hot the ground again. This is very dangerous because not only will you be left without a combo breaker, but without what's probably our best recovery tool. My trick for deciding when to use it is to imagine when a Luigi or Yoshi Nair would interrupt the combo, because those also start on frame 3, so if they would come out, the intangibility would also. Alternatively, frame 3 is also ZSS' airdodge, so if you could airdodge, you could Flip Jump.
--- As I mentioned in the combo breaker paragraph, Flip Jump is probably our best recovery tool. The intangibility makes it useful for bypassing hitboxes inbetween ZSS and the stage. The apex of the flip allows for decent vertical recovery, but if you can't get to or over the ledge by the apex, you won't get very far without then using Boost Kick or a tether. The important aspects of Flip Jump for recovery are its horizontal movement and wall jumping. A maximum horizontal distance Flip Jump (I believe) travels about 1/2 across Final Destination. The wall jump of Flip Jump is incredibly useful on FD, Battlefield, or any omega stage with slanted walls because, if you hold up when the first Flip Jump encounters any wall, even if you wouldn't normally be able to wall jump off of it, a second Flip Jump is started which doubles the vertical recovery of the move while hugging the underside of stages like Battlefield and FD, making a low recovery on those stages very effective.
--- In a situation where you are hanging onto the ledge and the opponent is standing a safe but pressure-applying distance away, an effective yet dangerous mixup is to Flip Jump from the ledge and catch the opponent off-guard. If you don't get blocked, the opponent will be buried and suseptible to followups, but if you do get blocked you'll be in an even worse position than hanging on the ledge.
--- Trying to land against certain characters can be a chore, even for ZSS. Flip Jump can be used similarly to momentum reversing B-Reverse Paralyzer Shots to bait out landing coverage and then escape by Flip Jumping away and landing. As long as you have a Flip Jump, you're almost guaranteed a landing because any committed landing coverage before Flip jump can be Flip Jumped away from, and if they stand away in anticipation of the Flip Jump, you can safely cover your regular landing without even using Flip Jump.

Neutral
--- Using any option too often or predictably is dangerous, and Flip Jump is no exception. If you're trapped on the ledge or without stage control, the intangibility and mobility of Flip Jump can be used in response to a thrown out attack to reverse the situation and land behind your opponent, granting stage control to you. I have to stress being predictable about this, however. I would also hesitate to use it on large characters with long-lasting hitboxes, because you could end up phantom footstooling them (when they are in an un-footstoolable state, such as in an attack) and going into the vulnerable state without burying them.
--- On stages with platforms, Flip Jump will cause you to automatically fall through platforms for an obnoxious amount of time, but if you activate the Flip Jump Kick and land on the edge of a platform so tha you slide off of it, you'll cancel the lag of the kick's landing and fall with no lag, creating a fantastic movement option that leads immediately into any other option. You can choose to cover a landing with Nair or Bair, or Flip Jump again for even more movement and mindgames in the neutral.

Advantage
--- I'm fully aware that any move kills eventually, and that ZSS has plenty of other kill options, but I feel that three stand out above the rest by far because they work so well witht he rest of ZSS' toolset. These three primary kill options are Boost Kick, Flip Jump Kick, and Bair.
--- You asked what moves combo into Flip Jump Kick, and the list is very long. Obviously Paralyzer Shot and Dsmash combo into Flip Jump Kick because of the stun, but Dsmash can be used even more effectively at any % above about 30%. Dsmash, unlike Paralyzer Shot, actually has knockback and sends the recipient at 60 degree angle. With that angle and the time granted to ZSS by the stun, she can follow up Dsmash with just about any move. The optimal followup at mid to high %s whent he knockback from Dsmash would send them offstage is to time and position Flip Jump Kick to spike (the spike hitbox is as the tip of ZSS' foot, but is very disjointed) the opponent down and end their stock early. At higher %s, Flip Jump Kick can be used even without the spike to kill them off of the side. I've spent an awful lot of time in the lab with Nair and Flip Jump Kick, and I con confirm that every character can be true comboed into Flip Jump Kick with Nair at some 20+% window. (If there's enough demand I will share those % windows with the forums. ) I have also seen the back hit of Nair combo into it and I have comboed late uair into a double-jump Bair into a Flip Jump Kick on a Robin, so Bair > Flip Jump Kick is possible. One trick that works for me on opponents that habitually tech in place is Ftilt > they tech in place > Flip Jump Kick and it's very satisfying for me and demoralizing for them. One mixup that I think was popularized by @VaBengal was to feign the Uair > Uair > Boost Kick combo to bait an airdodge and then Flip Jump Kick them instead. Basically anything can combo into Flip Jump Kick, you just have to be aware and creative.
--- Flip Jump Kick is probably our best edge/ledgeguarding tool in addition to our best recovery tool. In tandem with Paralyzer Shot, Flip jump becomes an extremely effective killswitch. If you time Paralyzer Shot correctly, the edgeguarded will be forced to recover high, which you can react to, get hit, after which you can spike them, or airdodge and recover low. If they airdodge and recover low, the killswitch is ready. Because the Flip Jump Kick hitbox is disjointed and so long-lasting, you can effectively cover the ledge in a spiking hitbox. You can do this in two ways. You can either run off of the stage and Flip Jump backwards and then kick towards the ledge or Flip Jump off of the stage and kick towards the ledge. Option one is effective on stages with thin ledges such as the infamous Battlefield or Smashville because the spiking hitbox is large enough to extend through the ledge. However, this is easier to mistime because doing it too early results in you landing and losing the hitbox. Option two is effective on any stage and is easier to time because the hitbox lasts for longer, but missing the window results in you being offstage without Flip Jump, which is a very bad position. More information on this can be found in @Tuen 's thread here.
--- Another neat trick involving Flip Jump is a frametrap with Bair. The trick is to Flip Jump at a recovering opponent and see what they do. It's a little long to explain, so I'll just link another of @Tuen 's threads here.

Well, that's all I've got at the moment. Anybody with anything else can also comment. I hope I did a good job of explaining.

 

[V4n1sh]

I've spent an awful lot of time in the lab with Nair and Flip Jump Kick, and I con confirm that every character can be true comboed into Flip Jump Kick with Nair at some 20+% window. (If there's enough demand I will share those % windows with the forums. )
Well, that's all I've got at the moment. Anybody with anything else can also comment. I hope I did a good job of explaining.

Thank you, it was an excellent explanation! It would also be nice to share the % windows with the forum and advance the meta more!

 

[Davo dopo]

Zero Suit Samus' Dspecial, named Flip Jump, is probably one of the most useful single moves in the game. I'll separate the uses I can think of into the different gameplay states.

Disadvantage
--- Combo escape on frame 3. Flip Jump makes the user intangible for 10 frames starting on frame 3. Combine this with the mobility of Flip Jump and you have a reliable way to escape comboes. However, you have to be careful when using it in this way. The intsngibility starfs on frame 3, but if you get on the first or second frames of the move, you'll be interrupted and left without Flip Jump until you hot the ground again. This is very dangerous because not only will you be left without a combo breaker, but without what's probably our best recovery tool. My trick for deciding when to use it is to imagine when a Luigi or Yoshi Nair would interrupt the combo, because those also start on frame 3, so if they would come out, the intangibility would also. Alternatively, frame 3 is also ZSS' airdodge, so if you could airdodge, you could Flip Jump.
--- As I mentioned in the combo breaker paragraph, Flip Jump is probably our best recovery tool. The intangibility makes it useful for bypassing hitboxes inbetween ZSS and the stage. The apex of the flip allows for decent vertical recovery, but if you can't get to or over the ledge by the apex, you won't get very far without then using Boost Kick or a tether. The important aspects of Flip Jump for recovery are its horizontal movement and wall jumping. A maximum horizontal distance Flip Jump (I believe) travels about 1/2 across Final Destination. The wall jump of Flip Jump is incredibly useful on FD, Battlefield, or any omega stage with slanted walls because, if you hold up when the first Flip Jump encounters any wall, even if you wouldn't normally be able to wall jump off of it, a second Flip Jump is started which doubles the vertical recovery of the move while hugging the underside of stages like Battlefield and FD, making a low recovery on those stages very effective.
--- In a situation where you are hanging onto the ledge and the opponent is standing a safe but pressure-applying distance away, an effective yet dangerous mixup is to Flip Jump from the ledge and catch the opponent off-guard. If you don't get blocked, the opponent will be buried and suseptible to followups, but if you do get blocked you'll be in an even worse position than hanging on the ledge.
--- Trying to land against certain characters can be a chore, even for ZSS. Flip Jump can be used similarly to momentum reversing B-Reverse Paralyzer Shots to bait out landing coverage and then escape by Flip Jumping away and landing. As long as you have a Flip Jump, you're almost guaranteed a landing because any committed landing coverage before Flip jump can be Flip Jumped away from, and if they stand away in anticipation of the Flip Jump, you can safely cover your regular landing without even using Flip Jump.

Neutral
--- Using any option too often or predictably is dangerous, and Flip Jump is no exception. If you're trapped on the ledge or without stage control, the intangibility and mobility of Flip Jump can be used in response to a thrown out attack to reverse the situation and land behind your opponent, granting stage control to you. I have to stress being predictable about this, however. I would also hesitate to use it on large characters with long-lasting hitboxes, because you could end up phantom footstooling them (when they are in an un-footstoolable state, such as in an attack) and going into the vulnerable state without burying them.
--- On stages with platforms, Flip Jump will cause you to automatically fall through platforms for an obnoxious amount of time, but if you activate the Flip Jump Kick and land on the edge of a platform so tha you slide off of it, you'll cancel the lag of the kick's landing and fall with no lag, creating a fantastic movement option that leads immediately into any other option. You can choose to cover a landing with Nair or Bair, or Flip Jump again for even more movement and mindgames in the neutral.

Advantage
--- I'm fully aware that any move kills eventually, and that ZSS has plenty of other kill options, but I feel that three stand out above the rest by far because they work so well witht he rest of ZSS' toolset. These three primary kill options are Boost Kick, Flip Jump Kick, and Bair.
--- You asked what moves combo into Flip Jump Kick, and the list is very long. Obviously Paralyzer Shot and Dsmash combo into Flip Jump Kick because of the stun, but Dsmash can be used even more effectively at any % above about 30%. Dsmash, unlike Paralyzer Shot, actually has knockback and sends the recipient at 60 degree angle. With that angle and the time granted to ZSS by the stun, she can follow up Dsmash with just about any move. The optimal followup at mid to high %s whent he knockback from Dsmash would send them offstage is to time and position Flip Jump Kick to spike (the spike hitbox is as the tip of ZSS' foot, but is very disjointed) the opponent down and end their stock early. At higher %s, Flip Jump Kick can be used even without the spike to kill them off of the side. I've spent an awful lot of time in the lab with Nair and Flip Jump Kick, and I con confirm that every character can be true comboed into Flip Jump Kick with Nair at some 20+% window. (If there's enough demand I will share those % windows with the forums. ) I have also seen the back hit of Nair combo into it and I have comboed late uair into a double-jump Bair into a Flip Jump Kick on a Robin, so Bair > Flip Jump Kick is possible. One trick that works for me on opponents that habitually tech in place is Ftilt > they tech in place > Flip Jump Kick and it's very satisfying for me and demoralizing for them. One mixup that I think was popularized by @VaBengal was to feign the Uair > Uair > Boost Kick combo to bait an airdodge and then Flip Jump Kick them instead. Basically anything can combo into Flip Jump Kick, you just have to be aware and creative.
--- Flip Jump Kick is probably our best edge/ledgeguarding tool in addition to our best recovery tool. In tandem with Paralyzer Shot, Flip jump becomes an extremely effective killswitch. If you time Paralyzer Shot correctly, the edgeguarded will be forced to recover high, which you can react to, get hit, after which you can spike them, or airdodge and recover low. If they airdodge and recover low, the killswitch is ready. Because the Flip Jump Kick hitbox is disjointed and so long-lasting, you can effectively cover the ledge in a spiking hitbox. You can do this in two ways. You can either run off of the stage and Flip Jump backwards and then kick towards the ledge or Flip Jump off of the stage and kick towards the ledge. Option one is effective on stages with thin ledges such as the infamous Battlefield or Smashville because the spiking hitbox is large enough to extend through the ledge. However, this is easier to mistime because doing it too early results in you landing and losing the hitbox. Option two is effective on any stage and is easier to time because the hitbox lasts for longer, but missing the window results in you being offstage without Flip Jump, which is a very bad position. More information on this can be found in @Tuen 's thread here.
--- Another neat trick involving Flip Jump is a frametrap with Bair. The trick is to Flip Jump at a recovering opponent and see what they do. It's a little long to explain, so I'll just link another of @Tuen 's threads here.

Well, that's all I've got at the moment. Anybody with anything else can also comment. I hope I did a good job of explaining.

What he

The uses? There's a lot, this is my favorite move to be honest. It can be used for recovery, for getting out of combos (Invincible on startup, frame 3-13), for spiking, for killing at high percents, for reseting to neutral, for mixups and maybe more I'm forgetting. Just don't spam it; just like any other good move, spamming never really works out.

The spike hitbox is the tip of her foot when she is kicking.

Zero Suit Samus' Dspecial, named Flip Jump, is probably one of the most useful single moves in the game. I'll separate the uses I can think of into the different gameplay states.

Disadvantage
--- Combo escape on frame 3. Flip Jump makes the user intangible for 10 frames starting on frame 3. Combine this with the mobility of Flip Jump and you have a reliable way to escape comboes. However, you have to be careful when using it in this way. The intsngibility starfs on frame 3, but if you get on the first or second frames of the move, you'll be interrupted and left without Flip Jump until you hot the ground again. This is very dangerous because not only will you be left without a combo breaker, but without what's probably our best recovery tool. My trick for deciding when to use it is to imagine when a Luigi or Yoshi Nair would interrupt the combo, because those also start on frame 3, so if they would come out, the intangibility would also. Alternatively, frame 3 is also ZSS' airdodge, so if you could airdodge, you could Flip Jump.
--- As I mentioned in the combo breaker paragraph, Flip Jump is probably our best recovery tool. The intangibility makes it useful for bypassing hitboxes inbetween ZSS and the stage. The apex of the flip allows for decent vertical recovery, but if you can't get to or over the ledge by the apex, you won't get very far without then using Boost Kick or a tether. The important aspects of Flip Jump for recovery are its horizontal movement and wall jumping. A maximum horizontal distance Flip Jump (I believe) travels about 1/2 across Final Destination. The wall jump of Flip Jump is incredibly useful on FD, Battlefield, or any omega stage with slanted walls because, if you hold up when the first Flip Jump encounters any wall, even if you wouldn't normally be able to wall jump off of it, a second Flip Jump is started which doubles the vertical recovery of the move while hugging the underside of stages like Battlefield and FD, making a low recovery on those stages very effective.
--- In a situation where you are hanging onto the ledge and the opponent is standing a safe but pressure-applying distance away, an effective yet dangerous mixup is to Flip Jump from the ledge and catch the opponent off-guard. If you don't get blocked, the opponent will be buried and suseptible to followups, but if you do get blocked you'll be in an even worse position than hanging on the ledge.
--- Trying to land against certain characters can be a chore, even for ZSS. Flip Jump can be used similarly to momentum reversing B-Reverse Paralyzer Shots to bait out landing coverage and then escape by Flip Jumping away and landing. As long as you have a Flip Jump, you're almost guaranteed a landing because any committed landing coverage before Flip jump can be Flip Jumped away from, and if they stand away in anticipation of the Flip Jump, you can safely cover your regular landing without even using Flip Jump.

Neutral
--- Using any option too often or predictably is dangerous, and Flip Jump is no exception. If you're trapped on the ledge or without stage control, the intangibility and mobility of Flip Jump can be used in response to a thrown out attack to reverse the situation and land behind your opponent, granting stage control to you. I have to stress being predictable about this, however. I would also hesitate to use it on large characters with long-lasting hitboxes, because you could end up phantom footstooling them (when they are in an un-footstoolable state, such as in an attack) and going into the vulnerable state without burying them.
--- On stages with platforms, Flip Jump will cause you to automatically fall through platforms for an obnoxious amount of time, but if you activate the Flip Jump Kick and land on the edge of a platform so tha you slide off of it, you'll cancel the lag of the kick's landing and fall with no lag, creating a fantastic movement option that leads immediately into any other option. You can choose to cover a landing with Nair or Bair, or Flip Jump again for even more movement and mindgames in the neutral.

Advantage
--- I'm fully aware that any move kills eventually, and that ZSS has plenty of other kill options, but I feel that three stand out above the rest by far because they work so well witht he rest of ZSS' toolset. These three primary kill options are Boost Kick, Flip Jump Kick, and Bair.
--- You asked what moves combo into Flip Jump Kick, and the list is very long. Obviously Paralyzer Shot and Dsmash combo into Flip Jump Kick because of the stun, but Dsmash can be used even more effectively at any % above about 30%. Dsmash, unlike Paralyzer Shot, actually has knockback and sends the recipient at 60 degree angle. With that angle and the time granted to ZSS by the stun, she can follow up Dsmash with just about any move. The optimal followup at mid to high %s whent he knockback from Dsmash would send them offstage is to time and position Flip Jump Kick to spike (the spike hitbox is as the tip of ZSS' foot, but is very disjointed) the opponent down and end their stock early. At higher %s, Flip Jump Kick can be used even without the spike to kill them off of the side. I've spent an awful lot of time in the lab with Nair and Flip Jump Kick, and I con confirm that every character can be true comboed into Flip Jump Kick with Nair at some 20+% window. (If there's enough demand I will share those % windows with the forums. ) I have also seen the back hit of Nair combo into it and I have comboed late uair into a double-jump Bair into a Flip Jump Kick on a Robin, so Bair > Flip Jump Kick is possible. One trick that works for me on opponents that habitually tech in place is Ftilt > they tech in place > Flip Jump Kick and it's very satisfying for me and demoralizing for them. One mixup that I think was popularized by @VaBengal was to feign the Uair > Uair > Boost Kick combo to bait an airdodge and then Flip Jump Kick them instead. Basically anything can combo into Flip Jump Kick, you just have to be aware and creative.
--- Flip Jump Kick is probably our best edge/ledgeguarding tool in addition to our best recovery tool. In tandem with Paralyzer Shot, Flip jump becomes an extremely effective killswitch. If you time Paralyzer Shot correctly, the edgeguarded will be forced to recover high, which you can react to, get hit, after which you can spike them, or airdodge and recover low. If they airdodge and recover low, the killswitch is ready. Because the Flip Jump Kick hitbox is disjointed and so long-lasting, you can effectively cover the ledge in a spiking hitbox. You can do this in two ways. You can either run off of the stage and Flip Jump backwards and then kick towards the ledge or Flip Jump off of the stage and kick towards the ledge. Option one is effective on stages with thin ledges such as the infamous Battlefield or Smashville because the spiking hitbox is large enough to extend through the ledge. However, this is easier to mistime because doing it too early results in you landing and losing the hitbox. Option two is effective on any stage and is easier to time because the hitbox lasts for longer, but missing the window results in you being offstage without Flip Jump, which is a very bad position. More information on this can be found in @Tuen 's thread here.
--- Another neat trick involving Flip Jump is a frametrap with Bair. The trick is to Flip Jump at a recovering opponent and see what they do. It's a little long to explain, so I'll just link another of @Tuen 's threads here.

Well, that's all I've got at the moment. Anybody with anything else can also comment. I hope I did a good job of explaining.

What're some good moves of zss to follow up when you bury a character with flip jump? I have a hard time with it because the character is usually buried at an unfavorable height for follow ups. What's a sure fired way to get boost kick to work when the character is buried?

 

[Dadd?]

What he




What're some good moves of zss to follow up when you bury a character with flip jump? I have a hard time with it because the character is usually buried at an unfavorable height for follow ups. What's a sure fired way to get boost kick to work when the character is buried?

fast fall wave land always works for me at kill percent, even against the toughest mashers