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Are we alone in the universe???

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GrabfestBowser

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That was my point... everywhere we can currently reach we've found nothing yet, so either there is nothing, or they are much much less advanced. Anywhere we CAN'T get to yet is too far for them to get to us.

Luke
 

McFox

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Well, what if aliens were searching for us 125 million years ago. They wouldn't have been able to detect us, because all we had were dinosaurs. It's entirely possible that the planets nearest us (still extremely far away, but close in astrological terms) have life, but not any kind of intelligent life.
 

snex

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if youve ever read a creationist propaganda site (and boy have i read plenty!) you always see mentions of the enormous probabilities that intelligent life will form (that is, throughout the ENTIRE universe). now, i have here a picture taken by the hubble telescope:

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/2004/07/images/n/formats/full_jpg.jpg

each light cluster on that picture is a galaxy. each galaxy contains BILLIONS of stars. this picture also only represents a TINY fraction of the sky (about 3 arcminutes squared). assume that the galaxy concentration throughout the rest of the sky is somewhat similar, and calculate the number of galaxies (and from that the number of stars) that are in the sky. then multiply that number by 2, since galaxies on the other side of the Big Bang origination site cannot be seen by us (their distance from us is so great that their light has not yet had time to reach us). the number of stars you have is probably quite astronomical (somewhere on the order of 10^22 iirc). kind of puts those statistics into perspective, doesnt it?

the odds that earth contains the only life in the universe are virtually zero.
 

GrabfestBowser

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Not sure if Mcfox and my boy Snex are writing those last posts to me, but to reiterate what I wrote in my first post... 1. I ALSO believe that there is tons of life out there 2. I wrote that piece on my physics teacher and specifically was talking about life COMING to our planet. Like this kid was talking about intelligent life coming to our planet, flying saucers, crap like that, and this is when he said that. So basically he was saying what people see... the abduction stories and seeing flying saucers is almost certainly imagination or a hoax.

Again, I believe in this crap... I was just writing down what he said to add to this thread.

Ah thank you.

Luke
 

snex

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luke i actually havent read any of your posts, i just wanted to give the ignant folk out there something to think about.

speaking of which, in my last post i mentioned that the photo taken by hubble was of 3 arcminutes squared of the sky.
to put this into perspective, i calculated that if the hubble took the exact same picture, only directed at the earth, the photo would represent an area of approximately 68.532 miles squared, which is slightly larger than Washington, DC.

another way to look at it: the sun takes up about 0.19634 degrees squared (706 arcminutes squared) of the sky when viewed from the earth. that means that the field of view in the hubble photo was 235.333 times smaller than the sun as it appears from earth.

if we are the only life in the universe, that seems like a whole lotta wasted space. what was god thinking?

edit: math corrections. somebody please check my work.
 

DrumStickz

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Originally posted by snex
luke i actually havent read any of your posts, i just wanted to give the ignant folk out there something to think about.

speaking of which, in my last post i mentioned that the photo taken by hubble was of 3 arcminutes squared of the sky.
to put this into perspective, i calculated that if the hubble took the exact same picture, only directed at the earth, the photo would represent an area of approximately 68.532 miles squared, which is slightly larger than Washington, DC.

another way to look at it: the sun takes up about 0.19634 degrees squared (706 arcminutes squared) of the sky when viewed from the earth. that means that the field of view in the hubble photo was 235.333 times smaller than the sun as it appears from earth.

if we are the only life in the universe, that seems like a whole lotta wasted space. what was god thinking?

edit: math corrections. somebody please check my work.
Well said snex. Well said. With that evidence, there HAS to be other life in the universe.
 

Super Akuma

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Heh

There may or not be other life. I think that it's likely we'll find bacterial life and maybe even complex organisms. However, the only proof of intelligent life is that U.F.O. crap, crop circles, abduction scenarios, cow mutilations and soon, but that can pretty much all be explained by just one phenomena. Overall, there is no reason to think there's intelligent life out there.
 

XDaDePsak

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Re: Heh

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax
there is no reason to think there's intelligent life out there.
Did you not read SNEX's post at all?

Originally posted by snex
the number of stars you have is probably quite astronomical
punny:bee:
 

Bowser87

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Re: Heh

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax
However, the only proof of intelligent life is that U.F.O. crap, crop circles, abduction scenarios, cow mutilations and soon, but that can pretty much all be explained by just one phenomena.
You mean that it was a hoax? 'Cause the first persons who made those crop circles said it had been a hoax. Yet there are still ignorant people talking about that today...
The fact that there is no proof doesn't mean there's no good reason to think there is intelligent life out there. It's almost impossible to have proof. Those crop circles/abductions have nothing to do with this, nobody mentionned them in the topic.
 

snex

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Overall, there is no reason to think there's intelligent life out there.
there is also no reason to think that there isnt. its all a matter of probabilities. the limit on the speed of light will prevent us from ever making any kind of meaningful contact.

lets say im playing d&d. we use 20-sided dice, and when you roll a 20 good things happen. but theres no reason to believe that ill roll a 20, given its 5% probability, so why even bother playing?

duh, because theres no reason to believe i WONT roll a 20. if its possible, it can happen. if its happened once (intelligent life), then theres a good chance itll happen again.
 

DrumStickz

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Originally posted by McFox
What the hel1 are you talking about? What does the existence of aliens have to do with god? This thread WAS for debating whether or not aliens could exist in our universe. Not for debating whether or not god has a plan for you.
I think he meant (creation-wise of course)
that God is the creator and ruler of our universe and has a plan for all the people on this Earth. If God has a plan for us in this world, surely God has created other worlds in this universe with other people that he has a plan for. He rules the Earth, but not just the Earth, but all the other worlds with intelligent life in them. He created many worlds, and in each world there are people who believe in God and people who don't. So he's saying that there is other intelligent life in the universe, and God loves and cares for them too just as much as he cares for us. (Heh I'll bet that in other worlds in the universe people [or whatever intelligent creatures] are arguing over creationism and evolutionism as well.)

Yes I may sound crazy but that's what I think.
 

XDaDePsak

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Originally posted by DrumStickz
Yes I may sound crazy but that's what I think.
I think you're just covering Christianity's tracks. Filling in the pot-holes. Christians tend to be even more far out than the most radical heretic scientist. And for good reason--it's a losing battle for them.
 

DrumStickz

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Originally posted by XDaDePsak
I think you're just covering Christianity's tracks. Filling in the pot-holes. Christians tend to be even more far out than the most radial heretic scientist. And for good reason--it's a losing battle for them.
I don't understand that. Can you explain it in a way that this high-schooler can understand? :confused:
 

XDaDePsak

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Originally posted by DrumStickz
I don't understand that. Can you explain it in a way that this high-schooler can understand? :confused:
"Christianity is a lie"
 

Super Akuma

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Heh

XDaDePsak

Did you not read SNEX's post at all?
Don't have to. Anything said would just be likeley unreasonable conjecture.

Bowser87

You mean that it was a hoax?
No. There are some which are hoaxes, but not all.

'Cause the first persons who made those crop circles said it had been a hoax.
So the crop circles that they were inspired by were made by them. Of course, they probably made those crop circles throughout the world and hundreds of years ago. They must have mad skills.

The fact that there is no proof doesn't mean there's no good reason to think there is intelligent life out there.
Of course it does. The universe being huge and full of planets doesn't mean there's life anywhere near the scope of humanity. We may find some cow-like or dinosaur-like organisms. I think there's a very good chance we'll find critters under Europan ice. However, they aren't the kind of intelligent life I'm talking about.

snex

duh, because theres no reason to believe i WONT roll a 20. if its possible, it can happen. if its happened once (intelligent life), then theres a good chance itll happen again.
That's a pretty flawed comparison. Let's say you have fifty dice with each having a million sides. What are the chances you're going to roll the same number on each die?
 

snex

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That's a pretty flawed comparison. Let's say you have fifty dice with each having a million sides. What are the chances you're going to roll the same number on each die?
if you took dadepsak's advice and read my original two posts, youd see that the number of dice and sides we are talking about in this situation are not as drastic as you think. have you ever been to china? do you believe there are human beings there?
 

BRoomer
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Me personallly I don't care too much about the subject, but I do belive there was other life in the universe. Its some whole big pointless thereory linking back to the bible and crap... I won't waste time explaining.

With the universe so large it is hard to belive that there is absolutly no life out there but then agian why is it so pluasible that it must be there?

Kinda a flip of a coin thing going on... could but might not be, there is so little evidence to prove such (cept crop circles, lol)
 

Bowser87

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Re: Heh

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax
No. There are some which are hoaxes, but not all.
Regarding crop circles, yes, they all are. What other explanation do you have? As for abductions and all the rest, besides, hoaxes, explanations could be: retardedness, drugs, etc.

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax
So the crop circles that they were inspired by were made by them. Of course, they probably made those crop circles throughout the world and hundreds of years ago. They must have mad skills.
It was a hoax the first time, and then more people started doing it. There's no other explanation to this. Nothing else than humans created crop circles.

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax
Of course it does. The universe being huge and full of planets doesn't mean there's life anywhere near the scope of humanity. We may find some cow-like or dinosaur-like organisms. I think there's a very good chance we'll find critters under Europan ice. However, they aren't the kind of intelligent life I'm talking about.
snex pretty much covered it anyway.
 

BRoomer
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The chances are Exceptionally slim, (as pointed out by snex) but it is possible.

As for crop circles Bowser87 pretty much gave it to you, if you guys want I can go find a link to site explaining how to do it with both instructions and video's. it isn't as hard as people make it out to be...
 

Super Akuma

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Heh

snex

if you took dadepsak's advice and read my original two posts, youd see that the number of dice and sides we are talking about in this situation are not as drastic as you think.
So you're saying there are very few variables essential for life. Of course, for certain known forms of life like bacteria this is true, but there aren't any known multi-cellular organisms capable of living in the more universally common extreme conditions.

Bowser87

Regarding crop circles, yes, they all are. What other explanation do you have? As for abductions and all the rest, besides, hoaxes, explanations could be: retardedness, drugs, etc.
You're taking talking points from the mouths of the stubborn scientific elite. The crop circles aren't all hoaxes. People just though it was a hoax because some Brits said it was and it was far easier for people to believe because it upset no commonly-held beliefs. While some have been blamed on tornadoes only one theory actually explains the issue properly. It's not aliens, but they aren't all made by hoaxers, though the majority are. There's a story from a few hundred years ago involving a crop circle. The story gave a description and picture just like a crop circle and described odd lights the night it was made. Clearly they aren't all hoaxes.

The scientific elite can't explain these things so they simply attack the people making the claims. Your explanations for abductions are also flawed. Known abductiojn scenarios have existed for centuries so drugs are clearly not involved, plus many abduction accounts are given under hypnosis so it's unlikely to be a hoax evry time, and people who have abduction experiences are often very sane people.

I'll give you my explanation eventually.

It was a hoax the first time, and then more people started doing it. There's no other explanation to this. Nothing else than humans created crop circles.
The Brits claiming to have started the hoax were inspired by other less elaborate circles. The more complicated designs are definitely all human, but not all crop circles are.

<3

As for crop circles Bowser87 pretty much gave it to you, if you guys want I can go find a link to site explaining how to do it with both instructions and video's. it isn't as hard as people make it out to be...
I know of the hoaxers, but not all crop circles are manmade. Radiation has been detected at some sites and no clear sign of entry is found. Plus, crop circles often give men a "viagra effect" that gives them an erection upon entering a site.

Could this have been hoaxers?

The earliest known crop circle, known as the "Mowing Devil," is shown on this woodcut from Hertfordshire, England, 1678. The inscription on the woodcut is as follows:



Being a True Relation of a Farmer, who Bargaining with a Poor Mower, about the Cutting down Three Half Acres of Oats: upon the Mower's asking too much, the Farmer swore That the Devil should Mow it rather than He. And so it fell out, that very Night, the Crop of Oat shew'd as if it had been all of a flame: but next Morning appear'd so neatly mow'd by the Devil or some Infernal Spirit, that no Mortal Man was able to do the like. Also, How the said Oats ly now in the Field, and the Owner has not Power to fetch them away.
Source: Rense.com

I bet some Brit did this one too. :rolleyes:
 

snex

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So you're saying there are very few variables essential for life. Of course, for certain known forms of life like bacteria this is true, but there aren't any known multi-cellular organisms capable of living in the more universally common extreme conditions.
no, im saying that there are virtually infinite stars where such variables could be fulfilled.

The scientific elite can't explain these things so they simply attack the people making the claims. Your explanations for abductions are also flawed. Known abductiojn scenarios have existed for centuries so drugs are clearly not involved, plus many abduction accounts are given under hypnosis so it's unlikely to be a hoax evry time, and people who have abduction experiences are often very sane people.
abduction stories can be explained by Aware Sleep Paralysis, a common sleep condition that psychics and other pseudoscientists love to take advantage of.

I bet some Brit did this one too.
thats where id put my money. if its doable by humans, why assume it was anything else?
 

77Seven_Stars77

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With all the people posting here, I'm surprised that no one has yet to mention Fermi's Paradox.

NOTE: Fermi's Paradox covers the possibility of intelligent life existing in the Milky Way Galaxy.

Fermi's Paradox Link

This website contains everything required to know about Fermi's Paradox, including some arguments (or rather solutions) against it. But for those who are too lazy to click on a link and read it, I'll try to sum it up in a nutshell.

The Formula

Through some inventive thinking and a few complex calculations, Fermi came up with a paradox confronting those who believe that someone is out there listening to us. Fermi realized this:

1) Given the theoretical age of the universe (let's just assume ~15 billion years) AND

2) Given the theoretical age of the Earth (~4.6 billion years) AND

3) Given the probability in the "Drake Equation" combined with the probability of intelligent life developing into an affluent civilization AND

4) Given the fact that it takes, using sub-light propulsion (the least effective from of space travel -- or, in other words, in the worst possible case), 50 million years to conquer the galaxy, STARTING from one end of the galaxy to the other,

Fermi concluded that there should be 200 million advanced civilizations that should exist if they were all to form at the same time. Or, between 50 thousand and one million advanced civilizations currently existence in the Milky Way today. Even if these civilizations didn't all co-exist at once, the number is still staggering. According to the given probabilities of the Drake equation and the given probability of advanced civilizations forming, every 70 years an advanced civilization is born.

So that means...

Earth SHOULD have been colonized by now. The probability of life, and of intelligent life is near certain in our galaxy if we use our current knowledge of the Milky Way. At the rate of civilizations popping up, it seems highly unlikely that there not be a single race out there more intelligent than us.

Now you might say, well, it takes an incredibly long time to conquer the galaxy from end to end. Heck, that's 50 million years! However, 50 million years is like a few weeks comapred to how long the Earth has been around. Even if we eliminate the baby stages of Earth's life, living organisms still appeared about 3.8 billion years ago. Life on land appeared 400 million years ago. That's quite some time.

And that's assuming a race is using primitive technology. After a few thousand years have passed, alien technology could theoretically far surpass ours. Fusion technology, hydrogen propulsion, antimatter combustion -- whatever. It sounds preposterous to us, but then other races have been around far longer than we have. In the last decade, our technology has nearly doubled in advancements. Give it a few thousand more years, and you may find yourself zipping through the Solar System at expotential speeds.

Taking all of this into consideration, why haven't we heard anything yet? Where are these so called aliens who dorm with us in the Milky Way? Even if we haven't seen them yet, why hasn't something like the Hubble detected anything? A blip here? A radio signal there? Alas, nothing. Dead silence.

Okay. Well, what about...

.....The fact that sustaining life on a spaceship is difficult!
For humans. We have no idea what the life expectancy of an alien is. The Giant Tortoise has lived into an age of 177 years. If humanoid tortoises existed, you can bet dollars to doughnuts that they'd live a long time.

But then there's the problem of oxygen, food stores, and general boredom. Okay, scratch manned travel. How about AI?

von Neumann Colonization

Essentially, von Neumann probes are self-replicating probes that are born out from the mother vessel (by using raw materials found in space), continually multiplying. Imagine a bacteria replicating. First it splits from one to two, then two to four, four to eight, and so on. All the while, these von Neumann probes would retain their originally programmed AI and set out on their courses. Even if a few of them happen to die out, these probes would construct themselves at such a rate that common logic would dictate that we should've seen a few by now. Or at least detected their presence. Well, we haven't.

.....Maybe the aliens are observing us from afar!
This isn't Star Trek, so you could drop all of that right now. Even if there were an expansionist civilization out there that was peaceful, the odds are there are also a few that are aggressive and imperialistic in nature. And why wouldn't they be? Our planet could look mighty tasty to the right race. Humans could be used for slave labor. Our planet could be a stepping stone to another planet. Even if there WAS an alien race attempting to protect us yet not allow us to have knowledge of them, it wouldn't take much to detect them. A simple ET sighting and the cover is blown. Might be a little hard to stay undercover, especially when at war.

.....What if the civilizations destroyed themselves?
There are all sorts of reasons that species could destroy themselves. Heck, were looking at one right now. Pollution, Galactic war, Asteroids, Gammy Ray Bursts, Black Holes, Supernovas, Lack of resources, e.t.c. However, is this very likely for EVERY form of life in our galaxy to die out like this? Wouldn't there be remains? Some sort of residue? Even one race that could launch ONE von Neumann probe could easily be discovered, even after they've been wiped out. Why haven't we found such a thing?

.....We are the aliens!
A possibility, but there would have to be some sort of evidence of such a thing. Genetic tampering, artifcats, left over debris from colonizing vessels, e.t.c. Someone would have to cover their tracks VERY well to accomplish such a task. And let's put all the "Mission to Mars" and "Prime Directive" theories to sleep. With all the civilizations that there SHOULD be, for some reason we haven't detected one iota of their existence.

Conclusion: All assumptions of things like widespread galactic disaster, or cloaking spaceships aside, the final conclusion is this: We are alone in this galaxy as far as intelligent life is concerned. Otherwise, where is it? Other galaxies? Possibly. But intergalactic travel is pretty far fetched. So you can keep your fingers crossed about a UFO landing in your backyard, but I'm sure as **** not holding my breath.
 

snex

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Other galaxies? Possibly. But intergalactic travel is pretty far fetched. So you can keep your fingers crossed about a UFO landing in your backyard, but I'm sure as **** not holding my breath.
the question of the topic is, in fact, in regards to the whole universe, not just the galaxy.

as for the fermi paradox you presented, it does not take into account the possibility that we are the ones in the lead (i.e. the most technologically advanced to date). of course, you also have to take into account that when probing the other stars in our galaxy, we do not get information that is being sent now, but information that was being sent x years ago (where x is the stars distance in light years from us). there are very few stars within 100 light years of us (100 years ago is an approximation of when we started using radio communication), so if the aliens communicating with us are on a star on the other end of the galaxy, we wont know about it until our sun is a red giant that has destroyed the earth anyway.

overall, the "fermi paradox" doesnt take the whole picture into account.

however, im still not holding my breath either. just looking at the matter realistically.
 

Super Akuma

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Heh

snex

no, im saying that there are virtually infinite stars where such variables could be fulfilled.
Of course, that just means there's a good chance of life, not highly advanced civillizations.

abduction stories can be explained by Aware Sleep Paralysis, a common sleep condition that psychics and other pseudoscientists love to take advantage of.
Yeah that totally explains, not all of them. That explains the stuff in sleep, but not all situations as many occur while a person is completely awake.

thats where id put my money. if its doable by humans, why assume it was anything else?
I was figuring you'd say it was also a hoax, but then how come it wasn't as common? Plus, there was no description indicating human involvement and it clearly a vortex as some crop circles can be explained with.

Bumble Bee Tuna

Read it. Pretty please with sugar on top.
I don't care how often you put it up, I'm not reading it, even if I had money to buy it or even if it was at my local library. He basically said UFOs were little more than religion, probably leaning towards it being a completely human construct. Sad to say, science shows us quite clearly how this isn't likely.

At any rate, I've shown that crop circles weren't something just in the 70s and since the argument against it was that no were around before that shows it clearly must not all be a hoax. The Mowing Devil story also shows that these were clearly not created by either man or tornado.
 

Bowser87

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In addition, planets that form within what is called the "inner system" and more specifically the "temperate" zone, will not be gas giants
I haven't read through all of Fermi's Paradox, but this sentence alone may prove that the whole Paradox doesn't make sense anymore. Gas planets can orbit close to their stars, in fact, all extrasolar planets discovered to this date orbit around their star from a range between the distance of Jupiter and the Sun. Some of theses gas giants's distance to their star is even 5% that between Mercury and the Sun.


At any rate, I've shown that crop circles weren't something just in the 70s and since the argument against it was that no were around before that shows it clearly must not all be a hoax. The Mowing Devil story also shows that these were clearly not created by either man or tornado.
What do you suggest was it that created the crop circle, then?
 

Super Akuma

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Heh

Anyway, props to Symph for making a thread that's not only funny but can't possibly turn into another China topic.
Plasma.

After several seconds the beam then "dissipated into hill-hugging fog leaving scattered, pulsing light discharges within the fog ". In 1988 a similar "light beam" and spectacular light display were witnessed by Mary Freeman, a Wiltshire, England resident, as she left the Avebury stone circle just after 11 pm on July 13. She reportedly had observed a "large golden disc" that then projected a "bright white, parallel beam of light" at a "65 degree angle...across the sky towards Silbury Hill..." (Ref. 5). At the same time objects reportedly flew off her car's dashboard, as if a rush of invisible energy had swept past. The next night five circles, forming a large Celtic Cross, appeared in the field adjacent to Silbury Hill, where the light display has been seen the previous night.

Ed's 1992 light beam sighting was strikingly similar to Mary Freeman's, and to others witnessed over the years in the same area of England, which is well reputed to be traversed with highly active lines of subtle Earth energy, locally known as "ley-lines", but are understood by many including dowsers and geomancers, to encompass the entire Earth in their web of subtle energy. This ley-line energy is known to some researchers to be associated with non-manmade Crop Circle events, and also to the luminous phenomena associated with them, and is not limited to English Crop Circle events. Another stunning, and very recent sighting of apparently the same type of brilliant beam of light was one witnessed in direct relation to a Crop Circle discovery, and occurred in the Netherlands in August 2001(Fig. 3). It was witnessed by Dutch resident Robbert van de Broekke, and American Crop Circle researcher Nancy Talbott who published a report of their sighting (Ref. 6)(as featured on the Jeff Rense website).

To my astonishment I found this remarkable photograph (Fig 4) while researching the possible physics responsible for non-manmade Crop Circles and luminous phenomena, associated with them. Taken in the Belokurikha massif area of Russia, it is of a phenomenon that bears an absolutely striking similarity to the reported light beam sightings witnessed in areas of Wiltshire, England, and in apparent relation to Crop Circle events. This photographed column of light, named "The Belokurikha Flame"
by authors of the scientific paper containing the photo, and described by anonymous witnesses, who said "the flame grew up from the Earth, then rolled itself into a bright ball, and rapidly flew up and disappeared in the sky". (!!) (Ref. 7) This description probably sounds very familiar to anyone who has studied the subject of Crop Circles, and has heard some of the accounts of the luminosities that can be witnessed in association with them. This additional, and equally extraordinary image, captured over the Belukha summits of the Katun Mountain ridge in Russia, shows large anomalous “light forms†appearing above it (Fig. 5) which have also been categorized in the same research paper as a “vacuum domain†phenomenon (Ref. 7). These are remarkably similar to those that Ed sees nearly every day, and that I have also witnessed myself appearing above surrounding mountains, while driving through the Southern California desert. The many sightings of "balls of light", "Earth Lights", "plasmas", "beams of light", "UFOs", and some of their effects, may now just possibly begin to be explained, at least in part, by impressive new scientific research, and certain evidence of newly explored principles of Planetary Physics, that I feel may help account for, and support the reality of, the luminous phenomena being seen and reported around the world, and might help explain one of the Co-Creative forces involved in non-manmade Crop Circle formation.
Source: Crop Circle Answers.com

It's a phenomen truly answering hundreds of questions and yet the scientific establishment is too stubborn to look into it.
 

ShadowFalco

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Honestly i dont know if we are alone.....i think we cant be....it would b kinda pointless to have only one earth wit life....the thing i just dont get is where r the others? Its possible that there is others cuz in the Bible it says WE r created in His image. So i think we can b here with others.
 

McFox

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I would like to once again stress that this room is for intelligent debate only. The Bible doesn't belong in a topic about alien life. If you want to use it in religious debates, that's up to you, but try to keep it out of other topics, okay?
 

Bumble Bee Tuna

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Re: Heh

Originally posted by Emperor Bulblax

I don't care how often you put it up, I'm not reading it, even if I had money to buy it or even if it was at my local library. He basically said UFOs were little more than religion, probably leaning towards it being a completely human construct. Sad to say, science shows us quite clearly how this isn't likely.

At any rate, I've shown that crop circles weren't something just in the 70s and since the argument against it was that no were around before that shows it clearly must not all be a hoax. The Mowing Devil story also shows that these were clearly not created by either man or tornado.
I tell you to read the book because you desperately need critical thought. Look: you think that a single ancient uncorroborated news story means crop circles aren't hoaxes. But...couldn't that story be a hoax?

****, next you'll be telling me that the Weekly World News means that Bat-Boy truly exists.

Demon Haunted World does not claim that UFOs are a religion. It does provide a massive treasure trove of information in a very easy-to-read format on the history of UFO sightings, the much more likely alternate explanations, and how to think critically to figure out the truth.

Are you so afraid of critical thought that you will flat-out refuse to read the book ? Sounds fairly close-minded. Your beliefs must stand on a pretty shaky foundation, bud.

-B
 

XDaDePsak

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"A simple ET sighting and the cover is blown"

Not really. There's supposedly thousands of those. People would blow these people off as weirdos.
 

Super Akuma

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Joined
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Messages
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Heh

I tell you to read the book because you desperately need critical thought. Look: you think that a single ancient uncorroborated news story means crop circles aren't hoaxes. But...couldn't that story be a hoax?
Maybe life is a hoax. :rolleyes: I pointed that out, but it's only one of the many accounts of crop circles before those two Brits. Heck, they were inspired by crop circles. Read that source I gave, I'm not talking about aliens. The only reason crop circle accounts, U.F.O. sightings and the like have become more common is planes. Planes meant many were seeing things they could only see from the sky, like crop circles, were more likely to run into U.F.O.s, and there were more thing to confuse with real U.F.O.s.

U.F.O.s are real, little gray or green men piloting them aren't, except for clown *******.

It does provide a massive treasure trove of information in a very easy-to-read format on the history of UFO sightings, the much more likely alternate explanations, and how to think critically to figure out the truth.
Does any of this involve plasmas?

Are you so afraid of critical thought that you will flat-out refuse to read the book ? Sounds fairly close-minded. Your beliefs must stand on a pretty shaky foundation, bud.
Nope. Pretty solid. I just don't read books often, let alone a book that probably has predictable material. I especially don't read books that strangers tell me over the Internet I "need." I'm capable of critical thinking and I'm also very questionable to what is perceived as "truth."

I'm not close-minded, you are.
 
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