7. Mr. Game & Watch- Sonic Counterpick/Ban discussion

[Kinzer]

You mean more difficult to place? Eh... I dunno about that, don't Grenade explosions literally cover the right/left platforms?

What about a Snake who likes to camp the middle, what do you do then?

...Gah I hate this, those d***ed platforms make a natural fortress for Snake, and by all means you can't let him make one there!

Japes is still a good stage though, because even with that barrier in the middle platform you can attack Snake in ways no other stage I know of can allow you.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Awesome as Japes is against Snake think. How hard is it going to be to approach him?

 

[Umby]

"Let us discuss a stage we have little experience with because it's banned in our region and we never play the stage."

So you're basically having 1 person discuss 1 stage that only that 1 person uses. How is that a discussion? If that person wants to take their own opinion over what's (universally) stated - then by all means do so.

That's kinda strawmanning the situation. It would make sense if it really was 1 stage and 1 person, however there are enough relevant places that allow/experiment with allowing certain stages (or at least discussing their legality) where numerous people could use. What's wrong with archiving information that is relevant/very potentially relevant?

It's wrong to have people with little to no experience trying to discuss something, that's just stupidity

It's not like we're asking a blind man to read a book to us. If someone knows something, they're free to share it. If a number of people don't, it should oblige them to get said experience if they find it valuable, THEN share it. Isn't that the starting point of discussion? Just as well as you can omit information that's invaluable to you, you're free to not say anything on the matter as well.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, I keep only the CP stages, starter/CP and starter stages. You can discuss CP/banned stages but I will not note them.

The discussion is going good, I would like a bit more about where to not take him. I'm going to put Japes as a CP against Snake in the OP. What starter should be your first choice?

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

While those who post may be in a region where PS and GG are banned, I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers in areas where the stages aren't banned.

How about the stages that are universal are talked about first, then end the discussion with the stages that are legal in selective regions?

 

[Jim Morrison]

While those who post may be in a region where PS and GG are banned, I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers in areas where the stages aren't banned.

They have now lurked enough and should post.

How about the stages that are universal are talked about first, then end the discussion with the stages that are legal in selective regions?

This is alright. You can talk about the stages, but in the end I want a solid stage that is legal (CP)

 

[Kinzer]

Final destination should be the best neutral you would want to fight Snake on, however since most people just ban that stage anyway your next best bet would be SV, Susa is right when he says that a moving C4 is not hard to keep track of.

 

[Camalange]

Lets stick to stages we all know everyone here can use. If mr. 3000 wants to CP people to port town thats great. but if the rest of us dont even have that option what good does it do to even talk about it?

This made me lol hard XD

But in all honesty, I agree with Tumby that even if only a few people have access towards certain stages, they should be discussed. Obviously, they should not be top priority discussion, but there's no harm done in bringing it up.

Boku goes to tournaments? I was thinking about that earlier during a SONC'S BROKEN ON WIFI discussion. What IS Boku's offline record?

Boku was at Apex.

Pretty sure he got consistently 3 stocked >_>

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

How about we talk about whatever the hell we want instead of trying to limit each other? If someone has something to say about a stage that isn't legal everywhere it doesn't HURT anything.

 

[Isatis]

No, I keep only the CP stages, starter/CP and starter stages. You can discuss CP/banned stages but I will not note them.

The discussion is going good, I would like a bit more about where to not take him. I'm going to put Japes as a CP against Snake in the OP. What starter should be your first choice?

I would have to agree with Kinzer on FD being the first pick with SV being a close 2nd.

 

[ShadowLink84]

No Yoshi's Island? Its useful in stopping his stage control antics.

 

[da K.I.D.]

yoshis Island and FD are the obvious choices for a starter stage

for starters i would think that most sonics would want to avoid Smashville and lylat. I have a personal preference for smashville so I would go there more often than some. but I think lylat is a very bad stage to play this matchup on.

As far as bans go, I think brinstar is a big one because snake plays to well there, and its very small allowing him to get kills even earlier than normal
I also have a personal preference for Halberd but if you arent really up to date on teh stage you might want to avoid that too because of the hazards and very low ceilings
at least on the first 2 sections, Castle Siege looks like it would also give snake a definite advantage

Delfino actually might be good against snake just because of the size and changing of the stage

 

[Jim Morrison]

How about we talk about whatever the hell we want instead of trying to limit each other? If someone has something to say about a stage that isn't legal everywhere it doesn't HURT anything.

What did I say? You can do that, I will just not mention them in the OP (or maybe a little note)

I think we should round up the Snake discussion, I can gather some data from this. I'll do a write-up when I finish this match.

Next up is Wario.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Just mentioning it cause they were arguing.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I'm probably the only Sonic that takes every character to BF >_>

Pfft, you so got that from me <3

TAKE WARIO TO BATTLEFIELD!!!

 

[memphischains]

nah you take wario to PS2 if its a legal CP

if not you take you're opponents controller and break the b button then go to FD

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I was playing a Wario on BF (his CP) and he was beasting me. Him 2 stocks and low percent and me at 90 on my last stock. Then I channeled PD and ***** him for a glorious 2 minutes until clinching the win. He then called major bull**** and insinuated I was into dudes.

 

[Umby]

I like Rainbow Cruise as a Wario CP. FD and Lylat seem to be the best neutrals.

 

[Kinzer]

Would somebody like to tell me why YI is a good CP/starter against Snake?

I just find iSDR absolutely useless here because Snake has tilts capable of causing earthquakes in China all the way from South America.

As for Wario, I'm not exactly sure where to take him other than Pkmn Stad I. I know a buncha Warios are starting to love to air-plan now, and thanks to it's cosntantly adapting form it will sort of throw them off maybe. Stage boundaries are another plus when somebody the fatman is fat enough to live but floaty enough to get back and still have enough power leftover to give you trouble. As Chains Said Pkmn Stad II seems to be another good choice.

For starter stages FD seems to be your best bet. I don't know how often Warios would ban this stage but if they do it seems to me that SV is your next best option. I don't like BF just because of the boundaries/the way the platforms are set up, it makes it more of a chore to attack Wario while it makes it all the more easier for him to do whatever.

 

[PhantomX]

PS1 PROMOTES camping, so that's not a good idea. You want big stages, b/c you can run faster than Wario can close the distance. On BF it's really anyone's game, Wario pretty much sucks on PS2 (he can't fart AT ALL during the entire wind part). Your best starter is actually most likely YI b/c of the invincible spins. Wario has nothing that can stop them.

 

[Kinzer]

Promotes camping huh?

Aww, alright then, you know more about Wario than I do.

 

[Jim Morrison]

iSDR goes trough bite, but a jab can easily stop SDR in it's tracks. Or a shield. iSDR can not be the only reason that YI is a good stage against a character. What else does he have on YI over Wario?

 

[da K.I.D.]

id say that because of the tilting of the platform, it can at times make for a close range battle, and I think that sonic actually beats wario when hes in close range for an extended period of time

 

[PhantomX]

The platform makes it hard for Wario to approach or mess around with dair or upair... da KID is right to an extent. Sonic wins close range if Wario is above you. On YI it's hard to stay ground level b/c of the iSDR and the big platform always being in the way, so you can land a lot of good hits.

 

[~TBS~]

well, from what it seems, YI is your best bet right? If thats banned, SV and BF are the only other choices.
I just have one thing to say, ban Brinstar. its a huge trap waiting for you if you dont...I played Slikvik here, and it was so close, but still...that stuff is nasty.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Since when do Wario's stay on the ground voluntarily?

 

[JayBee]

lol. turfax. they will be in the air more often.

Maybe halberd?

the platform is a similar situation, to YI, right? the hazards can impede his aerial mobility. im just guessing, so help me out.

 

[PhantomX]

It's easier to stay on the ground against Sonic b/c Fsmash and Bite and grab beat pretty much all of his approaches.

If the Sonic is far enough away from to where he can do a running aerial, I'd prefer to approach on the ground.

 

[Exceladon City]

The only time I've ever seen a Wario voluntarily stay on the ground was to bike camp and even then he was just jumping around the ledge. Campy Wario's are extra gay.

 

[Kinzer]

It seems to be the best way to play Wario though nowadays. :/

 

[PhantomX]

It's the best way to play Wario if you aren't very good with him.

 

[Jim Morrison]

It's easier to stay on the ground against Sonic b/c Fsmash and Bite and grab beat pretty much all of his approaches.

If the Sonic is far enough away from to where he can do a running aerial, I'd prefer to approach on the ground.

This isn't a matchup so I can easily throw out that Sonic is most likely going to bait F-smash, grabs and Bite, as all of these are rather punishable playing as Sonic.

Besides that, I think the Wario discussion is doing fine. PS1 promotes camping, so not a good choice? PS2 could be decent, YI is under discussion, FD would be an OK pick.
Brinstar should be banned, right?
Any other stages you want banned?

 

[PhantomX]

I'm not talking about baiting. Baiting has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm just saying that Wario has safer options vs Sonic on the ground than he does in the air from a distance XD.

Don't take Warios to Brinstar unless you have a death wish.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'd think SH D-airing has far more effect than F-smash or Bite, since it is much, much less punishable.

 

[PhantomX]

Sonic's SH fair comes out faster than it, and we can't do it on reaction b/c of the speed you guys cover ground.

 

[MorphedChaos]

YI, I dunno, but that stage just hates me if I'm playing any character that's not Captain Falcon.

Ban Brinstar, that is Wario's **** stage, and you will be obliterated XD.

If we strike YI, if PS2 isn't banned, go there, otherwise FD might be an alright choice.

If Brinstar is banned, I'd personally do Norfair since I can handle plankers pretty well, but most other Warios will go to Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Umby]

I would have thought Sonic did well vs Wario on RC. Granted, only one Wario has taken me there so far, but I did him in pretty well in that match.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I like playing against Wario's on RC. It was better for me against this one Wario than BF was. Like...way better. And I made the most epic recovery. Y'all shoulda been there. While Wario's air mobility is awesome he's kinda slow at vertical ascension whereas we rock getting around in everyway imaginable.

 

[Jim Morrison]

OK, I'll probably finish the write-up today.
In the meantime, Dedede time.

 

[~TBS~]

Hmm...this is kinda weird. Picking a flat out Stage gives D3 a chaingrab all the way to the edge, but Sonic has more room to work and avoid most of his moves, then punish. uh...Personally, i'd take him to NorfAIR as a CP. D3's aerials are somewhat easier to deal with than those CG's (if you get grabbed). For neutrals, YI is a good choice, but D3 can use his neutral A, and ftilt to stop ISDR. This kinda sucks, because i think that D3 and Sonic operates well on neutrals, but when it comes to banning, i cant think of a stage...

How does D3 do on Japes?