Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[1PokeMastr]

kel it's stutter step back

fthrow fthrow usmash if you're throwing him starting from the edge of the stage and into the middle. this does 4+3+20 and setups up juggle

Yeah, or you can D-Throw -> Tipper him from 0.
But! F-Throw x2 -> Usmash does 29% when everything hits.
So it's much much better, ahah.

 

[infiniteV115]

Can't you SDI to avoid the later hits of usmash, making it worse?

 

[Jeos]

if you SDI the first hit, you get behind marth, if fully horizontal you'll fall to the ground giving marth the time to chase you or reset to neutral, if diagonally you get into a bad position to get juggled, set up whatever you want or reset to neutral.

if you think you can SDI in front of marth, then the knockback will put the tip of the sword right up your ***

whatever the case, is an all win scene where you're just free damage...

...if you're able to get a grab though

 

[infiniteV115]

SDI fully horizontal and reset to neutral, and then you've taken less damage than dthrow --> tipper from 0, correct?

 

[clowsui]

dthrow tipper from 0 doesn't always work

 

[zzzzzzzzzz]

i recently started playing marth. i have some really noob problems vs fox that i know should be easy to deal with. i cant get fox to stop doing dash attack to Utilt, because when i sheld dash attack i dont punish consistently because from i certain range i do DB and he ends up behind me. i am used to using moves like sheik dsmash to deal with situation like this. those utilt combos after are just ridiculous. whats the best way to deal with this situation?

 

[Ken Neth]

Shield grab the dash attack

 

[zzzzzzzzzz]

sometimes he ends up just behind me.

 

[Foodies]

Grab before he gets past you. Alternatively, you can reverse DS out of shield after he goes past you (especially if you know he'll go for the utilts after the dash attack).

In what situations is it good to DI down and away? Specifics would be helpful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I got a question.

Should I get back into this game again?

 

[Reizilla]

Do it. Replace the Trela the rat.

 

[clowsui]

considering MK banned tournaments have started popping up around your area and will stay, yes

 

[Zano]

Don't do it, if you somehow made it out, you don't wanna come back in

 

[Shaya]

My Lord hath returned? Bring fourth the sacrifices.

 

[-LzR-]

Why is Marth considered an extremely hard character to master? I haven't been really able to understand this. Yes this is a serious question.

 

[smashkng]

Because Marth requires precise spacing and understanding really well his options. Marth also played either aggressively or very patiently and it's very important to know when to switch between those playstyle in midmatch. That's pretty hard and overagressiveness in the wrong time has cost even top Marths (especially Leon) many matches.

 

[Shaya]

Marth's hard to use because his best moves in all the common situations are aerials and unfortunately he has to both jump and land.
****.

 

[-LzR-]

But sideB :s

 

[Zano]

which is super punishable

 

[-LzR-]

On shield yeah. Other than that I haven't been able to punish it. That leads me to another question. When Marth starts to mixup with DB1 into grab on shield or pauses between hits or simply cancels the whole thing. Can I just simply always shieldgrab the first hit if I react fast enough so he can't do those nasty mixups?

 

[1PokeMastr]

I got a question.

Should I get back into this game again?

HOLY CRAP.

Yes.

And LzR you can grab DB1 if you react fast enough, even if they try to transition into DB2.
I got tired of the DB1 mixups and my shield and just started grabbing it.

 

[-LzR-]

Wow that is amazing! I've always been pissed as the moves only significant downfall is it's unsafeness on shield, but the mixups really got me messed up. Now then, if you are outside of your shieldgrab range should you just like try to shield the whole thing or like roll away or something? I play ICs are lot and they shouldn't be able to shieldgrab is much. Or does Marth extend his hand far enough to make it grabbable even when well spaced?

 

[Lord Chair]

it has super minor shield pushback and his hand extends a lot, you just have to learn when you can grab in between and when you cant

though if marth is DBing IC's shield he deserves to lose and die in some hellhole, so thats fine

 

[-LzR-]

That's what I've been thinking too. I always tell Marths to not use sideB against ICs but they do it anyways since I'm afraid to punish it because of the surprise upBs and ****. Time to get better again put some Marths into some hellholes.

 

[etecoon]

I got a question.

Should I get back into this game again?

this is brawl

nothing good happens here

 

[1PokeMastr]

That's what I've been thinking too. I always tell Marths to not use sideB against ICs but they do it anyways since I'm afraid to punish it because of the surprise upBs and ****. Time to get better again put some Marths into some hellholes.

I know this is ******** and will never ever happen in competitive play since you can't react to it, and should never actually try this.

But you can grab Marth out of Dolphin Slash ( The strong hit ) with the grab armour if you time it right.

 

[Shaya]

side-b is okay against ICs.

 

[-LzR-]

I know this is ******** and will never ever happen in competitive play since you can't react to it, and should never actually try this.

But you can grab Marth out of Dolphin Slash ( The strong hit ) with the grab armour if you time it right.

Now that's something I didn't know. Glad I can just shield it anyways to get a free grab.

 

[C.J.]

Oh hey, I'm back.

Can't you SDI to avoid the later hits of usmash, making it worse?

If you mean the foot hitbox that drags you into the sword, nope. Someone from the smashlab said that it has a SDI multiplier of 0.

i recently started playing marth. i have some really noob problems vs fox that i know should be easy to deal with. i cant get fox to stop doing dash attack to Utilt, because when i sheld dash attack i dont punish consistently because from i certain range i do DB and he ends up behind me. i am used to using moves like sheik dsmash to deal with situation like this. those utilt combos after are just ridiculous. whats the best way to deal with this situation?

Turn around DS OoS, shield the utilt and punish, retreating bair(sh)/dair(fh) OoS

In what situations is it good to DI down and away? Specifics would be helpful.

If you're being hit offstage, never. Other than that, when they're not expecting you to so you can get out of strings.

I got a question.

Should I get back into this game again?

Yes please.

Why is Marth considered an extremely hard character to master? I haven't been really able to understand this. Yes this is a serious question.

Because he requires perfect consistency and doesn't have a "fallback" option. IC have grab, Falco has jab/laser/side B, Snake has his weight, DDD has CG to gimp, MK... well MK. Diddy has bananas, Olimar has neutral B, side B, downB, and usmash, etc.

Marth has range. Marth also has to jump =(
VVVV

Marth's hard to use because his best moves in all the common situations are aerials and unfortunately he has to both jump and land.
****.

On shield yeah. Other than that I haven't been able to punish it. That leads me to another question. When Marth starts to mixup with DB1 into grab on shield or pauses between hits or simply cancels the whole thing. Can I just simply always shieldgrab the first hit if I react fast enough so he can't do those nasty mixups?

If you can react that quickly, consistently, you deserve to have a parade thrown for you. But yes, you can always grab all 4 hits of DB (assuming poorly spaced). The easiest time to punish DB OoS, other than after the fourth hit, is between 3 and 4. You can also always roll behind him or away on shield to try to reset I guess.

it has super minor shield pushback and his hand extends a lot, you just have to learn when you can grab in between and when you cant

though if marth is DBing IC's shield he deserves to lose and die in some hellhole, so thats fine

Tbh, the only time I like DBing IC is when Nana is running back to Popo, and then into the attack (I'll take the fsmash or w/e for an easier time separating them next hit- assuming it wouldn't kill me) or when they're close the the ledge and DB will push them off.

 

[Kel]

What's the best way to deal with a MK that is staying grounded? IE; what's the best way to deal with the MK MU from neutral positions? I want him to jump so I can outrange him, but if he nados when I'm airborne, I will get juggled.

What kind of footsies/ mixups should I do/ expect from playing a MK?

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks CJ. My reaction time is really bad though

 

[C.J.]

What's the best way to deal with a MK that is staying grounded? IE; what's the best way to deal with the MK MU from neutral positions? I want him to jump so I can outrange him, but if he nados when I'm airborne, I will get juggled.

What kind of footsies/ mixups should I do/ expect from playing a MK?

The number one most important thing is to ALWAYS be expecting nado imo. I'm not going to rewrite a huge paper on the 3 kinds of reaction time (base, expecting, unexpected), but if you're expecting nado you'll be able to more consistently downB it in time.

Walking is gdlk vs MK at neutral. It creates pressure just like DDing in Melee does.. just slower.

Retreating pivot grab/pivot grab in place beats MK's dash options cleanly so be prepared to be able to react to his dash.

Second to nado, the second really easy way MK can shut down Marth's aerial approaches is with SL (beats fair and stuff). If you're expecting this, take a page out of Falco's book- SHFF AD beats SL and lets you get uair/usmash as a punish on SL (or grab or w/e I suppose as well).

There's really no reliable way to make the MK jump since ftilt and SL are so good. So walking, like I mentioned above, is going to be important in order to bait out SOMETHING from him. Ftilt and dtilt being two likely common choices, other than dash options. If the ftilt isn't spaced very well, you can usually DS it (unless it's terribly spaced... then you just grab). Dtilt is harder since it's so fast and not as laggy as ftilt.

A little bit of randomness is obviously okay as well. A random dash shield/grab/spotdodge, done well, can get you a free grab as well for GR stuff, low % combos, or set-ups for strings.

Zone with FF fair and slowfall, weaving nair as always.

Thanks CJ. My reaction time is really bad though

Lol, I know the feeling.
(Raz, Clow, Ramin)

 

[clowsui]

CJ can't react to Ike forward smash

 

[C.J.]

DK fsmash*

 

[Kel]

Is there a way to actually punish MK's ftilt? I didn't think so. Same with Dtilt.

Also, is there a reliable way to punish a blocked grounded SL? I try to up smash, but they just go over. If I try to uair they just glide attack.

 

[C.J.]

If you act immediately, usmash should be basically guaranteed unless they're positive it's coming in which case you need to uair.

If they act to avoid usmash (glide up), they'll be tilted upwards so glair won't clash w/ uair.

If you uair him from below/behind him glair won't cover his full body so you can still hit him.

Bair works to hit from below/behind really well too.

If you can do it though, my FAVORITE option vs glide is nair. First hit of nair clashes w/ glair and the second hit hits MK. If they don't glair, then they just get hit by both hits.

 

[Dogg/Naoki/Suzaku]

When is it a good time to use bthrow > dthrow?

 

[C.J.]

I guess when dthrow is completely stale?

Yeah, pretty much never. Dthrow sends at almost an identical angle, does more damage, and has less lag than bthrow.

 

[-LzR-]

DK fsmash*

Me neither

 

[1PokeMastr]

Me neither

Guess I better use my Dk if we ever play.