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2.B.A. MASTER: The New PT Video Thread

Myollnir

Smash Ace
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
943
Location
Paris, France
@Rizen :
Two major issues :
- Don't spam smash attacks.
- When you're shielding and you're feelking pressured, you often roll. That's a bad habit, get rid of it. Too much spotdodges too.
Also :
Don't Stale your DThrow with Squirtle.
Use Bullet Seed only when you're sure it's gonna hit.
@3:30, first match. Why didn't you switch? Charizard is not the best option at low % against Sheik... But he can stock tank since Sheik is kinda weak when it comes to killing.

You need to have more PT experience, but you've made some progress. Keep up the good work! :)

Last, but not least, play safer.

I can't really say more, I don't like wifi matches.


@Unsound :
Interesting Ivysaur.
You lack some experience with PT and at brawl in general though.
Get rid of that roll habit.
Keep playing PT, I'm sure you can make huge progress quickly. :p
 

Unsound_Shinobi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88
Location
New Mexico
Thank you very much, I've been trying to stop rolling for a while, it's something I do with everyone but Sonic, and not usually squirtle I don't think. May I ask how it was interesting? I'll be trying out PT in a week at a tourney so I'll try and have a good PT by then lots of practice though
 

CoonTail

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
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Location
Long Island, NY
Right off the bat at 2:06 if you had used Waterfall with Squirtle you would have hit him causing Diddy to lose the momentum slowdown on the Up-b.

Woulda resulted in him dying.
 

CoonTail

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,554
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Long Island, NY
Ok here we go Luis

At 0:21 if you had insta-tossed that banana instead of just grabbing it you would have tripped Diddy and not gotten gimped immediately afterwords.

At 0:46 I feel if you chose to pivot grab instead of U-smash out of shield that a D-throw/f-throw may have killed since both were fresh and Zard was un-fatigued.

At 1:04 I just had to state how clean and well played that recovery was, I surely thought you would have caught some % or even got gimped.

At 1:21 you got baited to attempt and steal a banana and at 1:26 if you had chose to F-tilt after the F-air it would have been a free f-tilt or jab lock after the inital one.

At 1:51 you chased him after he went below the stage and almost died for it, seemed a little overly risky figuring there was not much to gain since he was down their first.

1:56-1:58 Hysterical and proper use of withdraw lol

At 2:01 after you missed the first waterfall gimp, he gave you another opportunity for it at 2:06 when you water-gunned him offstage!!! Again at 2:15, well you see my point but you need to start using that to gimp Diddy since there really isn't much he can do to stop it, especially on RC.

At 2:55 that was so odd it seemed like Vine whip gave you no vertical momentum AT ALL, that's not always the case right?

I'll critique match 2 tomorrow but I saw in the first 30 seconds a huge missed opportunity for Bullet-seed.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
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^2 Stocked him; you live forever! Nice work! I should watch more of these to see how PT is suppose to play. It must be nice having a brother who's good to practice with. Do you play wifi?
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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^2 Stocked him; you live forever! Nice work! I should watch more of these to see how PT is suppose to play. It must be nice having a brother who's good to practice with. Do you play wifi?
It is; we help each other level up on a regular basis. I don't play WiFi, partly because my connection is absolutely awful at home.

I need some help with this MU. I know there are a lot of things im doing wrong when i play a snake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdPs8MbMBzM
The first stock was...okay...You have to really be careful about when you Bullet Seed, since a shielded one gets you F-Smashed at worst. Razor Leaf is good, but if you do it while close to him, you're gonna get F-Tilted (or U-Tilted, like how you lose your first stock). It's worth noting that Ivysaur Up-B doesn't really work in the way you used it; it's easily reacted to, so you have to use it when the opponent is jumping up into it or is in the middle of an uncancelable animation. Snake could've just fastfall airdodged and punished you.

If you're gonna N-Air his shield, make absolutely sure you land behind him so you can play the 50/50 game of, "Will I Bullet Seed or shield/spotdodge/roll?" I don't recommend regularly putting yourself in that position, but, at least you stand a chance of not getting punished by grab/F-Tilt. Also, you can't harass Snake with N-Air by going through the platform--You will get U-Tilted unless you shield poke.

Should've kept poking with Charizard U-Tilt once you landed the first one. That move is wonderfully safe to poke people above you with.

DO NOT stay in your shield next to Snake--You WILL get grabbed, which is an awful position to be put in, especially as Charizard.

Try not to get any higher than shorthop height with Charizard. If you're getting on the platform, run off the side or pass through the platform, rather than jumping off and making it especially easy to juggle you. Charizard is much better at approaching from close to the ground.

DON'T SWITCH OFF OF SQUIRTLE. YOU WERE DOING PRETTY WELL, and he was at the point where a stray F-Air or grenade explosion would've killed him. With Ivysaur, once you're F-Tilted, it's really easy for him to continue to pressure you with more F-Tilts and grenades, and while Ivysaur is good at dealing damage to Snake, it's quite hard for her to get the KO. Against Ivysaur, Snake just has to mindlessly F-Tilt and DACUS away when he feels somewhat threatened. He actually has to think against Squirtle.

You had multiple opportunities to switch to Charizard, as well, who is better at getting KOs, and wouldn't have had stale throws. Should've taken the chance.

Don't spotdodge against Snake nearly as often as you do at the start of the second match. That's how dumb stuff like F-Tilt 1 -> full F-Tilt happens, and it's really easy to get grabbed. You -cannot- rely on Bullet Seed to get you your damage. It's a useful tool, but, when you get predictable, it'll get you manhandled. Spotdodging in general is bad as Ivysaur, because the opponent has little to fear from you afterward. If they see Bullet Seed coming, it's easy to (S)DI the first hit and punish you. If you D-Tilt (your only other fast offensive option), they take little damage, and they can actually (S)DI the same way, avoid the second hit, and punish you. Just stop spotdodging as an approach tool--It does not work with Ivysaur against knowledgeable players.

Ivysaur N-Air and B-Air are both pretty good options out of shield, and they don't leave you open if the opponent shields. Keep that in mind.

U-Tilt (and to a lesser extend, U-Smash) is excellent for poking people through platforms safely. Do it.

You have to use Flamethrower to space against Snake, or he will just walk up to you and do whatever he wants. It also stops him from pelting you with grenades. It's safe. No reason not to do it.

When opponents try to land on the stage from above, you can shorthop N-Air to cover multiple options at once. You will outrange most aerials, and the hitbox stays out long enough to punish an airdodge to the ground.

When you get D-Thrown by Snake, you always seem to wait for a second and then do a get-up attack. That's really predictable. I know Charizard's options are few there, but, just pressing Forward or Up can throw him off, too. You have to mix it up.

Squirtle F-Tilt is a safer poke than Jab. When you're just trying to get him out of neutral position, that's your best bet.

Both games show that you don't know when D-Throw is supposed to KO Snake. Get a better feel for it; I would recommend waiting until he's at 160+% to KO with it in this matchup, because if you call it incorrectly, your most reliable KO move becomes much weaker, and that's not something you can afford when its only real function is to KO.

You started to just let Snake do whatever he wanted in the second match. Harass him with projectiles and safer moves. Move around him and see how he responds. PT has to get Snake's feet off the ground if he wants any hope of dealing real damage.

Critique please?
vs Zelda/Sheik:
http://youtu.be/ouz-oHUMTgE
I don't know this MU. SDing with Ivy sealed my doom :( . I keep forgetting PT can't use Smashes like my other characters but I did some good things too :/ .
Yes, knowing what moves are reliable and which are not is imperative to being efficient with the character. Imagine if you were playing a Marth--Every time you whiff a Smash, you get grab-release chaingrabbed -> D-Air/F-Smash at the edge of the stage and die at, like, 50%. Smashes should never be on your mind as Squirtle unless the opponent is on the ledge, and even then, it is only a passing thought. Even if you hit with a Smash attack or D-Throw below 100%, you will do damage comparable to a couple pummels and a throw, and now a KO move is stale. Better that you stop Smashing altogether, I think.

Stop approaching with fullhop aerials altogether. All that does it give the opponent time to get into position to defend against it before you come down. It also guarantees that you have landing lag, since your move is out when you land, making you vulnerable. Your aerial approaches should be shorthop immediate aerials, since they have to guess whether or not you're trying to grab them or poke them, and because they end before you hit the ground. Shellshift B-Air is pretty safe and can be difficult to see coming.

Your moves don't seem to have a sense of purpose. Remember, while you're trying to KO your opponent, they'll do their best to prevent you, and Sheik is a character with lots of quick moves. Stick to tilt pokes, Jabs, and grabs, so that she doesn't keep beating you by virtue of just doing faster moves. They don't deal as much damage, but they're reliable, safe, and they put the opponent in a position where they have to worry about your approaches, since they don't have their full moveset when you put them in the air. Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't particularly good at approaching in a neutral position, so you have to disrupt them with certain moves before you can do it safely. Sheik is much more vulnerable in the air, because of her bad horizontal aerial mobility, so U-Throw should be your throw of choice to try and juggle.

Running up to an opponent and just shielding is really useful to understand how they want to defend against you. Some players like to be defensive and roll/spotdodge. Others would rather throw out a poke or Smash to get you away from them. Either way, once you learn their habits, you can take advantage of them. They like to roll away? Just keep running forward instead of shielding when you get close. They keep attacking? Shield and punish. Stuff like that helps you destroy low-to-mid-level players without really putting yourself at risk.

Ivysaur wants to combo with N-Air or poke with B-Air--Try not to land with U-Air unless you're trying to push someone off a platform or get a KO.

Almost any time a Dash Attack seems like a good idea, doing Rock Smash straight out of a run will be better in every single way. It's safer, deals more damage, can still damage an opponent if they stick an attack out, and the attack frames last much longer.

Quit F-Smashing as Charizard until the opponent is at 80+%, and you should still only do it when you think you'll beat their spacing or spotdodge, rather than as a standalone attack. U-Smash is awesome as Charizard, and I fully condone using it the way you're using all the unsafe Smashes, but, give the rest a break.

You don't seem to understand how important keeping your character safe is. If you can't do that, a smart player will demolish you for it.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Thanks for the in depth critique, Reflex :) . I'm terrible with PT's play style but it's good experience to understand the pokemon and other characters better.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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Here are a few games of myself against my older brother's Snake--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZoU4-JHTo

Does it seem like im being to aggressive or is it just me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FST85wKvg5E
It's not that you're being too aggressive--You just don't seem to be trying to maintain spacing at all. Mario has more general mobility than you, but your greater range should help balance things out. You didn't start using Ivysaur B-Air to stuff his approaches until right before he KO'd you. Bullet Seed is not a reliable approach, and in order for it to be even somewhat useful, you'd need to weaken his shield with aerials and tilts first. Also, a lot of Mario's moveset is quite fast, and most of our aerials don't truly combo at low percents, so you have to give him some space after landing many moves at 0%.

Your entire Charizard stock consisted of standing in place while Mario did whatever the hell he wanted. In that, U-Smash out-of-shield works especially well against Mario, since he doesn't have much range to work with. Your run speed is almost identical to Meta Knight's. Your B-Air outranges all of his moves. You have to give him something else to think about, or he can just do safe moves that you can't punish until your shield is weak. Your choice of moves should not just be used in an attempt to deal immediate damage. When you move around, the opponent has to think about all the ways your attack range has changed, so it's much easier to throw off his spacing. Moves that were out of range before might not be now, and having to react to you might cause him to freeze up or panic, even a little. You got almost all your damage by just sitting there and shieldgrabbing, something that you should never get by standing perfectly still unless you're, like, Olimar. tl;dr--Figure out what's safe even outside of as a reaction/counterattack, and start proactively using them.

As Squirtle, retreating B-Air and well-spaced F-Tilt should be how you start pretty much anything. Mario doesn't usually have the range to compete with them (especially F-Tilt). When juggling, it's almost always best to start attempting to juggle by getting immediately below them and using a U-Air. It's disjointed, hits them up for more juggling, and ends very quickly, so you can still punish airdodges afterward if that's how they react.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo6300fRKKE

His name is Tosshi (Tos shi)

I really need to get back into PT. He's lacking so much right now because of my focus on SRT with Pika.
Unless you're absolutely sure it's gonna hit, the only use for approaching Charizard F-Air while the opponent is on the stage is for canceling out projectiles. Think about using RAR B-Air instead.

You keep ending up deep in Luigi's frames, which is a terrible place to be. He only needs to get lucky with a spotdodge once to KO you at as low as 40%. Charizard should stick with Flamethrower, jumping Rock Smash, B-Air, well-spaced standing/pivot grab, and N-Air (to deal with forward roll). Squirtle should stick with F-Tilt, retreating B-Air, and an occasional attempt to get Luigi into the air (probably by grabbing). It's his responsibility to approach you, not the other way around. You're just playing into his hands when you actively try to start stuff.

Work on your general spacing with the moves I mentioned earlier--After he shields, Luigi shouldn't be able to land anything outside of a rare N-Air or B-Air on you.
 

Rizen

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TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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I'll watch those when I'm not uploading.

Critique please?
I feel like my spacing and attack choices were better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmNFzOrYv4g&list=UUBlc1aYEJlv6Kcq6gbC1K7w&index=1&feature=plcp

I have trouble spacing Squirt vs characters with better reach and good speed.
If you see DK take to the air, you shouldn't keep Flamethrower out for any longer than you need to. It's great in short bursts, but DK can jump over it and punish you hard.

If DK lands behind you with his B-Air, you can safely B-Air out-of-shield on reaction as Charizard. If he's doing ambiguous cross-ups, U-Tilt and N-Air are both pretty safe ways to deal with it.

You probably shouldn't go for F-Smash when DK is at 170+%. You have safer pokes that do the job just fine at that point.

Not sure why you would switch to Squirtle. Charizard was working just fine. Charizard doesn't struggle to rack up damage on opponents even with fatigue, and it doesn't matter how weak you might be if the opponent can't land hits anyway.

Don't U-Smash as Squirtle when the opponent is at low percents. Unless you're punishing a huge mistake and you know it will KO, you shouldn't be using it at all.

If you land a B-Air right when you hit the ground and the opponent, you can combo it into Jab.

Don't ever D-Throw unless you know it will KO the opponent or you're trying to switch. You never want to stale a move that only has the purpose of KO'ing opponents.

Running up to the opponent and shielding doesn't work especially well with Squirtle against Donkey Kong unless you've practice in-shield SDI. His pokes are so good. You're better off mindlessly airdodging and trying to poke back instead.

Not sure why you switched off of Ivysaur. I would recommend trying to learn that matchup, as it's in our favor, and even if you died, you'd have your Charizard to back you up in the last stock.

Don't D-Throw as Charizard unless you know it will KO. Either U-Throw and attempt to juggle or B-Throw and attempt to pressure him.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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^Nice work!
You're one of those players who has perfect control over their characters and know the best options for whatever scenario 'instinctively'.

Thanks for the critique :) .
 

Myollnir

Smash Ace
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
943
Location
Paris, France
Wow, amazing set, I'm impressed. :)

I enjoy watching your Wario as well.

Btw, it's not easy to time, but you can UTilt Falco's Illusion and rack up damage very quickly then.

I like how you crouched on YI's slope, it reminded me of your thread. :p
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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5:03 Reflex uses a hacker cyber elf! (MMZero series)
Good stuff. At 5:40 when Ivy's tether failed, why was that? I've had that kill me too; was it barely too far? Sometimes Link's tether fails to grab the edge for no reason. Does that happen to Ivy?
What pokemon can DDD CG?
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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Ivysaur was too far away to tether to the stage. I was barely in range when I used the Up-B, but the upward movement on start-up pushed me out of range, which is why Ivysaur still tried to grab it and failed to do so.

Dedede cannot chaingrab Squirtle, but his bad tech rolls and general options from a pratfall are awful, so it's easy for him to follow up with another grab if he's good at keeping pressure.

Dedede can chaingrab Ivysaur and Charizard, and he gets a guaranteed D-Tilt at the edge of the stage against both of them.
 

T-block

B2B TST
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Ivysaur was too far away to tether to the stage. I was barely in range when I used the Up-B, but the upward movement on start-up pushed me out of range, which is why Ivysaur still tried to grab it and failed to do so.

Dedede cannot chaingrab Squirtle, but his bad tech rolls and general options from a pratfall are awful, so it's easy for him to follow up with another grab if he's good at keeping pressure.

Dedede can chaingrab Ivysaur and Charizard, and he gets a guaranteed D-Tilt at the edge of the stage against both of them.
he also gets guaranteed u-smash on stage on ivy and charizard T.T
 
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